Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million

[keevsnick]

So its 115/4, with 103 guaranteed, 4 million in "likely" incentives and 8 million in "unlikely" incentives. Really its 107/4 for cap purposes. Jaylen's max this summer would have been 130/4 from the Celtics or 125/4 from anybody else. So really you are getting a 6 million dollar a year discount if he maxes out. His worst case scenario was probably Harrison Barnes money which was 85/4, thats if he stagnated this season. Essentially the number was right between those two points. Seems fair.

Also no team or player options.

Also, this basically means Jaylen can't be traded this season because of poison pill provision (makes it hard to match salaries) Its gonna be nice to not have a million "Trade Jaylen for x" arguments."

Makes you think about Haywards long term future here. This year isnt a problem obviously, next year Hayward has a 34 million dollar player option which unless he is 100% back he is going to pick up (maybe not even then, most team with cap space netx summer are bad team he won't wnat to go to). Of course next year isnt a huge issue either cuz Tatum is still on his rookie deal, after that option year tho hard to see all three of Hawyard, tatum, brown back. Would seem to make Hayward a trade piece tis year or next if he opts in.

[footey]

Both sides compromised to get this done. Celtics paid more than his performance to date, Jaylen took less than he was likely going to command next off season.  Plus if went into FA, he would like negotiate an opt out after 3 years.  This locks him in longer term, and  also makes his contract more valuable in a future trade, although I hope we never do trade him.

This also shows Ainge's confidence in the current players he has as components of a team that can compete for a championship, maybe not this year, but eventually.  Which is not to say he has all the pieces, he doesn't.   But feel very good today, both for the team management and Jaylen.  Good for him.

[mmmmm]

Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

It seems like a lot I know. 

But if he gets a max offer then we are at 170 for 5 right?  So there is some savings if DA really thinks that Jaylen was going to get a full 5 year max after this year.

well really you are comparing the first 4 years. If the Celtics waited till next offseason the max they could offer (at the current projected cap number) would have been 130/4.

oh ok, I didn't know it would only be 4 years max if another team offered in RFA...
so still saving a little bit, 3.75 million a year.

This is not quite correct.

If Brown and the Celtics had waited for him to reach Restricted Free Agency next Summer, then the most any _other_ team could have offered him would have been a 4 year deal with a max Base Year Compensation of 25% of the salary cap and 5% x BYC raises.  With a cap estimate of 116M, that would be a total package of 120M over 4 years.

But the Celtics themselves still could have offered a 5 year, 25% Max with 8% raises.  That would be a 154M package over 5 years.

All those numbers are moot now, of course.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers, at the 116 million cap for the Celtics a five year max would have been 5/170. A four year max 130. And for anyone else a 4 year max would have been 125.

Example 4 year max:

year one: 29
year two: 31.32
year three: 33.82
year four: 36.53
total: just over 130 million

let:
Base Year Compensation = BYC = 25% * 116M = 29M
Non-Bird raise = nbr = .05*29 = 1.45M
So:
year 1 = BYC = 29M
year 2 = 29M + 1.45M = 30.45M
year 3 = 30.45M + 1.45M = 31.90M
year 4 = 31.90M + 1.45M = 33.35M
Total = 124.7M

For a Bird-rights contract, change the raise percentage to .08% of BYC, or 2.32M and set the max years to 5.

The mistake most make is that the raises each year are not compounded.  The raise is calculated as a percentage of the BYC and then added on each year.  Note - these are just the parameters around max raises in a contract.  A contract can also give smaller raises or even declines (though the percentage decline is also limited to be by the same percentage of BYC).

I think your point is that the in non-bird max is 125/4, which is correct. I was using the Celtics bird-max of 130/4 because its the celtics paying him in this case.

But I just want to point out that the numbers you just came up above are different than the ones in  your original post where you cite 120 million. Also your 154 million number is wrong, its 170/4.

My main point was that the Celtics could still have offered a 5 year deal next summer, while other teams could only offer a 4 year.

The 120M and 154M numbers I tossed out were based on mental math.  Mea culpa.  I'm getting too old and senile and should know better.

Let's do the Bird-Rights calculation (the maximums the Celtics could have offered next Summer):

BYC = 25% of 116M = 29M
raise = .08 * 29 = 2.32M
year 1 = 29M
year 2 = 29 + 2.32 = 31.32M
year 3 = 31.32 + 2.32 = 33.64M
year 4 = 33.64+2.32 = 35.96M
year 5 = 35.96 + 2.32 = 38.28M
Total for 4 years = 29+31.32+33.64+35.96 = 129.92M.
Total for 5 years = 168.2M

[mmmmm]

So its 115/4, with 103 guaranteed, 4 million in "likely" incentives and 8 million in "unlikely" incentives. Really its 107/4 for cap purposes. Jaylen's max this summer would have been 130/4 from the Celtics or 125/4 from anybody else. So really you are getting a 6 million dollar a year discount if he maxes out. His worst case scenario was probably Harrison Barnes money which was 85/4, thats if he stagnated this season. Essentially the number was right between those two points. Seems fair.

Also no team or player options.

Also, this basically means Jaylen can't be traded this season because of poison pill provision (makes it hard to match salaries) Its gonna be nice to not have a million "Trade Jaylen for x" arguments."

Jaylen can't be traded this season but not because of poison pill provision.   It's because when an extension adds on more than 3 years and/or has larger than 5% raises (i.e., non-Bird) then the waiting period before that player can be traded is 6 months.   

(Extensions of 3 year or less and with raises of 5% or less have just a 3-month waiting period)

At this point, that 6 month threshold would be after the February trading deadline so, effectively that means Jaylen cannot be traded until next summer, after the moratorium.

EDIT:  Correction - the 6 month limit may not apply to rookie extensions.  So the poison pill provision becomes the restricting factor.

[droopdog7]

I mean, that's what contracts are in the NBA.  I always been rather bearish on Brown but if the alternative was losing him for nothing and a year of distractions, then I'm good with it.

And won't Hayward's contract be done after next year at the latest?  So that should give some room to sign Tatum.

[Walker Wiggle]

Something that recently came to mind is how the Jazz handled Hayward when he was finishing his rookie deal. At the time — like Jaylen — there was a healthy debate as to whether or not Hayward deserved a max 2nd contract. Utah balked at extending him at max money, and they retained him only after he signed a max offer sheet elsewhere (I think Charlotte). Years later, when he signed with the Celtics, some journalists reported that that episode with the Jazz soured him on the franchise, and he never forgot.

Does this guarantee Jaylen’s loyalty to the franchise beyond this deal? Of course not. But it also has the added benefit of creating goodwill between the organization and the player, both for this season and beyond.

[saltlover]

I mean, that's what contracts are in the NBA.  I always been rather bearish on Brown but if the alternative was losing him for nothing and a year of distractions, then I'm good with it.

And won't Hayward's contract be done after next year at the latest?  So that should give some room to sign Tatum.

Correct.  Tatum and Hayward will have new contracts at the same time.  I think there are three likely possibilities with Hayward that don’t involved of a trade of one of Hayward, Tatum, and Brown:

1) Hayward walks.
2) Hayward resigns at a $10-15 million/year number, because his quality of play just isn’t what it was due to the injury.
3) Hayward resigns with a Celtics at near-max/max money, because he’s gotten back his old form.  Having star-level Hayward makes the Celtics a legit contender and ownership is thus willing to eat some luxury tax.

[cman88]

whether they overpaid or not, you dont invest that much capitol in a player draft him 3rd and let him walk for nothing.

hes only 22, people here act like he cant improve as a player. 

[Fan from VT]

Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

It seems like a lot I know. 

But if he gets a max offer then we are at 170 for 5 right?  So there is some savings if DA really thinks that Jaylen was going to get a full 5 year max after this year.

well really you are comparing the first 4 years. If the Celtics waited till next offseason the max they could offer (at the current projected cap number) would have been 130/4.

oh ok, I didn't know it would only be 4 years max if another team offered in RFA...
so still saving a little bit, 3.75 million a year.

This is not quite correct.

If Brown and the Celtics had waited for him to reach Restricted Free Agency next Summer, then the most any _other_ team could have offered him would have been a 4 year deal with a max Base Year Compensation of 25% of the salary cap and 5% x BYC raises.  With a cap estimate of 116M, that would be a total package of 120M over 4 years.

But the Celtics themselves still could have offered a 5 year, 25% Max with 8% raises.  That would be a 154M package over 5 years.

All those numbers are moot now, of course.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers, at the 116 million cap for the Celtics a five year max would have been 5/170. A four year max 130. And for anyone else a 4 year max would have been 125.

Example 4 year max:

year one: 29
year two: 31.32
year three: 33.82
year four: 36.53
total: just over 130 million

let:
Base Year Compensation = BYC = 25% * 116M = 29M
Non-Bird raise = nbr = .05*29 = 1.45M
So:
year 1 = BYC = 29M
year 2 = 29M + 1.45M = 30.45M
year 3 = 30.45M + 1.45M = 31.90M
year 4 = 31.90M + 1.45M = 33.35M
Total = 124.7M

For a Bird-rights contract, change the raise percentage to .08% of BYC, or 2.32M and set the max years to 5.

The mistake most make is that the raises each year are not compounded.  The raise is calculated as a percentage of the BYC and then added on each year.  Note - these are just the parameters around max raises in a contract.  A contract can also give smaller raises or even declines (though the percentage decline is also limited to be by the same percentage of BYC).

I think your point is that the in non-bird max is 125/4, which is correct. I was using the Celtics bird-max of 130/4 because its the celtics paying him in this case.

But I just want to point out that the numbers you just came up above are different than the ones in  your original post where you cite 120 million. Also your 154 million number is wrong, its 170/4.

My main point was that the Celtics could still have offered a 5 year deal next summer, while other teams could only offer a 4 year.

The 120M and 154M numbers I tossed out were based on mental math.  Mea culpa.  I'm getting too old and senile and should know better.

Let's do the Bird-Rights calculation (the maximums the Celtics could have offered next Summer):

BYC = 25% of 116M = 29M
raise = .08 * 29 = 2.32M
year 1 = 29M
year 2 = 29 + 2.32 = 31.32M
year 3 = 31.32 + 2.32 = 33.64M
year 4 = 33.64+2.32 = 35.96M
year 5 = 35.96 + 2.32 = 38.28M
Total for 4 years = 29+31.32+33.64+35.96 = 129.92M.
Total for 5 years = 168.2M

Yeah, 5 years 170 is what jamal murray’s contract extension was reported as.

[IDreamCeltics]

Gotta give credit where credit is due... Kudos to Brown for taking below market value to stick with the team who drafted him.

[Boris Badenov]

Ainge may have been willing to pay a small premium now for (a) peace of mind on his part after seeing his best players walk in summer 2019, (b) avoiding team chemistry distractions this year around JB heading into free agency, and (c) letting the young guys know he's betting on them.

Seems worth it to me, if this all added up to what, $4 million extra per year? (Compared to 4/84, which would have been viewed as a bargain I think by most observers).

[Who]

Ainge did not pay a premium. He got Jaylen on a contract that is less than Jaylen is worth (the max). He saved the team $15mil over 4 years with this contract.

Great business for the Celtics. Not so much for Jaylen. He left a lot of money on the table.

[mmmmm]

Ainge did not pay a premium. He got Jaylen on a contract that is less than Jaylen is worth (the max). He saved the team $15mil over 4 years with this contract.

Great business for the Celtics. Not so much for Jaylen. He left a lot of money on the table.

Yeah, but leaving that money on the table may be worth it to avoid playing the season with his free agency hanging over him.   He did, after all, get to see how last year played out for Kyrie and Rozier.

This way, he can 'just hoop'.

[Rosco917]

Wow!  I hope he has impressed the team a lot this training camp.  Even more, I hope he improves his ball handling, decision making, and free throw shooting and lives up to this contract.

Agree ^ I think Danny paid for future potential. I hope he's right.

[Neurotic Guy]

Sorry if this has either been addressed in the thread or if it’s obvious and I am just a bonehead - but this is an extension , right?  As in - it kicks in after this year and his rookie deal ends - it doesn’t start this season. 

Either way, I am thrilled he’s here and we won’t have hear RFA worries all season.