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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2013, 03:28:32 PM

Title: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2013, 03:28:32 PM
Now, the premsise of the article is speculation on loose rumors. There is no news here, and there are no solid leads. This is speculation only, and idle speculation at that (I'm assuming idle speculation is the worst).

Quote from: The best deals for top trade targets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130204/nba-best-deals-top-trade-targets)
Israel Gutierrez, ESPN.com: Garnett and Fab Melo to Chicago for Joakim Noah and Marco Belinelli. No trade at all is their best bet. The Celtics are unlikely to get anything close to equal value for Garnett, who's so vital to what Boston does and fits in so well with Rajon Rondo. And if there's any indication he won't play out the final two years of his deal, that's even less leverage for the Celtics. But if -- and this is a huge if -- they can get something significant for KG, I'd do this deal.

Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.

Curtis Harris, Hardwood Paroxysm: Kevin Garnett to Nuggets for JaVale McGee. Going to Denver keeps KG on a playoff team that needs his defensive prowess in the interior. Meanwhile, Boston would get McGee, who may still blossom into a competent defensive force in his own right. And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks.

Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Kevin Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.

Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Fab Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential, and Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same frontline? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.

I'd put in a kidney if the thunder sent back Perkins, Lamb, Jones, and the Toronto pick.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: wdleehi on February 04, 2013, 03:30:19 PM
The Clipperblog one is funny.


So is the Denver trade.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Snakehead on February 04, 2013, 03:33:44 PM
The Clipperblog one is funny.


So is the Denver trade.

Seriously.

KG for Javale?  C'mon.

The end of the Denver deal write up is hilarious "And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks."

LOL wow sounds appealing.  All that value coming back from the trade.  I like how he puts our team being dreadful in there at the end like it's a perk to the trade.  It's not like McGee is a bargain.  That's a joke.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: jgod213 on February 04, 2013, 03:39:09 PM
I don't understand, why would Chicago want anything to do with that deal? Are they so desperate for financial flexibility that they would consider this?

Taj Gibson is real solid, but Noah brings more. I don't get that idea for Chicago.


Similarly, why would SA want to move Leonard, who is essentially their answer to Kevin Durant for the next decade?  Splitter has proven to be a real commodity as well. Idle speculation indeed, my friend.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: rondohondo on February 04, 2013, 03:41:30 PM
IMO The best trades they can make are

LAC sends: Odom,Bledsoe,Jordan
Bos sends: KG, terry, Bass

OKC sends: Perk, Lamb, Perry Jones + tornto 1st
Bos sends: KG

Spurs send: Splitter , Leonard, Jackson(expiring)
Bos sends : KG and Terry


Might do the clippers and spurs trade, probably not the okc one since Toronto is playing better.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: wdleehi on February 04, 2013, 03:46:01 PM
IMO The best trades they can make are

LAC sends: Odom,Bledsoe,Jordan
Bos sends: KG, terry, Bass

OKC sends: Perk, Lamb, Perry Jones + tornto 1st
Bos sends: KG

Spurs send: Splitter , Leonard, Jackson(expiring)
Bos sends : KG and Terry


The Clippers trade is awful.


The Celtics do not need another small G as part of the rebuilding phase.

The Celtics do not need to overpay a guy just because he is 7 foot tall and has physical gifts (when he doesn't put them to great use)

And another backup SF?


I could sort of deal with the OKC deal because you could flip Perk for a shorter deal and another trade asset. 

I think the Spur trade replaces KG with a pair of good players that are going to be the cap choking deals when the team does not have it stars in place.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Fafnir on February 04, 2013, 03:47:42 PM
I don't understand, why would Chicago want anything to do with that deal? Are they so desperate for financial flexibility that they would consider this?

Taj Gibson is real solid, but Noah brings more. I don't get that idea for Chicago.


Similarly, why would SA want to move Leonard, who is essentially their answer to Kevin Durant for the next decade?  Splitter has proven to be a real commodity as well. Idle speculation indeed, my friend.
Yeah the Chicago one struck me most of all as being wild.

Not surprised by it though given the source, not a fan of his work.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 04, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
IMO The best trades they can make are

LAC sends: Odom,Bledsoe,Jordan
Bos sends: KG, terry, Bass

OKC sends: Perk, Lamb, Perry Jones + tornto 1st
Bos sends: KG

Spurs send: Splitter , Leonard, Jackson(expiring)
Bos sends : KG and Terry


Might do the clippers and spurs trade, probably not the okc one since Toronto is playing better.

I think OKC should consider keeping Perk and KG together with Ibaka. That's incredible defensiver personnel in the paint. Arguably the best post defender, pick and roll defender, and rim protector all on the same team.

Kevin Martin, Eric Maynor, and the Toronto pick
for
KG and Jason Terry

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wq5xap
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2013, 03:53:49 PM
I could sort of deal with the OKC deal because you could flip Perk for a shorter deal and another trade asset. 

Plus, we have a full year before we have to do anything about Perkins contract. Assuming we keep Pierce on the books, we're capped out between Rondo, Pierce, Bass, and Green next season anyways.

If we were going to make a move in free agency, it wouldn't happen until 2014 or later. Almost certainly later.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Who on February 04, 2013, 03:56:12 PM
Quote
Pau Gasol and Chris Duhon to the Bucks for Ersan Ilyasova, Beno Udrih, Tobias Harris, and Joel Przybilla.

The Pau Gasol trade idea with the Milwaukee Bucks is pretty interesting. It'd be better if Milwaukee kept hold of Tobias Harris and gave LA something else.

Pau Gasol and Larry Sanders would be an interesting big man combo.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Snakehead on February 04, 2013, 03:56:58 PM
Armchair GM trade suggestions have just about worn out their welcome for me.  And when they come from pro writers, well, that just makes me laugh.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 04, 2013, 03:57:18 PM
I could sort of deal with the OKC deal because you could flip Perk for a shorter deal and another trade asset. 

Plus, we have a full year before we have to do anything about Perkins contract. Assuming we keep Pierce on the books, we're capped out between Rondo, Pierce, Bass, and Green next season anyways.

If we were going to make a move in free agency, it wouldn't happen until 2014 or later. Almost certainly later.

I think Perkins being on the roster would be a MAJOR reason KG waived the No Trade Clause to go to OKC.

I think us taking on Martin and them replacing him with Jet is more feasible.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Evantime34 on February 04, 2013, 04:00:18 PM
The only deal I don't do out of those is McGee to Boston. We would need first in that one. The Pierce deals on the other hand none are to my liking.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on February 04, 2013, 04:06:37 PM
I love KG but the OKC deal is hard to say no to
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Evantime34 on February 04, 2013, 04:10:28 PM
Armchair GM trade suggestions have just about worn out their welcome for me.  And when they come from pro writers, well, that just makes me laugh.
I love Armchair gm pieces.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Snakehead on February 04, 2013, 04:13:18 PM
Armchair GM trade suggestions have just about worn out their welcome for me.  And when they come from pro writers, well, that just makes me laugh.
I love Armchair gm pieces.

A lot of people do.  Trade Machine exists for a reason.

I realize I'm in the minority here.  Maybe I'm just a stubborn fan who wants KG and Piece here, even if they go down with the ship.  Maybe I'm just tired of NBA rumors in the twitter age.  I don't know.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 04, 2013, 04:17:36 PM
None at all imo
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: action781 on February 04, 2013, 04:29:04 PM
I love KG but the OKC deal is hard to say no to
Same and same goes for the SA deal too.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 04:31:12 PM
I love KG but the OKC deal is hard to say no to
Same and same goes for the SA deal too.
The OKC deal is probably the worst of the lot, it's a combination of spare parts and redundant pieces. And a pick. Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

The Chicago deal is probably the best. But there's zero chance that the Bulls will move Noah for Garnett.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: scaryjerry on February 04, 2013, 04:35:08 PM
They're all garbage

Rather sink with the kg ship and go down shooting then pull the trigger on those abysmal and laughable trades
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: sofutomygaha on February 04, 2013, 04:44:16 PM
Rather sink with the kg ship and go down shooting then pull the trigger on those abysmal and laughable trades

I love Kevin Garnett

BUT

We live in a city where one franchise has dominated, in a salary cap league, for more than a decade. To stay competitive, they have maintained an unsentimental front office. They have let a ton of fan favorites go over the years- Randy Moss, Richard Seymour, and Deon Branch.

It just seems obvious that, at some point, you will have chances to make your team better by cutting bait. When folks post that Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett should retire as Celtics no matter what, or that you could never ever trade them for a package of young blue chip players, I feel like they just aren't making the connection.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Roy H. on February 04, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
When folks post that Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett should retire as Celtics no matter what, or that you could never ever trade them for a package of young blue chip players, I feel like they just aren't making the connection.

Most of the trades that have a chance of actually happening don't involve young blue chip players.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Casperian on February 04, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: scaryjerry on February 04, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
Rather sink with the kg ship and go down shooting then pull the trigger on those abysmal and laughable trades

I love Kevin Garnett

BUT

We live in a city where one franchise has dominated, in a salary cap league, for more than a decade. To stay competitive, they have maintained an unsentimental front office. They have let a ton of fan favorites go over the years- Randy Moss, Richard Seymour, and Deon Branch.

It just seems obvious that, at some point, you will have chances to make your team better by cutting bait. When folks post that Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett should retire as Celtics no matter what, or that you could never ever trade them for a package of young blue chip players, I feel like they just aren't making the connection.

I'd part with him...for something worth it...these are not, none of these deals bring us anywhere but worse now and the foreseeable future

I'd also rather part with pierce myself...I'm not sentimental about him being a career long Celtic...what exactly did he bring us pre kg? Not much. As long as kg is here we're respectable.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 04, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
KG is my favorite player.

Hope he retires a Celtic......Same for Pierce

want to trade somebody ....dump Rondo ...please
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 04, 2013, 05:04:41 PM
KG is my favorite player.

Hope he retires a Celtic......Same for Pierce

want to trade somebody ....dump Rondo ...please

All three stay
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 05:05:31 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 04, 2013, 05:10:42 PM
The best Kevin Garnett Trade is to NOT do one...don't trade either him OR PAUL PIERCE...

Some of the rumors out there as far as what we'd get for KG...if I were Danny, I'd hang up the phone.

These C's aren't some carcass for the buzzards to pick off of.....I think this team can still do some things...as a fan, I have the right to believe.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Casperian on February 04, 2013, 05:18:01 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.

Give you what? A second-round exit?
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: KGs Knee on February 04, 2013, 05:24:58 PM
I am so glad KG made cetain to hve a no-trade trade clause put in his contract.

That way, no matter how many ludicrous, off-the-wall ideas people pull out of their you-know-what, I can sleep easy knowing it's nothing but talk.

KG AIN'T GETTING TRADED!  ACCEPT IT.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: D Dub on February 04, 2013, 05:25:21 PM
if this is the best that's out there, would rather stand pat.  all these ideas -- ALL of em -- make us worse & the other team much much better.

reality is, C's are just too deep to effectively 'tank'.  I mean, have you seen the likes of Sac, NO, Cha and Phx play?  no way we can out-crap those teams. 

When you already have such a solid & young core -- what's the point in completely starting over?  Go that route, and we'll watch Rondo leave too.

On the other hand, with KG and Pierce this year and next, Wyc still gets to sell playoff tickets and when they retire, we become THE destination for top free agents.  Much safer bet than David's ping pong balls... 

Think about it, who wouldn't want to play with a supporting cast of Rondo/Green + a couple pit-bull defenders in Lee and Bradley?  That's a perfect core for a 1st rate stud to come into.   

all this trade machine crap is simply fodder for the bored cubicle jockey, BSPN.com's vain attempt at fishing for web hits...
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Levis107 on February 04, 2013, 05:34:37 PM
The best deal out of all those is the Spurs trade, but I don't think San Antonio does it. Leonard is Popovich's guy. I don't get the OKC deal. Perk is horrible and Jones and Lamb haven't proved anything. You'd basically be dealing for the draft pick.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 05:37:44 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.

Give you what? A second-round exit?
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year. The trade with OKC gives us a round wad of nothing.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Casperian on February 04, 2013, 05:38:04 PM
if this is the best that's out there, would rather stand pat.  all these ideas -- ALL of em -- make us worse & the other team much much better.

Oh, that´s great.

People make these outlandish, absolute statements, but as soon as someone posts a trade idea, the same people call him an armchair GM.

You´re all acting like Theo Huxtable, trying to argue your way out of the realities of life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFY0HBkUm8o
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Casperian on February 04, 2013, 05:39:11 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.

Give you what? A second-round exit?
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year. The trade with OKC gives us a round wad of nothing.

We haven´t won a title in 5 years, in other words, half a decade. That ship has sailed a long time ago.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: ManUp on February 04, 2013, 05:39:33 PM
Now, the premsise of the article is speculation on loose rumors. There is no news here, and there are no solid leads. This is speculation only, and idle speculation at that (I'm assuming idle speculation is the worst).

Quote from: The best deals for top trade targets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130204/nba-best-deals-top-trade-targets)
Israel Gutierrez, ESPN.com: Garnett and Fab Melo to Chicago for Joakim Noah and Marco Belinelli. No trade at all is their best bet. The Celtics are unlikely to get anything close to equal value for Garnett, who's so vital to what Boston does and fits in so well with Rajon Rondo. And if there's any indication he won't play out the final two years of his deal, that's even less leverage for the Celtics. But if -- and this is a huge if -- they can get something significant for KG, I'd do this deal.

Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.

Curtis Harris, Hardwood Paroxysm: Kevin Garnett to Nuggets for JaVale McGee. Going to Denver keeps KG on a playoff team that needs his defensive prowess in the interior. Meanwhile, Boston would get McGee, who may still blossom into a competent defensive force in his own right. And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks.

Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Kevin Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.

Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Fab Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential, and Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same frontline? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.

I'd put in a kidney if the thunder sent back Perkins, Lamb, Jones, and the Toronto pick.

I'd be willing to add to that donation as well.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: sofutomygaha on February 04, 2013, 05:42:38 PM
Most of the trades that have a chance of actually happening don't involve young blue chip players.

But Roy, this thread started with names like Joakim Noah, Eric Bledsoe, Deandre Jordan, and Kawhi Leonard!
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 04, 2013, 05:43:53 PM
The best Kevin Garnett trade is that he retires at the end of next season after winning another title and, as a final gift to the Celtics, is traded in July in a pure salary dump as another team sends a useful but slightly overpaid player(s) making $8-10m that it doesn't want to pay in exchange for the ability to waive KG while the final season of his contract is only half guaranteed and throwing in a young player and/or draft pick for that privilege.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 04, 2013, 05:45:38 PM
If we're looking to stay competitive, Chicago's deal is a no-brainer.  Noah is a great defender and underrated offensive player, and Bellinini can really shoot the ball.

OKC's deal look attractive on paper, but I'm not so sure I would do it.  The Raptors are improving, so we might get a pick that isn't so far from our own.  Plus, both Lamb and Jones III have questionable motors (at least they did coming out of college) so we don't know if they pan out or not.  You can't forget that Perk is cooked and overpaid.

The other proposals suck.


Edit: Never mind.  I didn't see that we get Kawhi from San Antonio.  That's really tempting.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 05:53:32 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.

Give you what? A second-round exit?
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year. The trade with OKC gives us a round wad of nothing.

We haven´t won a title in 5 years, in other words, half a decade. That ship has sailed a long time ago.
Right. We've only been to the finals, and to a couple of EC finals. Peanuts.

If you can please explain how trading Garnett for the calcified remains of the player that was once Kendrick Perkins and a pile of, well, garbage helps us in the long or short term, be my guest.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on February 04, 2013, 05:57:05 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.

Give you what? A second-round exit?
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year. The trade with OKC gives us a round wad of nothing.

We haven´t won a title in 5 years, in other words, half a decade. That ship has sailed a long time ago.

I'm with you..I don't get the point of holding onto KG and pp just because. You stay just good enough to not get in the lottery but too bad to win anything? The worst place you can be in the nba.

I'm not saying you give these guys away but it baffles me when people say let them sink with the ship..stubborn pride.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: MBunge on February 04, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year.

And makes the inevitable rebuilding process just a little bit harder for every year older KG gets, all for a team that was under .500 halfway through the season with both KG, Rondo and Sully healthy.

Mike
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 06:04:47 PM
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year.

And makes the inevitable rebuilding process just a little bit harder for every year older KG gets, all for a team that was under .500 halfway through the season with both KG, Rondo and Sully healthy.
No, it doesn't. The trade with OKC (which I am specifically discussing here) does not put you any closer to rebuilding that holding on to Garnett does.

I'm all for rebuilding. But if your idea of "inevitable rebuilding process" is Perkins (paid a ton of money for the same amount of years as Garnett), Jeremy Lamb (who hasn't even shown he's an NBA player), and PJIII (who was red-flagged for his knee) then I'm just going to laugh at you.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: D Dub on February 04, 2013, 06:09:11 PM


You´re all acting like Theo Huxtable, trying to argue your way out of the realities of life.



What was that about outlandish, absolute statements?

Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: D Dub on February 04, 2013, 06:11:00 PM
What I find outlandish is the notion that getting worse guarantee's you'll eventually get a banner. 

Reality is there isn't a good deal for KG or PP out there.  If there was, Danny would make it. 
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 04, 2013, 06:13:39 PM
I'm with you..I don't get the point of holding onto KG and pp just because. You stay just good enough to not get in the lottery but too bad to win anything? The worst place you can be in the nba.

The problem is if you are locked into a core of players who have you cemented on the treadmill of mediocrity for several years.  I'd argue that whether or not you hold onto Garnett and Pierce, the Celtics as currently structured are built to have this core intact through next season (or possibly one season after that).  That's when the team starts to have cap space and expiring contracts that can be used in a rebuilding process.  There is a natural built-in expiration date for this team.  Whether this team can reload or whether it has to clear the decks for a more long-term rebuilding project depends on Ainge and what is available.

One thing that could change that is if Pierce and Garnett both retire, but I expect them to believe that this team has a shot at contention next season.  Another thing that could change the plan is if Ainge can acquire a superstar worthy of a max-contract.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on February 04, 2013, 06:22:30 PM
I'm with you..I don't get the point of holding onto KG and pp just because. You stay just good enough to not get in the lottery but too bad to win anything? The worst place you can be in the nba.

The problem is if you are locked into a core of players who have you cemented on the treadmill of mediocrity for several years.  I'd argue that whether or not you hold onto Garnett and Pierce, the Celtics as currently structured are built to have this core intact through next season (or possibly one season after that).  That's when the team starts to have cap space and expiring contracts that can be used in a rebuilding process.  There is a natural built-in expiration date for this team.  Whether this team can reload or whether it has to clear the decks for a more long-term rebuilding project depends on Ainge and what is available.

One thing that could change that is if Pierce and Garnett both retire, but I expect them to believe that this team has a shot at contention next season.  Another thing that could change the plan is if Ainge can acquire a superstar worthy of a max-contract.

I actually agree with you about how this teams salary cap situation is but even afterwards everybody keeps saying go get a great free agent!

Who was the last very good player who signed in Boston?
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Casperian on February 04, 2013, 06:25:39 PM
Right. We've only been to the finals, and to a couple of EC finals. Peanuts.

If you can please explain how trading Garnett for the calcified remains of the player that was once Kendrick Perkins and a pile of, well, garbage helps us in the long or short term, be my guest.

No, I can´t, because you are right in saying that this specific trade idea isn´t good.

Doesn´t change the fact that keeping KG should be absolutely out of the question, since he can almost single-handedly keep us a good NBA team, good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win it all, which is rightly considered the worst place to be in this league.

You´re not winning a title in the NBA without top-talent, and usually, you´re not getting it in the middle of the draft. The whole point of the lottery is to give the best young players to the worst teams.

And no, it´s not peanuts. We´re just not winning a championship. What I was trying to get at was that you can´t simply use success from 5 years ago to extrapolate it to future success, which is the common train of thought in this kind of arguments.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 04, 2013, 06:26:26 PM
Cap space means you can also trade for big salaries without having to match salaries.  It means you can take on a toxic contract in exchange for a likely lottery pick.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: MBunge on February 04, 2013, 06:28:03 PM
Gives us a chance to be competitive each year.

And makes the inevitable rebuilding process just a little bit harder for every year older KG gets, all for a team that was under .500 halfway through the season with both KG, Rondo and Sully healthy.
No, it doesn't. The trade with OKC (which I am specifically discussing here) does not put you any closer to rebuilding that holding on to Garnett does.

I'm all for rebuilding. But if your idea of "inevitable rebuilding process" is Perkins (paid a ton of money for the same amount of years as Garnett), Jeremy Lamb (who hasn't even shown he's an NBA player), and PJIII (who was red-flagged for his knee) then I'm just going to laugh at you.

And I've gone over this before with you, but it doesn't seem to sink in.  Whatever you may think of Perkins, Lamb and PJII, they're better than nothing.  3 years from now, a Celtic team with those 3 guys will be far more "competitive" than a team where KG has just retired and Boston has nothing more than some salary cap space.

Now, I frankly don't think the Thunder trade is really worth it, myself.  But what some folks apparently don't understand is that there is NO WAY that you can flip KG and/or Pierce for ANYTHING that's going to automatically maintain Boston at the level they've been the last 5 years.  No one's going to give you an all-star for them.  No one's going to give you a franchise young player.  No one is going to give you a lottery 1st rounder.  The best you're going to get for either of them is assets which can be used to make the team better in the future.

KG is not going to be playing 5 in Boston years from now.  He probably won't be playing 3 years from now and may not even be playing next year.  Do you want there to be something left behind when he's gone...or do you want the team to have nothing?

I don't have a problem, really, with anyone who just wants KG to retire as a Celtic and is willing to deal with the probable consequences of that.  Your apparent denial about those consequences and how they'll have to be dealt with is the only laughable thing in this thread.

Well, that and the McGee trade.

Mike
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: saltlover on February 04, 2013, 06:31:03 PM
I'm with you..I don't get the point of holding onto KG and pp just because. You stay just good enough to not get in the lottery but too bad to win anything? The worst place you can be in the nba.

The problem is if you are locked into a core of players who have you cemented on the treadmill of mediocrity for several years.  I'd argue that whether or not you hold onto Garnett and Pierce, the Celtics as currently structured are built to have this core intact through next season (or possibly one season after that).  That's when the team starts to have cap space and expiring contracts that can be used in a rebuilding process.  There is a natural built-in expiration date for this team.  Whether this team can reload or whether it has to clear the decks for a more long-term rebuilding project depends on Ainge and what is available.

One thing that could change that is if Pierce and Garnett both retire, but I expect them to believe that this team has a shot at contention next season.  Another thing that could change the plan is if Ainge can acquire a superstar worthy of a max-contract.

I actually agree with you about how this teams salary cap situation is but even afterwards everybody keeps saying go get a great free agent!

Who was the last very good player who signed in Boston?

David West sounded like he was on his way, but he required a sign-and-trade, and a trading partner couldn't be found in the lockout shortened offseason that year.

But thats the problem with sign and trades.  When was the last time the Celts had more than the mid-level to offer a free agent?
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: nostar on February 04, 2013, 06:38:02 PM
Now, the premsise of the article is speculation on loose rumors. There is no news here, and there are no solid leads. This is speculation only, and idle speculation at that (I'm assuming idle speculation is the worst).

Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.

Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Kevin Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.

Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Fab Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential, and Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same frontline? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.

I'm really glad at least some pundits still believe KG has value. Couple of things:

Not sure I part with Bradley to add Bledsoe. At best that is a lateral move. We also most likely won't give him enough playing time with Rondo healthy anyway. Nice trade chip but I'm not sure he's more valuable than Bradley. I'd take KG/Melo for Bledsoe/Jordon but that is the minimum I think.

The Thunder trade is my favorite because we get Perk back and 2 really interesting prospects. I personally think asking for Toronto's pick is too much but if they want to include it I'm game :)

I feel similarly about the Spurs trade as I do with the Clippers. I think Leonard is a great prospect, I think Splitter is proficient and could be a really solid center. Diaw is not an expiring so I'm less thrilled to get him but I don't take the Spurs seriously as trade partners. Duncan would line-item-veto a KG trade before it even got leaked.

KG to the Thunder makes then Champions for the next 3 years, health willing.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Who on February 04, 2013, 06:38:14 PM
The cap space is what I want.

Two extra years to try find quality talent with that cap room and/or the ability to collect additional assets by renting out cap space for picks/prospects from teams looking to offload bad contracts.

Plus, improved slots higher up in the draft. Likely in the 8-12 range rather than the 15-19 range.

Both are valuable routes to improve Boston's rebuilding efforts.

If someone will give up a couple of late picks or solid prospects on the top of that, that is just a bonus to me. It's not so much about the talent coming back directly from the trade as the increased flexibility to add talent further down the road via free agency or the draft.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 06:41:00 PM
And I've gone over this before with you, but it doesn't seem to sink in.  Whatever you may think of Perkins, Lamb and PJII, they're better than nothing.  3 years from now, a Celtic team with those 3 guys will be far more "competitive" than a team where KG has just retired and Boston has nothing more than some salary cap space.
That's because you somehow mistakently believe that those guys have any potential as NBA players 3 years from now.

As a matter of fact, I find all three will be out of the league by that time more likely than at least one of them being a reasonable NBA starter by the time when Garnett's contract expires.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: manl_lui on February 04, 2013, 06:42:14 PM
none, KG is the heart and soul of the Celtics with Pierce and Rondo...

no KG, Miami will love the free ride to the finals...
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Casperian on February 04, 2013, 06:45:28 PM


You´re all acting like Theo Huxtable, trying to argue your way out of the realities of life.


What was that about outlandish, absolute statements?

You tell me. What was that?
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: StartOrien on February 04, 2013, 06:49:30 PM


You´re all acting like Theo Huxtable, trying to argue your way out of the realities of life.


What was that about outlandish, absolute statements?

You tell me. What was that?

(http://students.nridge.net/Computers/HTML/2008_09_5th6th/StudentWebServer/IsoE3078/pics/large_Kevin-Garnett-Dunks.jpg)

Jammin on the one!
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticG1 on February 04, 2013, 06:55:07 PM
I don't understand, why would Chicago want anything to do with that deal? Are they so desperate for financial flexibility that they would consider this?

Taj Gibson is real solid, but Noah brings more. I don't get that idea for Chicago.


Similarly, why would SA want to move Leonard, who is essentially their answer to Kevin Durant for the next decade?  Splitter has proven to be a real commodity as well. Idle speculation indeed, my friend.
Yeah the Chicago one struck me most of all as being wild.

Not surprised by it though given the source, not a fan of his work.

I agree but Noah's injuries have to be a major concern.

Although Thibs would prob play KG 45 min a game until he literally broke
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Eja117 on February 04, 2013, 06:59:22 PM
Now, the premsise of the article is speculation on loose rumors. There is no news here, and there are no solid leads. This is speculation only, and idle speculation at that (I'm assuming idle speculation is the worst).

Quote from: The best deals for top trade targets (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130204/nba-best-deals-top-trade-targets)
Israel Gutierrez, ESPN.com: Garnett and Fab Melo to Chicago for Joakim Noah and Marco Belinelli. No trade at all is their best bet. The Celtics are unlikely to get anything close to equal value for Garnett, who's so vital to what Boston does and fits in so well with Rajon Rondo. And if there's any indication he won't play out the final two years of his deal, that's even less leverage for the Celtics. But if -- and this is a huge if -- they can get something significant for KG, I'd do this deal.

Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.

Curtis Harris, Hardwood Paroxysm: Kevin Garnett to Nuggets for JaVale McGee. Going to Denver keeps KG on a playoff team that needs his defensive prowess in the interior. Meanwhile, Boston would get McGee, who may still blossom into a competent defensive force in his own right. And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks.

Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Kevin Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.

Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Fab Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential, and Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same frontline? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.

I'd put in a kidney if the thunder sent back Perkins, Lamb, Jones, and the Toronto pick.
with the exception of JaVale these are all too good to be true, which is why all except JaValle should be looked at
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: TripleOT on February 04, 2013, 07:08:28 PM
And I've gone over this before with you, but it doesn't seem to sink in.  Whatever you may think of Perkins, Lamb and PJII, they're better than nothing.  3 years from now, a Celtic team with those 3 guys will be far more "competitive" than a team where KG has just retired and Boston has nothing more than some salary cap space.
That's because you somehow mistakently believe that those guys have any potential as NBA players 3 years from now.

As a matter of fact, I find all three will be out of the league by that time more likely than at least one of them being a reasonable NBA starter by the time when Garnett's contract expires.

That's the nature of rebuilding by trading for young assets.  Those young players might never become solid starters, but the odds are good that at least Lamb and the Toronto pick should. 

If the Cs could get Lamb, PJ3 and the Toronto pick, which could be #4, that is a good haul for Garnett.  (We disagree about Perk's value, and I don't feel like re-hashing that argument here). I'd prefer to keep AB out of the deal and send a useful third PG type like Barbosa their way.   

Assuming KG would agree to play for OKC, that trade should be a no brainer for the Thunder.  Adding KG's defensive presence and shooting touch to that line up makes them odds on favorites for the title the next two years. 

I'm a huge KG fan, but his team isn't winning the title this year, and probably not next.  It's time to make a move I prefer trading him to the Bulls for Gibson, Hamilton and Hinrich for salary ballast and stashed Euro Nikola Mirotic.  KG is re-united with Thibs in his second hometown, and Boston gets a big who can help immediately, in Gibson, and a possible top of the league future star in Mirotic in 2014. 

   
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: scaryjerry on February 04, 2013, 07:15:11 PM
Thanks, I'd rather keep Garnett.

Why? For what?
Because 2 1/2 years of Kevin Garnett is better for the team than whatever that whatever that hodgepodge of injured and/or unproven players will be able to give you.

Give you what? A second-round exit?

Better then a good 20 years of barely sniffing the second round......I do enjoy watching the celtics in the playoffs as a fan i find enjoyment in things beyond championship or bust.

rebuilds suck
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: crownontherocks on February 04, 2013, 07:28:02 PM
Kevin Garnett reportedly will not waive his no-trade clause unless the Celtics have already traded Paul Pierce. KG is more than content to keep fighting for the Celtics, who have won four straight without Rajon Rondo. If he does agree to be dealt, he reportedly won't go anywhere but L.A., as he lives in Malibu. A rumor this weekend suggested the Clippers wanted to trade for him in a deal including Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler, but Celts' GM Danny Ainge will listen to anything and there are no sourced reports to go on. File this in your rumor bin.

Related: Paul Pierce Source: Shaun Powell on Twitter
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: rutzan on February 04, 2013, 07:33:24 PM
you will never get equal value for kg...you will will never replace what kg brings...

never...ever...

try thinking of the players traded for wilt, kareem, shaq, carmelo and d12...most people will never remember who they were or are...

let's try a little parody on AI's infamous words, "practice"

you traded kg for "players"?

only a handful of players in nba history can be called the alpha dogs of competitors...in recent history...only bird, mj and kobe come to mind...bird played for 13 yrs...mj played 15 yrs...kobe is in his 17th yr...

kg is in his 18th yr...and kg's fire burns as hot as ever...

what does that tell you?

it means...

someone please stop the maddness...
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: lightspeed5 on February 04, 2013, 07:38:24 PM
you do not trade kevin garnett. period.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 04, 2013, 07:56:03 PM
you do not trade kevin garnett. period.
This is on Yahoo today:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/trade-season-round-featuring-kevin-garnett-dwight-howard-182216771--nba.html

Kelly Dwyer called Bledsoe "mini-Lebron" and wasn't kidding. He should stick to BDL columns, since he's obviously only good for comic relief.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: rondohondo on February 04, 2013, 07:58:54 PM
you do not trade kevin garnett. period.
This is on Yahoo today:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/trade-season-round-featuring-kevin-garnett-dwight-howard-182216771--nba.html

Kelly Dwyer called Bledsoe "mini-Lebron" and wasn't kidding. He should stick to BDL columns, since he's obviously only good for comic relief.
definitely not lebron, but reminds me a lot of Jrue holiday
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 04, 2013, 08:05:46 PM
Kevin Garnett reportedly will not waive his no-trade clause unless the Celtics have already traded Paul Pierce. KG is more than content to keep fighting for the Celtics, who have won four straight without Rajon Rondo. If he does agree to be dealt, he reportedly won't go anywhere but L.A., as he lives in Malibu. A rumor this weekend suggested the Clippers wanted to trade for him in a deal including Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler, but Celts' GM Danny Ainge will listen to anything and there are no sourced reports to go on. File this in your rumor bin.

Related: Paul Pierce Source: Shaun Powell on Twitter

Just saw this. Makes sense.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: StartOrien on February 04, 2013, 08:07:30 PM
you do not trade kevin garnett. period.
This is on Yahoo today:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/trade-season-round-featuring-kevin-garnett-dwight-howard-182216771--nba.html

Kelly Dwyer called Bledsoe "mini-Lebron" and wasn't kidding. He should stick to BDL columns, since he's obviously only good for comic relief.

"Mini-Lebron" isn't something that was made up by Dwyer. It was actually made up by Jamal Crawford and even Lebron himself has used the nickname. Mostly, because it's true. The guys everything Lebron is athletically, in a much, much smaller package
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: sofutomygaha on February 04, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
you do not trade kevin garnett. period.
This is on Yahoo today:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/trade-season-round-featuring-kevin-garnett-dwight-howard-182216771--nba.html

Kelly Dwyer called Bledsoe "mini-Lebron" and wasn't kidding. He should stick to BDL columns, since he's obviously only good for comic relief.

"Mini-Lebron" isn't something that was made up by Dwyer. It was actually made up by Jamal Crawford and even Lebron himself has used the nickname. Mostly, because it's true. The guys everything Lebron is athletically, in a much, much smaller package

People say that about me, too! I am everything Lebron is, in a much, smaller, nerdier, less athletic, less coordinated, less wealthy package.

I own a sweet bicycle and a Samsung phone. Also, I choose not to live in Cleveland.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: danglertx on February 04, 2013, 08:37:11 PM
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

At least if we keep Garnett and Pierce we have a puncher's chance.  We can pick up a buyout guy for front court depth.  Who knows, maybe get Miami in the first series and Lebron snaps an ankle on his first dunk.  Or Wade blows out a knee.  We already saw Rose go down like this in the playoffs.

Besides that, I think we actually match up well with the Heat, especially with Green and Terry starting to play well.

We can be young and suck at any time, I'd rather play to win while we have the horses for it.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 04, 2013, 08:37:40 PM
The best trade?

Boston keeps: Kevin Garnett
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: danglertx on February 04, 2013, 08:42:05 PM
The best trade?

Boston keeps: Kevin Garnett

Amen!
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 04, 2013, 08:46:59 PM
Quote
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Young and suck was bad but watching Bird, Parish and McHale and DJ get old was bad as well.   I think watching McHale's final season was worse than the young guys playing.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: action781 on February 04, 2013, 08:49:30 PM
And I've gone over this before with you, but it doesn't seem to sink in.  Whatever you may think of Perkins, Lamb and PJII, they're better than nothing.  3 years from now, a Celtic team with those 3 guys will be far more "competitive" than a team where KG has just retired and Boston has nothing more than some salary cap space.
That's because you somehow mistakently believe that those guys have any potential as NBA players 3 years from now.

As a matter of fact, I find all three will be out of the league by that time more likely than at least one of them being a reasonable NBA starter by the time when Garnett's contract expires.
You're saying that Perkins won't be a reasonable NBA starter?   He's currently a starter on the best team in the NBA.  Perkins contract expires at the end of that 3 year period, so if he's not a "reasonable starter" 3 years from now, we can let him walk and still have the other 3 assets.

And the others don't have "any" potential?  Come on.  I understand taking on a prospect is a risk they may never pan out, but they don't have zero potential.  I'd say that Lamb and PJ3 have shown similar potential to what Bradley showed by this point in his career.  They are 20 and 21 years old.  And that lottery pick is a great asset.  There is no way on earth that a guaranteed lottery pick is coming back in exchange for KG in any other deal.

I'm not saying I'd do it.... but I'm not saying I definitely wouldn't do it either.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: PhoSita on February 04, 2013, 08:58:24 PM
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

Currently we're a team in transition.  The supporting cast is largely young, while the essential core is old.  We're straddling the fence.

As a result, we have a mediocre, middle of the road team.  NBA purgatory.  Might get hot and win a 1st round series.  Might get killed in the first round by a top seed, or miss the playoffs entirely.  The only thing that's certain is we aren't winning a title and we aren't getting a top 10 draft pick.

From that perspective, getting young and sucking sooner rather than later makes sense, unless you want to maintain the current status quo just for the sake of having a team that wins roughly half its games and has a shot at playing 4-6 games in the playoffs. 

That viewpoint is valid.  Though it doesn't make much sense to me because unlike many fanbases we are lucky enough to not be starved for playoff basketball.  We shouldn't need the team to make the playoffs just for the sake of making the playoffs. 

Unless you believe in just going down with the ship and seeing Pierce and KG play as many games as possible in Celtics uniforms before retiring, which is valid, too.  But reasonable people can disagree on the importance of that.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Chief Macho on February 04, 2013, 09:00:22 PM
I like how this team win's a few games after being terrible all season and now they have a "punchers chance" to beat miami, chicago, etc.   They don't.   They won't next year either. It's fine,  keep them together.  But stop pretending you're rooting for anything other than an average team and average results.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: moiso on February 04, 2013, 09:12:40 PM
Quote
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Young and suck was bad but watching Bird, Parish and McHale and DJ get old was bad as well.   I think watching McHale's final season was worse than the young guys playing.
I remember McHale's last game and it was pretty awesome. 
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 04, 2013, 09:19:48 PM
I like how this team win's a few games after being terrible all season and now they have a "punchers chance" to beat miami, chicago, etc.   They don't.   They won't next year either. It's fine,  keep them together.  But stop pretending you're rooting for anything other than an average team and average results.

We are absolutely very capable of beating Chicago.

I'm far more worried about Miami and NY, even though we have beaten both teams without Rondo.  We're certainly capable of beating any team in the east if we play with energy and hustle.

Philly were considered underdogs against us last season, but they pushed us right to the limit.  Playoff basketball is way different to regular season basketball - upsets happen and the (on paper) beter team doesn't always win.  The games are usually pretty close, and when you have a game that's close all the way one or two plays can decide a game.  It can go either way,.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 04, 2013, 09:21:20 PM
Dallas Mavs were an average team!
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 04, 2013, 10:05:56 PM
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?

They want to prove that even the worst NBA GMs are better than your typical "guy on internet".
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 04, 2013, 10:07:36 PM
Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

I'm not convinced that the Celtics have to go through a "young and suck" phase between the current and the next championship windows.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2013, 10:13:00 PM
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?

They want to prove that even the worst NBA GMs are better than your typical "guy on internet".

For me, it's because you eventually gotta do it. If you want to be truly special, you've got to make smart picks, get a little lucky, and make special trades. Our road back gets a lot easier with a top 5 pick, and if we're not in the hunt for a title, I don't see the point in being ordinary. Id rather be bad to get good.

Not that Im advocating trading pierce or Kg just to be worse, but if we had real potential building blocks coming back, Id be okay with it.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Roy H. on February 04, 2013, 10:14:57 PM
Quote
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Young and suck was bad but watching Bird, Parish and McHale and DJ get old was bad as well.   I think watching McHale's final season was worse than the young guys playing.
I remember McHale's last game and it was pretty awesome.

Yeah, I enjoyed watching Bird, and especially McHale for whatever reason, in their twilight. 

It was definitely more fun than having 95% of the fan base rooting for the team to lose, and almost hoping for injuries (or "injuries") to our stars.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 04, 2013, 10:29:22 PM
Quote
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Young and suck was bad but watching Bird, Parish and McHale and DJ get old was bad as well.   I think watching McHale's final season was worse than the young guys playing.
I remember McHale's last game and it was pretty awesome.

Yeah, I enjoyed watching Bird, and especially McHale for whatever reason, in their twilight. 

It was definitely more fun than having 95% of the fan base rooting for the team to lose, and almost hoping for injuries (or "injuries") to our stars.

Is it weird that I remember that soul-crushing 06/07 season fondly now? Al Jefferson's #7 jersey is still on my wall, retired fondly because it was through grasping at the straws of that season and the ones before it are the seasons that turned me into a truly obsessive fan.

Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: The4Time2Doctor0 on February 04, 2013, 10:38:18 PM
Indeedproceed, i also remember that season fondly. they sucked but it was fun. i actually think they overachieved that year. ill take overachieving over underachieving. underachieving is frustrating.
Title: ESPN: Trade possibilities for KG and Pierce
Post by: eugen on February 05, 2013, 08:23:10 AM
ESPN: Trade possibilities for KG and Pierce


In the context of this recent tweet from long-time NBA writer Shaun Powell:
 

A recent ESPN 5-on-5 discussed some of the trade possibilities Boston could make in dealing Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce.
 
These are just suggestions and only two have actually been brought up as rumor.
 

1. What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
 

Israel Gutierrez, ESPN.com: Garnett and Fab Melo to Chicago for Joakim Noah and Marco Belinelli. No trade at all is their best bet. The Celtics are unlikely to get anything close to equal value for Garnett, who's so vital to what Boston does and fits in so well with Rajon Rondo. And if there's any indication he won't play out the final two years of his deal, that's even less leverage for the Celtics. But if -- and this is a huge if -- they can get something significant for KG, I'd do this deal.
 
Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.
 
Curtis Harris, Hardwood Paroxysm: Garnett to the Nuggets for JaVale McGee. Going to Denver keeps KG on a playoff team that needs his defensive prowess in the interior. Meanwhile, Boston would get McGee, who may still blossom into a competent defensive force in his own right. And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks.
 
Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.
 
Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential. Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same front line? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.
 

Reaction:
 
The Joakim Noah trade is pretty laughable.

Of course the Clippers blog guy would want Avery Bradley with KG for Bledsoe and Jordan. For me, having Bradley is one of the major reasons to get Bledsoe, not to include him in the deal for Bledsoe.

I really like McGee’s potential, but he would be best served playing alongside KG and learning from him instead of joining another team with no veteran legit big men to learn from.

Trading KG for Perkins and the young assets in OKC is not horrible, but it would mean Danny Ainge was wrong to trade Perkins away and GMs don’t like to make those kind of concessions.
 
Leonard is a very good player, but adding him to the already clogged wingman spot just doesn’t make sense. And anyone who is a longtime KG fan will want to throw up in their mouth at the idea of KG and Duncan on the same team.
 

5. What's the best Paul Pierce trade the Celtics can make?
 

Gutierrez: Pierce to Lakers for Gasol. This would essentially be a basketball crime. The two great rival franchises trading former titlists for each other? And frankly, from the Lakers' end, it wouldn't exactly fit their need. But we're talking about the best thing for Boston, and having a big like Gasol to pair with Garnett, should he stay put, would make the Celtics suddenly intriguing, even without Rondo this season.
 
Han: Pierce to the Jazz for Al Jefferson and a first-round pick (lower of two available). Boston moves some long-term money and pairs Garnett with another legitimate low-post big man in Jefferson, the former Celtic who was once traded for Garnett. Not only do the Celtics plan for the future with a first-round pick, this trade also gives them a stylistic advantage in the smaller East.
 
Harris: Paul Pierce to Jazz for Paul Millsap and Marvin Williams. The Celtics get Pierce's temporary replacement in Williams and a stud power forward in Millsap. Pierce would give the Jazz a much-needed 3-point shooter while moving Millsap clears up their logjam at power forward.
 
Highkin: Paul Pierce to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. The Celtics get one of the most-sought-after backcourt prospects in the league in Bledsoe, and can either use him to make Rajon Rondo expendable or play him at shooting guard; a Rondo-Bledsoe-Bradley lineup would make for one of the toughest perimeter defense combos out there. The Clippers get out of Butler's contract and go all-in on a title run in the next two years.
 
Winter: Pierce and Jason Terry to the Warriors for Harrison Barnes, Jarrett Jack, Richard Jefferson and Festus Ezeli. Barnes has quietly had a good rookie season for the Warriors, already offering value as a "three-and-D" type while showing flashes of star power as an individual scorer. His ceiling is relatively akin to an in-prime Pierce, actually, and Boston rids itself of Terry's three-year deal in this scenario, too. Golden State is one of the league's biggest surprises, but to be anything more than that this season, it'll need to make a move. Acquiring Pierce, still an elite two-way player, could be just the one who makes the Warriors a true contender.

 Reaction:
 
Pierce for Gasol. Boston and the Lakers trading marquee players. No.
 
Pierce for Jefferson has way too many storylines connected to it. Trading Jefferson for KG and then later getting Jefferson to play with KG by trading Pierce? It wouldn’t be a horrible basketball move and fans might even be somewhat acceptable to it by getting back Jefferson, but it just doesn’t feel right. Not enough separation.
 
Now trading Pierce for the other Jazz big on the outs wouldn’t be horrible, but Marvin Williams is just awful. They would have to include a better player like Mo Williams to make that deal at least serviceable.
 
Pierce for Bledsoe, Butler and Odom just seems like too much for the Clippers to give up. I’d entertain this proposal as Odom still does so many things on the court and can play so many positions and Butler has something left in the tank. Odom is on an expiring deal too, so it could be a way to have one last push until really entering rebuild mode.
 
Pierce and Terry for Barnes is the most compelling deal as Barnes should be a great player in the future. The idea of a core of Barnes, Bradley and Sullinger with another potentially great young big if Rondo is dealt is just too good to pass up. It also keeps the Celtics relevant with a decent PG in Jack and Richard Jefferson. Oh and the Celtics would deal away Terry’s contract which should help next year if Boston decides to hold onto Rondo.
 
Follow Eric
 @ericblaisdell13
Title: Re: ESPN: Trade possibilities for KG and Pierce
Post by: Fan from VT on February 05, 2013, 08:42:17 AM
ESPN: Trade possibilities for KG and Pierce


In the context of this recent tweet from long-time NBA writer Shaun Powell:
 

A recent ESPN 5-on-5 discussed some of the trade possibilities Boston could make in dealing Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce.
 
These are just suggestions and only two have actually been brought up as rumor.
 

1. What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
 

Israel Gutierrez, ESPN.com: Garnett and Fab Melo to Chicago for Joakim Noah and Marco Belinelli. No trade at all is their best bet. The Celtics are unlikely to get anything close to equal value for Garnett, who's so vital to what Boston does and fits in so well with Rajon Rondo. And if there's any indication he won't play out the final two years of his deal, that's even less leverage for the Celtics. But if -- and this is a huge if -- they can get something significant for KG, I'd do this deal.
 
Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.
 
Curtis Harris, Hardwood Paroxysm: Garnett to the Nuggets for JaVale McGee. Going to Denver keeps KG on a playoff team that needs his defensive prowess in the interior. Meanwhile, Boston would get McGee, who may still blossom into a competent defensive force in his own right. And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks.
 
Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.
 
Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential. Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same front line? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.
 

Reaction:
 
The Joakim Noah trade is pretty laughable.

Of course the Clippers blog guy would want Avery Bradley with KG for Bledsoe and Jordan. For me, having Bradley is one of the major reasons to get Bledsoe, not to include him in the deal for Bledsoe.

I really like McGee’s potential, but he would be best served playing alongside KG and learning from him instead of joining another team with no veteran legit big men to learn from.

Trading KG for Perkins and the young assets in OKC is not horrible, but it would mean Danny Ainge was wrong to trade Perkins away and GMs don’t like to make those kind of concessions.
 
Leonard is a very good player, but adding him to the already clogged wingman spot just doesn’t make sense. And anyone who is a longtime KG fan will want to throw up in their mouth at the idea of KG and Duncan on the same team.
 

5. What's the best Paul Pierce trade the Celtics can make?
 

Gutierrez: Pierce to Lakers for Gasol. This would essentially be a basketball crime. The two great rival franchises trading former titlists for each other? And frankly, from the Lakers' end, it wouldn't exactly fit their need. But we're talking about the best thing for Boston, and having a big like Gasol to pair with Garnett, should he stay put, would make the Celtics suddenly intriguing, even without Rondo this season.
 
Han: Pierce to the Jazz for Al Jefferson and a first-round pick (lower of two available). Boston moves some long-term money and pairs Garnett with another legitimate low-post big man in Jefferson, the former Celtic who was once traded for Garnett. Not only do the Celtics plan for the future with a first-round pick, this trade also gives them a stylistic advantage in the smaller East.
 
Harris: Paul Pierce to Jazz for Paul Millsap and Marvin Williams. The Celtics get Pierce's temporary replacement in Williams and a stud power forward in Millsap. Pierce would give the Jazz a much-needed 3-point shooter while moving Millsap clears up their logjam at power forward.
 
Highkin: Paul Pierce to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. The Celtics get one of the most-sought-after backcourt prospects in the league in Bledsoe, and can either use him to make Rajon Rondo expendable or play him at shooting guard; a Rondo-Bledsoe-Bradley lineup would make for one of the toughest perimeter defense combos out there. The Clippers get out of Butler's contract and go all-in on a title run in the next two years.
 
Winter: Pierce and Jason Terry to the Warriors for Harrison Barnes, Jarrett Jack, Richard Jefferson and Festus Ezeli. Barnes has quietly had a good rookie season for the Warriors, already offering value as a "three-and-D" type while showing flashes of star power as an individual scorer. His ceiling is relatively akin to an in-prime Pierce, actually, and Boston rids itself of Terry's three-year deal in this scenario, too. Golden State is one of the league's biggest surprises, but to be anything more than that this season, it'll need to make a move. Acquiring Pierce, still an elite two-way player, could be just the one who makes the Warriors a true contender.

 Reaction:
 
Pierce for Gasol. Boston and the Lakers trading marquee players. No.
 
Pierce for Jefferson has way too many storylines connected to it. Trading Jefferson for KG and then later getting Jefferson to play with KG by trading Pierce? It wouldn’t be a horrible basketball move and fans might even be somewhat acceptable to it by getting back Jefferson, but it just doesn’t feel right. Not enough separation.
 
Now trading Pierce for the other Jazz big on the outs wouldn’t be horrible, but Marvin Williams is just awful. They would have to include a better player like Mo Williams to make that deal at least serviceable.
 
Pierce for Bledsoe, Butler and Odom just seems like too much for the Clippers to give up. I’d entertain this proposal as Odom still does so many things on the court and can play so many positions and Butler has something left in the tank. Odom is on an expiring deal too, so it could be a way to have one last push until really entering rebuild mode.
 
Pierce and Terry for Barnes is the most compelling deal as Barnes should be a great player in the future. The idea of a core of Barnes, Bradley and Sullinger with another potentially great young big if Rondo is dealt is just too good to pass up. It also keeps the Celtics relevant with a decent PG in Jack and Richard Jefferson. Oh and the Celtics would deal away Terry’s contract which should help next year if Boston decides to hold onto Rondo.
 
Follow Eric
 @ericblaisdell13



I disagree that trading with OKC would be seen as confirming that trading Perkins was a "mistake," as Perkins is in no way the key of the deal. He's basically salary ballast with some sentimental value; the point is the young prospects and picks.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: danglertx on February 05, 2013, 11:11:03 AM
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?

They want to prove that even the worst NBA GMs are better than your typical "guy on internet".

For me, it's because you eventually gotta do it. If you want to be truly special, you've got to make smart picks, get a little lucky, and make special trades. Our road back gets a lot easier with a top 5 pick, and if we're not in the hunt for a title, I don't see the point in being ordinary. Id rather be bad to get good.

Not that Im advocating trading pierce or Kg just to be worse, but if we had real potential building blocks coming back, Id be okay with it.

I don't think you have to go into a long period of "suck" to become relevant again.  We have Rondo, Sully (if he makes is back he could be even better if he has been playing this whole season in pain), and Green takes the next step.  Then we have a chance at a good defensive C who is at least competent offensively in Melo.  In two years that could easily be the nucleus of a 3rd or 4th seed.

The luxury tax is going to change the NBA in two years.  I don't think we are going to see teams that look like the Lakers and Heat salary wise anymore.

Title: Re: ESPN: Trade possibilities for KG and Pierce
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 05, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
ESPN: Trade possibilities for KG and Pierce


In the context of this recent tweet from long-time NBA writer Shaun Powell:
 

A recent ESPN 5-on-5 discussed some of the trade possibilities Boston could make in dealing Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce.
 
These are just suggestions and only two have actually been brought up as rumor.
 

1. What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
 

Israel Gutierrez, ESPN.com: Garnett and Fab Melo to Chicago for Joakim Noah and Marco Belinelli. No trade at all is their best bet. The Celtics are unlikely to get anything close to equal value for Garnett, who's so vital to what Boston does and fits in so well with Rajon Rondo. And if there's any indication he won't play out the final two years of his deal, that's even less leverage for the Celtics. But if -- and this is a huge if -- they can get something significant for KG, I'd do this deal.
 
Andrew Han, ClipperBlog: Garnett, Avery Bradley to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Jordan and Trey Thompkins. Garnett's no-trade clause limits the Celtics' options mostly to Los Angeles; he owns a home in Malibu and is godfather to Chauncey Billups' daughter. Boston gets back a coveted player/athlete and turns one of their off-ball guards into a point guard, suddenly a position of need. Add an intriguing prospect in Thompkins and an athletic center in Jordan and the Celtics get young in a hurry.
 
Curtis Harris, Hardwood Paroxysm: Garnett to the Nuggets for JaVale McGee. Going to Denver keeps KG on a playoff team that needs his defensive prowess in the interior. Meanwhile, Boston would get McGee, who may still blossom into a competent defensive force in his own right. And if it doesn't work, Boston can be woeful, get lottery picks and trade McGee's expiring deal in three seasons for future building blocks.
 
Sean Highkin, Portland Roundball Soc.: Garnett to the Thunder for Kendrick Perkins, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones III and Toronto's lottery-guaranteed first-rounder. Taking back Perkins' contract isn't ideal, but the Celtics load up on cheap, controllable, high-upside rookies and get a pick that could potentially be very high. From the Thunder's perspective, upgrading from Perk to KG would make it hard not to be considered title favorites.
 
Jack Winter, WarriorsWorld: Garnett and Melo to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard, Tiago Splitter and Boris Diaw. Leonard is one of the league's true blue-chip prospects, a great athlete with elite defensive potential. Splitter has value, too. A small-picture view like this is against the Spurs' very fabric as an organization, but Garnett and Tim Duncan on the same front line? If there was ever a reason to swing for the fences, this might be it.
 

Reaction:
 
The Joakim Noah trade is pretty laughable.

Of course the Clippers blog guy would want Avery Bradley with KG for Bledsoe and Jordan. For me, having Bradley is one of the major reasons to get Bledsoe, not to include him in the deal for Bledsoe.

I really like McGee’s potential, but he would be best served playing alongside KG and learning from him instead of joining another team with no veteran legit big men to learn from.

Trading KG for Perkins and the young assets in OKC is not horrible, but it would mean Danny Ainge was wrong to trade Perkins away and GMs don’t like to make those kind of concessions.
 
Leonard is a very good player, but adding him to the already clogged wingman spot just doesn’t make sense. And anyone who is a longtime KG fan will want to throw up in their mouth at the idea of KG and Duncan on the same team.
 

5. What's the best Paul Pierce trade the Celtics can make?
 

Gutierrez: Pierce to Lakers for Gasol. This would essentially be a basketball crime. The two great rival franchises trading former titlists for each other? And frankly, from the Lakers' end, it wouldn't exactly fit their need. But we're talking about the best thing for Boston, and having a big like Gasol to pair with Garnett, should he stay put, would make the Celtics suddenly intriguing, even without Rondo this season.
 
Han: Pierce to the Jazz for Al Jefferson and a first-round pick (lower of two available). Boston moves some long-term money and pairs Garnett with another legitimate low-post big man in Jefferson, the former Celtic who was once traded for Garnett. Not only do the Celtics plan for the future with a first-round pick, this trade also gives them a stylistic advantage in the smaller East.
 
Harris: Paul Pierce to Jazz for Paul Millsap and Marvin Williams. The Celtics get Pierce's temporary replacement in Williams and a stud power forward in Millsap. Pierce would give the Jazz a much-needed 3-point shooter while moving Millsap clears up their logjam at power forward.
 
Highkin: Paul Pierce to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe, Caron Butler and Lamar Odom. The Celtics get one of the most-sought-after backcourt prospects in the league in Bledsoe, and can either use him to make Rajon Rondo expendable or play him at shooting guard; a Rondo-Bledsoe-Bradley lineup would make for one of the toughest perimeter defense combos out there. The Clippers get out of Butler's contract and go all-in on a title run in the next two years.
 
Winter: Pierce and Jason Terry to the Warriors for Harrison Barnes, Jarrett Jack, Richard Jefferson and Festus Ezeli. Barnes has quietly had a good rookie season for the Warriors, already offering value as a "three-and-D" type while showing flashes of star power as an individual scorer. His ceiling is relatively akin to an in-prime Pierce, actually, and Boston rids itself of Terry's three-year deal in this scenario, too. Golden State is one of the league's biggest surprises, but to be anything more than that this season, it'll need to make a move. Acquiring Pierce, still an elite two-way player, could be just the one who makes the Warriors a true contender.

 Reaction:
 
Pierce for Gasol. Boston and the Lakers trading marquee players. No.
 
Pierce for Jefferson has way too many storylines connected to it. Trading Jefferson for KG and then later getting Jefferson to play with KG by trading Pierce? It wouldn’t be a horrible basketball move and fans might even be somewhat acceptable to it by getting back Jefferson, but it just doesn’t feel right. Not enough separation.
 
Now trading Pierce for the other Jazz big on the outs wouldn’t be horrible, but Marvin Williams is just awful. They would have to include a better player like Mo Williams to make that deal at least serviceable.
 
Pierce for Bledsoe, Butler and Odom just seems like too much for the Clippers to give up. I’d entertain this proposal as Odom still does so many things on the court and can play so many positions and Butler has something left in the tank. Odom is on an expiring deal too, so it could be a way to have one last push until really entering rebuild mode.
 
Pierce and Terry for Barnes is the most compelling deal as Barnes should be a great player in the future. The idea of a core of Barnes, Bradley and Sullinger with another potentially great young big if Rondo is dealt is just too good to pass up. It also keeps the Celtics relevant with a decent PG in Jack and Richard Jefferson. Oh and the Celtics would deal away Terry’s contract which should help next year if Boston decides to hold onto Rondo.
 
Follow Eric
 @ericblaisdell13



I disagree that trading with OKC would be seen as confirming that trading Perkins was a "mistake," as Perkins is in no way the key of the deal. He's basically salary ballast with some sentimental value; the point is the young prospects and picks.

Agreed. He'd be in there for a cap match and would at least give us a decent starting center. Two young guns and a first rounder. He could give us 22 minutes a game with Fab trying to get the rest. I don't really dig the idea of taking on Jones who is an injury risk and Lamb who doesnt address an area of need for us. We would certainly be stockpiled with enough trade assets though.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: crownontherocks on February 05, 2013, 12:30:32 PM
#Celticstalk: KG on trade rumors: "Danny made it obvious ... that he was going to do what's best for this organization."

#Celticstalk: KG on trades, cont'd: "I bleed green. I die green, that's what it is. But it is a business. Trades are a part of this league."

#Celticstalk: KG on trade talks cont'd: "Every year, you're going to hear certain things.If I was y'all, I wouldn't read too much into it."
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: PhoSita on February 05, 2013, 12:48:25 PM
Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

I'm not convinced that the Celtics have to go through a "young and suck" phase between the current and the next championship windows.

The only way I could see that being the case is if Rondo turns into a superstar (i.e. legitimate top 4-5 MVP candidate) when he gets back from his injury.

We aren't building a contender post-Pierce/KG without a superstar, and we aren't getting one in free agency.  So it's Rondo, tank for the lottery, or acquire various young assets over the course of a few years and make some trades. 

Personally, I view the latter of the three options as the most likely one.  But it means we have to get young and suck for a few years (at least).
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: PhoSita on February 05, 2013, 12:50:21 PM
Dallas Mavs were an average team!

Not really.  They were an older team that was pretty good in the regular season but not great.

Then their superstar player, who was on the tail end of his prime, rediscovered his MVP form during the playoffs and led the team on a run to a championship. 

They also had a perfectly tailored supporting cast which included a great defensive center in his prime.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: action781 on February 06, 2013, 12:33:14 AM
Quote
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Young and suck was bad but watching Bird, Parish and McHale and DJ get old was bad as well.   I think watching McHale's final season was worse than the young guys playing.
I remember McHale's last game and it was pretty awesome.

Yeah, I enjoyed watching Bird, and especially McHale for whatever reason, in their twilight. 

It was definitely more fun than having 95% of the fan base rooting for the team to lose, and almost hoping for injuries (or "injuries") to our stars.

Is it weird that I remember that soul-crushing 06/07 season fondly now? Al Jefferson's #7 jersey is still on my wall, retired fondly because it was through grasping at the straws of that season and the ones before it are the seasons that turned me into a truly obsessive fan.

Same here.  I still have nightmares of one game in 05/06 when Gerald Green fouled somebody heaving a halfcourt shot at the end of a half because he bit an upfake (at half court!) and tried to block his shot.  Our record was probably like 20-35 at the time, but I was running around my apartment screaming in disbelief and wonder at why he would bite a half court up fake.  This was when, despite all the hope I was clinging onto for Geralds "superstar potential", I started to come back to earth and question if Gerald would ever be a competent player.  Oh yeah, and we lost the game by 2 points.

If we ever go through another true rebuilding phase, we need to start a thread dedicated to stories like these.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on February 06, 2013, 01:22:53 AM
My hope is that every one has a good time, no matter where they end up.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: libermaniac on February 06, 2013, 02:29:09 AM
I wonder if that guy stole my idea ... the KG to OKC deal is EXACTLY what I proposed this weekend.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62450.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62450.0)
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: PhoSita on February 06, 2013, 04:46:17 AM
I wonder if that guy stole my idea ... the KG to OKC deal is EXACTLY what I proposed this weekend.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62450.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62450.0)

I think a lot of the same trades are being proposed by multiple people because there aren't a ton of options for KG / Pierce trades.

You're pretty much limited to contenders, and then you have to look at who has the right salaries and assets to present a credible offer.  That narrows it down to only a few.

The OKC trade gets mentioned because it's one of the few that seem plausible.  Same with the Clippers trade.  I thought of that as a possibility (albeit as a destination for Pierce) before it was even mentioned as a rumor that the Clips might be willing to offer Bledsoe.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: jdz101 on February 06, 2013, 05:45:26 AM
Quote
Why are people so anxious for us to get young and suck?  I am 41yrs old, I've been through the young and suck phase and I am in no hurry to go there again.

Young and suck was bad but watching Bird, Parish and McHale and DJ get old was bad as well.   I think watching McHale's final season was worse than the young guys playing.
I remember McHale's last game and it was pretty awesome.

Yeah, I enjoyed watching Bird, and especially McHale for whatever reason, in their twilight. 

It was definitely more fun than having 95% of the fan base rooting for the team to lose, and almost hoping for injuries (or "injuries") to our stars.

Is it weird that I remember that soul-crushing 06/07 season fondly now? Al Jefferson's #7 jersey is still on my wall, retired fondly because it was through grasping at the straws of that season and the ones before it are the seasons that turned me into a truly obsessive fan.

Same here.  I still have nightmares of one game in 05/06 when Gerald Green fouled somebody heaving a halfcourt shot at the end of a half because he bit an upfake (at half court!) and tried to block his shot.  Our record was probably like 20-35 at the time, but I was running around my apartment screaming in disbelief and wonder at why he would bite a half court up fake.  This was when, despite all the hope I was clinging onto for Geralds "superstar potential", I started to come back to earth and question if Gerald would ever be a competent player.  Oh yeah, and we lost the game by 2 points.

If we ever go through another true rebuilding phase, we need to start a thread dedicated to stories like these.

I can deal with horrendously dumb basketball players if they play with heart. Gerald did neither.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 06, 2013, 07:25:46 AM
I never root to loose in the ML year.  I can't do it.   But I do think we are setting ourselves for some dark years to come if we do not act now.   We are not winning it this year.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 06, 2013, 07:27:55 AM
I never root to loose in the ML year.  I can't do it.   But I do think we are setting ourselves for some dark years to come if we do not act now.   We are not winning it this year.

Yea but give it a chance anyways
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Roy H. on February 06, 2013, 08:19:55 AM
I never root to loose in the ML year.  I can't do it.   But I do think we are setting ourselves for some dark years to come if we do not act now.   We are not winning it this year.

There are going to be dark years regardless of whether we blow up the team.  I mean, who are we going to acquire in trade that prevents / seriously shortens our rebuilding?

My thought is, since that process is going to suck terribly, why not get a year or two more of enjoyment out of this team?  Watching playoff basketball, and watching Hall of Famers as they wind down their careers, is a lot better of an experience than being in the lottery.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 08:56:06 AM
I never root to loose in the ML year.  I can't do it.   But I do think we are setting ourselves for some dark years to come if we do not act now.   We are not winning it this year.

There are going to be dark years regardless of whether we blow up the team.  I mean, who are we going to acquire in trade that prevents / seriously shortens our rebuilding?

My thought is, since that process is going to suck terribly, why not get a year or two more of enjoyment out of this team?  Watching playoff basketball, and watching Hall of Famers as they wind down their careers, is a lot better of an experience than being in the lottery.
This.

As usual, Roy says it a lot better and simpler than I ever can.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: libermaniac on February 06, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
I wonder if that guy stole my idea ... the KG to OKC deal is EXACTLY what I proposed this weekend.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62450.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62450.0)

I think a lot of the same trades are being proposed by multiple people because there aren't a ton of options for KG / Pierce trades.


I hear ya, but this is exactly the same 4 assets I had coming back to the C's.  This guy is a troller who stole my idea.  ;)   Hopefully Ainge is trolling this board too.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: libermaniac on February 06, 2013, 09:31:07 AM
I never root to loose in the ML year.  I can't do it.   But I do think we are setting ourselves for some dark years to come if we do not act now.   We are not winning it this year.

There are going to be dark years regardless of whether we blow up the team.  I mean, who are we going to acquire in trade that prevents / seriously shortens our rebuilding?

My thought is, since that process is going to suck terribly, why not get a year or two more of enjoyment out of this team?  Watching playoff basketball, and watching Hall of Famers as they wind down their careers, is a lot better of an experience than being in the lottery.

Funny, I disagree.  What I love most about basketball is building a team and hope for improvement.  When a team has peaked and there's no longer any hope for a title and no longer any hope for individual improvement towards the next title, I get bored - even if they are led by 2 future hall of famers.  Get a team with 5-6 young assets and every night we will see some kind of promise towards the next title, however small - at least we can dream.  And, if they lose, there's always the hope of a good lotto pick.  It's clear not everyone agrees with this sentiment, but it's where I'm coming from.

Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Roy H. on February 06, 2013, 09:34:00 AM
I never root to loose in the ML year.  I can't do it.   But I do think we are setting ourselves for some dark years to come if we do not act now.   We are not winning it this year.

There are going to be dark years regardless of whether we blow up the team.  I mean, who are we going to acquire in trade that prevents / seriously shortens our rebuilding?

My thought is, since that process is going to suck terribly, why not get a year or two more of enjoyment out of this team?  Watching playoff basketball, and watching Hall of Famers as they wind down their careers, is a lot better of an experience than being in the lottery.

Funny, I disagree.  What I love most about basketball is building a team and hope for improvement.  When a team has peaked and there's no longer any hope for a title and no longer any hope for individual improvement towards the next title, I get bored - even if they are led by 2 future hall of famers.  Get a team with 5-6 young assets and every night we will see some kind of promise towards the next title, however small - at least we can dream.  And, if they lose, there's always the hope of a good lotto pick.  It's clear not everyone agrees with this sentiment, but it's where I'm coming from.

Lots of fans feel that way.  To me, though, "hope for improvement" reminds me of these days:

(http://www.nedyken.com/greenhops.jpg)
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Birdman on February 06, 2013, 09:36:34 AM
I would keep this team together..remember this team has alot of new faces on this team than what we had last season. I wouldnt trade anyone. Now if u can get a Moskov kind of player for cheap, i would.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: libermaniac on February 06, 2013, 09:43:52 AM

Lots of fans feel that way.  To me, though, "hope for improvement" reminds me of these days:

(http://www.nedyken.com/greenhops.jpg)

Ya, but just after those days were the young Al Jefferson, Rondo, Perk, Delonte and Tony Allen days.  And, even while we got to enjoy those young talents, there was that exciting hope of landing Durant (or Oden, I know, I know) during that period.  Call me crazy, but that period didn't bum me out at all.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: wdleehi on February 06, 2013, 09:45:36 AM

Lots of fans feel that way.  To me, though, "hope for improvement" reminds me of these days:

(http://www.nedyken.com/greenhops.jpg)

Ya, but just after those days were the young Al Jefferson, Rondo, Perk, Delonte and Tony Allen days.  And, even while we got to enjoy those young talents, there was that exciting hope of landing Durant (or Oden, I know, I know) during that period.  Call me crazy, but that period didn't bum me out at all.


The "what ifs" were great at the time. 


The product on the floor was not. 
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 06, 2013, 10:16:30 AM
Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

I'm not convinced that the Celtics have to go through a "young and suck" phase between the current and the next championship windows.

The only way I could see that being the case is if Rondo turns into a superstar (i.e. legitimate top 4-5 MVP candidate) when he gets back from his injury.

We aren't building a contender post-Pierce/KG without a superstar, and we aren't getting one in free agency.  So it's Rondo, tank for the lottery, or acquire various young assets over the course of a few years and make some trades. 

Personally, I view the latter of the three options as the most likely one.  But it means we have to get young and suck for a few years (at least).

I'm thinking it's going to be a combination of one and three. 
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: PhoSita on February 06, 2013, 12:24:43 PM
Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

I'm not convinced that the Celtics have to go through a "young and suck" phase between the current and the next championship windows.

The only way I could see that being the case is if Rondo turns into a superstar (i.e. legitimate top 4-5 MVP candidate) when he gets back from his injury.

We aren't building a contender post-Pierce/KG without a superstar, and we aren't getting one in free agency.  So it's Rondo, tank for the lottery, or acquire various young assets over the course of a few years and make some trades. 

Personally, I view the latter of the three options as the most likely one.  But it means we have to get young and suck for a few years (at least).

I'm thinking it's going to be a combination of one and three.

That's fine, but it still requires us to get bad enough to be a borderline lottery team for a few seasons.
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 07, 2013, 02:12:28 AM
Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

I'm not convinced that the Celtics have to go through a "young and suck" phase between the current and the next championship windows.

The only way I could see that being the case is if Rondo turns into a superstar (i.e. legitimate top 4-5 MVP candidate) when he gets back from his injury.

We aren't building a contender post-Pierce/KG without a superstar, and we aren't getting one in free agency.  So it's Rondo, tank for the lottery, or acquire various young assets over the course of a few years and make some trades. 

Personally, I view the latter of the three options as the most likely one.  But it means we have to get young and suck for a few years (at least).

I'm thinking it's going to be a combination of one and three.

That's fine, but it still requires us to get bad enough to be a borderline lottery team for a few seasons.

Could you explain why that's the case?
Title: Re: ESPN's 5-on-5: What's the best Kevin Garnett trade the Celtics can make?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 07, 2013, 02:45:57 AM
Because we'll have to get young and suck eventually.

I'm not convinced that the Celtics have to go through a "young and suck" phase between the current and the next championship windows.

The only way I could see that being the case is if Rondo turns into a superstar (i.e. legitimate top 4-5 MVP candidate) when he gets back from his injury.

We aren't building a contender post-Pierce/KG without a superstar, and we aren't getting one in free agency.  So it's Rondo, tank for the lottery, or acquire various young assets over the course of a few years and make some trades. 

Personally, I view the latter of the three options as the most likely one.  But it means we have to get young and suck for a few years (at least).

I'm thinking it's going to be a combination of one and three.

That's fine, but it still requires us to get bad enough to be a borderline lottery team for a few seasons.

Could you explain why that's the case?

It's the most probable, given the current information. Right now it looks like Danny is going to trust his drafting record, and build assets around Rondo, with the team maturing around him, or trading for the pieces. Right now our long term pieces are Sully, Bradley, and spare parts. Possibly Green elevates himself to piece or asset, but his contract is pretty heavy bidness at the moment.

Lee and Bass are spare parts for a contender, nut unlikely building parts for a franchise on the mend, unless they're part of a package of the future assets we have, including our draft picks.

So to me the path is one of two ways; trade our current assets for future assets (Pierce/Garnett being the more prominent, including Lee, Bass and Green), trade our future assets for current assets, or stand pat.

If we're standing pat, you let Pierce and Garnett play, and hold on to the future assets (notably the 2014 puck and beyond) , and pray we draft well.