Rozier is a "winner"

[Big333223]

Can someone explain to me where the "16-5" number came from?

By my count, Rozier started 16 regular season games last season and the team was 11-5 in those games. They were 11-8 in 19 playoff games last season and they are 3-1 in 4 regular season games this year.

[PhoSita]

I don't get the Rozier mania that some people have.

As a starter for his career:

15.3 pts, 6.2 reb, 5.2 ast, 33 mpg, 52.5% TS

Those are better numbers than his career as a reserve, even on a per-minute basis.  It's true that he shows out as a starter.


Even so ... as a starter he's basically average.  I would say he's below average in terms of creating for others, maybe a bit above average in terms of creating looks for himself.


Even during the playoffs last year he had just a 53.8% TS and averaged .149 WS per 48.

It's not like he's an All-Star or something when he starts.



Kyrie, for reference, has a career 57% TS and is averaging over .200 WS per 48 for the last two seasons.



Personally, I think it would make sense for both the Celtics and for Rozier if they traded him to a team lacking a competent starting point guard in exchange for a more well-rounded backup guard.

[Silky]

21 games doing 16, 6 and 5 with 45 and 40%

35 games Kyrie is 23, 6.5 and 5 with 49 and 41%
last season was 60 games of 24.4, 5 and 4 with 49 and 41%

etc, etc

No one is gonna agree with you.

Rozier is a good 2nd tier pg, Kyrie is a superstar top tier pg

Funny, Rozier did it without IRVING, further proving my point, I love Irving by the way, it's not that Irving sucks or anything, it's that Rozier wins as a starter, yet is lauded as the worst player and should be dealt for peanuts.

Kyrie put up numbers without Rozier...not sure what that point is.

But an expiring Rozier that can leave at the end of the season is not going to have killer trade value.

[rondofan1255]

Game 7 of the ECF. 2 pts on 2/14 shooting, including 0/10 from 3.

Winner.

Wow, if you're just using Game 7, you must be really down on....(checks box score)...the whole rest of the roster?

Not necessarily.

But I do think that if you're gonna come out and start singing the praises of a guy and labeling him a winner, you also have to look at the fact that Rozier (among others) laid a massive egg in the biggest game of his career and certainly didn't show being a "winner" in that instance. 

That has to play into this mythology.

In the biggest game of his college career (Elite 8 game vs. Mich St 2015), Terry scored 13 pts on 6-23 shooting.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400787680

[Fan from VT]

21 games doing 16, 6 and 5 with 45 and 40%

35 games Kyrie is 23, 6.5 and 5 with 49 and 41%
last season was 60 games of 24.4, 5 and 4 with 49 and 41%

etc, etc

No one is gonna agree with you.

Rozier is a good 2nd tier pg, Kyrie is a superstar top tier pg

Funny, Rozier did it without IRVING, further proving my point, I love Irving by the way, it's not that Irving sucks or anything, it's that Rozier wins as a starter, yet is lauded as the worst player and should be dealt for peanuts.

Is that really a claim anyone is seriously making? Maybe there exists some place in between "Finals Caliber Starting PG" and "Scrub" that Rozier could occupy?

[Roy H.]

There are two main duties of a bench player:

1. Step up when a starter can’t go. Rozier has been very good at this.

2. Come in when a starter goes to the bench and play adequately, or even provide a spark.

This second duty is a real concern. It’s hard for me to praise Rozier when he cannot do an essential part of his job. He’s not a “winner” if he can’t fill his role.

[Big333223]

I don't get the Rozier mania that some people have.

As a starter for his career:

15.3 pts, 6.2 reb, 5.2 ast, 33 mpg, 52.5% TS

Those are better numbers than his career as a reserve, even on a per-minute basis.  It's true that he shows out as a starter.


Even so ... as a starter he's basically average.  I would say he's below average in terms of creating for others, maybe a bit above average in terms of creating looks for himself.


Even during the playoffs last year he had just a 53.8% TS and averaged .149 WS per 48.

It's not like he's an All-Star or something when he starts.



Kyrie, for reference, has a career 57% TS and is averaging over .200 WS per 48 for the last two seasons.



Personally, I think it would make sense for both the Celtics and for Rozier if they traded him to a team lacking a competent starting point guard in exchange for a more well-rounded backup guard.

This. His numbers aren't better than, like, Jeff Teague. I feel like a lot of this is predicated on some highlights against the Bucks and confirmation bias.

And I'm still curious about this weird "16-5" number.

[RJ87]

I don't get the Rozier mania that some people have.

As a starter for his career:

15.3 pts, 6.2 reb, 5.2 ast, 33 mpg, 52.5% TS

Those are better numbers than his career as a reserve, even on a per-minute basis.  It's true that he shows out as a starter.


Even so ... as a starter he's basically average.  I would say he's below average in terms of creating for others, maybe a bit above average in terms of creating looks for himself.


Even during the playoffs last year he had just a 53.8% TS and averaged .149 WS per 48.

It's not like he's an All-Star or something when he starts.



Kyrie, for reference, has a career 57% TS and is averaging over .200 WS per 48 for the last two seasons.



Personally, I think it would make sense for both the Celtics and for Rozier if they traded him to a team lacking a competent starting point guard in exchange for a more well-rounded backup guard.

This. His numbers aren't better than, like, Jeff Teague. I feel like a lot of this is predicated on some highlights against the Bucks and confirmation bias.

And I'm still curious about this weird "16-5" number.

Honestly. There's an argument to be made that he's a poor man's Dennis Schroeder.

[Fan from VT]

There are two main duties of a bench player:

1. Step up when a starter can’t go. Rozier has been very good at this.

2. Come in when a starter goes to the bench and play adequately, or even provide a spark.

This second duty is a real concern. It’s hard for me to praise Rozier when he cannot do an essential part of his job. He’s not a “winner” if he can’t fill his role.

This is well said. He may end up being in a "no man's land" type of NBA player, where he is:
- More effective as a starter
- Too "good" to be a bench player
- Not good enough to be a full time starter.
- Not effective in the bench role.

There are some people who do figure out how to condense that starting production into a bench role and have long careers. There are some people that have a later than average "leap" and become good enough to be a true bankable starter. Then there are some that get stuck, and top out at average at best when starting, but can't perform from the bench.

[Rondo9]

So Roizier is a scrub now? 

[gouki88]

Yeah what a significant sample size

Rozier is redundant and hopefully not a Celtic for long

[celtics4ever33]

Game 6

Rozier 10-16 , 6-10 , 28 points


Horford 2-8 6 points

[celtics4ever33]

Yeah what a significant sample size

Rozier is redundant and hopefully not a Celtic for long

It really isnt small, he starts, Celtics win, and visibly went deep into playoffs.

[RJ87]

Yeah what a significant sample size

Rozier is redundant and hopefully not a Celtic for long

It really isnt small, he starts, Celtics win, and visibly went deep into playoffs.

Except on the road, where he was markedly worse in the playoffs. So right now, he's good as a starter - at home. That's a really small niche to be in.

[celtics4ever33]

Yeah what a significant sample size

Rozier is redundant and hopefully not a Celtic for long

It really isnt small, he starts, Celtics win, and visibly went deep into playoffs.

Except on the road, where he was markedly worse in the playoffs. So right now, he's good as a starter - at home. That's a really small niche to be in.

A lot of teams are terrible at home, if they were so bad at road , how bad were the other teams? They were just as bad.

the 08 celtics were bad on the road as well, its just how basketball in the playoffs is.

Somehow you guys are basketball fans but dont know this. Mind boggling stuff.