CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eddie20 on September 11, 2018, 01:49:18 PM

Title: Kyrie update
Post by: Eddie20 on September 11, 2018, 01:49:18 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h1YXC2hX4a4

Also from Chris Mannix
From someone at the recent star-studded workout in Miami, Kyrie Irving looked "amazing." No restrictions, played for two straight days.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: SparzWizard on September 11, 2018, 01:50:36 PM
Expecting him to light up the 76ers on opening night then.

If the 76ers couldn't handle Boston without two of their big stars plus Daniel Theis (oh yeah, any update on him?), then they will get demolished when these guys return!
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Donoghus on September 11, 2018, 02:14:21 PM
I just want this team to be healthy for '18-19. 

There is nothing more I want to see than this team firing on all cylinders for an entire season & playoffs. 
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: nickagneta on September 11, 2018, 02:19:29 PM
Expecting him to light up the 76ers on opening night then.

If the 76ers couldn't handle Boston without two of their big stars plus Daniel Theis (oh yeah, any update on him?), then they will get demolished when these guys return!
Saw quotes from Stevens a couple days ago where he said Hayward's clearance to go 5 on 5 was imminent, like he expected it to possibly happen maybe even the next day, and Theis would have the okay before training camp started.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 11, 2018, 03:16:29 PM
That has to be at least 3 weeks old by now (maybe older, can't remember)? Kyrie is ready!! Let's go!
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on September 11, 2018, 04:31:32 PM
Little Mountain has some BIG things to do this season in Green.

He (and Gordon Hayward) have some unfinished business.....

LET'S GO!!!!
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: smokeablount on September 11, 2018, 05:17:23 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: gouki88 on September 11, 2018, 07:33:02 PM
That offbalance falling-away left handed runner-type shot was ridiculous, lol
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 11, 2018, 07:49:35 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: hpantazo on September 11, 2018, 07:56:51 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

Let's wait and see how they each look this season before claiming that.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: jpotter33 on September 11, 2018, 08:02:03 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: csfansince60s on September 12, 2018, 12:31:16 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

Tp.

I agree.

His versatility combined with his talent is impressive.

Can shoot like crazy, finish really strongly, can run the offense through him and play heart D with way more athleticism (hopefully still there) than many think......complete, highly skilled player.

[dang]...what could’ve been last year.

Oh well, on to 18!
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Hoopvortex on September 12, 2018, 12:51:16 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian

I say it was Al Horford last year - but next year it will be Jayson Tatum.

Who’s the “best” is less interesting than how the team fits together to win, though. Horford, Tatum, and Hayward may be “better” than Irving - they are, as far as it goes - but no one on the team, and few in the league, can do as well as he does what he does well. He is a wizard with the ball, can get anywhere on the floor; creates shots for himself and others at a high clip with low turnovers; is a productive shooter in the lane and from the arc - and has few peers from long midrange.

He might be a minus defender, but he led the best defensive team in the league in minutes.

Kyrie is the Celtics’ best offensive player - again, for what it’s worth.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: gouki88 on September 12, 2018, 02:49:59 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian
This made me audibly laugh hard, TP.

I think Hayward has a legit argument at being better than Kyrie, simply because he's so well-rounded. But ultimately I think Kyrie is our best player, considering he's one of the most talented offensive players in the league.

Now let's wait for points per shot stats to come flying ;)
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Androslav on September 12, 2018, 04:20:50 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian
This made me audibly laugh hard, TP.

I think Hayward has a legit argument at being better than Kyrie, simply because he's so well-rounded. But ultimately I think Kyrie is our best player, considering he's one of the most talented offensive players in the league.

Now let's wait for points per shot stats to come flying ;)
No stats are necessary.
Kyrie didn't make Anthony Bennett better and we are talking about the 1st pick in the draft.
If he had a different PG beside him - watch out!
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 12, 2018, 05:56:45 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian
that is pretty funny, but I've been saying it since they both arrived, Hayward is a better player than Irving.  Irving has been greatly overrated on this board.  It isn't surprising, but it also doesn't make his supposed greatness true.  Heck, last year the major sites said Hayward was better as well (though I suspect they will have Irving better this year just because of the Hayward injury). 
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: A Future of Stevens on September 12, 2018, 05:57:02 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.
Nope.  Hayward is the Celtics best player.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contrarian
This made me audibly laugh hard, TP.

I think Hayward has a legit argument at being better than Kyrie, simply because he's so well-rounded. But ultimately I think Kyrie is our best player, considering he's one of the most talented offensive players in the league.

Now let's wait for points per shot stats to come flying ;)
No stats are necessary.
Kyrie didn't make Anthony Bennett better and we are talking about the 1st pick in the draft.
If he had a different PG beside him - watch out!

Well played good sir.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Big333223 on September 13, 2018, 12:30:35 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.

I can't wait.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: tenn_smoothie on September 13, 2018, 07:50:47 PM
I simply want a healthy team that plays well together on both ends and wins multiple banners during the next decade.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Hoopvortex on September 13, 2018, 08:26:28 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.


Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Androslav on September 14, 2018, 06:25:51 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
We don't need him to be the best player, we want to be the best team.
Teams win chips, players just win accolades.

Mike was the best player in the league '88-'90 and it didn't mean anything regarding the rings.
RW was the MVP 2 years ago and they lasted 5 playoff games.

Give me the best team (coaches, starters, bench) and I won't ask for anything more.
Kyrie can be the 35th player then.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: gouki88 on September 14, 2018, 07:06:28 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 08:18:02 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving. 
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: gouki88 on September 14, 2018, 08:20:27 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.
And? LeBron and Durant are better players than Harden.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 08:25:42 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.
And? LeBron and Durant are better players than Harden.
Lebron and Durant aren't on Harden's team.  Strange you don't see that correlation.  After all it isn't a coincidence that the defending 2 time MVP and first unanimous MVP in NBA history hasn't won the award since another top 5 player joined his team (who mind you was a former MVP and hasn't sniffed the award since either). 
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: gouki88 on September 14, 2018, 09:09:40 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.
And? LeBron and Durant are better players than Harden.
Lebron and Durant aren't on Harden's team.  Strange you don't see that correlation.  After all it isn't a coincidence that the defending 2 time MVP and first unanimous MVP in NBA history hasn't won the award since another top 5 player joined his team (who mind you was a former MVP and hasn't sniffed the award since either).
That isn't the point I was trying to make. I thought that was obvious.

You're implying that the best player will naturally lead the MVP race. I disagree with that, as things like defence are incredibly underrated
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Big333223 on September 14, 2018, 09:18:06 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 09:49:55 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on). 
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: smokeablount on September 14, 2018, 09:52:53 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

You've used an 8th place finish in MVP voting to support a player's legitimacy before, I don't remember if it was Davis or Kawhi.  Using your top 8 finish as precedent, we can dispel this.

Kyrie was top 5-7 last year when healthy and if Hayward or Al get injured he could easily be in that range again if healthy even if he doesn't get better than last year, so yeah, I disagree.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 10:30:33 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

You've used an 8th place finish in MVP voting to support a player's legitimacy before, I don't remember if it was Davis or Kawhi.  Using your top 8 finish as precedent, we can dispel this.

Kyrie was top 5-7 last year when healthy and if Hayward or Al get injured he could easily be in that range again if healthy even if he doesn't get better than last year, so yeah, I disagree.
well sure if Hayward gets injured again, then yeah Irving would have a shot, but I'm not going to assume that Hayward gets injured again, especially when past history says it will be Irving missing time and not Hayward.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Big333223 on September 14, 2018, 11:15:14 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.[/]  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Kyrie's injury this past season wasn't a break, it was an infection. The only thing he's recovering from is the surgery.

If you want to say Kyrie is more likely to get a new injury, given his history, I would agree with that. But in terms of recovery, Hayward's path has been much longer, more arduous, and more likely to affect his play in the short term.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 11:30:10 AM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.[/]  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Kyrie's injury this past season wasn't a break, it was an infection. The only thing he's recovering from is the surgery.

If you want to say Kyrie is more likely to get a new injury, given his history, I would agree with that. But in terms of recovery, Hayward's path has been much longer, more arduous, and more likely to affect his play in the short term.
Yeah that was my point.  A clean break of a bone is a much easier injury to come back from then a non-break.  It may take a bit longer to heal with a bone break, but it is in fact easier to get back to 100% from.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Hoopvortex on September 14, 2018, 02:33:25 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
We don't need him to be the best player, we want to be the best team.
Teams win chips, players just win accolades.

Mike was the best player in the league '88-'90 and it didn't mean anything regarding the rings.
RW was the MVP 2 years ago and they lasted 5 playoff games.

Give me the best team (coaches, starters, bench) and I won't ask for anything more.
Kyrie can be the 35th player then.

Exactly what I think.  And by the way, 35th sounds about right.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Big333223 on September 14, 2018, 04:36:18 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.[/]  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Kyrie's injury this past season wasn't a break, it was an infection. The only thing he's recovering from is the surgery.

If you want to say Kyrie is more likely to get a new injury, given his history, I would agree with that. But in terms of recovery, Hayward's path has been much longer, more arduous, and more likely to affect his play in the short term.
Yeah that was my point.  A clean break of a bone is a much easier injury to come back from then a non-break. It may take a bit longer to heal with a bone break, but it is in fact easier to get back to 100% from.

I'm not a doctor but I feel very confident that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Breaking a bone is not easier to come back from than every non-break injury a person could have.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Moranis on September 14, 2018, 07:55:59 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.[/]  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Kyrie's injury this past season wasn't a break, it was an infection. The only thing he's recovering from is the surgery.

If you want to say Kyrie is more likely to get a new injury, given his history, I would agree with that. But in terms of recovery, Hayward's path has been much longer, more arduous, and more likely to affect his play in the short term.
Yeah that was my point.  A clean break of a bone is a much easier injury to come back from then a non-break. It may take a bit longer to heal with a bone break, but it is in fact easier to get back to 100% from.

I'm not a doctor but I feel very confident that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Breaking a bone is not easier to come back from than every non-break injury a person could have.
of course not every nonbreak. That would be silly but we are talking about Hayward and Irving's injuries
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: Hoopvortex on September 17, 2018, 01:38:19 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.[/]  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Kyrie's injury this past season wasn't a break, it was an infection. The only thing he's recovering from is the surgery.

If you want to say Kyrie is more likely to get a new injury, given his history, I would agree with that. But in terms of recovery, Hayward's path has been much longer, more arduous, and more likely to affect his play in the short term.
Yeah that was my point.  A clean break of a bone is a much easier injury to come back from then a non-break. It may take a bit longer to heal with a bone break, but it is in fact easier to get back to 100% from.

I'm not a doctor but I feel very confident that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Breaking a bone is not easier to come back from than every non-break injury a person could have.
of course not every nonbreak. That would be silly but we are talking about Hayward and Irving's injuries

I think it's possible that you guys are talking past each other to some extent. "Recovery" and "Risk of Recurrence" are separate though connected issues.

Hayward's injury was about as drastic as it gets, and it's only now that he's getting ready to get back to playing pro basketball. Kyrie played 60 some games last year and is getting back to playing pro basketball.

Irving's surgery was to deal with the problems of a previous injury and surgery, though; given that, the likelihood of further problems down the road is increased. And, it's the knee joint, which is the most vulnerable joint for basketball players, who are changing direction all the time, etc.

So, longer recovery for Hayward; greater risk of recurrent problems for Kyrie.
Title: Re: Kyrie update
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on September 17, 2018, 01:45:27 PM
Best player on a 60 win team for the first time his career this year!

If he stays with the Celtics, there will be more.

I think we're going to hear a lot of Kyrie's name in the MVP discussions this year.


I have my doubts - but I can see a pathway to it. Voters are likely to consider the top scorer on a 60+ win team to be 'in the discussion'.

The knee has to hold up...

He won't be the best player on the Celtics, though.
He was routinely in the running for MVP race according to NBA.com throughout last year when he was healthy, around 5 or so. So if he returns to that level of play, he most likely will be (assuming we win, which we will ;) )
Hayward didn't play though and Hayward is better than Irving.

Putting aside the question of who is better, Kyrie's style has resulted in more personal accolades than Hayward even though Hayward was always the #1 on his team and Kyrie wasn't for a lot of his time in Cleveland. Based just on that,  Kyrie is more likely to be in the MVP conversation.

And of the two injuries, Hayward's is going to be harder to come back from.
I don't disagree with much of this, but neither one is going to come all that close to winning the MVP.  I do disagree with the injury harder to come back from.  Irving's is far more likely to be recurring and have problems.  First, because it a knee has injured a lot.  Second, because it is a knee.  Third, because it wasn't a clean break.[/]  It may take Hayward a bit longer to round into full playing shape (MAY), but I think he is much more likely to eventually return to 100% than Irving.  In fact, I expect Irving to have knee issues for the rest of his career (at least off and on).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Kyrie's injury this past season wasn't a break, it was an infection. The only thing he's recovering from is the surgery.

If you want to say Kyrie is more likely to get a new injury, given his history, I would agree with that. But in terms of recovery, Hayward's path has been much longer, more arduous, and more likely to affect his play in the short term.
Yeah that was my point.  A clean break of a bone is a much easier injury to come back from then a non-break. It may take a bit longer to heal with a bone break, but it is in fact easier to get back to 100% from.

I'm not a doctor but I feel very confident that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Breaking a bone is not easier to come back from than every non-break injury a person could have.
of course not every nonbreak. That would be silly but we are talking about Hayward and Irving's injuries

I think it's possible that you guys are talking past each other to some extent. "Recovery" and "Risk of Recurrence" are separate though connected issues.

Hayward's injury was about as drastic as it gets, and it's only now that he's getting ready to get back to playing pro basketball. Kyrie played 60 some games last year and is getting back to playing pro basketball.

Irving's surgery was to deal with the problems of a previous injury and surgery, though; given that, the likelihood of further problems down the road is increased. And, it's the knee joint, which is the most vulnerable joint for basketball players, who are changing direction all the time, etc.

So, longer recovery for Hayward; greater risk of recurrent problems for Kyrie.


Kyrie didn't suffer any injury, that first surgery was to remove the screws/wiring, then they tested them and found the infection. Aside from the infection he was structurally sound and would have been back on the court.