Why is scoring so hard for us to do while Philly does it at will?

[ChapelHillCeltic]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

[CelticsFanNC]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  Rondo didn't play great last night for sure but it hard for a pass first PG to excel when no one is hitting shots.  It is even harder for a guy who is as good as anyone in the NBA in the open court to play his best when no one is running because their legs are old and tired.

[BballTim]

pls can anyone explain like i'm a 6-year-old?

Our offense is built around jump shooters who can't create their own shot or penetrate inside for easy buckets.  The only guy who can provide consistent offense is Paul Pierce and despite playing well tonight he's not 100%.

Ray mainly is there to spread the floor and hit threes, but he has been dreadful because of his ankle (and his legs aren't "there", I imagine).

Beyond that it's basically mid-range shots from Bass and KG.  Rondo himself is a limited offensive player... moreso than any of the other "elite" point guards.  Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rose, Westbrook... they can all score consistently and at will.  Rondo's shooting is borderline inept.  Luckily for Rondo our two big men (KG and Bass) are usually not operating around the paint (since they are primarily mid-range shooters)... so our opponents usually have to defend them away from the paint... which means Rondo can often penetrate in for layups without hitting a road block.  Beyond those layups, you really can't count on Rondo for much offensively.  He's a brilliant passer, but if our guys (Pietrus, Bass, KG, Ray) aren't hitting their shots... you have games like tonight where Rondo only gets 6 assists.

  Rondo's not the scorer most of those point guards, but he's better at running an offense and passing than any of them aside from Nash and possibly Paul. You note that we don't have players who can create their own shot or get easy buckets on their own, yet fail to make the connection that not having such players makes it exponentially more difficult for Rondo to get the team to score efficiently, which he does.

  It's also true that our offense runs at least as well with a center in the low post, like Shaq or probably even Perk. Rondo's scoring isn't that important to our offense, his passing and the way he runs the offense and positions is.

  And it's true that you can have the occasional game where nobody's hitting their shots and Rondo gets 6 assists. In fact there were 2 games this year where Rondo played at least 30 minutes and got 6 or less assists. There were a few other games where he didn't get a lot of minutes, including games where he was injured or ejected, but you get the point.

[BballTim]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

[scaryjerry]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

Yep. rondos fault!

HAHAHAHAHAH

There hasnt been a single celtic play 2 good games in a row

Not to mention this thread is absurd. We have been the only team to score over 100 in this series, and we did it twice...Philly hasnt won a game by double digits and couldnt even get to 90 last night....really i have absolutely no clue what youre talking about

[CoachBo]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

We win, and score at will, when Rondo is engaged, moving the basketball and attacking off the dribble, blasting to the rim - all things he simply made little or no effort to do last night.

So please, don't start cranking out meaningless numbers in a futile attempt to defend Rondo's effort. It was not there last night, and last night wasn't the first. It is abundantly clear how the Celtics must play to win, and with the ball in his hands primarily, the responsibility for executing that effort falls directly on Rondo. Period.

If we cannot get a competent effort out of a point guard in a closeout game, then perhaps I am ready to reconsider the wisdom of shopping this guy for draft picks.

[scaryjerry]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

We win, and score at will, when Rondo is engaged, moving the basketball and attacking off the dribble, blasting to the rim - all things he simply made little or no effort to do last night.

So please, don't start cranking out meaningless numbers in a futile attempt to defend Rondo's effort. It was not there last night, and last night wasn't the first. It is abundantly clear how the Celtics must play to win, and with the ball in his hands primarily, the responsibility for executing that effort falls directly on Rondo. Period.

If we cannot get a competent effort out of a point guard in a closeout game, then perhaps I am ready to reconsider the wisdom of shopping this guy for draft picks.

No ones making excuses for him... Philly said after game 5 it was solely due to rondo...meaning theyre biggest part of the gameplan for game 6 was attacking rondo, defending rondo and doing everything they can to get him out of his comfort zone....I think you are actually the one making excuses...for the rest of the team, by blaming rondo.
What about KG calling out a whole city and in turn being scared of a rookie? thats pretty cool

[ChapelHillCeltic]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

We win, and score at will, when Rondo is engaged, moving the basketball and attacking off the dribble, blasting to the rim - all things he simply made little or no effort to do last night.

So please, don't start cranking out meaningless numbers in a futile attempt to defend Rondo's effort. It was not there last night, and last night wasn't the first. It is abundantly clear how the Celtics must play to win, and with the ball in his hands primarily, the responsibility for executing that effort falls directly on Rondo. Period.

If we cannot get a competent effort out of a point guard in a closeout game, then perhaps I am ready to reconsider the wisdom of shopping this guy for draft picks.

And 1!

This nails it.  How can someone be considered great when the effort is not consistent?

Rondo has given great performances but I reserve the word "great" for the ones who bring max effort night after night...especially in the playoffs.

[scaryjerry]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

We win, and score at will, when Rondo is engaged, moving the basketball and attacking off the dribble, blasting to the rim - all things he simply made little or no effort to do last night.

So please, don't start cranking out meaningless numbers in a futile attempt to defend Rondo's effort. It was not there last night, and last night wasn't the first. It is abundantly clear how the Celtics must play to win, and with the ball in his hands primarily, the responsibility for executing that effort falls directly on Rondo. Period.

If we cannot get a competent effort out of a point guard in a closeout game, then perhaps I am ready to reconsider the wisdom of shopping this guy for draft picks.

And 1!

This nails it.  How can someone be considered great when the effort is not consistent?

Rondo has given great performances but I reserve the word "great" for the ones who bring max effort night after night...especially in the playoffs.

So theres 1 maybe 2 great players in the league by your standards, and none of them are on the celtics.
There havent been 5 players who have been more consistently great in the playoffs in the last handful of years....Sorry! (Rondo through 6 games was the first since Magic to average at least 14 assists in all the games, how many triple doubles and big games in big spots has he had?)
He played bad last night right along with the rest of the team, really his first BAD game of the playoffs

[CelticG1]

I don't know if it was lack of effort for Rondo last night. It was more mental,  his head just wasn't screwed on right. He couldn't do anything good really. Turning it over, throwing up horrific shots, not passing to the right guys, fumbling the ball, lazy passes.

It was weird how bad he was. He went from, according to Doc one of his best games ever, to probably one of his worst.

[BballTim]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

  It's also fairly baffling that someone would refer to fg% as an obscure stat. And I love to see Rondo run the ball up court to play 1v3 as much as the next guy, but the fact that he'd be alone in that faster pace is somewhat important. Take Bradley off the court and replace him with a hobbled Ray and, like it or not, we don't have much of a transition game. Rushing the ball up court loses it's effectiveness when the defense is already back and in position.

[mctyson]

Let's get the notion that Philly is scoring at will out of here, they are averaging under 90 pts a game.

But why is our offense so hot and cold?

Philly's defensive strategy has been pretty simple this series:  double-team Paul, Ray, and KG at every opportunity, converge on Rondo drives, and make the 5th guy beat them with jumpers.

It is no secret that our worst offensive games have come when Bass has been unable to hit jumpers, Rondo has not solved the interior defense (or hit jumpers), and KG has not hit jumpers.

We are not going to be getting any significant offense from Ray Allen.  Even if he gets the ball in scoring position he is being hounded or doubled, forcing him to drive which we all know is not his strong suit.

Pierce has not gotten the volume of shots because Iguodala is defending him and on top of that he is getting doubled.  He is doing a better job of driving and getting to the free throw line but this also leads to turnovers and some wasted possessions.

Bass and KG will continue to get open outside looks.  They have to make them.  But what if they are cold again?

The key, as always, is Rondo.  Philly realized that he was the spark in Game 5, so they really clamped down on any interior penetration by him.  All his layups were wild off-balance attempts because he was under pressure.  When Rondo is attacking the rim and getting easy 2's, it takes pressure off of the jump shooters to carry the offense.  They relax, they hit shots.

There is no doubt in my mind that as the team struggled to hit the open shots in the 1st quarter, the team said "uh oh, we don't have it tonight."  That's why you saw Pierce chewing out Rondo on the bench - we needed something on O from him and we didn't get it.

[BballTim]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

We win, and score at will, when Rondo is engaged, moving the basketball and attacking off the dribble, blasting to the rim - all things he simply made little or no effort to do last night.

So please, don't start cranking out meaningless numbers in a futile attempt to defend Rondo's effort. It was not there last night, and last night wasn't the first. It is abundantly clear how the Celtics must play to win, and with the ball in his hands primarily, the responsibility for executing that effort falls directly on Rondo. Period.

If we cannot get a competent effort out of a point guard in a closeout game, then perhaps I am ready to reconsider the wisdom of shopping this guy for draft picks.

And 1!

This nails it.  How can someone be considered great when the effort is not consistent?

Rondo has given great performances but I reserve the word "great" for the ones who bring max effort night after night...especially in the playoffs.

  When the team's in a funk, not hitting their shots, hesitant to shoot and not even doing a great job of getting open people here summarize that as Rondo not giving a full effort.

[Celts Fan 92]

Philly hasn't scored more then 100 points in dis series are they really "scoring at will"?

[CelticG1]

Good question...yet Rondo is a great point guard?!?!

How can the PG be great yet this offense stinks to high heaven?!?

Baffling.

  What's baffling is people not seeing what he does for the offense. But we're 5th in the playoffs in fg%, just like we were in the season. He's getting the team a good amount of open shots, our shooting has been fairly off. If Ray and Paul were a little bit healthier and Bass was hitting a few more open shots Rondo's assists per game would probably be double that of any other pg in the playoffs.

What's baffling is people relying on obscure numbers to defend a point guard who simply refuses to run this injury-compromised team correctly.

This game was lost last night - as others have been in this series - to pace.

We cannot win when Rondo is content to walk the ball slowly into the frontcourt and dump it off to the nearest stationary wing, as he was last night.

It is that reason why scoring is so hard for us.

We win, and score at will, when Rondo is engaged, moving the basketball and attacking off the dribble, blasting to the rim - all things he simply made little or no effort to do last night.

So please, don't start cranking out meaningless numbers in a futile attempt to defend Rondo's effort. It was not there last night, and last night wasn't the first. It is abundantly clear how the Celtics must play to win, and with the ball in his hands primarily, the responsibility for executing that effort falls directly on Rondo. Period.

If we cannot get a competent effort out of a point guard in a closeout game, then perhaps I am ready to reconsider the wisdom of shopping this guy for draft picks.

And 1!

This nails it.  How can someone be considered great when the effort is not consistent?

Rondo has given great performances but I reserve the word "great" for the ones who bring max effort night after night...especially in the playoffs.

  When the team's in a funk, not hitting their shots, hesitant to shoot and not even doing a great job of getting open people here summarize that as Rondo not giving a full effort.

Do you think he had a terrible game or do you think it was a matter of guys not hitting shots.

He needs to affect the game more even if guys aren't hitting shots. He is supposed to be running the offense and be directing these guys so if they are not in the right spots he needs to demand they should be. Isn't that what Doc basically said was the reason Rondo had such a good game in game 5?

If guys aren't hitting outside shots he needs to get them easier looks. If guys aren't running the plays correctly he needs to demand it from them. If he was going to be the primary ballhandler all game and especially down the stretch he needed to lead.