The Hayward S&T: Missed Opportunity? (Merged)

[NKY fan]

Indiana was only willing to pay hayward 20-25million$ a year

no way he was turning down 30million$ from charlotte.

Again, if we’d finished the deal early on, Charlotte wouldn’t have even been in the picture.

But that makes little sense. Do you think Hayward and his agent weren't gonna test the waters for what other suitors were offering? The Celtics and Pacers rushing to do a sign and trade deal doesn't mean a thing without Hayward writing off on it.

Free agents sign early all of the time. From what we have heard, Hayward was willing to take less from Indiana, and Indy seems to have thought that if the trade was done, Hayward would have signed there.

Yeah, it's what we've heard... from a single source and the incredibly biased opinion of a gm that didn't get what he wanted. I just don't buy it, as it doesn't make sense to me.

One thing to take away from this debacle is that unlike what a lot of people think on here (that Ainge is the GOAT of GMs ) he does make mistakes and this failed S&T seems like an example of that.
Just acknowledge that he messed up .. there is no need to rationalize what he did and make it seem like it was the absolute best move for danny to not do the deal with Indy

[NKY fan]

Indiana was only willing to pay hayward 20-25million$ a year

no way he was turning down 30million$ from charlotte.

Again, if we’d finished the deal early on, Charlotte wouldn’t have even been in the picture.

But that makes little sense. Do you think Hayward and his agent weren't gonna test the waters for what other suitors were offering? The Celtics and Pacers rushing to do a sign and trade deal doesn't mean a thing without Hayward writing off on it.

Free agents sign early all of the time. From what we have heard, Hayward was willing to take less from Indiana, and Indy seems to have thought that if the trade was done, Hayward would have signed there.

Yeah, it's what we've heard... from a single source and the incredibly biased opinion of a gm that didn't get what he wanted. I just don't buy it, as it doesn't make sense to me.

You will obviously believe what you will, but how often do you GM’s go on record? Not a source, not a leak, but straight up discussing a deal with the media?

I remember Danny doing that exactly once, when he tried to massively overpay for justice Winslow. He was frustrated because he thought the GM on the other side was being unreasonable and kept him from a player that he coveted, and he vented to the media about it.  Kevin Pritchard is doing the exact same thing here.

Yea Danny has done the same. It was not very collegiate at the time . I think he and his disciples learned the lesson from that.

[jambr380]

Indiana was only willing to pay hayward 20-25million$ a year

no way he was turning down 30million$ from charlotte.

Again, if we’d finished the deal early on, Charlotte wouldn’t have even been in the picture.

But that makes little sense. Do you think Hayward and his agent weren't gonna test the waters for what other suitors were offering? The Celtics and Pacers rushing to do a sign and trade deal doesn't mean a thing without Hayward writing off on it.

I agree with this take and it's also what I said in my earlier response. I understand that it's possible that the deal could have been done if agreed upon earlier, but that would just be his agent doing a bad job. The CHA signing was discussed on the first night FA opened, it's not like it took a week. Just because Pritchard is salty that he didn't get his guy for ~$25M/yr early on in negotiations doesn't mean it was ever really on the table. I think it's pretty safe to say that if he had been willing to pay $120M for Hayward, Hayward would be in Indy right now. Good for Hayward and his agent (and so far CHA), bad for BOS and IND - it happens.

[LilRip]

Indiana was only willing to pay hayward 20-25million$ a year

no way he was turning down 30million$ from charlotte.

Again, if we’d finished the deal early on, Charlotte wouldn’t have even been in the picture.

But that makes little sense. Do you think Hayward and his agent weren't gonna test the waters for what other suitors were offering? The Celtics and Pacers rushing to do a sign and trade deal doesn't mean a thing without Hayward writing off on it.

I agree with this take and it's also what I said in my earlier response. I understand that it's possible that the deal could have been done if agreed upon earlier, but that would just be his agent doing a bad job. The CHA signing was discussed on the first night FA opened, it's not like it took a week. Just because Pritchard is salty that he didn't get his guy for ~$25M/yr early on in negotiations doesn't mean it was ever really on the table. I think it's pretty safe to say that if he had been willing to pay $120M for Hayward, Hayward would be in Indy right now. Good for Hayward and his agent (and so far CHA), bad for BOS and IND - it happens.

All we can do is speculate but I wouldn’t be surprised that Charlotte only upped their offer to a godfather offer when talks stalled with Indy. If C’s, Hayward and Pacers agreed from the get-go, I doubt it would’ve even occurred to the Hornets to swoop in.

Instead, what likely happened was Pacers didn’t want to overpay and Hayward was watching the money dry up. He didn’t want to get held hostage by these nego’s and likely reached out to teams again.

[RodyTur10]

This deal was never gonna happen, so I don't understand why it continues to get brought up. It wasn't in the Celtics' hands, so everyone on this thread is getting worked up over nothing.

The suggestion coming from Indy after the fact is that they would have gotten a deal done with GH, but Danny wouldn’t make a reasonable deal.  And, with the way this played out, that makes sense.  Early one, when trade negotiations started, Charlotte had other targets.

As they ended up trading Oladipo anyhow I'm surprised that ended up being a deal breaker.

Me too. Really weird stuff. Ainge not being satisfied with Turner + McDermott + 1st rounder for Gordon Hayward who was a threat to leave for nothing and Indiana insisting on Turner and keeping Oladipo unavailable, while trading him just a couple of weeks later for un inferior player in Levert.

A deal should have been made there and I'm fairly certain that Hayward would have signed in Indiana then. With Hayward that Pacers team would have been really good and a on completely different path than the Hornets who'll finish somewhere at the bottom of the conference.

As pointed out above by LilRip the sign-and-trade talks with Indiana didn't have any progress, so Hayward didn't want to wait any longer and lose all his other options and ending up stuck in Boston. Where Ainge really hoped to re-sign Hayward or get a great return for him, I think Hayward really wanted to leave the place that brought him so much misfortune and prolong his career elsewhere. That he (likely) agreed on a mutual beneficial back-up deal with Ainge was probably just Hayward being respectful to his employee.

[keevsnick]

Ya I don't think there's anyway to know the truth about what happened with the IND sign and trade. I see a lot of people saying that Hayward just took the most money. That may be true. I think its also possible he would have gone to IND for less but it became apparent Ainge wasn't gonna do an IND/Turner deal so Hayward moved on. Its also possible that if Ainge moved faster maybe the IND  deal gets done and CHA never ups their offer. My gut tells me if the Celtics had been willing to take Turner as the center piece than Hayward would be in IND. But I don't KNOW.

Whats more annoying to me is the Thompson deal. That 17/2 should have been used on a wing, and its more annoying because he doesn't REALLY address the main problem which is guarding larger bigs while he also blocks one of  our better prospects. We've got to hope his start has been a result of a short offseason and no camp because if he continues to play like he has we may have to pay to move off that deal next summer.

[Vermont Green]

In that Indy ended up trading Oladipo, I think it is fair to deduce that he could have been available to the Celtics.  Pre-Opt out, I forget exactly what Hayward had for a contract but it would have had to have been Oladipo and something for Hayward.  But even this, you can't say for sure.  They traded him for LeVert, a really nice young player on a competitive contract.

Anyway, if you want to assume that we could have gotten 1 year of Oladipo (before he signed with Miami), I guess  that is your theoretical missed opportunity.  But that would have been it likely.  He would have put us at a higher cap level and we could not have signed much else.  Instead we got Teague and Thompson and still potentially some additional help through TPEs.

I would have been OK if we ended up with 1 year of Oladipo but I don't see it as some major missed opportunity.  And more likely (at least in my mind), Turner and McDermott is the missed opportunity.  No one knows if Oladipo was actually offered.

[Roy H.]

I need to stop looking at box scores.  25 points, 6 blocks for Turner today.

[RodyTur10]

I need to stop looking at box scores.  25 points, 6 blocks for Turner today.

LOL. TP for your comfort.

Toronto defeated Indiana though. Expect the Raptors and the Heat to climb up in the standings, they're not out of the picture. I'm pretty sure that at the end of the season Bucks, 76ers, Nets, Pacers, Celtics, Hawks, Raptors and Heat will all fulfil their playoff expectations. That would be a strong group to enter the playoffs.

Only team that won't will be the Wizards, but they don't play defense and have their center out for the year.

[pearljammer10]

I need to stop looking at box scores.  25 points, 6 blocks for Turner today.

I know I’m beating a dead horse because I’ve said it a million times.... I can only imagine how excited I’d be if we had Turner and McDermott in green right now.

[NKY fan]

I need to stop looking at box scores.  25 points, 6 blocks for Turner today.

I know I’m beating a dead horse because I’ve said it a million times.... I can’t only imagine how excited I’d be if we had Turner and McDermott in green right now.

If Turner came to the Celtics in how many trade proposals on here his name would have been by now ? 🤣🤣😂

[Roy H.]

I need to stop looking at box scores.  25 points, 6 blocks for Turner today.

I know I’m beating a dead horse because I’ve said it a million times.... I can’t only imagine how excited I’d be if we had Turner and McDermott in green right now.

If Turner came to the Celtics in how many trade proposals on here his name would have been by now ? 🤣🤣😂

It depends on whether fans were looking at blocks or rebounds, ha ha.

[RodyTur10]

I need to stop looking at box scores.  25 points, 6 blocks for Turner today.

I know I’m beating a dead horse because I’ve said it a million times.... I can’t only imagine how excited I’d be if we had Turner and McDermott in green right now.

If Turner came to the Celtics in how many trade proposals on here his name would have been by now ? 🤣🤣😂

Turner has a good start of the season though. He would easily have been our best big right now and thus the 4th best player on the roster so far. But yeah, when Embiid would have gone of for his 40/15 against Turner, the trading proposals would arise  .

[gouki88]

Myles Turner is the exact same player this year that he always is. He's blocking better, shooting the 3 abhorrently, and showing the ever-present inability to rebound and pass. He's fouling more, but that's probably an extension of his block-hunting. His lack of improvement would kill people around here.

[Roy H.]

Myles Turner is the exact same player this year that he always is. He's blocking better, shooting the 3 abhorrently, and showing the ever-present inability to rebound and pass. He's fouling more, but that's probably an extension of his block-hunting. His lack of improvement would kill people around here.

Career highs in blocks, steals, 2p%, and eFG%.  His turnover rate is a career low.

And, his 3PT% isn’t abhorrent; it’s 33.3%, which equates to 50% efficiency.  That’s fairly impressive, since he started the year 1-for-12.