Rotation that we are rooting for

[No Nickname]

All I know is I hope Boston adds another big man because when trying to come up with a big rotation you realize just how terrible the bigs are on this team.  I mean you have Tatum or Hayward playing out of position at the 4 being backed up by Semi or a rookie in Grant Williams.  Then at center, you have Kanter being backed up by R. Williams and Theis.  Both of those are real problems.  Unless Boston fixes that, I don't think expecting even a 1st round playoff series win is to be expected (certainly could happen, but shouldn't be expected).  The team quite simply is far too small and far too young down low to really be expected to do much of anything.

This is why I have to assume we're waiting on the moratorium on trades of recently signed players to be over.  Or for Ainge to wait to see what veteran bigs get cut after training camp (some always do) or look to be traded. 

If we can see it, Ainge surely can see it.  There's gotta be a move he's waiting on.

[RodyTur10]

The rotation that I root for needs balance. Enough ball handling, scoring, shooting, defense, size and rebounding. That's not an easy task with this Celtics roster. The best players are almost all guards and wings. There's enough scoring and rebounding can be adressed with the centers. But defense is an issue and especially, since the temptation is there to play too small, which we should absolutely avoid.

After some puzzling I found this to be the best starting unit:

PG: Kemba Walker
SG: Jaylen Brown
SF: Jayson Tatum
PF: Grant Williams
C:  Vincent Poirier

Three legit scoring options (Walker, Brown, Tatum) adding more and we'd have the same problem as this year: not enough shots to get everybody in a rhytm. Walker and G.Williams are undersized, but overall it's okay. Poirier should be an excellent rebounder and a fine rim protector (theoretically I'd prefer Robert Williams, but unfortunately I think he needs some games in the G-league to grow). We don't have a clear starting PF, so hopefully Grant Williams can hold his own by using his BBIQ to do the little things.

So I start neither Hayward nor Kanter, since I think their offensive contributions are somewhat diminishing returns and our shaky defense will be putrid for sure with both of them as our front court. That doesn't mean that they don't have a big role on the team. Walker, Brown and Smart can play most (or all) minutes at the guards spots, so when Smart comes in one of them stays in. Hayward can be the other playmaker and make sure we don't have to rely on the shooting of Smart or other guys who feel they need to take responsibility.

I think Theis and Kanter can complement each other very well. The well-rounded game of Theis with the rebounding/post-game of Kanter. Nice duo to deliver a new vibe to the game. Just like the first unit, the second unit has 4 capable three-point shooters. This unit should really be able to make a difference:

PG: Marcus Smart
SG: Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown
SF: Gordon Hayward
PF: Daniel Theis
C:  Enes Kanter

So basically a 9-man rotation. Weaknesses are defense (when necessary bring in Ojeleye) and to a lesser extent playmaking (Wanamaker is decent). I would only bring those 11 players to the game, unless injuries, and let Edwards, Langford, Yabusele, R.Williams (and Waters and Fall) gain experience in Maine. Unfortunately I have to admit that they're not ready.

Overall rotation:

PG: Walker (32), Smart (12), Wanamaker (4)
SG: Brown (32), Smart (16)
SF: Tatum (32), Hayward (16)
PF: G.Williams (16), Theis (12), Hayward (12), Ojeleye (8.)
C:  Poirier (16), Kanter (24), Theis (8.)

Total estimated minutes per game (big increase for Brown):

Kemba Walker 32
Jaylen Brown 32
Jayson Tatum 32
Gordon Hayward 28
Marcus Smart 28
Enes Kanter 24
Daniel Theis 20
Grant Williams 16
Vincent Poirier 16
Semi Ojeleye 8
Brad Wanamaker 4

[Surferdad]

Starting 2 rookies is just not gonna happen, sorry.

Nice post though, lot of good thought there!, especially on the minutes balance.  TP.

[Celtics4ever]

After some puzzling I found this to be the best starting unit:

PG: Kemba Walker
SG: Jaylen Brown
SF: Jayson Tatum
PF: Grant Williams
C:  Vincent Poirier

I think you need a new magic eight ball.....

[ozgod]

I’d be surprised to see Gordon coming off the bench. If we’re paying a guy $35m to come off the bench and he’s not even 30 yet I think it’s a poor use of funds. Last season you could understand, it was a deep team and he was coming off a bad injury. I don’t think there are any excuses this year. If he can’t win a starting spot because the position is crowded Danny needs to move him ASAP. The only exception would be if he came off the bench to soothe other players egos and have them start, but played starter level minutes in the high 20s into the 30s. If he’s still on the bench playing 22min a game by the end of November then I think he’s a bust.

I’m expecting him to provide a lot of leadership and guidance for this young team. In fact I think he should be looking for an All Star spot in a weak East as a key player for the Celtics, based on the player he was. I think anything less than that will be a disappointment.

Ever heard of a sunk cost? We paid him that when he was an all star, the injury was unexpected and we should deal with it instead of screaming "HURR DURR 30 MILLION REASONS" while making a case for him to start. I'd rather him do what you said in the latter part of your post, which is him playing starter minutes as a sixth man. He'd provide much needed shotmaking and passing to the second unit, and play with the starters in crunch time.

After how he looked last year, he should start off the bench. How much he is paid is absolutely irrelevant. Some of this teams problems stemmed form his getting minuets he didn't deserve, so lets see him actually earn them this year. On top of that it makes sense to have him come off the bench as the lead ball handler on the second unit, since we don't wnat Smart trying to cerate offense for himself and it gives him a shot to get in a groove against weaker bench units.

My point isn't to suggest that players who get paid the most should get the most minutes. I've said many times that player selection and minutes has to be meritocratic. It's that if he's unable to win a starter spot and/or starter level minutes at the amount we're paying him then we should move him and recoup some value. Again if they need him to come off the bench because he's more mature with it than someone else that's fine as long as he gets as many minutes to influence the game. It would be a poor use of cap space to have someone getting paid $35m to come off the bench or not playing starter minutes if he is healthy. Let's flip him for a big or two or a big and a 3 and D wing, depending on our needs.

[gpap]

I fully expect and hope to see (unless Ainge makes any more moves, which is doubtful)

-Kemba
-Brown
-Hayward
-Tatum
-Kanter.

[wiley]

I fully expect and hope to see (unless Ainge makes any more moves, which is doubtful)

-Kemba
-Brown
-Hayward
-Tatum
-Kanter.

I'm sure it doesn't matter in Brad's world, but I do feel better thinking of Tatum as the PF and Hayward at the SF, as opposed to vice versa.  Tatum is longer I'm guessing, younger and more athletic and has had no major injuries. 

[mmmmm]

Here is my take, using a slightly different positional nomenclature:

Bigs:  Kanter, Robert, Poirier, Theis, Yabusele
(big)Wings:  Hayward*, Tatum, Grant, Semi
(small) Wings:  Brown, Smart*, Langford
Quick-guards:  Kemba*, Wanamaker*, Edwards

* = ball-handler
bold = starter

Two-way:  Struz (wing), Fall (big)
Stash:  Waters* (quick)

Notes:
I expect Kanter to be the starter at the beginning of the season.  I hope that RW is able to at least push him for that role by end of season.   Overall, though, I expect Brad to be very situational with his bigs.

Smart will probably be first guy off the bench.   

As the season develops, Grant may be right behind him.  He's just too talented and versatile.  I predict Brad won't be able to resist putting him on the floor.

Edwards can handle the ball, but I expect him to be used primarily as a scoring guard.   He might move ahead of Wanamaker.

Keeping in mind that very few players stay healthy and log all 82 games, there is a good chance that either or both of Struz & Fall get some time in the show.

If Yabusele (who may get squeezed out for minutes) gets moved, freeing up a slot, they might go ahead and sign Waters.   But the Celtics may be best served by waiting until next year to start his rookie contract, assuming that maybe Wanamaker has moved on at that point, freeing up more minutes at that spot.

[Csfan1984]

I kind of want to develop a ton of chemistry and limit the rotation to 9 guys unless there is a blowout, injury, foul trouble or team is on a back to back.

Starters
Kemba, JB, Hayward, Tatum, Kanter.(5)

Bench
Smart, Semi, Theis, VP (9)

Reserve
Edwards, Langford, GW, Williams(13 active)


Red shirt
Tacko, Yabu (15)

D-league aka 2way
Waters, Strus (17)

One of the bigs will eventually get hurt and Williams will be moved up a spot for that limited run or rest of the year depending.

[__ramonezy__]

We may not like it but I can see us doing a trade around either Smart or Yabu for an experienced PF like Ibaka. We drafted 2 PGs for a reason and have at least 3 other players ahead of Smart whose natural position is SG

[Vermont Green]

I have thought about this in regards to how will the Celtics be able to deal with their poor balance with their line up.  If you think of it grouped between bigs and smalls (pg, sg, sf), there are 144 minutes available for the smalls.  I see 5 legit proven players for these minutes (Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Smart).  That works out to 28.8 min each if they share the small minutes.

So for every minute that one of the proven smalls plays in a big slot, Wannamaker, Edwards, or Langford will have to play these minutes.  At the big positions, there are 96 total minutes.  There for "proven" players we have Kantor, Theis, and Ojeleye.  Behind them we have RWill, Poirier, GWill, and maybe TFall.

So it is not so much of a question of whether you want more of Poirier or RWill over Tatum but rather over Wannamaker, Edwards, or Langford.  My point in this is that I think the 96 minutes for bigs is going to go to Kanter (24), Theis (24), Ojeleye (24) and then Poirier/RWill sharing the remaining 24.  So it comes down to do you want more of Ojeleye, Poirier, and RWill or more of Wannamaker, Edwards, and Langford.

[tstorey_97]

The rotation that I root for needs balance. Enough ball handling, scoring, shooting, defense, size and rebounding. That's not an easy task with this Celtics roster. The best players are almost all guards and wings. There's enough scoring and rebounding can be adressed with the centers. But defense is an issue and especially, since the temptation is there to play too small, which we should absolutely avoid.

After some puzzling I found this to be the best starting unit:

PG: Kemba Walker
SG: Jaylen Brown
SF: Jayson Tatum
PF: Grant Williams
C:  Vincent Poirier

Three legit scoring options (Walker, Brown, Tatum) adding more and we'd have the same problem as this year: not enough shots to get everybody in a rhytm. Walker and G.Williams are undersized, but overall it's okay. Poirier should be an excellent rebounder and a fine rim protector (theoretically I'd prefer Robert Williams, but unfortunately I think he needs some games in the G-league to grow). We don't have a clear starting PF, so hopefully Grant Williams can hold his own by using his BBIQ to do the little things.

So I start neither Hayward nor Kanter, since I think their offensive contributions are somewhat diminishing returns and our shaky defense will be putrid for sure with both of them as our front court. That doesn't mean that they don't have a big role on the team. Walker, Brown and Smart can play most (or all) minutes at the guards spots, so when Smart comes in one of them stays in. Hayward can be the other playmaker and make sure we don't have to rely on the shooting of Smart or other guys who feel they need to take responsibility.

I think Theis and Kanter can complement each other very well. The well-rounded game of Theis with the rebounding/post-game of Kanter. Nice duo to deliver a new vibe to the game. Just like the first unit, the second unit has 4 capable three-point shooters. This unit should really be able to make a difference:

PG: Marcus Smart
SG: Kemba Walker/Jaylen Brown
SF: Gordon Hayward
PF: Daniel Theis
C:  Enes Kanter

So basically a 9-man rotation. Weaknesses are defense (when necessary bring in Ojeleye) and to a lesser extent playmaking (Wanamaker is decent). I would only bring those 11 players to the game, unless injuries, and let Edwards, Langford, Yabusele, R.Williams (and Waters and Fall) gain experience in Maine. Unfortunately I have to admit that they're not ready.

Overall rotation:

PG: Walker (32), Smart (12), Wanamaker (4)
SG: Brown (32), Smart (16)
SF: Tatum (32), Hayward (16)
PF: G.Williams (16), Theis (12), Hayward (12), Ojeleye (8.)
C:  Poirier (16), Kanter (24), Theis (8.)

Total estimated minutes per game (big increase for Brown):

Kemba Walker 32
Jaylen Brown 32
Jayson Tatum 32
Gordon Hayward 28
Marcus Smart 28
Enes Kanter 24
Daniel Theis 20
Grant Williams 16
Vincent Poirier 16
Semi Ojeleye 8
Brad Wanamaker 4

TP rhody turfer...I'd give extras but, they won't let me.

[Vermont Green]

Total estimated minutes per game (big increase for Brown):

Kemba Walker 32
Jaylen Brown 32
Jayson Tatum 32
Gordon Hayward 28
Marcus Smart 28
Enes Kanter 24
Daniel Theis 20
Grant Williams 16
Vincent Poirier 16
Semi Ojeleye 8
Brad Wanamaker 4

This minutes distribution is reasonable but I think RWill is ahead of GWill and Ojeleye is ahead of them both plus Poirier.  I actually think Ojeleye is going to be in the regular rotation, maybe even starting.  Kanter will likely start as well.  Ojeleye is 24 so you can't expect a huge leap but I feel he will be better and ready for some regular minutes, or at least more ready than the rest of our meager big depth.  The bigs rotation will probably vary as none of them are real locks for regular minutes.

[indeedproceed]

Total estimated minutes per game (big increase for Brown):

Kemba Walker 32
Jaylen Brown 32
Jayson Tatum 32
Gordon Hayward 28
Marcus Smart 28
Enes Kanter 24
Daniel Theis 20
Grant Williams 16
Vincent Poirier 16
Semi Ojeleye 8
Brad Wanamaker 4

This minutes distribution is reasonable but I think RWill is ahead of GWill and Ojeleye is ahead of them both plus Poirier.  I actually think Ojeleye is going to be in the regular rotation, maybe even starting.  Kanter will likely start as well.  Ojeleye is 24 so you can't expect a huge leap but I feel he will be better and ready for some regular minutes, or at least more ready than the rest of our meager big depth.  The bigs rotation will probably vary as none of them are real locks for regular minutes.

Came here to make the same point

[action781]

Kemba 34
Jaylen 30
Tatum 32
Hayward 30
Kanter 26

Edwards + Wanamaker 10 (I think it will be just one of them, I dunno who)
Smart 28
Theis + GW 30 (split up somehow depending on play)
Poirier + Robert Williams 20 (probably only one of them earning the Lion's share of these)

I'm not crazy about Semi's game now, nor his long term future here, so I'm hoping he only gets playing time when other players are out which I'm sure will happen plenty.