CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ballin on October 18, 2017, 09:13:02 PM
-
Not his game, but his personality and leadership. First, with some of the crazy stuff he said over the summer and the passive aggressive comments towards the Cavs. But, I guess whatever he says in the offseason isn't too relevant... can't judge players by that.
But I am TOTALLY concerned with the "leadership" he has been displaying on the court, specifically this Bucks game that's currently going on. Scal mentioned that he listened in on a huddle and Kyrie was yelling at someone for failing to get a pass to him. Then, when Jaylen got in between Kyrie and a pass, Kyrie started totally yapping at him. The camera actually switched to Jaylen's face right as he was rolling his eyes.
Blaming people and pointing fingers is NOT leadership!! The thing that happened with Jaylen was completely understandable... accidents like that happen at least once or twice a game. Also, I don't like the idea of Kyrie yelling at anybody regarding passing. Not only is that somewhat hypocritical for a notoriously iso-oriented player, but that's Brad's purview. Stevens can - and will - handle that stuff. IDK what Kyrie learned while being "the man" on a crappy team, nor what he learned under Lebron, but I really, really don't like what I'm seeing so far. That could hurt the solidarity of the team long run, and it wouldn't take too much to subvert the culture after Ainge just traded away our heart and soul.
Anyway, not trying to hate on Kyrie, but I'm legitimately concerned at the way he has been conducting himself professionally.
-
There's a difference between pointing fingers and demanding perfection/play execution
-
Maybe brown screwed up?
-
What did you think about Kobe?
-
Difference between being soft leadership and aggressive leadership. We need some aggressive leadership.
-
It's funny how there are those that go out of their way to find something negative lol.
-
Marcus Smart was also yelling on Brown last year on botched plays.
-
Lol
l o l
-
Kyrie had double digit assists last night in Cleveland. Strong start.
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
Completely Agree.
People are comparing last year's team, with three seasons for the core to get, to this team, which is completely revamped.
I just don't get fans sometimes.
Clearly it will take some time to figure things out, that was true before Gordon went down, and it is even more true now.
This teams ceiling is so much higher.
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
Are you serious?
-
Kyrie had double digit assists last night in Cleveland. Strong start.
With only 2 turnovers.
There's going to be bumps along the road guys. That happens when you turn over 75% of your roster, are already down an important rotation player (Morris) and lose the a key cog in the 1st game of the season.
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
Let's just cancel the season then. Forfeit the 80 remaining games. There's no point anymore, we lost to the Bucks.
-
To be fair, Irving is learning the role. We can give him the benefit of the doubt for awhile. Hell, maybe LBJ leads this way and he was just trying to mimic.
-
To be fair, Irving is learning the role. We can give him the benefit of the doubt for awhile. Hell, maybe LBJ leads this way and he was just trying to mimic.
Patience.
People are acting like IT was the player he was last year, the first season or two with the team.
He wasn't and that revisionist history is killing me.
-
Yeah, he’s not a leader. Also, in a tight game the only skill that he has to make an impact on the game is to take more shots.
-
I’m worried about the lack of ball movement. Pathetic.
-
I’m worried about the lack of ball movement. Pathetic.
This is where I am more concerned as well. Brad needs to do some teaching in practice so we can get back to the type of spacing and movement that we can absolutely kill teams with. The potential is there.
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
last years team started off the season with a 5 point victory over the Nets and then a 6 point loss to the Bulls. I will take this start over that one all day long and its 2 Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing games.
2 Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing games on a team with 4 returning players, that watched a centerpiece go down 5 minutes into the season and who is missing their starting power forward on top of that.
chill with the overreactions.
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
last years team started off the season with a 5 point victory over the Nets and then a 6 point loss to the Bulls. I will take this start over that one all day long and its 2 ****ing games.
2 ****ing games on a team with 4 returning players, that watched a centerpiece go down 5 minutes into the season and who is missing their starting power forward on top of that.
chill with the overreactions.
at least there are some people who can understand their situation
they look exactly like what they are
2 games in with 4 returning player after losing their second best player
i'm not saying there gonna go to the finals this year
but it'd be foolish to think they won't be playing better by the allstar break
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
last years team started off the season with a 5 point victory over the Nets and then a 6 point loss to the Bulls. I will take this start over that one all day long and its 2 ****ing games.
2 ****ing games on a team with 4 returning players, that watched a centerpiece go down 5 minutes into the season and who is missing their starting power forward on top of that.
chill with the overreactions.
You chill .. relax
-
I can't say what will become of Kyrie, but I can say that this team looks a good deal better than last year's team -- and when Morris, and eventually Hayward, return this team will be deep and very talented.
I don't miss anyone.
ummm
I don't know...did last years team lose to the Bucks?
Yes. At home too.
-
This was the worst possible matchup for Kyrie without spacing to give him room. The Bucks are super long. He got absolutely blitzed off screens and even triple teamed. He missed some of the good shots he got but that's the game.
I'm not worried at all.
Now, the spacing is a legit concern. If you are going to pin it on Kyrie you aren't look at the whole floor.
-
To be fair, Irving is learning the role. We can give him the benefit of the doubt for awhile. Hell, maybe LBJ leads this way and he was just trying to mimic.
Patience.
People are acting like IT was the player he was last year, the first season or two with the team.
He wasn't and that revisionist history is killing me.
It's ridiculous. One of my friend is trying to act like IT was even ever good on defense. The rose colored glasses are on with him.
The team needs time. The sets were sloppy and the players said afterwards. Some of these guys have to learn 3-4 positions and they couldn't keep it straight.
If you are going to combat a team throwing double/triple teams at one guy, other guys need to step up and you need to run good sets to counter it.
-
One final thing I will say is that, although I was actually low on Morris coming into the year, he actually could play a big role on the team now and help so much. He's a guy who can get his own midrange shot and hopefully space to 3, and that would be a huge help.
-
Early returns on Kyrie the superstar #1 scoring option on a contender ... not great.
Still, gotta give the group time to gel together. Especially since they're missing one of the key cogs of the offense they thought they were going to be running.
Look at the Bucks -- several of their key guys have played together for a 2-3 years now. The Celts are going to struggle in close games, not just because Kyrie won't be able to win games by himself, but because the team as a whole is not experienced at executing together.
-
One final thing I will say is that, although I was actually low on Morris coming into the year, he actually could play a big role on the team now and help so much. He's a guy who can get his own midrange shot and hopefully space to 3, and that would be a huge help.
Could really use morris right about now
-
One final thing I will say is that, although I was actually low on Morris coming into the year, he actually could play a big role on the team now and help so much. He's a guy who can get his own midrange shot and hopefully space to 3, and that would be a huge help.
Could really use morris right about now
He is a great midrange shooter but if he can hit the three he can get a huge opportunity when he's back. I'm hopeful that he takes it on.
-
im a bit scared too. he threw up some shots that were questionable at best. seemed odd. 7 for 25 is a pretty bad home opener. i was missing IT.
-
He's a relatively small point guard that : a) plays below the rim, b) relies heavily on his speed/quickness, c) and even more so on making difficult 3s. That's combination is going to lead to a lot of variance in his performance, especially before he's fully integrated.
-
im a bit scared too. he threw up some shots that were questionable at best. seemed odd. 7 for 25 is a pretty bad home opener. i was missing IT.
IT had those days as well, its just that since he played so many games with us you remember most games he played well rather than little he played bad. Plus he had AB to fall back on.
-
One final thing I will say is that, although I was actually low on Morris coming into the year, he actually could play a big role on the team now and help so much. He's a guy who can get his own midrange shot and hopefully space to 3, and that would be a huge help.
Could really use morris right about now
He is a great midrange shooter but if he can hit the three he can get a huge opportunity when he's back. I'm hopeful that he takes it on.
The biggest impact he's going to make will be on the defensive end. I think he'll be our best wing defender now with Gordon out.
-
I counted there was two exact same turnovers by Kyrie today, an overpass to Horford that led to a steal because it was too high, it's gonna take some time for this team to really gel
Brad has a lot of work to do to get this team running
-
One final thing I will say is that, although I was actually low on Morris coming into the year, he actually could play a big role on the team now and help so much. He's a guy who can get his own midrange shot and hopefully space to 3, and that would be a huge help.
Could really use morris right about now
He is a great midrange shooter but if he can hit the three he can get a huge opportunity when he's back. I'm hopeful that he takes it on.
The biggest impact he's going to make will be on the defensive end. I think he'll be our best wing defender now with Gordon out.
He is a career 36% shooter from 3.
All of our wings right now are kids.
Brown and Tatum start and Semi and Nader back them up. Way too much youth at a crucial spot. Morris will need to be a steadying hand for the kids. Would have loved his 6'8" frame and 5 years of NBA experience to throw at James and Giannis.
-
She'll be fine.
Serious question: If you swapped out Kyrie, how many players are there in the league that could have won a championship with CLE in 2016?
-
One final thing I will say is that, although I was actually low on Morris coming into the year, he actually could play a big role on the team now and help so much. He's a guy who can get his own midrange shot and hopefully space to 3, and that would be a huge help.
Could really use morris right about now
He is a great midrange shooter but if he can hit the three he can get a huge opportunity when he's back. I'm hopeful that he takes it on.
The biggest impact he's going to make will be on the defensive end. I think he'll be our best wing defender now with Gordon out.
He is a career 36% shooter from 3.
All of our wings right now are kids.
Brown and Tatum start and Semi and Nader back them up. Way too much youth at a crucial spot. Morris will need to be a steadying hand for the kids. Would have loved his 6'8" frame and 5 years of NBA experience to throw at James and Giannis.
He can certainly make an impact on D but we can base some of the offense around his scoring ability. I don't mean to overhype him but we really can use that kind of veteran consitent scoring. We can't let a team double and even triple Kyrie and not make them pay with a jump shot.
My worry with him all along has been that his rebounding and interior D does not make him some stellar fit at 4 like people had been penciling him in, but he can score on the wing and defend on the wing. I think Brown and Tatum have shown some ability to play at the 4 (sadly I think Hayward would have as well) and there's enough to make it by in that area. We just really could use consistent offense.
-
From Jay King's article on the game:
"We messed up on a lot of plays," said Terry Rozier, who notched 15 points, seven rebounds, six assists and two steals in the defeat. "That can't happen. Like (Stevens) said after the game: We're professionals, so we better learn the plays or we won't play."
"We just got a lot of guys that can play multiple positions, so when we call out the plays, some guys just run to the spots that they can play, and it just kind of messes us up," Rozier said. "But like I said, we just gotta get it right. We're professionals, we gotta just play off one another."
Asked how to address the issue, Kyrie Irving said simply, "Learn the plays."
"Just understand the perception that we need in our preparation comes way before the games," Irving continued. "Like I said, it's going to come in waves and you see out there, we got Nader out there now, we got Shane (Larkin) out there, and to be honest with you, we haven't even, in the first group, practiced with those guys. Now they're out there playing big-time minutes and we need to utilize them and they gotta be in spots and know their spots 1 through 5. The reliance comes on the vets on this team and it trickles all the way down to the 15th guy. We gotta ... remain confident, unwavering in our approach, and we'll be fine."
The bolded sure sounds like there were a lot of mistakes. And Kyrie suggests them not playing as well. I saw a lot of comments from Jaylen as well about needing to help Kyrie out.
-
No worries, it's just Brad testing rotations and regroup the team without Hayward
Today you can see very apparent Rozier is alot better than Irving and Brad just want him to play through it and try to adjust
-
Today you can see very apparent Rozier is alot better than Irving and Brad just want him to play through it and try to adjust
When everyone got together on this team, they knew they'd had to sacrifice. It just turns out it's to Terry.
-
Today you can see very apparent Rozier is alot better than Irving and Brad just want him to play through it and try to adjust
When everyone got together on this team, they knew they'd had to sacrifice. It just turns out it's to Terry.
Sorry by him i mean Irving, this is a game for him to test and warm up to new lineup
-
Imagine what Celtics Blog will be like if this team is sitting at 1-6 by end of this month? Very realistic possibility given the schedule.
Kyrie struggled tonight but the Celtics lost because of some key defensive breakdowns by their young guys. Expect a lot more of that and a lot of inconsistent shooting because we don't shoot it all that well collectively.
Hayward's loss is going to hurt this team immensely in the short term. However the one encouraging thing is some of the guys who figured to not get a lot of minutes have been decent so far. And Brown has played 2 very good games.
Fans are going to have to be patient. This always was a two year project - even more so now with no Hayward for the foreseeable future. His talent would cover up a lot of problems we're going to be experiencing over the next several weeks - tonight's game being just one example.
-
Relax everyone, it's only the second game of the season and it's been a disrupted season for them at that. Too early to be slitting wrists. They'll figure it out. If a month or so in they still can't figure it out then it's time to start worrying.
-
im a bit scared too. he threw up some shots that were questionable at best. seemed odd. 7 for 25 is a pretty bad home opener. i was missing IT.
IT had those days as well, its just that since he played so many games with us you remember most games he played well rather than little he played bad. Plus he had AB to fall back on.
IT could usually at least get to the line a ton when his jumper wasn't falling. Kyrie brings nothing to this team when he's having a cold shooting night.
-
She'll be fine.
Serious question: If you swapped out Kyrie, how many players are there in the league that could have won a championship with CLE in 2016?
Let me fire up my time machine and find out. Be back to you in a bit with the answer...
-
Sssessh so much pessimism.
-
lol some hot takes here fresh out the oven.
Kyrie Irving is going to be an All Star and challenging John Wall and Steph Curry for the title of best point guard in the NBA soon enough after playing with Brad Stevens.
They've got 20 year old Brown, 19 year old Tatum, starting with Marcus Smart out there in their first home game on a back to back, against a team that's played together for a long time.
Kyrie Irving is going to be a 3 point machine this year.
Brad's already getting him more pass and shoot and hand off threes and he's going to become a monster from behind the line.
His D already looks way better than last year too.
We aren't winning a title this year guys, even with Hayward.
So chill out.
It was our first game at home after an emotional night, on a back to back, against an athletic solid young team who have all played a season together.
Patience my greenies.
Take a breath and think about all the improving Brown, Tatum, Rozier and Smart are going to make this season.
Think about how good we'll be when Morris returns to the starting PF spot with
Kyrie
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Horford
out there, with Smart and Rozier coming off the bench.
-
I'm in the 'wait and see' mode. But I have to admit, I wonder how Irving will fit in this team.
His passing is meh, his iso are inappropriate (coming out of the blue with no reason at all), his defense is wasted energy for the moment.
I'm not forgiving on Irving. If Danny is right with the trade, Kyrie has to be at least running for mvp and carry the team. Anything less than that is a failure, specially with what Danny gave for him.
A star is a star, he should fit right in, in any team. Specially when you are supposed to be a top iso player. No excuses.
-
I don't doubt in Kyrie at all. It was just one thing that mattered actualy - is he willing to let Stevens take him to a higher level. It seems he's in. All solved.
-
I chalk it up to the injury still being fresh in guys heads. Some practice ought to help guys a bit. Seeing stuff like that when your player can make you hesitant, especially if you have an injury history.
-
We had a shot at the end of the game against Cleveland to tie. This game bad emotion was in the air. Season is about growth and I saw it.
-
I don't doubt in Kyrie at all. It was just one thing that mattered actualy - is he willing to let Stevens take him to a higher level. It seems he's in. All solved.
He already looks all in on defence consistently. I think once the recency of the pretty awful injury dies down and Brad and the team adapt, we'll look better
-
Can we not over react after 2 games and the loss of one of the best players on the team? It's going to take time and we have a LOT of young guys, I think Morris will help add some nice veteran leadership.
-
I think having another reliable scorer in Morris return will help open things up for him.
-
im a bit scared too. he threw up some shots that were questionable at best. seemed odd. 7 for 25 is a pretty bad home opener. i was missing IT.
IT had those days as well, its just that since he played so many games with us you remember most games he played well rather than little he played bad. Plus he had AB to fall back on.
IT could usually at least get to the line a ton when his jumper wasn't falling. Kyrie brings nothing to this team when he's having a cold shooting night.
Yeah, I knew Kyrie didn't get to the line as much as IT, but I thought it was just because he was a little taller and so good around the basket that he was just able to get his shot off. I didn't realize it was because he was totally afraid of contact. I mean, he did have some really nice moves/lay-ups last night, but he really needed to keep doing that rather than bricking each and every shot from outside.
-
If we get through a few off days and our offense still looks like it did yesterday then I might worry a little. As of now, I'm not concerned. Kyrie was our only real source of offense for large chunks of the game, and the team was clearly out of sync. Kyrie didn't seem like he was unwilling to create for others, there just wasn't anybody to give the ball to last night.
-
Kyrie has always been a very streaky shooter. I mean look at his playoffs last year. Aside from the last 4 games against Boston, he was all over the map with his consistency shooting the ball.
-
::) ::)
-
I chalk it up to the injury still being fresh in guys heads. Some practice ought to help guys a bit. Seeing stuff like that when your player can make you hesitant, especially if you have an injury history.
Yeah, practice, some rest, a bit of talking over.. Should be fine.
-
So the team losses a 2nd (or 1st) biggest piece of their offense and are playing the next night filling in alot of those key minutes with 1st and 2nd years players, and we are expecting Kyrie to just cover the loss up?
Let's get realistic expectations. All the new players are learning a new playbook and the young players are also still learning the NBA.
The beginning of the season is the "hold on to a 50% winning" while they learn and have the realistic goal of being a 50 win capable (if they played like this the whole season) level team.
-
I'm not worried about anything. If you're hitting the panic button after two games, go get yourself some heart medication or something.
You lose a back to back road/home against two top 4-5 teams in the East and you lose your 2nd best player to a horrifying injury in the first quarter of the first game of the season.
Things are going to lighten up. It's October 19th.
-
It's going to be very difficult for us to remain objective about Kyrie in regards to the IT comparison. It's only natural to think of IT when we struggle to win a tight game in the 4th quarter. The fact of the matter is that IT is much more relentless and willing to take punishment than Kyrie. His body is/was also built to handle more of a beating. IT's game is probably more effective than Kyrie's on a team that lacks a legitimate secondary scoring option. Kyrie will never be able to get to the line like IT when all of the attention is focused on stopping him. IT can carry a team without scoring help much further than Kyrie.
However, it's very important for all of us to consider what this team is building towards. If the goal is to eventually beat Golden State then we are going to need an offense full of players that can score, pass, and move without the ball. IT can obviously do all of these things but Irving has a higher ceiling in this type of offense. The true upside with Irving wont be realized until all of the pieces fall into place. Kyrie's efficiency will increase dramatically once this offense is firing on all cylinders. His elite skills are ideal for a Golden State style offense.
A perfect example to illustrate this is team passes per game statistics. The Warriors were last in the league in passes per game during Mark Jackson's last season with the team. Steph Curry put up amazing numbers but his game truly exploded once Kerr came into place. We all know how amazing 2015-16 was for Curry but his ascension started during the 2nd half of their first title team. Steph shot 50% from three after the All-Star break and the Warriors were far and away the leaders in passes per game.
I am NOT saying that Kyrie will ever match Curry but I am positive that Brad Stevens is envisioning a similar scenario for Irving. I am going to miss IT's passion and grit as much as anyone, especially because there are no guarantees that Steven's vision comes to fruition. That being said, let's all try to be patient and see how everything comes together.
-
So the team losses a 2nd (or 1st) biggest piece of their offense and are playing the next night filling in alot of those key minutes with 1st and 2nd years players, and we are expecting Kyrie to just cover the loss up?
Let's get realistic expectations. All the new players are learning a new playbook and the young players are also still learning the NBA.
I'm mostly encouraged by Tatum and Brown's play so far.
Given Smart and Rozier are both PGs offensively it makes sense we're going long stretches of Kyrie off the ball, and he doesn't seem as comfortable with how that's playing out right now.
-
Yeah, tough to really panic given that they have had zero practices after a MASSIVE change to their lineup and gameplan.
-
Sorry wrong thread yall.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI7xv5ckc8
Reasons why Kyrie shot 7-25:
1) Hayward's injury
2) The actual game last night
3) First back to back, so he was tired
4) Milwaukee didn't have a game last night.
None of those things are incorrect, but an actual leader isn't out there making excuses for why he couldn't hit a shot when it mattered in a close game. I am worried about Kyrie, long term. I'm worried he doesn't know how to lead.
-
I'm not worried about anything. If you're hitting the panic button after two games, go get yourself some heart medication or something.
You lose a back to back road/home against two top 4-5 teams in the East and you lose your 2nd best player to a horrifying injury in the first quarter of the first game of the season.
Things are going to lighten up. It's October 19th.
TP. It's just difficult to post much on CB the way the season has started. However, I remain hopeful for the this season. I just have a different set of expectations now.
-
Irving's leadership and PG development were cut short by Lebron coming to Cleveland. He played second or third fiddle to one of the greatest basketball players in the history of the game all in his developmental years. It had to have an effect on him as a leader.
Also, give Kyrie a little time to adjust to playing next to two starting players that are 19 and 20 years old that were thrust into the starting line-up due to the injuries of Hayward, and Morris. Spacing was terrible last night due to this.
The acquisition of Kyrie is a long-term move, he's 25, healthy, very talented, and still growing as a leader.
-
Why do we have threads like this after two games..
-
IT's game is probably more effective than Kyrie's on a team that lacks a legitimate secondary scoring option. Kyrie will never be able to get to the line like IT when all of the attention is focused on stopping him. IT can carry a team without scoring help much further than Kyrie.
Thank you for pointing this out, because it's the biggest difference I noticed in the raw stats between IT and Kyrie.
Getting to the free throw line 8-10 times a game was the biggest part of how Isaiah went from a 20-24 ppg type guy to a 30 ppg guy.
It's really hard to be a 28-30 ppg lead scoring option if you only get to the line 3-4 times a game; doesn't matter how efficient you are.
-
IT's game is probably more effective than Kyrie's on a team that lacks a legitimate secondary scoring option. Kyrie will never be able to get to the line like IT when all of the attention is focused on stopping him. IT can carry a team without scoring help much further than Kyrie.
Thank you for pointing this out, because it's the biggest difference I noticed in the raw stats between IT and Kyrie.
Getting to the free throw line 8-10 times a game was the biggest part of how Isaiah went from a 20-24 ppg type guy to a 30 ppg guy.
It's really hard to be a 28-30 ppg lead scoring option if you only get to the line 3-4 times a game; doesn't matter how efficient you are.
He averaged nearly 26 points a game last year. Once he adjusts Kyrie should get closer to those numbers.
-
I'm not worried about anything. If you're hitting the panic button after two games, go get yourself some heart medication or something.
You lose a back to back road/home against two top 4-5 teams in the East and you lose your 2nd best player to a horrifying injury in the first quarter of the first game of the season.
Things are going to lighten up. It's October 19th.
(https://m.popkey.co/b07db7/DymEe.gif)
This is my natural state of being at all times.
More so after what happened to Hayward and watching the Cubs bullpen the past week.
-
IT's game is probably more effective than Kyrie's on a team that lacks a legitimate secondary scoring option. Kyrie will never be able to get to the line like IT when all of the attention is focused on stopping him. IT can carry a team without scoring help much further than Kyrie.
Thank you for pointing this out, because it's the biggest difference I noticed in the raw stats between IT and Kyrie.
Getting to the free throw line 8-10 times a game was the biggest part of how Isaiah went from a 20-24 ppg type guy to a 30 ppg guy.
It's really hard to be a 28-30 ppg lead scoring option if you only get to the line 3-4 times a game; doesn't matter how efficient you are.
Exactly right. It's important to acknowledge that their games are extremely different. Kyrie has the potential to reach higher level IMO but it wont happen until the entire offensive system is functioning. Nothing about this is black and white but we will still compare Kyrie to IT throughout this first season.
-
I'm not worried about anything. If you're hitting the panic button after two games, go get yourself some heart medication or something.
You lose a back to back road/home against two top 4-5 teams in the East and you lose your 2nd best player to a horrifying injury in the first quarter of the first game of the season.
Things are going to lighten up. It's October 19th.
(https://m.popkey.co/b07db7/DymEe.gif)
This is my natural state of being at all times.
More so after what happened to Hayward and watching the Cubs bullpen the past week.
I can't blame you there one bit. Can only imagine the PTSD from the next Carl Edwards Jr. appearance.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI7xv5ckc8
Reasons why Kyrie shot 7-25:
1) Hayward's injury
2) The actual game last night
3) First back to back, so he was tired
4) Milwaukee didn't have a game last night.
None of those things are incorrect, but an actual leader isn't out there making excuses for why he couldn't hit a shot when it mattered in a close game. I am worried about Kyrie, long term. I'm worried he doesn't know how to lead.
Such crap. I happen to have seen every interview after games over the last few seasons, with the way you see it we have never had a leader, especially if people considered IT4 or Jae one.
-
IT's game is probably more effective than Kyrie's on a team that lacks a legitimate secondary scoring option. Kyrie will never be able to get to the line like IT when all of the attention is focused on stopping him. IT can carry a team without scoring help much further than Kyrie.
Thank you for pointing this out, because it's the biggest difference I noticed in the raw stats between IT and Kyrie.
Getting to the free throw line 8-10 times a game was the biggest part of how Isaiah went from a 20-24 ppg type guy to a 30 ppg guy.
It's really hard to be a 28-30 ppg lead scoring option if you only get to the line 3-4 times a game; doesn't matter how efficient you are.
Exactly right. It's important to acknowledge that their games are extremely different. Kyrie has the potential to reach higher level IMO but it wont happen until the entire offensive system is functioning. Nothing about this is black and white but we will still compare Kyrie to IT throughout this first season.
I agree with these posts so far watching Kyrie. I do think that Kyrie can adapt and learn in this area. You especially need to do this when you are the guy on a team (LeBron is maybe the best ever at doing this so it was going to be him on the Cavs). It is a skill.
My friend and I developed an IT rule with IT where you don't complain or worry about his scoring because he would always claw his way to 20 at least, especially going to the line. IT was excellent at getting to the line, so it's a high bar. He maximized his quickness to draw fouls.
-
I see a lot of people mentioning Kyrie's leadership. He was never a leader, and may never be one. I'm not sure leadership is 100% learnable. Smart was a leader from day one, he didn't have to wait his turn on the team to lead or study another player to learn how to do it. Just because Kyrie is an allstar level player and gifted scorer does not have anything to do with him being a leader. He will give us 25pts per game with great ballhandling and shooting. To expect anything more may be unreasonable.
-
Kyrie Irving sucks. Give Rozier the starting PG position. Sit Horford for Baynes. Also I would fire Brad and give Micah Shrewsberry the keys to the kingdom.
-
CBS will find a way to get Kyrie better looks when the team has time to find out what works for them. It's not like Kyrie is in the same system as we had last season, every starter surrounding IT4 gave him space to shoot/drive. The only player out there that is a 3pt shooter/maker is AH. Jaylen was solid last season but he wasn't the starter, the guys he is replacing were much better 3pt shooters. Kind of hard to have pace and space with a whole new team and a team full of guys who aren't proven in the NBA much less as 3pt shooters. AB & Jae (KO/JJoff the bench) were essentially 40% 3pt shooters. Amir was a threat even though he took far less (was good at shooting but it took to long). Now, besides AH name one player surrounding Kyrie that the opponent will be fearful of their 3pt shooting. I'm not even sure the opponents look at what is around Kyrie and are worried that any of them can shoot yet. Smart can't yet, JB can dunk and was okay from 3 last season, Tatum is a rookie, Roze is solid but inconsistent and unproven, Theis/Semi/Baynes/Nader/Yabu are either non 3pt shooters or unproven rookie shooters.
All this adds up to us needing to find an entirely new way for not only Kyrie to score/get open but for the young guys to find their way. I just don't know why people are judging this team from go when last season we struggled out of the gate with only Horford/JB being new and JB wasn't getting many minutes.
Really, this continues to boil down to how much people underrated the guys surrounding IT4.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI7xv5ckc8
Reasons why Kyrie shot 7-25:
1) Hayward's injury
2) The actual game last night
3) First back to back, so he was tired
4) Milwaukee didn't have a game last night.
None of those things are incorrect, but an actual leader isn't out there making excuses for why he couldn't hit a shot when it mattered in a close game. I am worried about Kyrie, long term. I'm worried he doesn't know how to lead.
Such crap. I happen to have seen every interview after games over the last few seasons, with the way you see it we have never had a leader, especially if people considered IT4 or Jae one.
I don't believe you. Show me those videos where during a losing streak a guy blames everyone but himself. If you like that style of 'leading', cool. But don't tell me it's crap if you're not coming with anything besides your own expertise. I got some other good comments from last night:
RE: On being outplayed:
“We gotta capitalize on a lot of mistakes we made tonight. We messed up on a lot of plays, and that can’t happen. We gotta be professional, we got to learn the plays or we won’t play.”
RE: On being a leader:
“I gotta come off the bench and step up, and make sure the guys that are coming off the bench with me – make sure we’re on the same page. I told a couple guys it was my fault that we weren’t capitalizing on a lot of plays tonight. I gotta do a better job at making sure everybody is in the right position, and yelling out the plays.”
That's Terry Rozier. He gets it.
-
Referring specifically to the OP, I'm worried about Kyrie as well.
Before he even got here he was talking about becoming a leader... the problem with that is that the Celtics had already established a culture and identity around the league that Kyrie has to learn first and then he can lead once he's doing all the things the Celtic's culture promote.
Averaging the most points doesn't automatically make you the leader of a team...
I'm actually liking Horford's personality on the court now... it's very aggressive and a bit more chippy.
-
I see a lot of people mentioning Kyrie's leadership. He was never a leader, and may never be one. I'm not sure leadership is 100% learnable. Smart was a leader from day one, he didn't have to wait his turn on the team to lead or study another player to learn how to do it. Just because Kyrie is an allstar level player and gifted scorer does not have anything to do with him being a leader. He will give us 25pts per game with great ballhandling and shooting. To expect anything more may be unreasonable.
This I kind of agree with. I'm not upset with him shooting 7-25, I'm not upset with him disappearing when it mattered most.
It's more in how he carried it, maybe he's just a moody millennial and that's how this is all gonna go, and Smart or Hayward or Morris will do all the talkin.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI7xv5ckc8
Reasons why Kyrie shot 7-25:
1) Hayward's injury
2) The actual game last night
3) First back to back, so he was tired
4) Milwaukee didn't have a game last night.
None of those things are incorrect, but an actual leader isn't out there making excuses for why he couldn't hit a shot when it mattered in a close game. I am worried about Kyrie, long term. I'm worried he doesn't know how to lead.
Such crap. I happen to have seen every interview after games over the last few seasons, with the way you see it we have never had a leader, especially if people considered IT4 or Jae one.
I don't believe you. Show me those videos where during a losing streak a guy blames everyone but himself. If you like that style of 'leading', cool. But don't tell me it's crap if you're not coming with anything besides your own expertise. I got some other good comments from last night:
RE: On being outplayed:
“We gotta capitalize on a lot of mistakes we made tonight. We messed up on a lot of plays, and that can’t happen. We gotta be professional, we got to learn the plays or we won’t play.”
RE: On being a leader:
“I gotta come off the bench and step up, and make sure the guys that are coming off the bench with me – make sure we’re on the same page. I told a couple guys it was my fault that we weren’t capitalizing on a lot of plays tonight. I gotta do a better job at making sure everybody is in the right position, and yelling out the plays.”
That's Terry Rozier. He gets it.
Lol go look for yourself! There are videos of Jae and IT4 blaming CBS! No, you guys didn't want to see it! There are other videos saying what Kyrie said about other guys needing to step up too! I'm not going through the hundreds of videos over the last 3 seasons, I don't care if you don't believe me, I know they said things.
When Tatum was out there playing tentative and like a rookie it was Kyrie who was coaching him up and talking to him before he started to calm down and find his way. Also there was video in both games of him on the sidelines trying to get things across to the other guys/coaching them up.
I love Terry and I already saw the video but thanks.
-
Lol go look for yourself! There are videos of Jae and IT4 blaming CBS! No, you guys didn't want to see it! There are other videos saying what Kyrie said about other guys needing to step up too! I'm not going through the hundreds of videos over the last 3 seasons, I don't care if you don't believe me, I know they said things.
Who? What? When?
When Tatum was out there playing tentative and like a rookie it was Kyrie who was coaching him up and talking to him before he started to calm down and find his way. Also there was video in both games of him on the sidelines trying to get things across to the other guys/coaching them up.
That's good, I'll look harder for that in the future.
I love Terry and I already saw the video but thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM
-
Lol go look for yourself! There are videos of Jae and IT4 blaming CBS! No, you guys didn't want to see it! There are other videos saying what Kyrie said about other guys needing to step up too! I'm not going through the hundreds of videos over the last 3 seasons, I don't care if you don't believe me, I know they said things.
Who? What? When?
Off the top of my head, I remember the time IT was blaming CBS, saying they were losing because he wasn't defining their roles clearly.
-
Isaiah Thomas blaming Brad Stevens for tinkering with roles this deep into the season (65 games).
Worth noting that the final 2 minutes of the Suns loss that he attributed to Brad Stevens were some of the worst 2 minutes Id ever seen him play as we p---ed away a winnable game to the lowly suns because IT wanted to play hero ball and stick it to his old team.
"We should have won this game," Thomas said following the loss. "We should have won last night [at Phoenix]. We can't be experimenting in Game 63."
When asked to elaborate, Thomas said, "You can watch film and you know what it is"
http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/isaiah-thomas-harsh-words-boston-celtics-players-coaches-after-loss-to-los-angeles-clippers
Thomas and Crowder complained about set rotations often last year. Thomas also pointed blame towards officials in the playoffs and said after one game that coaches, players and everybody is to blame.
Leaders dont have to jump up to the podium and claim responsibility for every single loss. I felt Irving made reasonable comments. There is no good way to handle a bad night. The best way to handle it is to not have another one.
David Price was remarkably candid after his bad performances early on taking full responsibility for each one and it didnt win him any favor as a leader. Leaders perform on the field, not on the podium.
-
Anyone who keeps saying they miss IT, blah blah blah, DO NOT FORGET he is out for MONTHS!! lol! Then he's a FA
-
It's way too early to compare leadership between IT and Kyrie. This is especially true because they are DIFFERENT. IT is an emotional leader who carries a swagger that is contagious. He relishes the opportunity to put the team on his back during close games. Kyrie doesn't outwardly show the same characteristics but there is nothing wrong with that. For all we know Kyrie will turn out to be instrumental in helping our young guys reach their full potential. His willingness to adapt to CBS system will also set the tone for the rest of the team. There are many different ways to show leadership and we need to give Kyrie time to find his groove.
Anyone who wants similar leadership to IT should be looking straight towards Jaylen Brown. He plays with a certain swagger and fearlessness that most players don't have. Don't be surprised if he becomes the emotional leader within a few years.