Author Topic: Maggette is Available  (Read 12631 times)

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Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2009, 07:54:57 AM »

Offline cordobes

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No, just say no to Bad **** and his toxic contract, one of the worst in the entire league.

edit: why is Maggette's nickname censored?  :-\ It's "Bad Por-n".
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 09:05:56 AM by cordobes »

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2009, 08:25:00 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I don't think the C's have any interest in Maggette for that type of money.  They wanted him on a 1 year MLE deal.  If they wanted to take on that kind of salary, they would have resigned Posey.


But that was then. This is now. Ainge and Wyc assumed that Eddie & Tony in our backcourt would not surrender leads and blow games like they've been doing of late. We're pretty desperate for any quality bench addition we can get. Frankly, if Maggette can be had that easy, finances aside, you do it. We're only going to be in contending shape for so long... KG, Allen, and Pierce aren't the youngest cats around.

I disagree, we know Danny is a huge Maggette fan and always has been. I think Danny would see Maggette as the long term Ray Allen replacement after this year.

For the next two years maggette can be a 6th man. I would love to see this happen.

Maggette is paid at the level that a 20 ppg scorer should be paid


He will not be a 20 point scorer for the Celtics.  Closer to the 10-14 point range as a bench player.


I think he is being paid to much for what the Celtics need. 


I also think there will be no rush of team looking to trade for him.  Therefor the Celtics have time to see if anyone else becomes available.

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2009, 09:38:15 AM »

Offline TrueGreen

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I don't think the C's have any interest in Maggette for that type of money.  They wanted him on a 1 year MLE deal.  If they wanted to take on that kind of salary, they would have resigned Posey.


But that was then. This is now. Ainge and Wyc assumed that Eddie & Tony in our backcourt would not surrender leads and blow games like they've been doing of late. We're pretty desperate for any quality bench addition we can get. Frankly, if Maggette can be had that easy, finances aside, you do it. We're only going to be in contending shape for so long... KG, Allen, and Pierce aren't the youngest cats around.

I disagree, we know Danny is a huge Maggette fan and always has been. I think Danny would see Maggette as the long term Ray Allen replacement after this year.

For the next two years maggette can be a 6th man. I would love to see this happen.

Maggette is paid at the level that a 20 ppg scorer should be paid
Magette is no Ray Allen replacement. Ray Allen is a future Hall Of Famer, Magette is not. And forget about age. Ray Allen is physically younger than his years.

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2009, 10:09:22 AM »

Offline winsomme

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First, we totally disagree about one fundamental point: This team is not better than last year's team, and the primary reason is a bench that is missing a multitude of skills fundamental to a champion - length, outside shooting and most critically, a competent backup 5.

People tend to let wins - several of them difficult over second-rate teams - delude them into a false sense of security that a badly flawed bench simply will not support in playoff crunch time. I've been clear about this on this board: This team as currently constructed will not repeat, and will not win the Eastern Conference championship.

And further, we are one Kendrick Perkins significant injury away from cratering.

It makes no sense whatsoever to me to make the Garnett and Ray Allen deals if a worry about 2011 and beyond trumps your desire to win multiple titles. It makes more sense to keep Jefferson and continue maneuvering to acquire talent, so I think you're giving Ainge and Wyc more credit than they deserve.

They went all in in the summer of 2007 to win a title, and it worked. Good for them. That investment, though, makes no sense to me at all unless you're committed to thoroughly utilizing the window of the Pierce-Garnett-Allen careers to make serious title runs.

Paul Pierce is on the record as saying the Boston Celtics are about multiple titles. Close doesn't count. Today, I'm quite uncertain that his GM and owner share that sentiment.

Danny laid an egg this summer, and I suspect it was driven by budgets and ego rather than some grand master plan.

i don't think DA had a grand master plan. I think he was trying to thread the needle with Posey. he wanted to offer him just enough to keep him but not so much that it would affect future flexibility.

i never understood the concern over the fourth year, but that said, i think DA also knew once he lost out on Posey there was a hole in our bench.

so i don't think he had a grand master plan, but i do think he had contingencies...and one of those is targeting players that become available during the season...

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2009, 11:32:09 AM »

Offline Chris

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No, just say no to Bad **** and his toxic contract, one of the worst in the entire league.

edit: why is Maggette's nickname censored?  :-\ It's "Bad Por-n".

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Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2009, 11:43:25 AM »

Offline elcotte

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Well, that leads me to wonder what the goal is, then?

Is it pinching Wyc's pennies?

Or is it winning another banner?

Personally, when I look at Danny's body of work, I see a lot more of last summer in his pre-2007 work than I do any of the signs of gratuitous genius that he's apparently been rewarded with for tapping into the Seattle and Minny fire sales in 2007.

It seems a little brazen, frankly, to assume that you can pry the appropriate pieces out of the market every February. I don't know if Grousbeck shifted back into penny-pinching mode here or if this is Danny's belief that he's smarter than every other GM at work.

Whichever, they're gambling a year in a very short Pierce-Garnett-Allen window. And they didn't need to.


It always amazes me how fast some people are to spend other people's money. Are you overpaying for your Celtics tickets? If not, why not?
One other point....DA has a championship to his credit.

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2009, 12:43:53 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Well, that leads me to wonder what the goal is, then?

Is it pinching Wyc's pennies?

Or is it winning another banner?

Personally, when I look at Danny's body of work, I see a lot more of last summer in his pre-2007 work than I do any of the signs of gratuitous genius that he's apparently been rewarded with for tapping into the Seattle and Minny fire sales in 2007.

It seems a little brazen, frankly, to assume that you can pry the appropriate pieces out of the market every February. I don't know if Grousbeck shifted back into penny-pinching mode here or if this is Danny's belief that he's smarter than every other GM at work.

Whichever, they're gambling a year in a very short Pierce-Garnett-Allen window. And they didn't need to.


It always amazes me how fast some people are to spend other people's money. Are you overpaying for your Celtics tickets? If not, why not?
One other point....DA has a championship to his credit.

I agree.  It's hard for me to say management is pinching pennies when they have the 5th highest payroll at about 80 million and about 10 million over the luxury tax.  I would have loved to have Posey back but I won't go there as we don't know exactly what budget constraints Danny is under.  For all we know maybe this offseason they are looking to spend the full MLE as KG's contract dips from 24.75 to 16.4 million.

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2009, 04:25:58 PM »

Offline BballTim

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First, we totally disagree about one fundamental point: This team is not better than last year's team, and the primary reason is a bench that is missing a multitude of skills fundamental to a champion - length, outside shooting and most critically, a competent backup 5.

People tend to let wins - several of them difficult over second-rate teams - delude them into a false sense of security that a badly flawed bench simply will not support in playoff crunch time. I've been clear about this on this board: This team as currently constructed will not repeat, and will not win the Eastern Conference championship.

And further, we are one Kendrick Perkins significant injury away from cratering.

  This team is no worse than last year's team. The reason is that they've played together in tough games, Perk's shown improvement and Rondo is much better. You were pretty confident this summer that we'd win a lot fewer games than we're on pace to win and that we'd need to wear the starters out by playing them big minutes to do anywhere near what we're doing, so I'll take your proclamations with a grain of salt. And we've always been a significant Perk injury from cratering. Do you think we'd have won the title starting PJ and just bringing in Davis off the bench?

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2009, 04:43:35 PM »

Offline cordobes

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No, just say no to Bad **** and his toxic contract, one of the worst in the entire league.

edit: why is Maggette's nickname censored?  :-\ It's "Bad Por-n".

Spam filter

Yeah, I figured it out; it was more of a rhetoric question.

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2009, 11:31:15 PM »

Offline billysan

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Instead of Maggette, why not Damian Wilkens? He is a lot cheaper and probably the better teammate. 8)
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Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2009, 11:33:51 PM »

Offline Chris

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Instead of Maggette, why not Damian Wilkens? He is a lot cheaper and probably the better teammate. 8)

I have always liked the idea of Wilkins, but from what I hear (I haven't watched too much of the Thunder this year) he has been pretty terrible. 

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2009, 12:56:14 AM »

Offline Toine43

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First, we totally disagree about one fundamental point: This team is not better than last year's team, and the primary reason is a bench that is missing a multitude of skills fundamental to a champion - length, outside shooting and most critically, a competent backup 5.

People tend to let wins - several of them difficult over second-rate teams - delude them into a false sense of security that a badly flawed bench simply will not support in playoff crunch time. I've been clear about this on this board: This team as currently constructed will not repeat, and will not win the Eastern Conference championship.

And further, we are one Kendrick Perkins significant injury away from cratering.

It makes no sense whatsoever to me to make the Garnett and Ray Allen deals if a worry about 2011 and beyond trumps your desire to win multiple titles. It makes more sense to keep Jefferson and continue maneuvering to acquire talent, so I think you're giving Ainge and Wyc more credit than they deserve.

They went all in in the summer of 2007 to win a title, and it worked. Good for them. That investment, though, makes no sense to me at all unless you're committed to thoroughly utilizing the window of the Pierce-Garnett-Allen careers to make serious title runs.

Paul Pierce is on the record as saying the Boston Celtics are about multiple titles. Close doesn't count. Today, I'm quite uncertain that his GM and owner share that sentiment.

Danny laid an egg this summer, and I suspect it was driven by budgets and ego rather than some grand master plan.

Believe me, part of me really wants to agree with you on this, because I certainly see where you are coming from.  But when it comes down to it, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this, and we can look at it again at the end of the season.  To be completely honest I just don't have much else I can add the argument at this point, because my side of the argument lies all in hypothetical future moves, and improvements by other players.
But I will say one thing, the way Ainge handled this past summer was the exact same way he handled things the last few years.  Basically, he has stuck with his philosophy of stashing his resources until the right opportunity comes along, rather than settling too early.  That is how he ended up with Ray and Garnett, as well as Posey.  That won us a championship last year.  Some call it luck, and yes, luck is involved, but as much as it was luck, it was being prepared for when the opportunity presented itself.

It doesn't always work, and I understand how it rubs people the wrong way, but I personally don't think it is any riskier in todays NBA than signing someone to a long term contract that you are not confident they will be able to fulfill.  All it takes is one untimely injury, and you lose your championship window, and are suddenly in a much worse position to be able to "reload".
Both sides of the argument are hypothetical. Actually, yours is less hypothetical than his. Coach Bo is blaming Danny and Wyc for an outcome that hasn't even occured yet. You have some pretty solid evidence on your side: an NBA title. What tactics did Danny use to put together last year's championship roster? The same ones that Coach Bo is faulting him for using this year. If the Celtics don't land any vets, and they exit the playoffs early via the Cavs, then I'll listen to what Coach Bo is saying. But it's still January, and we don't know yet what 12 men will make up the Celtics active postseason roster, and the Celtics are 29-5. So for now, Coach Bo needs to save the accusations of penny-pinching and inflated egos.

And a couple of more things about what Coach Bo is saying. Having a budget is a reality of a sports team. It's easy to get angry at filthy rich owners for "penny-pinching", but even they don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend. Also, maintaining flexibility for future years is important whether a team is a contender or not. As far as Danny goes, I don't get the big ego thing at all. He's doing what he thinks is best for the organization. If you think he's wrong, then say he's making the wrong decision. Your assumtion that a large part of what he's doing is based on a belief that he can outsmart everyone else is unfounded, and it sounds to me like you simply don't like the guy.


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Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2009, 01:16:57 AM »

Offline timepiece33

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I'd love to see Maggette in a Boston uniform for the right price.  Some how I seriously doubt that GS would take Davis, Allen, Scalabrine, and Giddens for him.  IMO, they would at minimum have to get Powe.

Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2009, 07:50:29 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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First, we totally disagree about one fundamental point: This team is not better than last year's team, and the primary reason is a bench that is missing a multitude of skills fundamental to a champion - length, outside shooting and most critically, a competent backup 5.

People tend to let wins - several of them difficult over second-rate teams - delude them into a false sense of security that a badly flawed bench simply will not support in playoff crunch time. I've been clear about this on this board: This team as currently constructed will not repeat, and will not win the Eastern Conference championship.

And further, we are one Kendrick Perkins significant injury away from cratering.

It makes no sense whatsoever to me to make the Garnett and Ray Allen deals if a worry about 2011 and beyond trumps your desire to win multiple titles. It makes more sense to keep Jefferson and continue maneuvering to acquire talent, so I think you're giving Ainge and Wyc more credit than they deserve.

They went all in in the summer of 2007 to win a title, and it worked. Good for them. That investment, though, makes no sense to me at all unless you're committed to thoroughly utilizing the window of the Pierce-Garnett-Allen careers to make serious title runs.

Paul Pierce is on the record as saying the Boston Celtics are about multiple titles. Close doesn't count. Today, I'm quite uncertain that his GM and owner share that sentiment.

Danny laid an egg this summer, and I suspect it was driven by budgets and ego rather than some grand master plan.

Believe me, part of me really wants to agree with you on this, because I certainly see where you are coming from.  But when it comes down to it, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this, and we can look at it again at the end of the season.  To be completely honest I just don't have much else I can add the argument at this point, because my side of the argument lies all in hypothetical future moves, and improvements by other players.
But I will say one thing, the way Ainge handled this past summer was the exact same way he handled things the last few years.  Basically, he has stuck with his philosophy of stashing his resources until the right opportunity comes along, rather than settling too early.  That is how he ended up with Ray and Garnett, as well as Posey.  That won us a championship last year.  Some call it luck, and yes, luck is involved, but as much as it was luck, it was being prepared for when the opportunity presented itself.

It doesn't always work, and I understand how it rubs people the wrong way, but I personally don't think it is any riskier in todays NBA than signing someone to a long term contract that you are not confident they will be able to fulfill.  All it takes is one untimely injury, and you lose your championship window, and are suddenly in a much worse position to be able to "reload".
Both sides of the argument are hypothetical. Actually, yours is less hypothetical than his. Coach Bo is blaming Danny and Wyc for an outcome that hasn't even occured yet. You have some pretty solid evidence on your side: an NBA title. What tactics did Danny use to put together last year's championship roster? The same ones that Coach Bo is faulting him for using this year. If the Celtics don't land any vets, and they exit the playoffs early via the Cavs, then I'll listen to what Coach Bo is saying. But it's still January, and we don't know yet what 12 men will make up the Celtics active postseason roster, and the Celtics are 29-5. So for now, Coach Bo needs to save the accusations of penny-pinching and inflated egos.

And a couple of more things about what Coach Bo is saying. Having a budget is a reality of a sports team. It's easy to get angry at filthy rich owners for "penny-pinching", but even they don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend. Also, maintaining flexibility for future years is important whether a team is a contender or not. As far as Danny goes, I don't get the big ego thing at all. He's doing what he thinks is best for the organization. If you think he's wrong, then say he's making the wrong decision. Your assumtion that a large part of what he's doing is based on a belief that he can outsmart everyone else is unfounded, and it sounds to me like you simply don't like the guy.

These owners spent a bunch of money to land Allen and Garnett, yet some on this board want to praise them for saying no to the NBA equivalent of chump change to resign a guy whose versatility they have not approximated replacing - despite the revisionist history on this board. My issue with Danny isn't the failure to resign Posey; it's the failure to even begin to replicate the skills he brought to this team in the others he resigned.

As for the trades themselves, one of this board's great canards is that Danny traded value for Garnett and Ray. I guess that validates - in some minds - the deep and abiding love that the Celtic youth movement was held in on this and other boards, despite its abysmal failure on the floor and the fact, thus far, that none of the players traded has a well-rounded NBA game. Al Jefferson still can't defend anyone on the block, for example. But again, where are the facts? Looks more to me like Danny was in the right place at the right time for two fire sales, because you won't find a soul in the NBA who thinks the Celtics got Garnett and Ray for more than 30 cents on the dollar.

The guy did a great job in the summer of 2007. He has not done an adequate job in other summers, including the last one. He isn't the God some of you want to make him out to be, and you need look no further than the shocking lack of due diligence done on O'Blount to see that there are other factors than a "grand master plan" at work here.

There's been a lot of hopeful rhetoric from management about adding players. Fine. You certainly need to, or someone named James or Howard will be leading their teams into the Finals.

I personally don't think this team healthy is deep enough to beat Cleveland or LA. But that's subject to debate. What isn't, however, is one inescapable fact: This roster today cannot survive an injury to a starter in the playoffs. And it will happen: Perkins' shoulder, Pierce's knee.

Talk is cheap. Cheaper than passing on Posey. I believe I'll wait until the talk turns into action before falling back into blind love with Celtics management.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 08:16:11 AM by CoachBo »
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Re: Maggette is Available
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2009, 07:57:09 AM »

Offline Celtics17

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In relation to the Posey debate, in any business decision you have to use a cost-benefit analysis. In Poseys case, is the 4th year worth what we might have gotten with Posey vs. what would we get without him? Posey on this years team makes us the favorite to win it all again. Without him, we may still be, but that has not been decided yet. Our depth is still a concern. So, is one more year of 4 million per year or whatever he is making worth a 50/50 shot of winning another title? It is if a title is worth 8 or 10 million to a team and I believe it is. And yes, I do think Posey is that important. Is he is as important as any of the starters, I dont think so. But, that isnt the question.