CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: rondofan1255 on August 23, 2018, 02:30:42 PM
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If KAT becomes available ->
Jaylen Brown + filler or picks for Towns? Who says no?
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If Minnesota were to actually entertain this, and I love JB, but if the TWolves were to actually be open to that, it'd be hard to say no.
However, Jaylen is gonna have to continue his upward trajectory if we're gonna get Towns with JUST Jaylen and picks. If Jaylen flatlines this season, or heaven forbid backslides a bit, Brown and picks I don't think will get it done
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I’m starting to believe Brown has the ability to turn himself into a superstar.
We all know he’s got elite intelligence and athleticism, now it’s just a matter of his desire. Does he want to simply be a max player or does he want MVP votes every season of his prime?
His shooting and defense are already there. If his ballhandling and court-awareness improve, he’s gonna be a force.
That’s not to say he isn’t untradable, we know nobody is. But if we are moving Brown, I want Davis.
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I take the player with heart and work ethic, I take the two way player, I take Jaylen Brown!
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Towns makes $7.8M. Brown about $5.2M. Yabusele included would make it work nicely. Also at issue is Towns becomes a RFA after this season, Brown after next.
I really like Brown. I think he is going to be a star. In terms of roster balance, what is a better line up:
Irving-Hayward-Tatum-Horford-Towns
or
Irving-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Horford
Tough call but I probably do it. Not sure why Minny would though.
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Jaylen + SAC pick + whatever for KAT? Yes.
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Depends on the full package
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It sounds crazy not to go for KAT, but the more you think about it, the less appealing it gets. I just don't see him as a winner. I see Jaylen as the guy that becomes the kind of fearless, competitive leader you need to go all the way. KAT looks like he just doesn't have that level of competitiveness. He isn't a better defender than he was 2 years ago. For a guy his age with so much on the line, that tells me what I need to know.
I say no.
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I'm too attached to Brown, Tatum, and Hayward. I'm pretty attached to Irving and Horford as well.
KAT might be one of the best shooters in the league -- not just for big men. It's ridiculous to think how good he might be with CBS.
I just couldn't do it, especially considering the fact that we are legit contenders right now that pose a difficult matchup for the reigning champs.
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How many first round picks is Minnesota giving us in addition to Towns?
;D
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The only player from Minnesota in whom we should have any interest, imo, is Justin Patton, so yeah, no, lol. Towns is an awful defensive player and doesn't seem to have that needed fire, so to speak, but I'm weird. :-\
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The only player from Minnesota in whom we should have any interest, imo, is Justin Patton, so yeah, no, lol. Towns is an awful defensive player and doesn't seem to have that needed fire, so to speak, but I'm weird. :-\
Towns does have NBA quality skills though. In fact, he’s a very good rebounder and one of the best scoring big men in the league, and is only 22. Meanwhile Patton hasn’t exhibited anything of note
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A C without the D? No thank you, i will take the B to be the better player
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
All of this. You can make an argument that KAT has had one of the 5 greatest offensive starts to an NBA career of any big man. He has all the tools to become at least effective defensively, while utterly carrying a team offensively. All while being insanely young.
Jaylen Brown is my favorite player in the NBA (favorite, although I believe Tatum has a higher upside) and I would do the deal in a heartbeat.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
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Rather off Kyrie that way Butler can help force the deal and draft a guard this summer which is draft heavy for guards. Also, Scary Terry can play.
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Rather off Kyrie that way Butler can help force the deal and draft a guard this summer which is draft heavy for guards. Also, Scary Terry can play.
This draft is heavy on wings and very light on bigs and ballhandlers.
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Rather off Kyrie that way Butler can help force the deal and draft a guard this summer which is draft heavy for guards. Also, Scary Terry can play.
This draft is heavy on wings and very light on bigs and ballhandlers.
RJ Barrett is a ball-handler predominantly, he's just very long. Definitely not a true PG, but a ball-handler nonetheless.
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This draft is heavy on wings and very light on bigs and ballhandlers.
I am calling your BS plenty of guards in there.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/6/22/17473998/nba-mock-draft-2019-duke-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-cameron-reddish
Also, guys always have to switch positions because their college size and NBA size are different.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
That’s not how it works at all. There aren’t only 6 guards in the top 15 players in the NBA. That’s an incredibly dishonest argument.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
That’s not how it works at all. There aren’t only 6 guards in the top 15 players in the NBA. That’s an incredibly dishonest argument.
He is a top 15 player in the league and not just because finished on the 3rd Team All NBA (and not just because before the season SI (12th) and ESPN (14th) had him there and then he only got better). He finished in the top 10 in a number of statistical categories including 4th in rebounds per game. His offensive rating was 126.7 which was 2nd in the league. His VORP of 5.5 was 6th. He was 2nd in the league in win shares. His true shooting percentage was 9th. His PER was 10th. Towns is an offensive juggernaut, unlike any that the league has ever seen (given his size, range, athleticism, etc.).
This idea that Towns isn't a top 15 player in the league right now is just silly. He clearly had a top 15 statistical season (probably top 10 in reality). He was on a team that was 12 games over .500 and had the best on/off differential on that team. In addition to having the best ORTG on the Wolves (excluding Anthony Brown and his 4 minutes in 1 game), he also had the best DRTG (excluding Patton and Aldrich and their combined 53 minutes). He was the best player on a playoff team and he was 22 years old in just his 3rd year in the league.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
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I can't believe how many irrational voters chose no in this poll.
Brown is a redundant player in the most stacked position on this team. He may not even be better than Morris.
KAT plays the position the Celtics are the thinnest at so naturally you'd snatch him up if you could.
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Rather off Kyrie that way Butler can help force the deal and draft a guard this summer which is draft heavy for guards. Also, Scary Terry can play.
This draft is heavy on wings and very light on bigs and ballhandlers.
This draft may be heavy at the top for wings but if you look deeper it has lots of bigs (guys 6'10 and over) that have mad skills and will go in the first round. Bigs are also sometimes slower to develop but I could list 10 guys (maybe 7 off the top of my head) that could go in the first round. That's 1/3 of the first round.
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This draft is heavy on wings and very light on bigs and ballhandlers.
I am calling your BS plenty of guards in there.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/6/22/17473998/nba-mock-draft-2019-duke-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-cameron-reddish
Also, guys always have to switch positions because their college size and NBA size are different.
I apologize. In your original post you talked about moving Kyrie so we could replace him with this draft. Kyrie is a primary on ball point playmaker in my opinion (with obvious off ball abilities.) Drafting a Cam Reddish or RJ Barrett would fill a wing role. We would still have a hole where Kyrie was. The first "point guard" off the list was at pick 15.
If we are moving Kyrie, I'd love to use our high end draft capital to replace him, not middling picks. If I misunderstood your vision for our team going forward, I apologize. I think this draft is top heavy in wings, be it a shooting guard or small forward.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
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Do it in a heartbeat.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
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i guess yes straight up
bigs are tuff
watching embiid and CAt go at it would be great stuff
give em short shorts and it could pass for early 80's ball
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No.
We hold on to JB at (almost) all costs. I'd trade him 1 for 1 for Davis, but JB's attitude and potential is too extreme to trade for someone like KAT (overrated, sub-par defender).
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
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This is hard.... But the odds say never give a big for a small.
He could be a potential Al replacement. Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade. I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.
Fast forward three years
Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful. He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful. Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game? I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown? That is why his argument is silly. He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.
At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22. Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).
Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce. Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player. A top 3 player in the league type player. An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever. He is just on a different tier than Brown is.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful. He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful. Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game? I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown? That is why his argument is silly. He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.
At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22. Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).
Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce. Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player. A top 3 player in the league type player. An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever. He is just on a different tier than Brown is.
Boom! That's a huge TP. For telling it like it is Moranis
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This is hard.... But the odds say never give a big for a small.
He could be a potential Al replacement. Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade. I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.
Fast forward three years
Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat
You don't have to fast forward. It makes us better right now.
Towns
Horford
Hayward
Tatum
Irving
Baynes
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier
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This is hard.... But the odds say never give a big for a small.
He could be a potential Al replacement. Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade. I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.
Fast forward three years
Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat
You don't have to fast forward. It makes us better right now.
Towns
Horford
Hayward
Tatum
Irving
Baynes
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier
A starting lineup that includes Towns and Irving would get 1-5 pick n rolled to death by all the good teams throughout the regular season and mercilessly in the playoffs. Houston exploited Towns on virtually every possession in the series just as many other of the best teams would have. It is next to impossible to win 4 games in a series when your defense is giving up super high quality scoring opportunities, your only chance to win games are shootouts and poor shooting nights by your opposition.
I can't stress enough how big of a NO Towns is. People mistake his offensive production and rebounding for winning basketball and it is just not true. A poor defensive center at every level (perimeter, pick n roll, help and at the rim) is a death sentence against the better teams that have the personnel to exploit him.
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This is hard.... But the odds say never give a big for a small.
He could be a potential Al replacement. Since we have more swings and ball handlers I'd would not be mad if we made this trade. I would have a hard time doing it, but it balances the talent on our team.
Fast forward three years
Terry
Smart
Hayward
Tatum
Kat
You don't have to fast forward. It makes us better right now.
Towns
Horford
Hayward
Tatum
Irving
Baynes
Morris
Semi
Smart
Rozier
A starting lineup that includes Towns and Irving would get 1-5 pick n rolled to death by all the good teams throughout the regular season and mercilessly in the playoffs. Houston exploited Towns on virtually every possession in the series just as many other of the best teams would have. It is next to impossible to win 4 games in a series when your defense is giving up super high quality scoring opportunities, your only chance to win games are shootouts and poor shooting nights by your opposition.
I can't stress enough how big of a NO Towns is. People mistake his offensive production and rebounding for winning basketball and it is just not true. A poor defensive center at every level (perimeter, pick n roll, help and at the rim) is a death sentence against the better teams that have the personnel to exploit him.
I go back and forth but this is basically where I come out. Maybe I pick Towns before Brown if I’m starting a team from scratch, maybe. But for this Celtics team I don’t see it. Brown has all-NBA potential on defense, and he’s a superb complement to Kyrie at the 2, capable of defending 1-3, and even some 4s when he’s switches. Towns’ scoring is nice, but given our other starters do we need that as much as the D? I’m ready to count on Kyrie, Tatum, and Hayward to get the toughest buckets at a very high level and I love the way Brown shores up the D while sill giving us potent offensive weapons. Especially if we are targeting GSW and Houston Brown seems like a very useful player to hang onto.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful. He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful. Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game? I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown? That is why his argument is silly. He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.
At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22. Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).
Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce. Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player. A top 3 player in the league type player. An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever. He is just on a different tier than Brown is.
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.
Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.
Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.
You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.
In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.
Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful. He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful. Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game? I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown? That is why his argument is silly. He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.
At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22. Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).
Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce. Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player. A top 3 player in the league type player. An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever. He is just on a different tier than Brown is.
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.
Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.
Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.
You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.
In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.
Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.
His 9 shots in game 2 were in under 24 minutes. He only played 24 minutes because they got whooped because they played the best team in basketball. Let's not pretend he wasn't shooting at his normal clip, because he absolutely was. His first playoff game ever he didn't shoot many or well. No question about that. He didn't shoot well in his 2nd game, but was shooting at his normal rate. His final 3 playoff games were all pretty darn good though. And I wouldn't exactly be bragging about a 5 of 18 performance. Maybe if Brown shot less, Boston wins that game. Brown isn't Irving or Carmelo or someone that can just get hot and take over offensively. That isn't his game. He was off and he didn't have the sense to stop shooting the ball (same with Smart and Rozier, but no one ever expects either of them to play with sense). Brown faded and failed in the biggest game of the year. He didn't step up in the moment. This was not a guy in his first playoff game ever. This was not a guy that hadn't been in that situation. He just failed. Period.
And for the record, Towns outplayed Butler in the Houston series. He was Minnesota's best and most consistent player overall. Even in game 2, Towns outperformed Butler.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful. He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful. Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game? I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown? That is why his argument is silly. He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.
At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22. Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).
Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce. Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player. A top 3 player in the league type player. An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever. He is just on a different tier than Brown is.
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.
Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.
Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.
You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.
In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.
Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.
His 9 shots in game 2 were in under 24 minutes. He only played 24 minutes because they got whooped because they played the best team in basketball. Let's not pretend he wasn't shooting at his normal clip, because he absolutely was. His first playoff game ever he didn't shoot many or well. No question about that. He didn't shoot well in his 2nd game, but was shooting at his normal rate. His final 3 playoff games were all pretty darn good though. And I wouldn't exactly be bragging about a 5 of 18 performance. Maybe if Brown shot less, Boston wins that game. Brown isn't Irving or Carmelo or someone that can just get hot and take over offensively. That isn't his game. He was off and he didn't have the sense to stop shooting the ball (same with Smart and Rozier, but no one ever expects either of them to play with sense). Brown faded and failed in the biggest game of the year. He didn't step up in the moment. This was not a guy in his first playoff game ever. This was not a guy that hadn't been in that situation. He just failed. Period.
And for the record, Towns outplayed Butler in the Houston series. He was Minnesota's best and most consistent player overall. Even in game 2, Towns outperformed Butler.
So is laying 2 eggs in 5 games (Towns) the same thing as laying 1 egg in 19 (Brown) numerically, Moranis?
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o72EVJcAWOA1jaFLW/giphy.gif)
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An NBA beat writer was saying on the radio that Towns is more of a stat guy than a hustle guy, and that he "isn't the high-character guy people think."
Gee, wonder why Butler wants out so bad?
Dude is the poster boy for empty stats. I doubt we win a title with him getting heavy minutes. Some guys just don't get it. Do not want.
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You guys are crazy. Towns is one of the 15 best players on the world 3 years into his career. He is one of the best offensive players in all of basketball. His shooting is incredible. He is an excellent rebounder and credible passer. His defense needs work but he has the skill level to be at least passable if not better (and I do think the fact he plays with so many poor defenders makes him seem worse than he actually is). Jaylen Brown if everything goes right will be lucky to be as good as Towns is right now.
Disagree with that, but you don't seem to like Brown. Towns is an elite talent offensively and won the Skills competition a few years ago, but he hasn't made Minny much better. Why? Yes, if you are top-15 then you make any team better.
He was 3rd Team All NBA last year. That makes him one of the 15 best players and it is hard to argue his inclusion was a fluke (like say IT4's 2nd Team was) since he has gotten better each season. The Wolves were 13.5 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor then when he was off the floor (his +- with him on the floor was 6.2). That is pretty much the definition of making your team better.
And yet, with Jimmy Butler for 59 games (roughly the same as Kyrie, except he played in the playoffs), Wiggins, Teague, Dieng, Taj Gibson and Jamal Crawford, they won 8 less games than the C's and Towns offense deteriorated in the playoffs. Capela neutralized him, and Houston had little trouble taking them out.
On the other hand, despite a difficult injury, Jaylen stepped up considerably in the playoffs and found a way to be the best player on the floor in several games. There was no comparison between the two teams in terms of competitiveness and performance.
Houston was the best team in basketball last year. The comparison between them and the teams the C's played is just silly. The C's are in the East, the Wolves are in the West again making a team win comparison silly (though Boston was 16-2 to start the year while it took the Wolves some time to find their groove with all their new players starting the year just 14-11). 12 games over .500 and just the 8th seed. Comparing teams like that is just silly.
And Towns still had a TS% of 54.2 against the Rockets. He scored 15.2 ppg on just 12 shots (wasn't very good from 3 but had just 11 attempts) and managed a "terrible" 13.4 rpg in the series. The Wolves tried to play the Rockets game and they just aren't as good as the Rockets. That was flat out a poor coaching job from Thibs.
Dude, can you quit with the "silly" crap? You can disagree, and you can point out counter arguments. That's good enough.
Houston was a lot better than the teams the C's played. I didn't say they were equal. But Minnesota did play, and they were disappointing. I pointed out that Towns did not step up, and did not play up to his normal level in the playoffs.
I did compare the C's to the Timberwolves. I do contend we were considerably better, and that raw talent was not the reason. We played harder, smarter and with more poise. Towns is the centerpiece of that team. Brown was a leader of the C's playoff surge. I think it speaks to a difference in the toughness and competitiveness of the two players.
and yet in the Celtics biggest game of the year, Brown was downright terrible. 13 points on 18 shots. -11 in a game the C's lost by 8. Embarrassed on their home floor in a winner take all game.
Towns first two games were bad offensively (though game 2 they got crushed and he only played like 23 minutes). Those of course were his first 2 playoff games ever. Games 3-5 were much better. 18/16 in the win (13 shots) and then the last 2 were 22/15 (15 shots) and 23/14 (14 shots). Those final 2 games he shot 60% or better.
Brown was not the only player laying bricks that game. You're coming across as though the failure to win that game was all on him which it was not. C's got that far into the playoffs thanks to Brown having some stellar games which are being ignored in your commentary.
No I was commenting on the toughness and competitiveness part of his statement and pointed out, correctly, that when Boston needed Brown the most in the biggest game of the year, he was awful. He certainly wasn't the only awful player in that game, but he was in fact awful. Where was Brown's toughness and competitiveness in that game? I mean he used 2 bad playoff games against Towns, why isn't it also fair to use bad games against Brown? That is why his argument is silly. He based it on a very small sample size against vastly different competition.
At the end of the day, Towns had a top 10 or 15 season in the league in his 3rd year at the age of 22. Brown has one less year, but he was no where near a top 15 player in the league and Towns had a significantly better 2nd year than Brown did as well (so it is reasonably to assume that Brown's 3rd year won't be as good as Towns' 3rd year).
Brown has a chance to be a very good, borderline great, player, in a very similar mold to that of Paul Pierce. Towns, though, has a chance to be a special player. A top 3 player in the league type player. An all time great offensive player that could be one of the greatest all around offensive players ever. He is just on a different tier than Brown is.
Had to toss another silly in there, didn't you. Lame.
Neither player has any cap on what they can become. Both players can level off at any time and both can become MVPs.
Towns has eye-popping offensive numbers. His downside is that his position is increasingly devalued in the modern game, and this is particularly stark because he is a below average defender. He does not impose himself on the game in the way you want a superstar to do. There is no getting around the fact that his awesome offensive game has not made anyone fear the Timberwolves. The alpha dog on Minnesota immediately became Jimmy Butler. No one sees Towns as his equal, despite his amazing talent.
You cite his bad games and Brown's bad game. Brown came out and tried to win. He took the 18 shots and the responsibility and they didn't go in. Towns, on the other hand, took less than 10 shots in each of the first two playoff games. He shrunk from the moment.
In traditional terms, it is obvious to prefer Towns. But the NBA has fundamentally changed. A guy like Brown, who probably will make multiple all-NBA defensive teams, is the best athlete on the team, is a leader, and has proven he has the talent to average over 20 PPG - that is not a player you give up. If we win the title, it will be because it will be overwhelming to play against 3 wings that are so big, athletic and two dimensional. The soul of this team will be the trio of Brown, Tatum and Hayward. There will be no compromise anywhere on the court.
Unless Towns changed fairly fundamentally, we'd be a team that would kill lesser teams but have big problems against GS and Houston.
His 9 shots in game 2 were in under 24 minutes. He only played 24 minutes because they got whooped because they played the best team in basketball. Let's not pretend he wasn't shooting at his normal clip, because he absolutely was. His first playoff game ever he didn't shoot many or well. No question about that. He didn't shoot well in his 2nd game, but was shooting at his normal rate. His final 3 playoff games were all pretty darn good though. And I wouldn't exactly be bragging about a 5 of 18 performance. Maybe if Brown shot less, Boston wins that game. Brown isn't Irving or Carmelo or someone that can just get hot and take over offensively. That isn't his game. He was off and he didn't have the sense to stop shooting the ball (same with Smart and Rozier, but no one ever expects either of them to play with sense). Brown faded and failed in the biggest game of the year. He didn't step up in the moment. This was not a guy in his first playoff game ever. This was not a guy that hadn't been in that situation. He just failed. Period.
And for the record, Towns outplayed Butler in the Houston series. He was Minnesota's best and most consistent player overall. Even in game 2, Towns outperformed Butler.
So is laying 2 eggs in 5 games (Towns) the same thing as laying 1 egg in 19 (Brown) numerically, Moranis?
Brown laid a lot more than 1 egg, but good job on reading comprehension and context.
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The only player from Minnesota in whom we should have any interest, imo, is Justin Patton, so yeah, no, lol. Towns is an awful defensive player and doesn't seem to have that needed fire, so to speak, but I'm weird. :-\
Towns does have NBA quality skills though. In fact, he’s a very good rebounder and one of the best scoring big men in the league, and is only 22. Meanwhile Patton hasn’t exhibited anything of note
Minnesota’s 2017 first-round draft pick Justin Patton has suffered another broken foot, this time in his right foot, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski.
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1041080938577444864?s=21
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The only player from Minnesota in whom we should have any interest, imo, is Justin Patton, so yeah, no, lol. Towns is an awful defensive player and doesn't seem to have that needed fire, so to speak, but I'm weird. :-\
Towns does have NBA quality skills though. In fact, he’s a very good rebounder and one of the best scoring big men in the league, and is only 22. Meanwhile Patton hasn’t exhibited anything of note
Minnesota’s 2017 first-round draft pick Justin Patton has suffered another broken foot, this time in his right foot, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski.
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1041080938577444864?s=21
Shocking luck, but I can't say it's surprising. Big men with feet issues are shockingly risky. It took Brook Lopez basically 2 separate years off, and Zydrunas played 29 games in 3 seasons for foot injuries too
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Do not trade brown
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Jaylen + SAC pick + whatever for KAT? Yes.
are you a Minnesota fan?
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I originally voted Yes, but not anymore with all this Butler drama lol
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I originally voted Yes, but not anymore with all this Butler drama lol
Yeah, my maybe is turning into a no. Maybe he becomes available for cheap ;) (not that I think that is even close to being likely)
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How about Irving + Yabusele + Kings' pick for Towns + Gibson?
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I think Jaylen is going to be a late bloomer. We'd regret letting him go.
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I think Jaylen is going to be a late bloomer. We'd regret letting him go.
His professional attitude , work ethic and driven to win is alone reason to keep him. I never dreamed he d shoot this well so soon. Trading him or Tatum is a huge mistake .
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I think Jaylen is going to be a late bloomer. We'd regret letting him go.
He’s only 21 (for another week) and already really good. If he’s a late bloomer, he’s gonna be an MVP-candidate.
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After watching JB the 1st 2 games - hell yes. He is the weakest near the basket player I can ever remember. Does this kid know how to make a layup? He can't take a hit and make one if his life depended on it.
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After watching JB the 1st 2 games - hell yes. He is the weakest near the basket player I can ever remember. Does this kid know how to make a layup? He can't take a hit and make one if his life depended on it.
And yet he was arguably the best player on the Celtics during the Playoffs.
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After watching JB the 1st 2 games - hell yes. He is the weakest near the basket player I can ever remember. Does this kid know how to make a layup? He can't take a hit and make one if his life depended on it.
He’s shot over 60% within 3 feet for his career, which isn’t overly good, but it’s not anything like this. The past two games were a fluke.
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After watching JB the 1st 2 games - hell yes. He is the weakest near the basket player I can ever remember. Does this kid know how to make a layup? He can't take a hit and make one if his life depended on it.
And yet he was arguably the best player on the Celtics during the Playoffs.
It's AL and Tatum and it's not close lol
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After watching JB the 1st 2 games - hell yes. He is the weakest near the basket player I can ever remember. Does this kid know how to make a layup? He can't take a hit and make one if his life depended on it.
And yet he was arguably the best player on the Celtics during the Playoffs.
It's AL and Tatum and it's not close lol
Al sure, but Tatum and Brown were absolutely close overall last year.
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I don't view Brown as I do Tatum. While Brown is the better defender at this point, there is something missing in his offensive decision making. He shoots the three well, he is inconsistent taking the ball to the rim even with all that athletic ability, and his face-up game is void. Will it develop? I'm not 100% sold.
While Tatum IMO has star written all over him, I see Brown as a solid 2-way player. Honestly, I don't feel he will ever be more valuable than a healthy Gordan Hayward.
The sad part for me is, I hope I'm wrong.
Include him in a trade for Towns? I'd have to say yes.
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Towns is like the anti-Horford, so my initial thought is no thank you.
BUT, as I feel about most players with issues- if there's ever a team, coach, system that can make a player willingly produce more effort, it's in Boston.
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After watching JB the 1st 2 games - hell yes. He is the weakest near the basket player I can ever remember. Does this kid know how to make a layup? He can't take a hit and make one if his life depended on it.
And yet he was arguably the best player on the Celtics during the Playoffs.
It's AL and Tatum and it's not close lol
That just isn't supported by stats or the eye test. Jaylen Brown was a complete stud in the playoffs on both sides of the ball.
Two so - so games into this season and people are ready to grab the pitchforks and go after Brown, why am I not surprised? lol
I am not super high on Towns as a player. I watched a few of his playoff games last year and came away meh...I expected more from him in the playoffs. Towns in his first playoffs didn't seem to have the extra gear that you want to see in a super-max player.
When we needed Jaylen to step up last year, he absolutely played great.
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I'm seriously starting to wonder if the Wolves might commit to Butler instead of KAT long-term.
Think about it for a minute. They signed KAT to a 5 year extension, meaning they have him locked up for 6 years total including this year. After that, he is an UFA.
Who would you rather have for the next 6 years? Butler or Towns? With the way Butler takes care of his body, and the advances in modern medicine, I'm starting to think Butler could play at an all-star level through his mid-30s (ala Chris Paul, etc.).
KAT has shown little-to-no ability to help his team win games. He produces, and he has an intriguing talent, but the team has not benefited. Butler, on the other hand, definitely helps his team win games.
And even if they were close in on-court wins over the next 6 years, which player would get you back more?
Butler could get 4 late firsts (that could become seconds) spread out over 7 years, with two injured players
KAT could get much much more. I would think the Celtics would give up the Kings picks, other picks, Morris, Rozier, and Yabu at least. Probably include Brown too. Other teams might give more or less.
The Wolves would be much better with Rozier, Butler, the kings pick, and other players than KAT and late-round picks over the next 6 years.
Here's the narrative that makes sense: Tell Butler that they would like to commit long-term to him with a 5 year max. Make the offer. Get his signature on the condition that the Wolves commit to putting winning, hard-working, talented players around him, starting by trading KAT.
Trade the newly acquired assets, includ Kings pick, for another star (target Gasol, Conley?)
Be ready to compete next year after Durant leaves the Warriors.
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Towns isn't going anywhere. The owner has made his decision.
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Who would you rather have for the next 6 years? Butler or Towns?
Towns and it's not close.
I understand the arguments that Butler is the better player and the fear that Towns is lazy is real. But what Towns brings to the table as a 23 year old is almost unique unto himself in the NBA. I think you have to stick with the talent and try different ways of making the most of it.
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Who would you rather have for the next 6 years? Butler or Towns?
Towns and it's not close.
I understand the arguments that Butler is the better player and the fear that Towns is lazy is real. But what Towns brings to the table as a 23 year old is almost unique unto himself in the NBA. I think you have to stick with the talent and try different ways of making the most of it.
I disagree that it's not close. I do agree about sticking with talent. I do agree that KAT is a unique talent. I'm just saying that you could potentially have either guy for the next 6 years. Butler might give you a better chance to win over that time, even considering their age and potential.
Also, when you consider the trade package you might get for each, it could tip the scales toward keeping Butler.
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Never mind Towns.... Jaylen will not even fetch us a first rounder the way he is playing.
Drives to the hoop and is easily blockable.
Gets to the FT line and bricks his FTs.
Stands in the corner for three but when given the ball.. He bricks it.
Im just about ready to trade him and Rozier for Butler at theis point.
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Never mind Towns.... Jaylen will not even fetch us a first rounder the way he is playing.
Drives to the hoop and is easily blockable.
Gets to the FT line and bricks his FTs.
Stands in the corner for three but when given the ball.. He bricks it.
Im just about ready to trade him and Rozier for Butler at theis point.
Need gloves for that one ...
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If KAT becomes available ->
Jaylen Brown + filler or picks for Towns? Who says no?
I voted no simply because I feel like Jaylen has a killer instinct akin to Jimmy Butler, while the Butler situation has made me question KAT's toughness and will to win. KAT is undoubtedly the better player, but I need someone who will sacrifice everything for a win--a dog if you will. Jaylen definitely has pit bull in him, while Towns seems to have the personality of a labrador retriever.
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I voted no simply because I feel like Jaylen has a killer instinct akin to Jimmy Butler,
Boy, you have not watched many games this year because right now that killer instinct this year could not punch through a wet paperbag....
I hope Brown turns it around, though.
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People are losing their minds. It's just october. Brad will find a good rotation in a few games. Mark my words. Wait at least until we are 15/20 games in the season.
Jaylen is just a little lost about his role. He needs to adapt to the return of Kyrie and Hayward.
I think Brad will eventually put Hayward in the bench, for him to come along slowly and start Baynes with Horford in the paint. This could even happen tomorrow against the Pistons.
I don't think he is gonna start with Tatum and Horford against Blake and Drummond.
With that tweak in the lineup, I think there will be more space in the perimeter. I just think he should cut more instead of stand in the corner. Take a look at some Lakers games and see what Kuzma has been doing.
Almost every time the ball handler penetrates, he makes a baseline cut to the basket. He's been getting easy layups and dunks every game just by doing that. Jaylen should start doing that. 1 or 2 dunks from the baseline would boost his confidence for sure!
Please, don't have a short memory people. Jaylen did a lot for us last year, his sophomore year.
Sorry about my english. Brazilian Celtics fan here, all the way from Rio!
Let's go Celtics!
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small sample size
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Towns is a 7 foot tall unicorn. I love Jaylen Brown. But Towns might give us that added dimension that we lack. So of course I'd trade Brown plus extra for Towns.
However considering Towns just signed a 5 year 190m dollar deal (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776830-karl-anthony-towns-timberwolves-reportedly-agree-to-5-year-190m-contract), I don't see him going anywhere.
Anthony Davis would be my target at this point in time.
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People are losing their minds. It's just october.
Agree, TP
Also who on this earth thinks Brown could nab you KAT? That is pretty unrealistic.
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People are losing their minds. It's just october.
Agree, TP
Also who on this earth thinks Brown could nab you KAT? That is pretty unrealistic.
well apparently a majority of the people voting in this thread because they wouldn't make the trade, which also is astonishing to me. Towns is so much better than Brown it is crazy to even discuss.
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Right now, I would do it and then flip KAT eventually.
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Right now, I would do it and then flip KAT eventually.
I find it laughable that people think we could flip Brown for KAT. This is not NBA2K. He does not even have remotely equal value and they already have Wiggins. This was more plausible when Butler was still there. Now it simply is not feasible.
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People are losing their minds. It's just october.
Agree, TP
Also who on this earth thinks Brown could nab you KAT? That is pretty unrealistic.
well apparently a majority of the people voting in this thread because they wouldn't make the trade, which also is astonishing to me. Towns is so much better than Brown it is crazy to even discuss.
Yeah, if Minny were dumb enough to deal KAT for Brown + filler, I'd make the trade and worst case scenario, if I found out Towns was a loser, flip him for assets at least equal to JB.
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Right now, I would do it and then flip KAT eventually.
I find it laughable that people think we could flip Brown for KAT. This is not NBA2K. He does not even have remotely equal value and they already have Wiggins. This was more plausible when Butler was still there. Now it simply is not feasible.
It was a fun idea to discuss when thread was made at the start (August), look at the vote distribution. Jaylen’s slow start tanked his CB hypothetical value...
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Right now, I would do it and then flip KAT eventually.
I find it laughable that people think we could flip Brown for KAT. This is not NBA2K. He does not even have remotely equal value and they already have Wiggins. This was more plausible when Butler was still there. Now it simply is not feasible.
It was a fun idea to discuss when thread was made at the start (August), look at the vote distribution. Jaylen’s slow start tanked his CB hypothetical value...
Even in August it was laughable. Since the minute Towns entered the league his value has been significantly higher than Brown's. Every single second of every single day.
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Right now, I would do it and then flip KAT eventually.
I find it laughable that people think we could flip Brown for KAT. This is not NBA2K. He does not even have remotely equal value and they already have Wiggins. This was more plausible when Butler was still there. Now it simply is not feasible.
It was a fun idea to discuss when thread was made at the start (August), look at the vote distribution. Jaylen’s slow start tanked his CB hypothetical value...
Even in August it was laughable. Since the minute Towns entered the league his value has been significantly higher than Brown's. Every single second of every single day.
This is CelticsBlog, rarely is a trade proposal laughable to the majority if the C's are the ones coming out on top.
The poll result speaks for itself. :D
Would you be willing to include Jaylen Brown in any trade for KAT?
Yes 25 (33.8%)
No 34 (45.9%)
Maybe 15 (20.3%)
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No, Towns is fools gold.
He puts up nice offensive stats but he's not a winning basketball player. I don't want his weak mentality anywhere near this team.
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Right now, I would do it and then flip KAT eventually.
I find it laughable that people think we could flip Brown for KAT. This is not NBA2K. He does not even have remotely equal value and they already have Wiggins. This was more plausible when Butler was still there. Now it simply is not feasible.
It was a fun idea to discuss when thread was made at the start (August), look at the vote distribution. Jaylen’s slow start tanked his CB hypothetical value...
Even in August it was laughable. Since the minute Towns entered the league his value has been significantly higher than Brown's. Every single second of every single day.
Yeah I didn't even vote in the poll because the idea that a package centered around Brown could get KAT was... well, you said it.