Author Topic: Jaylen was special again  (Read 4082 times)

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Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2019, 02:48:36 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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Everyone love him again until next game when he score 5 points, then its back hating him again lol
Classic Jeff Green

In fairness, I don’t believe Jeff Green was considered “Jeff Green” when he was 22. Took a while before he was referrred to as a disappointment or a guy who’ll never reach his potential.  In fact, Green was seen as quite promising at 22.  It’s probably the fairest thing to do re: Jaylen — to consider him promising — rather than label him the next Jeff Green.

Totally agree.  Early Jeff Green had a lot of potential.  I had a lot of faith in him developing into a fringe star.  I think a few things happened:

1 - His confidence was shook a little by playing in the shadow of Durant

2 - OKC's early attempts at "positionless basketball" kind of stunted his development, because he was forced to play out of position during his early years

3 - By the time he got to Boston, it was after he had a heart surgery that kept him out a full season - and his aggression just never really got there. 

Unfortunately, Brown might be dealing with a little of 1 and 2... playing in the shadow of better players and unfortunately playing out of position might stunt his development.  He seems hungrier than Green so I'm hopeful he can reach a ceiling Jeff never did. 

Year 1:

    Brown: 6.6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.4 steals .454/.341/.685

    Green: 10.5 points, 4.7 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.6 steals .427/.276/.744

Year 2:

    Brown: 14.5 points, 4.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1 steal .465/.395/.644

    Green: 16.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal .446/.389/.788

Year 3:

    Brown: 12 points, 4.1 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.8 steals .433/.284/.659

    Green: 15.1 points, 6 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.3 steals .453/.333/.740

Is what it is. FWIW, Green was older when he entered the league, because he spent more time in College.

    Freshman Brown: 14.6 points, 5.4 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.8 steals .431/.294/.654

    Freshman Green: 13.1 points, 6.6 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1 steal .502/.400/.699

Yes, a lazy comparison.  Only a man who has never gotten off the couch thinks it's rational to equate similar stats from a guy on a 25 win team and a guy on a 55 win team.
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Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2019, 03:44:36 AM »

Offline bopna

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Stellar again... Then stink again... Then so-so again...

The wheels keep rolling and im telling you all.. He really has a career projection exactly as his idol Jeff Green.. Take the bad with the good..

Jeff Green BTW is a good player.. 5th overall pick and has had a solid career... But never made an allstar team and is just a solid wing that gives you good games like g6 and 7 against us in the ECF for without him, the Cavs are done... Then you also get the bad JG that gives you nothing for 20 min.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2019, 03:49:24 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Brown has been injured and looks like himself again.

He has shot 54% from the field in the last five games.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2019, 04:06:17 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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I'm encouraged by the change Jaylen made to his free throw routine: he now looks at the rim throughout his routine rather than looking down and seeing the rim as he goes up to his release point. It makes much more sense from a hand-eye coordination standpoint. I expect his free throw percentage to trend upwards from here on out.

Also: the value in Jaylen will come from his ability to get to the line. He scored 30 points on 15 shots. The only way that is possible is by getting free throws, which Kyrie and Tatum do not do at a high rate.

Jaylen also has the most prototypical "all-around scorer" body/skill set on the team. He can shoot, make simple drive and kicks, pull up in the midrange, hit post fades, dunk on people, and get to the line. At his best he can dominate on both ends of the floor (better than anyone else on this team). I'm pretty confident he will be a [dang] good 2nd or 3rd banana on a contender in 5 years when he's 27.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2019, 06:31:03 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The problem with the Jeff green comparison is that for most or all of last season, jaylen showed two key abilities that green never has for a consistent stretch of time:

1) Versatile, high level defense

2) Above average three point shooting at a decent volume


Yes, his scoring and assertiveness is inconsistent, much like green, and his on court demeanor seems similar.

However, what prevented green from being a better than average player was not the inconsistent scoring per se but his inability to distinguish himself and provide value when he wasn't scoring a bunch.  Green also never supplemented his scoring with volume outside shooting or frequent trips to the free throw line.

Jaylen needs to get his jumper back and learn to assert himself in other areas when he isn't getting a ton of offensive touches in his comfort zones.

I don't know if we can expect jaylen to ever change his mental or emotional approach to the game. I doubt he'll ever become a guy  who generates five free throws a game.

However, it doesn't seem likely to me that his jumpshot last year was a total fluke.

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Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2019, 06:33:28 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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Remember Brown getting labeled he couldn't shoot and then his contribution last season to getting this team to ECF .He certainly could shoot..

Jaylen had one of the hardest adjustments to playing with Hayward coming back. Then complicated by a series of invisible type injuries to really critical areas and throwing off his lift and 3 point shooting
I have had Plantar Fascitis absolutely debilitating and who hasn't had a sprained wrist with its long lingering effects .Then there was the back bruise Remember what that did to IT even his foul shooting took a hit.
Jaylen was awkward at the rim ,his shot was off and he snow ploughed into players in traffic.It got in his head and his body language said it all.
Jaylen last night made some very fluid and flexible moves to the hoop,his shot which i thought had flattened had its arc back
I didn't criticize Jaylen!! just the opposite because Jaylen is his own worst critic and hopefully the injuries have cleared and that this was a breakout game to get him back on track.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 06:42:07 AM by rollie mass »

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2019, 06:33:32 AM »

Offline 10610786d

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I feel like I've had this argument before, but I'm not really sure I see the comparison. They play different, positions, they have different strengths, they came into the NBA at different ages, the situation they are in was different (rebuilding young team vs quasi contender). And I know  you like to show people the numbers to mae your point, but thats kind of misleading given the differecens cited above. For example compare Jeff Green's 2nd year averages to tatums right now and I think you'll see they are argably closer than Jaylens. So does that mean Tatum is more like Jeff Green?

Could Jaylen end up ike Jeff Green? Ya, any young player could. If he goes a couple of years without showing any further imprvement while  also utterly failing to impact winnning then you can label him Jeff Green. Jeff Green gets a bad rap because he was wildly inconsistent at 25, 26 ect not because he was Jaylen like Jaylen and strugglig at age 22. Thats soemtihng that happnes to young players.


To play devil's advocate, I guess it's true that you'd be more often right than not to bet against someone, because there's only 20 to 30 "real" stars in the league at any given point, and there's heaps of players who don't even make an NBA roster. So it's always "better" to be disparaging to your young players, in a certain sense, because you'd more often be right than not.

At the end of the day we can only hope Jaylen doesn't end up being Jeff Green.

For now, we can all be happy with what we have - and hell, based on the highlights, Jaylen's workouts with TMac is coming through - the in-between jumper game is really niiiiiiiice.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2019, 08:08:13 AM »

Offline ederson

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Brown has been injured and looks like himself again.

He has shot 54% from the field in the last five games.

I'd wait a bit more till i am sure that JB is back. 5 games is a very small sample

I hope he is though

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 12:01:38 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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I feel it's time to get him and Hayward back in the starting lineup.  I know Smart and Morris have helped solidify the scoring but this team is better when the starting 5 is Horford, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown and Hayward. 

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 12:13:36 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I feel it's time to get him and Hayward back in the starting lineup.  I know Smart and Morris have helped solidify the scoring but this team is better when the starting 5 is Horford, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown and Hayward. 

I'd leave things just as they are, putting Brown back into the starting lineup likely will just lead to him being marginalized again. Brown has more impact right now as a bench player given the C's roster. I would like to see him consistently around 30 mpg, though. He's earned that much.

As for Hayward, he just isn't playing well enough to justify more than 20 mpg role off the bench. At some point you just have to accept he is what he is right now, and adjust accordingly.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 12:28:33 PM »

Offline CF033

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I feel it's time to get him and Hayward back in the starting lineup.  I know Smart and Morris have helped solidify the scoring but this team is better when the starting 5 is Horford, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown and Hayward.

I don't know, sometimes I feel like Brown and Hayward struggle on the floor when they're together. I'm good with Brown starting (even then I think his effectiveness isn't at max being behind Kyrie, Morris and Tatum as he doesn't seem as aggressive being that far down) but I think Hayward still needs to come off the bench.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2019, 12:37:45 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Great game for Jaylen the other night despite the bad result.  A lot of those plays looked like Playoff Jaylen - controlled, smooth, decisive.  Good to see. I say we keep him on the bench until he learns how to play like that more consistently and importantly for getting promoted, selectively.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2019, 12:45:47 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I feel it's time to get him and Hayward back in the starting lineup.  I know Smart and Morris have helped solidify the scoring but this team is better when the starting 5 is Horford, Kyrie, Tatum, Brown and Hayward.

I don't know, sometimes I feel like Brown and Hayward struggle on the floor when they're together. I'm good with Brown starting (even then I think his effectiveness isn't at max being behind Kyrie, Morris and Tatum as he doesn't seem as aggressive being that far down) but I think Hayward still needs to come off the bench.

I agree with this.  I don't think we need to change but if we do, start Brown OR Hayward, not both.  Smart is good off the bench or starting.  At this point, I don't expect a change.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2019, 01:11:02 PM »

Offline wiley

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Brown should play more minutes than Hayward, probably for the rest of the season.  I don't see anyway this year for Hayward to match Jaylen's overall game.  Next year could be a different story.  A trade may be necessary.  I take the long view.  The injury was devastating and it'll take a good long while...

Hayward, for the short term, will be able to provide value in short minutes with his IQ, passing and occasional hot shooting I presume..

I would play Hayward 20 minutes a game unless he's having a break out game, Brad can adjust for Brown or Hayward having it going on any particular night...

right now both Jaylen and Hayward are averaging 26.5 minutes per game.  I'd put Hayward at 20 and Brown at 32, or Hayward at 18 and Brown at 34.  I think both guys will play better that way.

Re: Jaylen was special again
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2019, 04:37:40 PM »

Offline konkmv

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Jaylen and jason are to me untradeable.. i do not question their will to become better and their willingness to learn.. i can wait them 2 3 years to mature... before last years injuries the 3 guys that would make us a championship team were irwing hayward and horford.. everybody demands so much from those kids before even being 22...i did not see davis towns lilard porzingis giannis having more success than our guys till now... and yes
.. both of them are not better than kawi harden russ curry and durant and others
.. yet