CelticsStrong
Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Revolution / Soccer => Topic started by: LatterDayCelticsfan on August 13, 2018, 03:41:05 PM
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City and United won. Chelsea got over the community shield loss quickly. Now to see if Liverpool's spending was worth it.
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Chelsea vs Arsenal
Brilliant first 10-15 minutes from Chelsea. Sarri's methods are paying off. The defense looks excellent. Lots of bodies around the ball and in midfield. Few options for Arsenal's midfielders to move the ball forward. Snuffing out attacks before they get going. The attack for Chelsea has been great. They have gotten behind Arsenal at least 3-4 times already.
I am so happy to have David Luiz back in the team this season. What a difference he makes. Absolutely phenomenal passer out of the back. He is killing Arsenal's pressing by taking the ball out of the pack and making incisive passes to runners. So nice to have a defender who can join in the attack like he can.
Wow, what a pass by Guendouzi. Brilliant ball. What a miss by Aubameyang.
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Chelsea look good value for their 2-0 lead. Completely run Arsenal off the park.
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2-2 Game on. Great first half.
Arsenal have looked shoddy most of the half but they have cut apart Chelsea whenever they have gotten near the penalty area. Creating wide open chances in the penalty box and a few more outside the box.
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Spurs are going to take the EPL this year. City is in trouble without KDB.
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Just like that Arsenal are back in the game.
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Arsenal is really back peddeling. I would be suprised if they grab a point today
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Incredible. Two goals in two minutes. Tottenham 2-0 Man Utd.
Super second goal from Tottenham. Great run and cross by Eriksen to setup the goal by Lucas.
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Sigh... Mourinho in and Pogba out.
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I would like to see Man Utd make a few changes:
(1) Midfield = switch to 3 man midfield with one holder and two central mids. I'd like to see Matic dropped and Fred take over as the holding midfielder. Then play Pogba and Herrera as the two central mids. Get more attacking quality on the pitch. More dynamic play. More ball control, dribbling and passing. Make it easier to open up teams.
I'd also like to see Matic dropped further (and sold) in favour of McTominay as the backup defensive mid. I am a huge fan of Matic but youth needs to be served. If Matic is not first choice, I think best to sell him and make way for McTominay.
I am not wild about the Matic - Fred - Pogba 3 man midfield. It is incredible defensively but more good than great in attack. I think Man Utd's front 3 need more help from their midfield so I would like to see them use a more attacking midfield 3. That is the reason for the switch. The reason for changing Fred from CM to DM and dropping Matic.
(2) Forward line = I'd like to see Mourinho use a front 3 and start Martial at #9 instead of Lukaku. I'd like to see Alexis and Lingard start next to Martial in a versatile front 3 than has a lot of movement of positions.
With a CF like Lukaku, I think Man Utd need to build their entire attack around him. Similar to how they played with Van Nistelrooy. And that is good when your CF is good enough to justify it and Lukaku is. I am also a big fan of Lukaku (like Matic, Chelsea fan = so I love Matic and Lukaku both for their talent and from when they played there).
With Martial, Man Utd can use a versatile front 3 more similar to how they played when Rooney, Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo where there. Man Utd scored more goals with that front 3 than with Van Nistelrooy. That balanced attack made them harder to defend against.
It is a difference between midfielders (and wide forwards) being asked to create and service a #9 and being more able to join in and score goals too. It is a more team dynamic.
I think both Martial and Lukaku are top class #9s who could start at #9 for many of the top teams across Europe. I choose Martial over Lukaku because I think Man Utd is better setup to play a team attacking approach then a #9-centered approach (and secondly to a lesser degree because I myself prefer to watch such an approach).
The reason I think Man Utd is better able to play this way is because I do not think they have the right wide forwards to get the best out of Lukaku. When you have a #9 like Lukaku, you need to setup your entire team to service him. To feed him. To create chances for him to finish off. However, Martial and Rashford are both more goalscorers than creators and want to play near the penalty box rather than widening the pitch and put in dangerous balls for Lukaku to attack. Man Utd need proper wingers. Mourinho was 100% correct to pursue Perisic. Perisic would have been phenomenal next to Lukaku. They would have had great chemistry / synergy together. Man Utd need to replace Martial & Rashford with this type of creative winger if they are going to continue with Lukaku as their #9.
This to me is the main problem (well 2nd after Mourinho's cautious approach) with Man United's squad. They have two different ideology at play in their forward line. Half of it is built to play one way. The other half another way. That is why they lack chemistry. Man Utd need to choose one option and discard the other. Lukaku or Martial.
I think playing Martial as #9 instead of Lukaku will also get the best out of Alexis Sanchez. Someone Alexis can dove-tail with. Create combinations with. Allow Alexis more opportunities to come central and score goals than he does with Lukaku.
Lingard is super = he is equally effective in either system and is super important to making either system work because of Man Utd's lack of proper wingers. He should always be in the first 11 when available to play. He is not Man Utd's most talented player but he creates balance for the rest of the team to play at their highest level (like Pedro at Chelsea).
I would sell Lukaku and Matic in order to switch to this type of team both in the long term as well as in the short term.
A big difference between Van Nistelrooy and Lukaku is Van Nistelrooy had Ryan Giggs and David Beckham out wide to create chances for him. To get the best out of Van Nistelrooy's goal-scoring ways. Lukaku does not have this at Man Utd. He has Martial and Rashford (both for CFs than midfielders). Then Lingard (solid all-round attacker rather than top class talent). And Alexis (both goal-scorer and creator but needs freedom to cut inside a lot). Giggs and Beckham kept the pitch spaced wide and creates lots of crosses and dangerous passes for Van Nistelrooy to attack. That is why they were so effective together. Talent + chemistry. Lukaku's teammates have different types of talent and do not get the best out of him. That is why Man Utd either need to change their approach / tactics or sell Martial / Rashford and bring in proper wide players like Perisic to get the most out of Lukaku.
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Spurs the biggest challenger to City this season
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Lukaku is key player for Murinho's tactics. He needs some to collect loose balls , fight for headers and break the ball to players coming from behind.
One could argue that Murinho uses this kind of style because of the players he has but i dont't think so. And i realy doubt he is going to change his tactics
IMHO the only change MU needs is to get a new coach
He is too strongminded to try something different, he constalty diminishes his players which means they don't like him and the club cannot get a decent return by selling them and he seems to be in a constant fight with the ownership.
usually i don't take the owner's side but MU gave JM freedom to spend huge amounts of money (close to 500m)
Pogda and his 100m are as good as gone
Mithrarian's 40m turned into Sanchez
38m for Baily and 35m for Lindelof are wasted since he keeps asking for CDs
Spurs the biggest challenger to City this season
Tot sure looks good but it kills me to say that Liverpool looks very good too
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Lukaku is key player for Murinho's tactics. He needs some to collect loose balls , fight for headers and break the ball to players coming from behind.
One could argue that Murinho uses this kind of style because of the players he has but i dont't think so. And i realy doubt he is going to change his tactics
IMHO the only change MU needs is to get a new coach
He is too strongminded to try something different, he constalty diminishes his players which means they don't like him and the club cannot get a decent return by selling them and he seems to be in a constant fight with the ownership.
usually i don't take the owner's side but MU gave JM freedom to spend huge amounts of money (close to 500m)
Pogda and his 100m are as good as gone
Mithrarian's 40m turned into Sanchez
38m for Baily and 35m for Lindelof are wasted since he keeps asking for CDs
Spurs the biggest challenger to City this season
Tot sure looks good but it kills me to say that Liverpool looks very good too
I disagree with your opinion, and here's why.
The players are either lazy or just inept, a manager helps set up the players in positions to succeed, not help them do stuff such as converting point blank chances (Lukaku, Sanchez, Rashford), not play hero ball and lose the ball in the midfield like a teenage ball hog (Pogba who imo should be sold immediately if Barca offer 100 million pounds or more), defend after losing the ball instead of sulking (Pogba again), show some fight and attitude (Martial, Pogba) or take the game seriously (Bailly). The players are a whole are just so poor because of such factors that it forces Mourinho to play hoofball and ten men behind the ball.
Btw Mourinho attempted to expansive football against Tottenham and it worked for 45 minutes before the aforementioned players sucked ass again. Also Mourinho has been quite supportive of his players this season, he hasn't publicly slated his players and has even praised them. As for "constant fighting with the ownership", there have been reports today dispelling such a notion, saying that Mourinho's relationship with Woodward is as strong as ever, and he has been kept in the loop on moves such as extending Martial's contract (Mourinho backed it).
The spending is 400 million, not 500 (that's City spending iirc) and Pogba was a Woodward signing when Mourinho wanted a midfield player to build a spine, the type of player he wanted was a type like Kroos, Modric, etc, hardworking and industrial midfielders with the flair to energize the engine room, not an attention seeking diva with attitude problems like Pogba. The money spent on Micki was a flop I'll give you that, and Sanchez is not looking good at all so far, but the fee was 30 million and managers do make flops with their signings (eg.Bravo for Pep). Imo Lindelof still has potential, and Mourinho said he was a long term project since he was signed so I think the jury is still out on him. As for Bailly, I don't think it's Mourinho's fault that he drifts in and out while defending, and for the price we spent on him his quality (even with his inconsistency) makes the deal a mediocre one imo.
I think your concerns are valid but imo they're a bit overblown, Mourinho is getting held responsible for everything by the media rn.
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I would like to see Man Utd make a few changes:
(1) Midfield = switch to 3 man midfield with one holder and two central mids. I'd like to see Matic dropped and Fred take over as the holding midfielder. Then play Pogba and Herrera as the two central mids. Get more attacking quality on the pitch. More dynamic play. More ball control, dribbling and passing. Make it easier to open up teams.
I'd also like to see Matic dropped further (and sold) in favour of McTominay as the backup defensive mid. I am a huge fan of Matic but youth needs to be served. If Matic is not first choice, I think best to sell him and make way for McTominay.
I am not wild about the Matic - Fred - Pogba 3 man midfield. It is incredible defensively but more good than great in attack. I think Man Utd's front 3 need more help from their midfield so I would like to see them use a more attacking midfield 3. That is the reason for the switch. The reason for changing Fred from CM to DM and dropping Matic.
(2) Forward line = I'd like to see Mourinho use a front 3 and start Martial at #9 instead of Lukaku. I'd like to see Alexis and Lingard start next to Martial in a versatile front 3 than has a lot of movement of positions.
With a CF like Lukaku, I think Man Utd need to build their entire attack around him. Similar to how they played with Van Nistelrooy. And that is good when your CF is good enough to justify it and Lukaku is. I am also a big fan of Lukaku (like Matic, Chelsea fan = so I love Matic and Lukaku both for their talent and from when they played there).
With Martial, Man Utd can use a versatile front 3 more similar to how they played when Rooney, Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo where there. Man Utd scored more goals with that front 3 than with Van Nistelrooy. That balanced attack made them harder to defend against.
It is a difference between midfielders (and wide forwards) being asked to create and service a #9 and being more able to join in and score goals too. It is a more team dynamic.
I think both Martial and Lukaku are top class #9s who could start at #9 for many of the top teams across Europe. I choose Martial over Lukaku because I think Man Utd is better setup to play a team attacking approach then a #9-centered approach (and secondly to a lesser degree because I myself prefer to watch such an approach).
The reason I think Man Utd is better able to play this way is because I do not think they have the right wide forwards to get the best out of Lukaku. When you have a #9 like Lukaku, you need to setup your entire team to service him. To feed him. To create chances for him to finish off. However, Martial and Rashford are both more goalscorers than creators and want to play near the penalty box rather than widening the pitch and put in dangerous balls for Lukaku to attack. Man Utd need proper wingers. Mourinho was 100% correct to pursue Perisic. Perisic would have been phenomenal next to Lukaku. They would have had great chemistry / synergy together. Man Utd need to replace Martial & Rashford with this type of creative winger if they are going to continue with Lukaku as their #9.
This to me is the main problem (well 2nd after Mourinho's cautious approach) with Man United's squad. They have two different ideology at play in their forward line. Half of it is built to play one way. The other half another way. That is why they lack chemistry. Man Utd need to choose one option and discard the other. Lukaku or Martial.
I think playing Martial as #9 instead of Lukaku will also get the best out of Alexis Sanchez. Someone Alexis can dove-tail with. Create combinations with. Allow Alexis more opportunities to come central and score goals than he does with Lukaku.
Lingard is super = he is equally effective in either system and is super important to making either system work because of Man Utd's lack of proper wingers. He should always be in the first 11 when available to play. He is not Man Utd's most talented player but he creates balance for the rest of the team to play at their highest level (like Pedro at Chelsea).
I would sell Lukaku and Matic in order to switch to this type of team both in the long term as well as in the short term.
A big difference between Van Nistelrooy and Lukaku is Van Nistelrooy had Ryan Giggs and David Beckham out wide to create chances for him. To get the best out of Van Nistelrooy's goal-scoring ways. Lukaku does not have this at Man Utd. He has Martial and Rashford (both for CFs than midfielders). Then Lingard (solid all-round attacker rather than top class talent). And Alexis (both goal-scorer and creator but needs freedom to cut inside a lot). Giggs and Beckham kept the pitch spaced wide and creates lots of crosses and dangerous passes for Van Nistelrooy to attack. That is why they were so effective together. Talent + chemistry. Lukaku's teammates have different types of talent and do not get the best out of him. That is why Man Utd either need to change their approach / tactics or sell Martial / Rashford and bring in proper wide players like Perisic to get the most out of Lukaku.
Exactly what we're playing, only that Matic is the holding midfielder and Fred/Pogba are the central mids. As for Pogba leading to more attacking quality... I'd be ecstatic if he wasn't a detriment to our offense at this point lol. Imo Matic as a holding midfielder to drop back and help out with our CBs while spraying out some long balls for distribution from the back is a good fit for our system, since our CBs either can't really use the ball (Smalling, Jones, Bailly) or defend passably (Lindelof), and the only one that can do a little bit of both (Rojo) is injured. And frankly with our nightmarish performance defensively against Tottenham, I'd advocate strengthening our defense rather than improving our offense (our players just couldn't finish).
I absolutely agree with what you said about Lukaku, and we are currently doing so by playing a 3-5-2 with our wing backs pushing up high to cross and press to initiate attacks to get the ball to Romelu. I do like what you said about Martial and changing the system, but imo he should work his way up and such a system should be used when Lukaku is not available/needs to rest.
Just hoping that Mourinho can get this squad to improve.
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Great win against Burnley, hope we can keep it up and win against Watford and Young Boys.
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What did you guys think of the United-Chelsea game? I thought we deserved three points, we had Chelsea on the ropes in the second half but Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. CBs strike again lol
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José Mourinho sacked by Manchester United
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/18/jose-mourinho-exits-old-trafford-manchester-united-sack-manager
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Delighted Jose Mourinho is gone. His negativity has been a blight on this league since he came back from Real Madrid (first 6 months back at Chelsea aside).
Excited for Man Utd. They can finally start moving forward again. And some of those talented attackers will (hopefully!) finally have a manager who lets them express themselves.
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My sentiment exactly.
MU was supposed to be a good defensive team but they are actually awful and have absolutely no offensive plan other than throw the ball high and expect Lukaku to collect it nad keep it long enough till someone makes a run.
Zidane looks like the first candidate. I dont't know how i feel about it
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20-27m euro the compensation ..... decent consolation for JM.
I doubt he'll spend much time crying about being fired
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Delighted Jose Mourinho is gone. His negativity has been a blight on this league since he came back from Real Madrid (first 6 months back at Chelsea aside).
Excited for Man Utd. They can finally start moving forward again. And some of those talented attackers will (hopefully!) finally have a manager who lets them express themselves.
As a Liverpool fan I'm glad it was them that broke the camel's back ;D
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Things really coming together for Liverpool now it seems.
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Things really coming together for Liverpool now it seems.
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Massive game today!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv6x6wpXgAY56Rs.jpg)
Kick-off starts in about 50 minutes. Buzzing for this one!
Anyone else interested in the Premier League?
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Is it true that at this stage United fans are actually cheering against their team in order to deny Liverpool the title?
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Is it that strange? Liverpool has won 18 titles ManUn 20 and City 5... Who cares if City wins a 6th?
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Is it true that at this stage United fans are actually cheering against their team in order to deny Liverpool the title?
A good amount of them are I believe, although I've stopped being a United fan after the Mourinho sacking (yes I haven't supported them since then, even when Ole was absolutely flying). I know it sounds like very much like what a fairweather fan would do, but the ineptitude from Woodward and the drama United's players cause is annoying to the point where I'd rather support Newcastle with Benitez and all of their issues regarding their owner.
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Delighted Jose Mourinho is gone. His negativity has been a blight on this league since he came back from Real Madrid (first 6 months back at Chelsea aside).
Excited for Man Utd. They can finally start moving forward again. And some of those talented attackers will (hopefully!) finally have a manager who lets them express themselves.
I know that this is a very late comment with hindsight, but the sacking of Jose Mourinho to me was another reactionary move to a squad that frankly isn't good enough, their "talented" players are better on paper than their actual play, and the effort they put in games is horrendous. Mourinho may whine a lot but he was spot on about United's problems (although he was also a part of them), the team is simply not good enough, and their players cannot "express themselves" even when given the opportunity with a Fergie preaching manager simply because they lack the necessary quality and heart to do so.
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My sentiment exactly.
MU was supposed to be a good defensive team but they are actually awful and have absolutely no offensive plan other than throw the ball high and expect Lukaku to collect it nad keep it long enough till someone makes a run.
Zidane looks like the first candidate. I dont't know how i feel about it
Again very late comment with hindsight, but United's supposedly good defense is more of a product of being a Mourinho coached team than actually being staunch in that department, while their offense is still utter crap even when they don't use the long ball. The heart and quality simply isn't there with the squad, and I saw the writing on the wall in December.
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Is it that strange? Liverpool has won 18 titles ManUn 20 and City 5... Who cares if City wins a 6th?
City winning a 6th would be amazing imo, winning 5 in less than 10 years is quite frankly a dynasty level achievement.
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Is it that strange? Liverpool has won 18 titles ManUn 20 and City 5... Who cares if City wins a 6th?
City winning a 6th would be amazing imo, winning 5 in less than 10 years is quite frankly a dynasty level achievement.
Still it keeps MU clear on the top of the all time winners when (if) they win 16-17 will be another story.
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Is it that strange? Liverpool has won 18 titles ManUn 20 and City 5... Who cares if City wins a 6th?
City winning a 6th would be amazing imo, winning 5 in less than 10 years is quite frankly a dynasty level achievement.
Still it keeps MU clear on the top of the all time winners when (if) they win 16-17 will be another story.
eh Liverpool winning would still keep us clear on the top, it'd be their 19th. I'm more interested in where Mourinho goes this summer, I'd probably support that club instead, regardless of their results. Even if United actually find success in the next few seasons, I just have no interest rooting for an Ed Woodward directed club with Paul Pogba, Marcus Rashford, Anthony Martial and David De Gea as the mainstays of the squad.
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I sure hate the personality many player have and the luck of respect for the club and the fans but murihno is not any better.
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I sure hate the personality many player have and the luck of respect for the club and the fans but murihno is not any better.
I disagree but I can see why you have that opinion. He sure as hell cared more for the club than United players, even at the very end.