Author Topic: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million  (Read 13344 times)

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Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2019, 04:59:19 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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That's a lot of money for a guy who has yet to play at a high enough level to justify that money.


Still, Ainge is pretty good about these things, he doesn't give out contracts that end up being bad 3-4 years down the line.

Jaylen will be a tradeable asset.
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Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2019, 05:01:53 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Jay King reports $103m guaranteed, with $4m in likely bonuses and $8m in unlikely.

https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1186386145925570561

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2019, 05:03:12 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

It seems like a lot I know. 

But if he gets a max offer then we are at 170 for 5 right?  So there is some savings if DA really thinks that Jaylen was going to get a full 5 year max after this year.

well really you are comparing the first 4 years. If the Celtics waited till next offseason the max they could offer (at the current projected cap number) would have been 130/4.

oh ok, I didn't know it would only be 4 years max if another team offered in RFA...
so still saving a little bit, 3.75 million a year.

This is not quite correct.

If Brown and the Celtics had waited for him to reach Restricted Free Agency next Summer, then the most any _other_ team could have offered him would have been a 4 year deal with a max Base Year Compensation of 25% of the salary cap and 5% x BYC raises.  With a cap estimate of 116M, that would be a total package of 120M over 4 years.

But the Celtics themselves still could have offered a 5 year, 25% Max with 8% raises.  That would be a 154M package over 5 years.

All those numbers are moot now, of course.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers, at the 116 million cap for the Celtics a five year max would have been 5/170. A four year max 130. And for anyone else a 4 year max would have been 125.

Example 4 year max:

year one: 29
year two: 31.32
year three: 33.64
year four: 35.96
total: just under 130 million
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 05:11:01 PM by keevsnick »

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2019, 05:04:03 PM »

Offline blink

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Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

It seems like a lot I know. 

But if he gets a max offer then we are at 170 for 5 right?  So there is some savings if DA really thinks that Jaylen was going to get a full 5 year max after this year.

well really you are comparing the first 4 years. If the Celtics waited till next offseason the max they could offer (at the current projected cap number) would have been 130/4.

oh ok, I didn't know it would only be 4 years max if another team offered in RFA...
so still saving a little bit, 3.75 million a year.

This is not quite correct.

If Brown and the Celtics had waited for him to reach Restricted Free Agency next Summer, then the most any _other_ team could have offered him would have been a 4 year deal with a max Base Year Compensation of 25% of the salary cap and 5% x BYC raises.  With a cap estimate of 116M, that would be a total package of 120M over 4 years.

But the Celtics themselves still could have offered a 5 year, 25% Max with 8% raises.  That would be a 154M package over 5 years.

All those numbers are moot now, of course.

hey thanks for the clarification. 

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2019, 05:11:16 PM »

Offline colincb

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It's a $107MM in guaranteed money and likely bonuses. Brown would be the top player available next summer. It seems fair enough. Unlikely that he could be traded B4 the extension kicks in and the Cs won't be playing in free agency next summer either are the other ramifications of this signing.

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2019, 05:15:14 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Haven’t read the whole thread so perhaps this sentiment has been expressed: 
It seems like a lot of money for a guy at his productivity level, but just think about the opposite scenario where Jaylen Brown improves to all-star level in a couple of years.  In that case, the number is going to look pretty good.

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2019, 05:19:59 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

It seems like a lot I know. 

But if he gets a max offer then we are at 170 for 5 right?  So there is some savings if DA really thinks that Jaylen was going to get a full 5 year max after this year.

well really you are comparing the first 4 years. If the Celtics waited till next offseason the max they could offer (at the current projected cap number) would have been 130/4.

oh ok, I didn't know it would only be 4 years max if another team offered in RFA...
so still saving a little bit, 3.75 million a year.

This is not quite correct.

If Brown and the Celtics had waited for him to reach Restricted Free Agency next Summer, then the most any _other_ team could have offered him would have been a 4 year deal with a max Base Year Compensation of 25% of the salary cap and 5% x BYC raises.  With a cap estimate of 116M, that would be a total package of 120M over 4 years.

But the Celtics themselves still could have offered a 5 year, 25% Max with 8% raises.  That would be a 154M package over 5 years.

All those numbers are moot now, of course.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers, at the 116 million cap for the Celtics a five year max would have been 5/170. A four year max 130. And for anyone else a 4 year max would have been 125.

Example 4 year max:

year one: 29
year two: 31.32
year three: 33.82
year four: 36.53
total: just over 130 million
let:
Base Year Compensation = BYC = 25% * 116M = 29M
Non-Bird raise = nbr = .05*29 = 1.45M
So:
year 1 = BYC = 29M
year 2 = 29M + 1.45M = 30.45M
year 3 = 30.45M + 1.45M = 31.90M
year 4 = 31.90M + 1.45M = 33.35M
Total = 124.7M

For a Bird-rights contract, change the raise percentage to .08% of BYC, or 2.32M and set the max years to 5.

The mistake most make is that the raises each year are not compounded.  The raise is calculated as a percentage of the BYC and then added on each year.  Note - these are just the parameters around max raises in a contract.  A contract can also give smaller raises or even declines (though the percentage decline is also limited to be by the same percentage of BYC).
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Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2019, 05:21:48 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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So Gordon Hayward is gone then it seems


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2019, 05:22:17 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

IMO Brown earned the c’s commitment.
Glad to have this out of the way.

C’s are going to beat expectations this season.
Brown is going to be a major reason why.

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2019, 05:24:34 PM »

Offline footey

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Awesome!!!

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2019, 05:24:52 PM »

Offline footey

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So Gordon Hayward is gone then it seems

??

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2019, 05:27:36 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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That's a lot of money for a guy who has yet to play at a high enough level to justify that money.


Still, Ainge is pretty good about these things, he doesn't give out contracts that end up being bad 3-4 years down the line.

Jaylen will be a tradeable asset.
I have a long memory of this stuff. The Dee Brown, Dino Radja and Mark Blount extensions all looked great the day they were signed.  Hopefully this one turns out better, though Jaylen right now is better than all of those guys.

My concern is they're paying him to be an all star.

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2019, 05:32:38 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Don’t know that we had a choice really. Hopefully Brown proves to be worth it.

IDK, man.

If we are willing to shell that for Jaylen, wouldn't it be better if we just have him test the RFA market and match any offer?

A bad/mediocre team with cap space would have offered him max in all likelihood.

In which case, we should just match. If we are willing to go $115 million, surely we can go for the max if it comes to that.

The flip side, is if the market is soft on him, we could get him for his fair value.

IDK. I mean, I'm stoked that we are keeping Jaylen, but man, I think we could have played the negotiations better.

It seems like a lot I know. 

But if he gets a max offer then we are at 170 for 5 right?  So there is some savings if DA really thinks that Jaylen was going to get a full 5 year max after this year.

well really you are comparing the first 4 years. If the Celtics waited till next offseason the max they could offer (at the current projected cap number) would have been 130/4.

oh ok, I didn't know it would only be 4 years max if another team offered in RFA...
so still saving a little bit, 3.75 million a year.

This is not quite correct.

If Brown and the Celtics had waited for him to reach Restricted Free Agency next Summer, then the most any _other_ team could have offered him would have been a 4 year deal with a max Base Year Compensation of 25% of the salary cap and 5% x BYC raises.  With a cap estimate of 116M, that would be a total package of 120M over 4 years.

But the Celtics themselves still could have offered a 5 year, 25% Max with 8% raises.  That would be a 154M package over 5 years.

All those numbers are moot now, of course.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers, at the 116 million cap for the Celtics a five year max would have been 5/170. A four year max 130. And for anyone else a 4 year max would have been 125.

Example 4 year max:

year one: 29
year two: 31.32
year three: 33.82
year four: 36.53
total: just over 130 million
let:
Base Year Compensation = BYC = 25% * 116M = 29M
Non-Bird raise = nbr = .05*29 = 1.45M
So:
year 1 = BYC = 29M
year 2 = 29M + 1.45M = 30.45M
year 3 = 30.45M + 1.45M = 31.90M
year 4 = 31.90M + 1.45M = 33.35M
Total = 124.7M

For a Bird-rights contract, change the raise percentage to .08% of BYC, or 2.32M and set the max years to 5.

The mistake most make is that the raises each year are not compounded.  The raise is calculated as a percentage of the BYC and then added on each year.  Note - these are just the parameters around max raises in a contract.  A contract can also give smaller raises or even declines (though the percentage decline is also limited to be by the same percentage of BYC).

I think your point is that the in non-bird max is 125/4, which is correct. I was using the Celtics bird-max of 130/4 because its the celtics paying him in this case.

But I just want to point out that the numbers you just came up above are different than the ones in  your original post where you cite 120 million. Also your 154 million number is wrong, its 170/4.


« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 05:38:26 PM by keevsnick »

Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2019, 05:34:31 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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the contract is even a bit less than we may have thought....

Jay King

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Jaylen Brown’s four-year contract extension has $103 million in guaranteed money, per source. Another $4 million in likely incentives, plus $8 million in unlikely incentives.

437
3:57 PM - Oct 21, 2019

oh, and neither a player nor team option was included.

EDIT: dang, beaten to this. oh well, maybe a few posters have short memory spans.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 05:39:59 PM by hwangjini_1 »
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Re: Brown, Celtics agree on 4 years-115 million
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2019, 05:38:55 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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the contract is even a bit less than we may have thought....

Jay King

@ByJayKing
Jaylen Brown’s four-year contract extension has $103 million in guaranteed money, per source. Another $4 million in likely incentives, plus $8 million in unlikely incentives.

437
3:57 PM - Oct 21, 2019

oh, and neither a player nor team option was included.
Safe to say they've committed to Jaylen as the foundation of this team along with Kemba.