Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)

[gouki88]

Draft Express-ESPN’s Givony proposed Celt and Pistons swapping first round picks as well. We would move up to 7. This was mentioned on Vicenie-Hollinger podcast too. So the idea seems to have some traction. Will depend who is available at 7.

Whom we would have to be available at 7 for you to make that 3 for 1 trade ??

I'd give strong consideration for that kind of move if Avdija was available there. Such a natural guy to learn off and then supplant Hayward.

I'd probably do it for Killian Hayes too

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Draft Express-ESPN’s Givony proposed Celt and Pistons swapping first round picks as well. We would move up to 7. This was mentioned on Vicenie-Hollinger podcast too. So the idea seems to have some traction. Will depend who is available at 7.

Whom we would have to be available at 7 for you to make that 3 for 1 trade ??

I'd give strong consideration for that kind of move if Avdija was available there. Such a natural guy to learn off and then supplant Hayward.

I'd probably do it for Killian Hayes too

I'm not as big of a fan of Avdija. I like him, but I can tell I'm not as high on him as you are. I would probably make that trade for Wiseman or Hayes. Okongwu is another possibility I'm on the fence about, depending on whether his interviews and workouts swayed me onto the side of drafting him. Any of those guys might fit with the core moving forward in a dynamic way, and they have high-level upside.

I think Ball and Edwards aren't worth the risk to trade up. The upside is there, but I'm not sure either guy fits in with this core. Everyone else fits cleanly into the next tier, where I think there are equal-quality players that would available at 14, like Anthony, Hampton, Williams, and Achiwua.

[gouki88]

Draft Express-ESPN’s Givony proposed Celt and Pistons swapping first round picks as well. We would move up to 7. This was mentioned on Vicenie-Hollinger podcast too. So the idea seems to have some traction. Will depend who is available at 7.

Whom we would have to be available at 7 for you to make that 3 for 1 trade ??

I'd give strong consideration for that kind of move if Avdija was available there. Such a natural guy to learn off and then supplant Hayward.

I'd probably do it for Killian Hayes too

I'm not as big of a fan of Avdija. I like him, but I can tell I'm not as high on him as you are. I would probably make that trade for Wiseman or Hayes. Okongwu is another possibility I'm on the fence about, depending on whether his interviews and workouts swayed me onto the side of drafting him. Any of those guys might fit with the core moving forward in a dynamic way, and they have high-level upside.

I think Ball and Edwards aren't worth the risk to trade up. The upside is there, but I'm not sure either guy fits in with this core. Everyone else fits cleanly into the next tier, where I think there are equal-quality players that would available at 14, like Anthony, Hampton, Williams, and Achiwua.

Ah yeah, Okongwu is a good call. I rate him as a top 5 prospect in this draft but have seen him fall on a few mocks, so if he was available at 7 I'd definitely swoop.

I love Avdija, if I'm honest. He plays with 5 former NBA players on his team (Amare, Omri Casspi, Quincy Acy, Tarik Black and Tyler Dorsey) and was as good as any of them. If you've got a spare 10 minutes give this video a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmKrg1zWVys&t=18s

There isn't much separation with many of these guys. I view Edwards, Ball, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes and Wiseman as a cut above. Agree about your assessments of Ball and Edwards for this team

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Draft Express-ESPN’s Givony proposed Celt and Pistons swapping first round picks as well. We would move up to 7. This was mentioned on Vicenie-Hollinger podcast too. So the idea seems to have some traction. Will depend who is available at 7.

Whom we would have to be available at 7 for you to make that 3 for 1 trade ??

I'd give strong consideration for that kind of move if Avdija was available there. Such a natural guy to learn off and then supplant Hayward.

I'd probably do it for Killian Hayes too

I'm not as big of a fan of Avdija. I like him, but I can tell I'm not as high on him as you are. I would probably make that trade for Wiseman or Hayes. Okongwu is another possibility I'm on the fence about, depending on whether his interviews and workouts swayed me onto the side of drafting him. Any of those guys might fit with the core moving forward in a dynamic way, and they have high-level upside.

I think Ball and Edwards aren't worth the risk to trade up. The upside is there, but I'm not sure either guy fits in with this core. Everyone else fits cleanly into the next tier, where I think there are equal-quality players that would available at 14, like Anthony, Hampton, Williams, and Achiwua.

Ah yeah, Okongwu is a good call. I rate him as a top 5 prospect in this draft but have seen him fall on a few mocks, so if he was available at 7 I'd definitely swoop.

I love Avdija, if I'm honest. He plays with 5 former NBA players on his team (Amare, Omri Casspi, Quincy Acy, Tarik Black and Tyler Dorsey) and was as good as any of them. If you've got a spare 10 minutes give this video a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmKrg1zWVys&t=18s

There isn't much separation with many of these guys. I view Edwards, Ball, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes and Wiseman as a cut above. Agree about your assessments of Ball and Edwards for this team

So, here are my thoughts about Avdija. I think he's an NBA player. I think he can play big minutes on a winning basketball team. I would be thrilled to have him.

My only point is that I really do think he's basically in the same tier as a lot of guys in that range. I agree that he is a Batum type of player--that's a valuable guy to have. It's just that, if you are going to spend the necessary picks to move up, I'd like it to be for someone with bigger upside. That's why I'm in on Wiseman, Hayes, and Okongwu. I see those guys not only as better fits on the team (because Advija plays the same position as the other guys), but also as guys with less significant weaknesses and higher general upside.

[gouki88]

Draft Express-ESPN’s Givony proposed Celt and Pistons swapping first round picks as well. We would move up to 7. This was mentioned on Vicenie-Hollinger podcast too. So the idea seems to have some traction. Will depend who is available at 7.

Whom we would have to be available at 7 for you to make that 3 for 1 trade ??

I'd give strong consideration for that kind of move if Avdija was available there. Such a natural guy to learn off and then supplant Hayward.

I'd probably do it for Killian Hayes too

I'm not as big of a fan of Avdija. I like him, but I can tell I'm not as high on him as you are. I would probably make that trade for Wiseman or Hayes. Okongwu is another possibility I'm on the fence about, depending on whether his interviews and workouts swayed me onto the side of drafting him. Any of those guys might fit with the core moving forward in a dynamic way, and they have high-level upside.

I think Ball and Edwards aren't worth the risk to trade up. The upside is there, but I'm not sure either guy fits in with this core. Everyone else fits cleanly into the next tier, where I think there are equal-quality players that would available at 14, like Anthony, Hampton, Williams, and Achiwua.

Ah yeah, Okongwu is a good call. I rate him as a top 5 prospect in this draft but have seen him fall on a few mocks, so if he was available at 7 I'd definitely swoop.

I love Avdija, if I'm honest. He plays with 5 former NBA players on his team (Amare, Omri Casspi, Quincy Acy, Tarik Black and Tyler Dorsey) and was as good as any of them. If you've got a spare 10 minutes give this video a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmKrg1zWVys&t=18s

There isn't much separation with many of these guys. I view Edwards, Ball, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes and Wiseman as a cut above. Agree about your assessments of Ball and Edwards for this team

So, here are my thoughts about Avdija. I think he's an NBA player. I think he can play big minutes on a winning basketball team. I would be thrilled to have him.

My only point is that I really do think he's basically in the same tier as a lot of guys in that range. I agree that he is a Batum type of player--that's a valuable guy to have. It's just that, if you are going to spend the necessary picks to move up, I'd like it to be for someone with bigger upside. That's why I'm in on Wiseman, Hayes, and Okongwu. I see those guys not only as better fits on the team (because Advija plays the same position as the other guys), but also as guys with less significant weaknesses and higher general upside.

They very well might have a higher upside (I'm not sure about Wiseman), but I am also quite a bit more skeptical of their floor. I think Avdija has a floor that most likely pans out as that Batum-like 15-5-5 guy, but I think his ceiling is a Hayward/Hedo blend of All-Star level playmaking wing play. I think on this team that has a proven value, but I agree, it might not be worth trading up for.

Especially so given the similar level of talent between picks 8-20. A few of the intriguing draft and stash prospects (Pokusevski, Bolmaro, Maledon) could tempt me to not want to trade up, but if Okongwu or Hayes is there pull the trigger. That being said, I can't see Detroit passing on Hayes - would be a great PG going forward

[Jvalin]

I think Avdija has a floor that most likely pans out as that Batum-like 15-5-5 guy, but I think his ceiling is a Hayward/Hedo blend of All-Star level playmaking wing play.

I actually think his floor is much lower than that. Let's say Omri Casspi vol 2 (better passer than Casspi, worse shooter). Prime Batum was a 2-way player, whereas Avdija projects to be a way below average on-ball defender.

Not a big fan of Okongwu's game either. Personally speaking, I'd rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu.

Wiseman is a tantalizing prospect. Problem is, he'd be a bad fit for our system. He ain't mobile enough to defend the pick n roll and/or stay in front of smaller players on the perimeter.

If we were to trade up, my target would be Haliburton.

[CFAN38]

Draft Express-ESPN’s Givony proposed Celt and Pistons swapping first round picks as well. We would move up to 7. This was mentioned on Vicenie-Hollinger podcast too. So the idea seems to have some traction. Will depend who is available at 7.

Whom we would have to be available at 7 for you to make that 3 for 1 trade ??

I've been debating that since hearing it speculated by Hollinger.

I have Ball tier 1, Edwards tier 2 after that my Tier 3 is

Hayes
Okongwu
Wiseman
Avdija
Okoro

I would be happy with a 3-1 trade up for any of those 5. Vassell is on the fridge for me but I feel comfortable leaving him out of that group.

All 5 of those players I view as having fridge allstar ceilings. Their must more likely outcomes are as solid 5th starters on a playoff team.

Hayes, is the best long term prospect in this tier and the best fit for the Cs. The size, defense and shot creation he brings to the point especially after a few years under Kemba and working with BS could be dynasty building. He could pair with Tatum, Smart and Brown to form the best perimeter defending 4 players in the NBA.

Okongwu, fills a need at Center and would likely push Kanter and R Williams for minutes right away. He may also prove good enough to make Theis expendable as a FA. His mobility and IQ should make him the long term center solution.

Wisman, is a gamble worth taking. If he figures out how to using his freaking physical tools in the NBA he has all defensive potential. His comfort level on the perimeter would allow him to develop into the type of versatile big BS loves. The fear is he is more of an empty stats guy.

Avdija, he is a great future Hayward replacement. While he needs to prove himself as a shooter his ability to create for others as well has his high IQ on both ends of the floor and surprising effectiveness as a rim protector should endear him to BS. If he becomes an average 3pt shooter he is a great fit with Tatum and Brown.

Okoro, he is my wild card and perhaps the most "DA guy of this list". He has the tools and the mindset to be a pitbull on D. Not to the level of Smart but in that mold but 2" taller. Even more so then Hayes he could pair with the current Cs core to form a future super defense at a level unlike anything in the current NBA. The idea of Smart and Okoro sharing the court is scary for opposing teams. 

[gouki88]

I think Avdija has a floor that most likely pans out as that Batum-like 15-5-5 guy, but I think his ceiling is a Hayward/Hedo blend of All-Star level playmaking wing play.

I actually think his floor is way lower than that. Let's say Omri Casspi vol 2 (better passer than Casspi, worse shooter). Prime Batum was a 2-way player, whereas Avdija projects to be a way below average on-ball defender.

Not a big fan of Okongwu's game either. Personally speaking, I'd rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu.

If we were to trade up, my target would be Haliburton.

I don't agree with that at all about Avdija on defence. He has elite verticality, is a good team and help defender and recovers really well when beat. Once he adds some strength he'll be fine. I also remember Jayson Tatum being drafted with on-ball defence being a considerable criticism of his, and he's panned out pretty decently. He'll never be the wing defender that other guys in this draft are, but he's not bad by any means

[Jvalin]

I think Avdija has a floor that most likely pans out as that Batum-like 15-5-5 guy, but I think his ceiling is a Hayward/Hedo blend of All-Star level playmaking wing play.

I actually think his floor is way lower than that. Let's say Omri Casspi vol 2 (better passer than Casspi, worse shooter). Prime Batum was a 2-way player, whereas Avdija projects to be a way below average on-ball defender.

Not a big fan of Okongwu's game either. Personally speaking, I'd rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu.

If we were to trade up, my target would be Haliburton.

I don't agree with that at all about Avdija on defence. He has elite verticality, is a good team and help defender and recovers really well when beat. Once he adds some strength he'll be fine. I also remember Jayson Tatum being drafted with on-ball defence being a considerable criticism of his, and he's panned out pretty decently. He'll never be the wing defender that other guys in this draft are, but he's not bad by any means

I guess time will tell.

If you ask me, I'd rather have Saddiq Bey. He can do everything Avdija does on offense, plus he projects to be a better defender.

Since we are talking about wings, gimme Vassell + Nesmith over Avdija as well. Not the same type of players compared to Avdija, but imo they both have a considerably higher floor.

[wiley]

Attempted summary on these players and move up to 7 in trade with Detroit scenario:

OKONGWU:  Yes I'd trade all three of our picks for this guy.

WISEMAN:  I'm scared of him....too many mocks where he's down at 8 or so just frighten me.
He might be an incredible trade chip ...for an unprotected 2021 pick of some bottom feeder.
Or for a player right now...Wiseman, Hayward and Theis for Beal and Bertans and pick 9 (Halliburton/Toppin/Hayes/etc..)?

HALLIBURTON:  I'd trade all our picks for him UNLESS Vassell or Patrick Williams are still available.
(if the C's are able to do a wait and see trade....tricky maybe). 

AVDIJA:  I think this guy would bring fun and joy to the team with his passing...would not trade for him if Vassell or P. Williams on the board at 14.  If they're off the board, I'd try to work out some trade but not all three first rounders.

HAYES:  ??  I like the idea of it...but I can't tell how good this guy will be.  If his defense is highly rated then yes I'd trade all three picks for him.  If Vassell or P. Williams on board then get back a 2021 second round pick from Detroit.  Only do this one if he's a good fit with Brad Stevens...that is, not too ball dominant.

TOPPIN:  I don't know.  He was a binky...now I'm confused.  Sometimes I think he'd be the perfect post Hayward starting PF for a very long time...would make a good pairing with Okongwu! Oh well.

OKORO:  Not if we can land Vassell/P. Williams.  I will say this guy is the mystery man of the draft for me.  He seems like he could have a Gerald Wallace type career (which was awesome for a while), but he's got me worried he'll be the guy everyone regrets not taking...as in Kawhi-like down the road.
I like Hayward off the bench (year after next).  The thought of Okoro starting between the two J's is pretty scintillating....
but I also like:  Kemba, Vassell, Brown, Tatum, Kanter/Theis/Williams
and:  Kemba, Brown, Tatum, P. Williams, Kanter/Theis/Williams
Hmmmmmm.  I might talk myself into a pure yes on Okoro.

[footey]

Attempted summary on these players and move up to 7 in trade with Detroit scenario:

OKONGWU:  Yes I'd trade all three of our picks for this guy.

WISEMAN:  I'm scared of him....too many mocks where he's down at 8 or so just frighten me.
He might be an incredible trade chip ...for an unprotected 2021 pick of some bottom feeder.
Or for a player right now...Wiseman, Hayward and Theis for Beal and Bertans and pick 9 (Halliburton/Toppin/Hayes/etc..)?

HALLIBURTON:  I'd trade all our picks for him UNLESS Vassell or Patrick Williams are still available.
(if the C's are able to do a wait and see trade....tricky maybe). 

AVDIJA:  I think this guy would bring fun and joy to the team with his passing...would not trade for him if Vassell or P. Williams on the board at 14.  If they're off the board, I'd try to work out some trade but not all three first rounders.

HAYES:  ??  I like the idea of it...but I can't tell how good this guy will be.  If his defense is highly rated then yes I'd trade all three picks for him.  If Vassell or P. Williams on board then get back a 2021 second round pick from Detroit.  Only do this one if he's a good fit with Brad Stevens...that is, not too ball dominant.

TOPPIN:  I don't know.  He was a binky...now I'm confused.  Sometimes I think he'd be the perfect post Hayward starting PF for a very long time...would make a good pairing with Okongwu! Oh well.

OKORO:  Not if we can land Vassell/P. Williams.  I will say this guy is the mystery man of the draft for me.  He seems like he could have a Gerald Wallace type career (which was awesome for a while), but he's got me worried he'll be the guy everyone regrets not taking...as in Kawhi-like down the road.
I like Hayward off the bench (year after next).  The thought of Okoro starting between the two J's is pretty scintillating....
but I also like:  Kemba, Vassell, Brown, Tatum, Kanter/Theis/Williams
and:  Kemba, Brown, Tatum, P. Williams, Kanter/Theis/Williams
Hmmmmmm.  I might talk myself into a pure yes on Okoro.

You can’t make decision on trading for the 7th pick until you find out if Williams or Vassel are still available at 14. The trade requires Detroit to pick the guy you want at 7. You can’t condition it that way. No team would agree to that. They would be stuck with a guy they otherwise may not want to take.

[wiley]

Attempted summary on these players and move up to 7 in trade with Detroit scenario:

OKONGWU:  Yes I'd trade all three of our picks for this guy.

WISEMAN:  I'm scared of him....too many mocks where he's down at 8 or so just frighten me.
He might be an incredible trade chip ...for an unprotected 2021 pick of some bottom feeder.
Or for a player right now...Wiseman, Hayward and Theis for Beal and Bertans and pick 9 (Halliburton/Toppin/Hayes/etc..)?

HALLIBURTON:  I'd trade all our picks for him UNLESS Vassell or Patrick Williams are still available.
(if the C's are able to do a wait and see trade....tricky maybe). 

AVDIJA:  I think this guy would bring fun and joy to the team with his passing...would not trade for him if Vassell or P. Williams on the board at 14.  If they're off the board, I'd try to work out some trade but not all three first rounders.

HAYES:  ??  I like the idea of it...but I can't tell how good this guy will be.  If his defense is highly rated then yes I'd trade all three picks for him.  If Vassell or P. Williams on board then get back a 2021 second round pick from Detroit.  Only do this one if he's a good fit with Brad Stevens...that is, not too ball dominant.

TOPPIN:  I don't know.  He was a binky...now I'm confused.  Sometimes I think he'd be the perfect post Hayward starting PF for a very long time...would make a good pairing with Okongwu! Oh well.

OKORO:  Not if we can land Vassell/P. Williams.  I will say this guy is the mystery man of the draft for me.  He seems like he could have a Gerald Wallace type career (which was awesome for a while), but he's got me worried he'll be the guy everyone regrets not taking...as in Kawhi-like down the road.
I like Hayward off the bench (year after next).  The thought of Okoro starting between the two J's is pretty scintillating....
but I also like:  Kemba, Vassell, Brown, Tatum, Kanter/Theis/Williams
and:  Kemba, Brown, Tatum, P. Williams, Kanter/Theis/Williams
Hmmmmmm.  I might talk myself into a pure yes on Okoro.

You can’t make decision on trading for the 7th pick until you find out if Williams or Vassel are still available at 14. The trade requires Detroit to pick the guy you want at 7. You can’t condition it that way. No team would agree to that. They would be stuck with a guy they otherwise may not want to take.

I know...it would only work if Detroit and the C's had the same guy at #7 on their board.  Then at 14 the guy Detroit wanted was there...such that they agree to the whole swap.  Almost impossible for it to work out.

[CelticsElite]

Sam Vecenie and John Hollinger on Game Theory Podcast speculating on Boston's 14th pick, thought that CLE (5), Detroit (7) or even NY ( may be interested in trading their 1st round pick for Boston's 14, 26 and 30th. Since they need to develop their roster depth.

I would do that to get Killian Hayes or Deven Vassell, one of whom should be available there.   Point is there may be interest in teams wanting to trade down due to their need to fill roster space and lock in longer cheap contracts. Boston is in better position, draft pick wise, to trade up than any other team. Also motivated given our roster situation.

This is the draft to trade down. All the  talent seems mediocre so take a bunch of shots.
As a playoff team with limited development playing time you trade up if you have the assets.

100% agreed

I really hope we get a chance to trade up. It definitely makes sense that a rebuilding team will look to trade down. More than A few gems and stars will surface in the late 1st  due to the circumstances of this draft

[gouki88]

I think Avdija has a floor that most likely pans out as that Batum-like 15-5-5 guy, but I think his ceiling is a Hayward/Hedo blend of All-Star level playmaking wing play.

I actually think his floor is way lower than that. Let's say Omri Casspi vol 2 (better passer than Casspi, worse shooter). Prime Batum was a 2-way player, whereas Avdija projects to be a way below average on-ball defender.

Not a big fan of Okongwu's game either. Personally speaking, I'd rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu.

If we were to trade up, my target would be Haliburton.

I don't agree with that at all about Avdija on defence. He has elite verticality, is a good team and help defender and recovers really well when beat. Once he adds some strength he'll be fine. I also remember Jayson Tatum being drafted with on-ball defence being a considerable criticism of his, and he's panned out pretty decently. He'll never be the wing defender that other guys in this draft are, but he's not bad by any means

I guess time will tell.

If you ask me, I'd rather have Saddiq Bey. He can do everything Avdija does on offense, plus he projects to be a better defender.

Since we are talking about wings, gimme Vassell + Nesmith over Avdija as well. Not the same type of players compared to Avdija, but imo they both have a considerably higher floor.

Bey is not even close to the playmaker Avdija is. Worlds apart. Bey plays offence like Tobias Harris does (or did when he was young) to my eye.

I like Nesmith's chance of being an NBA success. Elite JJ Reddick-like offensive player under Stackhouse, who had them running some advanced level stuff. Lots of elevator screens which is exciting. His ability to use screens is way beyond his years. I do have concerns over his absolute lack of displayed playmaking ability and injury worries.

I don't mind Vassell either, but his scoring profile is really nothing that excites me. I'd rather Josh Green, as he projects to be similarly elite defensively and will like be available lower than Vassell

[footey]

I think Avdija has a floor that most likely pans out as that Batum-like 15-5-5 guy, but I think his ceiling is a Hayward/Hedo blend of All-Star level playmaking wing play.

I actually think his floor is way lower than that. Let's say Omri Casspi vol 2 (better passer than Casspi, worse shooter). Prime Batum was a 2-way player, whereas Avdija projects to be a way below average on-ball defender.

Not a big fan of Okongwu's game either. Personally speaking, I'd rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu.

If we were to trade up, my target would be Haliburton.

I don't agree with that at all about Avdija on defence. He has elite verticality, is a good team and help defender and recovers really well when beat. Once he adds some strength he'll be fine. I also remember Jayson Tatum being drafted with on-ball defence being a considerable criticism of his, and he's panned out pretty decently. He'll never be the wing defender that other guys in this draft are, but he's not bad by any means

I guess time will tell.

If you ask me, I'd rather have Saddiq Bey. He can do everything Avdija does on offense, plus he projects to be a better defender.

Since we are talking about wings, gimme Vassell + Nesmith over Avdija as well. Not the same type of players compared to Avdija, but imo they both have a considerably higher floor.

Bey is not even close to the playmaker Avdija is. Worlds apart. Bey plays offence like Tobias Harris does (or did when he was young) to my eye.

I like Nesmith's chance of being an NBA success. Elite JJ Reddick-like offensive player under Stackhouse, who had them running some advanced level stuff. Lots of elevator screens which is exciting. His ability to use screens is way beyond his years. I do have concerns over his absolute lack of displayed playmaking ability and injury worries.

I don't mind Vassell either, but his scoring profile is really nothing that excites me. I'd rather Josh Green, as he projects to be similarly elite defensively and will like be available lower than Vassell

I was high on Nesmith until recently when I listened to Max Carlin pray the Celtics don't draft him at 14.   Feels we need a guy who can create off dribble, and that Nesmith cannot. His shooting is elite, though.  I could see him as a Buddy Heild/Dale Ellis type to get us some efficient 3 point buckets off the bench.  Not sure if he would project as a starter; it depends on how he turns out defensively. The length is there for sure.

Interesting to read your take on Vassell vs Green. I will look at more tape on Green.  I like Vassell a lot, and could see him fitting very well into Brad's system.  Would you consider taking Green at 14?