Jaylen Brown: All-Star ?? MIP??

[nickagneta]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Oh he has been hitting mid range for years, it's the maturity of now using his improved handles to create space to rise and hit those shots that's different that I was referencing. That double cross over, lean right dribble step left to leave his man grasping at shadows as Jaylen was hitting a 21 footer near the top of the key was ridiculous.

Also, after twice driving to the basket for mixed results in the first, he got the ball near side, guarded well on the three point line and went to drive, saw his man collapsing so just stopped and popped from 20 feet.

Those things and the sweet Dirk like turnaround jumper are the type of moves that a high level scorer needs on this level. If Jaylen continues with his improved finishing around the rim, keeps hitting threes in the 37-40%, can develop this type of all around mid range game and can get his FT rate up to about 80%, he could be a 25 PPG player for many years.

[Somebody]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Oh he has been hitting mid range for years, it's the maturity of now using his improved handles to create space to rise and hit those shots that's different that I was referencing. That double cross over, lean right dribble step left to leave his man grasping at shadows as Jaylen was hitting a 21 footer near the top of the key was ridiculous.

Also, after twice driving to the basket for mixed results in the first, he got the ball near side, guarded well on the three point line and went to drive, saw his man collapsing so just stopped and popped from 20 feet.

Those things and the sweet Dirk like turnaround jumper are the type of moves that a high level scorer needs on this level. If Jaylen continues with his improved finishing around the rim, keeps hitting threes in the 37-40%, can develop this type of all around mid range game and can get his FT rate up to about 80%, he could be a 25 PPG player for many years.

Oh yeah his handle has improved quite a bit, that between the legs snatch back on Butler was insane and that pullup was pretty sweet.

I absolutely agree with your final point, the development of resilient counters that can create high efficiency looks even on the toughest of defences are the ingredients needed for the best of playoff offensive superstars. I'm not sure where to peg Jaylen's offensive ceiling at, but it's looking really bright right now. If he manages to add a passing game his offensive impact will be massive in a few years.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

[Androslav]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

I agree with just about everything, I'd just state that Toronto was/is a contender and they have regularly developed players in that span.

[jambr380]

Doncic is exempt from becoming MIP for the simple reason that he is already ROY and was a very good player last Yr.

MIPs are for individuals who are possibly a passable to good player transitioning to near great stats and helping your team win ball games by taking over games... Doncic has already been doing that.
...

We've all been impressed by Doncic this year, but I generally agree. I don't think 2nd year players who were already excellent in their first season should be considered. It should already be assumed if you were that good of a rookie that you might be even better in your 2nd year. I've always thought the award should go to players who have been in the league for a little bit and then make an unexpected jump.

Now I don't know that Jaylen's jump has been 'unexpected' - his counting stats are all considerably better than last year, although his minutes are certainly up, too. His pedigree has always been that of a player who is expected to succeed so I am not sure he will necessarily be considered.

Devonte Graham was mentioned and, yes, he is only in his 2nd season, but I don't see how a 2nd round pick who averaged 5ppg last season would ever be expected to reach 19ppg in his next. I would think he has a much better chance the Jaylen based on the spirit of the award.

[Somebody]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

"Umm", I also disagree with your opinion. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he was in college, but he was a respectable 3 point shooter from day one. Stevens has never "given" him confidence and reps in the sense that he fed him minutes when he wasn't good enough to earn minutes to develop him, Brown earned every minute and rep he got under a very tight leash, and he definitely did not develop the skills he has now because of Brad (Stevens is a coach, not a trainer). You're just giving a lot of unwarranted credit to Brad while diminishing what Jaylen himself has done to improve his game.

Or would you rather Brad receive praise for every thing that's related to our players? Did Tatum grow an inch because Brad allowed him to exercise sufficiently by giving him significant playing time in his rookie season? Because he might be credited for that under your logic and reasoning.

Brown is far from perfect. So is Stevens, but the narrative that he has let a player like Brown grow by sticking him in the corner is "patently false". He's not a bad coach when it comes to developing young talent, but he has a tendency to stick promising young players into off-ball roles that don't develop their on-ball skills.

[manl_lui]

a few things stuck out to me about Brown this year

1. his foot work seems much improved
2. more confident in driving
3. not trying to do too much on the fast break , learned to slow down
4. I am loving his new found post moves / turn around jumper

[Sophomore]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

"Umm", I also disagree with your opinion. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he was in college, but he was a respectable 3 point shooter from day one. Stevens has never "given" him confidence and reps in the sense that he fed him minutes when he wasn't good enough to earn minutes to develop him, Brown earned every minute and rep he got under a very tight leash, and he definitely did not develop the skills he has now because of Brad (Stevens is a coach, not a trainer). You're just giving a lot of unwarranted credit to Brad while diminishing what Jaylen himself has done to improve his game.

Or would you rather Brad receive praise for every thing that's related to our players? Did Tatum grow an inch because Brad allowed him to exercise sufficiently by giving him significant playing time in his rookie season? Because he might be credited for that under your logic and reasoning.

Brown is far from perfect. So is Stevens, but the narrative that he has let a player like Brown grow by sticking him in the corner is "patently false". He's not a bad coach when it comes to developing young talent, but he has a tendency to stick promising young players into off-ball roles that don't develop their on-ball skills.

In his last six games, Brown is averaging almost 23 points per game on excellent efficiency. He's getting plenty of shots; 20 last night. Maybe he could be taking even more shots, or maybe he should be asked to be more of a primary creator, but it's hard to argue with the results. He's getting all-star buzz.

I don't give CBS all the credit, if that's the issue. Brown has shown a lot of maturity and ability to make lemonade out of lemons. He's really learning every aspect of the game. As his ballhandling continues coming along, watch out.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

"Umm", I also disagree with your opinion. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he was in college, but he was a respectable 3 point shooter from day one. Stevens has never "given" him confidence and reps in the sense that he fed him minutes when he wasn't good enough to earn minutes to develop him, Brown earned every minute and rep he got under a very tight leash, and he definitely did not develop the skills he has now because of Brad (Stevens is a coach, not a trainer). You're just giving a lot of unwarranted credit to Brad while diminishing what Jaylen himself has done to improve his game.

Or would you rather Brad receive praise for every thing that's related to our players? Did Tatum grow an inch because Brad allowed him to exercise sufficiently by giving him significant playing time in his rookie season? Because he might be credited for that under your logic and reasoning.

Brown is far from perfect. So is Stevens, but the narrative that he has let a player like Brown grow by sticking him in the corner is "patently false". He's not a bad coach when it comes to developing young talent, but he has a tendency to stick promising young players into off-ball roles that don't develop their on-ball skills.

Yikes. Hot-takey. Brown deserves a ton of credit too. I'm not taking anything from him. A lot of things have to go right to develop a player. The player has to work hard. The training staff has to keep him healthy. The coaches have to put them in positions to succeed. The trainers have to identify how to sure up weaknesses and maximize strengths. All of that has happened, resulting in Brown's success this year.

Brown didn't have consistency as a ball-handler or finisher to have the ball in his hands a lot in his first few years. Forcing him into that role might have resulted (and often does with players like his skill set) in a loss of confidence. Take Hezonja, Mudiay, Jabari Parker, Ben Mclemore, Stanley Johnson, Derrick Williams, and Tyreke Evans for example. You can identify issues with each player AND each organization that they were drafted into. It takes so much work to help a player succeed. It's an art. CBS has previously helped players like Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Olynyk, Rozier, Theis, and Turner succeed by developing them and putting them in the right places. He's currently doing that with players like Brown, Tatum, Williams, Williams, Ojeleye, and Edwards.

I think we all recognize last year was a mess, but I don't pin that on CBS only. Over the course of his short NBA career CBS has been one of the premier player development coaches in the NBA (that includes his staff and organization as well).

[DefenseWinsChamps]

a few things stuck out to me about Brown this year

1. his foot work seems much improved
2. more confident in driving
3. not trying to do too much on the fast break , learned to slow down
4. I am loving his new found post moves / turn around jumper

The game has simply slowed down for him. It's all easier. It's all simpler. He is reading the court well and using his advantages to get good looks. When he shoots, he is shooting with confidence (although he has passed up some threes in this good stretch that I thought he should take).

[Somebody]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

"Umm", I also disagree with your opinion. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he was in college, but he was a respectable 3 point shooter from day one. Stevens has never "given" him confidence and reps in the sense that he fed him minutes when he wasn't good enough to earn minutes to develop him, Brown earned every minute and rep he got under a very tight leash, and he definitely did not develop the skills he has now because of Brad (Stevens is a coach, not a trainer). You're just giving a lot of unwarranted credit to Brad while diminishing what Jaylen himself has done to improve his game.

Or would you rather Brad receive praise for every thing that's related to our players? Did Tatum grow an inch because Brad allowed him to exercise sufficiently by giving him significant playing time in his rookie season? Because he might be credited for that under your logic and reasoning.

Brown is far from perfect. So is Stevens, but the narrative that he has let a player like Brown grow by sticking him in the corner is "patently false". He's not a bad coach when it comes to developing young talent, but he has a tendency to stick promising young players into off-ball roles that don't develop their on-ball skills.

In his last six games, Brown is averaging almost 23 points per game on excellent efficiency. He's getting plenty of shots; 20 last night. Maybe he could be taking even more shots, or maybe he should be asked to be more of a primary creator, but it's hard to argue with the results. He's getting all-star buzz.

I don't give CBS all the credit, if that's the issue. Brown has shown a lot of maturity and ability to make lemonade out of lemons. He's really learning every aspect of the game. As his ballhandling continues coming along, watch out.

And a few games ago he was completely frozen out of the offence by the coaching staff, he was setting picks and standing in the corner for the entire game. My point was that Stevens deserves little to no credit for Brown's development as he has never given Brown "the reps and opportunity" to develop until Brown made it clear to him that he was more than ready for game time. Brown being able to make lemonade out of lemons doesn't mean that his coach helped him with that, if anything he was the one who put Brown in such a poor situation to begin with.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

And a few games ago he was completely frozen out of the offence by the coaching staff, he was setting picks and standing in the corner for the entire game. My point was that Stevens deserves little to no credit for Brown's development as he has never given Brown "the reps and opportunity" to develop until Brown made it clear to him that he was more than ready for game time. Brown being able to make lemonade out of lemons doesn't mean that his coach helped him with that, if anything he was the one who put Brown in such a poor situation to begin with.

I'm actually kind of with you on that, but I watched that game too. I would like them to force-feed Brown a bit more, but Brown wasn't doing much to be aggressive that game either. It felt like he was coasting (it felt like the entire team was coasting) after Thanksgiving. His defense that game wasn't great either, and we could have used high level defense against Brooklyn when they were scoring all over us.

The coaching staff could do more to get Brown engaged in the game, but Brown needs to be aggressive in the roles he can control--defense and offensive rebounds. I thought he also passed up some open threes that game. He was trying a bit too hard to let the game come to him.

[Somebody]

Did anyone else notice Brown's confidence in his mid range shot tonight? He hit 3 or 4 mid to long range twos last night and looked like he had been hitting them for years.

I did, and to be fair he HAS been hitting them for years - remember posters noting his mid post game and that MJ-esque fadeaway? Again Brad's misuse of Jaylen has really made him underrated.

Umm. Disagree. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he came in the NBA, but now he is a good three point shooter. CBS gave him confidence and reps. Now, under CBS coaching, he has become a premier two-way player at a position of scarcity in the NBA. Does Stevens get any credit for that?

Would you rather he follows the Andrew Wiggins development arch? Because both he and Tatum might have.

CBS is far from perfect. So is Brown, but the narrative that he has somehow held his guys back is patently false. He's one of the premier talent development coaches in the NBA. He's managed to develop talent while being semi-contenders every year. That's something no other coach in the NBA has been able to consistently do.

"Umm", I also disagree with your opinion. Brown's shooting was highly suspect when he was in college, but he was a respectable 3 point shooter from day one. Stevens has never "given" him confidence and reps in the sense that he fed him minutes when he wasn't good enough to earn minutes to develop him, Brown earned every minute and rep he got under a very tight leash, and he definitely did not develop the skills he has now because of Brad (Stevens is a coach, not a trainer). You're just giving a lot of unwarranted credit to Brad while diminishing what Jaylen himself has done to improve his game.

Or would you rather Brad receive praise for every thing that's related to our players? Did Tatum grow an inch because Brad allowed him to exercise sufficiently by giving him significant playing time in his rookie season? Because he might be credited for that under your logic and reasoning.

Brown is far from perfect. So is Stevens, but the narrative that he has let a player like Brown grow by sticking him in the corner is "patently false". He's not a bad coach when it comes to developing young talent, but he has a tendency to stick promising young players into off-ball roles that don't develop their on-ball skills.

Yikes. Hot-takey. Brown deserves a ton of credit too. I'm not taking anything from him. A lot of things have to go right to develop a player. The player has to work hard. The training staff has to keep him healthy. The coaches have to put them in positions to succeed. The trainers have to identify how to sure up weaknesses and maximize strengths. All of that has happened, resulting in Brown's success this year.

Brown didn't have consistency as a ball-handler or finisher to have the ball in his hands a lot in his first few years. Forcing him into that role might have resulted (and often does with players like his skill set) in a loss of confidence. Take Hezonja, Mudiay, Jabari Parker, Ben Mclemore, Stanley Johnson, Derrick Williams, and Tyreke Evans for example. You can identify issues with each player AND each organization that they were drafted into. It takes so much work to help a player succeed. It's an art. CBS has previously helped players like Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Olynyk, Rozier, Theis, and Turner succeed by developing them and putting them in the right places. He's currently doing that with players like Brown, Tatum, Williams, Williams, Ojeleye, and Edwards.

I think we all recognize last year was a mess, but I don't pin that on CBS only. Over the course of his short NBA career CBS has been one of the premier player development coaches in the NBA (that includes his staff and organization as well).

Yikes, 180 turnaround-turny. Brown deserves a ton of credit for his improvement this year (although I actually noted that his leap wasn't as big as what people would like to believe, he was really good last year), as well as the training staff and organisation for believing in his potential, but not Brad Stevens. I think Brown's production this season is on the low side for how good he actually is, up till recently (and arguably even now) he was stuck into the corner to space the floor, or was tasked to come out and set picks. It was a miracle that Brown squeezed 20 PPG on good efficiency out of such a role without hogging the ball whenever he got it, not Brad Stevens turning water into wine in his development of young players.

Brown didn't have the consistency or skill to be a main ballhandler in his first couple of seasons, but by the 2018 playoffs he was smooth and skilled enough to get some plays run for him as a creator. Yet his third season had him spending most of his time standing in the corner, there was no attempt to slowly feed him a possession or two handling the ball to get him reps under the flow of the offence to let him build the necessary confidence and experience that young players need to improve as an on-ball creator. All of the examples you listed got touches like a major figurehead of an offence, and I'm not suggesting that for Brown. Whatever "art" that is involved with developing young players, Stevens has only shown the art of freezing a player out with his handling of Jaylen Brown.

I never pinned last year's failure on Stevens, I believe that a certain point guard in Brooklyn deserves the lion's share of the blame. But we can be supportive of our coach while not losing sight of his strengths and weaknesses, and his handling of Jaylen Brown has been a black mark on his track record of developing young players imo.

[Somebody]

And a few games ago he was completely frozen out of the offence by the coaching staff, he was setting picks and standing in the corner for the entire game. My point was that Stevens deserves little to no credit for Brown's development as he has never given Brown "the reps and opportunity" to develop until Brown made it clear to him that he was more than ready for game time. Brown being able to make lemonade out of lemons doesn't mean that his coach helped him with that, if anything he was the one who put Brown in such a poor situation to begin with.

I'm actually kind of with you on that, but I watched that game too. I would like them to force-feed Brown a bit more, but Brown wasn't doing much to be aggressive that game either. It felt like he was coasting (it felt like the entire team was coasting) after Thanksgiving. His defense that game wasn't great either, and we could have used high level defense against Brooklyn when they were scoring all over us.

The coaching staff could do more to get Brown engaged in the game, but Brown needs to be aggressive in the roles he can control--defense and offensive rebounds. I thought he also passed up some open threes that game. He was trying a bit too hard to let the game come to him.

It's difficult to be 100% engaged when you have legends like Carsen Edwards, Semi Ojeleye and Robert Williams getting to handle the ball while you're standing in the corner, especially when you're a young forward eager to prove that you're worth your new big extension. I think the coaching staff needs to take responsibility in feeding Jaylen the necessary touches to get him going in his development, especially when a main ballhandler in Hayward is out.

[RPGenerate]

It's obvious that Brad rewards aggressive players, and until this year Jaylen's been a very passive player. When every other player except Brown (and Rozier, I guess) have gotten plenty of touches over the years under Brad, then maybe it wasn't Brad who was the problem. Anyways, Jaylen Brown has been very good this season, and I'm impressed with his development.