Better to be swept in Round 1 and pick #15... or have 9th best draft odds?

[GreenFaith1819]

Stay the course, Danny.

We did the right thing in making the playoffs.

If you "try" to tank..."try" to lose...whatever....you can breed a climate of losing. The players aren't dumb...they'll see that. That losing will spread, becomes contagious. Players start getting attitudes...playing lazy....not hussling.

At least with THIS group we have a culture of winning.

IMO, outside of Oak, KAT and maybe DeAngelo Russell there are NO other immediate game-changers in this draft....NY drafting Kristaps has evidently made Melo LIVID, LOL.

Just stay the course, Danny...many of us, including myself, were upset on draft night, but I was upset on draft night of 2007, too.

And we all know what happened after that draft.

Danny has done it before and he can do it again.

You and others using this psychology of a winning culture and losing mentality need to stop.  It's not even a measurable excuse.  It's just something anti tankers use to make themselves feel better about their stance.  Everyday these young men make a choice to compete or not and it has nothing to do with what they did the week before.  If the mindset is right they'll put themselves in a position to win.  Doesn't matter what "culture" they're in.  Hell they were below .500.  What kinda culture does that suggest?

So, are you for tanking? Like PHI?

Is there ANY guarantee that, in tanking, we would've got a decent pick? So, you like leaving it up to chance, then?

"The opportunity to draft Oak or KAT is worth it", huh....even if/when the ping pong balls don't fall our way.

You know, PHI, as sexy as they look on paper, has an interesting story. I read somewhere that they are trying stuff that no other NBA team is trying, to foster winning there.

I read that they even have an Ex-Seal as a consultant. I wonder if it's one of THESE SEALS



Or one of THESE:



My guess is it's the small cuddly-wuddly kind, because these current Sixers aren't tough and don't look to be winning any time soon - no matter who they draft.

And the fact that we were below 500 doesn't matter...we made the playoffs, despite losing our two best players to trades, despite having one of our best players (Sully and IT) get injured, despite trying to get new acquisitions IT and Crowder acclimated to the team.

We made the playoffs with a rookie PG that got better and more experience. Zeller developed quite well under CBS, and - despite my disappointment with draft night - still have our assets left.

As each NBA season starts, sadly - players WILL get hurt...All-Stars, role players, you name it. WHEN (not if) that happens, you can be sure that Danny will be ready to make some deals as teams become desperate next season.

And in the meantime, BOS will keep winning, much to the chagrin of the tankers. Marcus will continue to develop, as will Zeller. We'll struggle vs some teams of course, but we'll win our fair share.

And a big trade is always around the corner...never know what can happen.

[LooseCannon]

If I knew that Winslow would be there at #10, I would have given up the playoff run, even though it was fun at the time.

Heck, I would have settled for the #15, because there's at least a chance that Kelly Oubre is special. We could have avoided the Cavs, too, and had a fighting chance against the Hawks.

Oh, well. It was an entertaining season.

Ainge probably takes Rozier at #15, then, because he probably thinks Rozier has a better chance than Oubre of being special.

[Real World]

Making the playoffs was misguided.  Making the playoffs as a bottom seed isn't without some benefit, in that a rookie NBA coach got his first taste of playoff basketball, as well as many of the young players.  Ideally though, the C's would have fought for a shot down the stretch, and then faded into the lottery.   Had we done just that, we'd be talking Justise Winslow or Myles Turner right now.  Maybe even someone higher, since a pick at #9 would have been more plausible to teams willing to trade down a few slots.  Hopefully, many of the Celtics younger fans, learned what I did over the 20 years spanning the Bird & KG era.  That mediocrity is the worst possible outcome in the NBA.  If you aren't good, you better suck.  Not bad or good enough is a terrible place to be in the NBA.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Making the playoffs was misguided.  Making the playoffs as a bottom seed isn't without some benefit, in that a rookie NBA coach got his first taste of playoff basketball, as well as many of the young players.  Ideally though, the C's would have fought for a shot down the stretch, and then faded into the lottery.   Had we done just that, we'd be talking Justise Winslow or Myles Turner right now.  Maybe even someone higher, since a pick at #9 would have been more plausible to teams willing to trade down a few slots.  Hopefully, many of the Celtics younger fans, learned what I did over the 20 years spanning the Bird & KG era.  That mediocrity is the worst possible outcome in the NBA.  If you aren't good, you better suck.  Not bad or good enough is a terrible place to be in the NBA.

With that knowledge you should also be aware that way more than half the league are in one of those situations every season, no matter who they have on their team. Melo is one example of many.

[Csfan1984]

Guys you all keep saying "hindsight is everything", but in my original post I mention that 15+26 is probably not getting us a top 10 pick.  I explicitly say the team is going to get swept. I explicitly say there will be a real cost associated with making the playoffs.  I mentioned guys like elfrid Payton last year and Andre Drummond as the kind of players we could potentially miss out on by picking outside the top 10. I was prepared for this outcome in march. This is why I can't be mad about our failure to trade up.  We had the foresight to know this was the drawback of making a pointless playoff push.

The only tangible benefit was keeping brad happy.  And if you disagree that it's a tangible benefit, you have every right to be frustrated.  The last 11 games of the season may have set us back even further in our quest for relevance. Here's hoping some free agents are dumb enough to think those 11 games made a difference. Here's hoping the trade values of your players took a spike due to those 11 games.  Otherwise... Ouch.

An I told you so post? Look I was pro tank and wanted things shut down hard when IT fell hard. Yet I don't think it's necessary to bump a post and drop an I told you so about this one. Everyone is mourning this decision or in denial and will stay in denial. No need for the revisiting.

Denial so you talked to everyone who was happy that they made playoffs?

Read the whole thing and it's self-explanatory. The fact is C's were better off not making playoffs and getting the 9th pick. If people deny that then they are in denial, simple. If they come to terms with it then there is regret. But we don't have beat that drum all darn off-season we need to move on. What is done is done.

[SHAQATTACK]

It's hard to make a team bust their butts all season, then 2/3 way though decide ......now we are going to LOoSE on purpose ?   That's demoralizing to the coach and players .

I think you have to decide at the beginning 1/4 or 1/3 of season .....like LA and NY did ....are we going to shut people down, trade or let people go .....shoot for top five lottery record

Or

Are we going to play the thing out and let them go as far as we can



The issue with the Celtics is .......we hired a Great young coach .......NY and LA have poor junk coaches ....that are there for the option of rebuilding or tanking ......who,are in training and will do what ever they are told by the GM .

To get CBS ......you can bet your bottom dollar the PROMiSE to him was .....no direct tanking .....

CBS is just too smart and proud to go along with much tanking .   He is coach and only thinks win.


So......I just don't think part of the CBS contract .....what he was promised included him to be a tanking coach ........he is always trying to win ......it kills him to think the other way.

Frankly ......with CBS not sure you can tank......look at all the horrible messes he was given and he managed pretty good showings to be honest ....not many coaches could have done what he did .....especially a rookie coach.


So....... Unless you fire CBS and hire a no name interim. Nothing coach like La , NY or Philly  or even a yes man like Spo in Miami .....I just don't see Celtics being lower than a 9 th pick from now on.

Simply ......CBS ain't tanking ......he is professional ......he probably considers that beneath him.

We didn't need to tank.  We were just 3 losses out of the 10th pick.  If Ainge had just bought out Prince immediately, we probably would have had those losses.  I'd say playing Prince and then trading him for Jerebko and Datome was meaningless but it probably cost us Winslow.   

I agree 100 % ......same with year before a real tank job those last 10 games with Rondo would have moved us up a notch.

What bothers me talking trash to each other....whenyou or me or nobody on the board has a ANY say in the matter. Neither do 99% of the players in the league HOW the business is run.    Most coaches have limited input .

No amount of fussing is going to change Danny or the Owners.

The owners and their GM decide  the Path ...

I hate hearing idiots bad mouth players for trying to do their job.....win games

You really don't expect a coach to rig games to fail....?

It's not the players job to loose. .....that's plain stupid.


The NBA has created this tanking mess with their parity efforts . 

The Celtics front office apparently does not buy into it.......the owners .


Wish the complainers would scream at the a Owners and GM and not bad mouth the fans who want to win games and see the team trying it's hardest.  Putting a sorry D league team on the court on purpose is cheating the paying fans.

But the NBA gas created this monster......and teams like Philly have no scruples .....no regard for fans or professionalism.......it screws up the normal rebuilding processes of other teams .......Celtics are really a bad team......but tanking teams have made them better by virtue of tanking , instead of rebuilding and still playing good honest basketball. So the Celtics can 't rebuild now fast ...because they are doing things the right way , or way the NBA intended .

NBA ...needs to up a stop to MULTIPLE year tanking schemes.......once your in the top 5 .....you can tank for say three years .......they can stop it if they want to......fans need to complain .

[slamtheking]

It's hard to make a team bust their butts all season, then 2/3 way though decide ......now we are going to LOoSE on purpose ?   That's demoralizing to the coach and players .

I think you have to decide at the beginning 1/4 or 1/3 of season .....like LA and NY did ....are we going to shut people down, trade or let people go .....shoot for top five lottery record

Or

Are we going to play the thing out and let them go as far as we can



The issue with the Celtics is .......we hired a Great young coach .......NY and LA have poor junk coaches ....that are there for the option of rebuilding or tanking ......who,are in training and will do what ever they are told by the GM .

To get CBS ......you can bet your bottom dollar the PROMiSE to him was .....no direct tanking .....

CBS is just too smart and proud to go along with much tanking .   He is coach and only thinks win.


So......I just don't think part of the CBS contract .....what he was promised included him to be a tanking coach ........he is always trying to win ......it kills him to think the other way.

Frankly ......with CBS not sure you can tank......look at all the horrible messes he was given and he managed pretty good showings to be honest ....not many coaches could have done what he did .....especially a rookie coach.


So....... Unless you fire CBS and hire a no name interim. Nothing coach like La , NY or Philly  or even a yes man like Spo in Miami .....I just don't see Celtics being lower than a 9 th pick from now on.

Simply ......CBS ain't tanking ......he is professional ......he probably considers that beneath him.

We didn't need to tank.  We were just 3 losses out of the 10th pick.  If Ainge had just bought out Prince immediately, we probably would have had those losses.  I'd say playing Prince and then trading him for Jerebko and Datome was meaningless but it probably cost us Winslow.   

I agree 100 % ?...same with year before a real tank job those last 10 games with Rondo would have moved us up a notch.

What bothers me talking trash to each other....whenyou or me or nobody on the board has a ANY say in the matter. Neither do 99% of the players in the league HOW the business is run.    Most coaches have limited input .

No amount of fussing is going to change Danny or the Owners.

The owners and their GM decide  the Path ...

I hate hearing idiots bad mouth players for trying to do their job.....win games

You really don't expect a coach to rig games to fail....?

It's not the players job to loose. .....that's plain stupid.


The NBA has created this tanking mess with their parity efforts . 

The Celtics front office apparently does not buy into it.......the owners .


Wish the complainers would scream at the a Owners and GM and not bad mouth the fans who want to win games and see the team trying it's hardest.  Putting a sorry D league team on the court on purpose is cheating the paying fans.

But the NBA gas created this monster......and teams like Philly have no scruples .....no regard for fans or professionalism.......it screws up the normal rebuilding processes of other teams .......Celtics are really a bad team......but tanking teams have made them better by virtue of tanking , instead of rebuilding and still playing good honest basketball. So the Celtics can 't rebuild now fast ...because they are doing things the right way , or way the NBA intended .

NBA ?needs to up a stop to MULTIPLE year tanking schemes.......once your in the top 5 .....you can tank for say three years .......they can stop it if they want to......fans need to complain .

TP = couldn't agree more on the bolded part

[GreenWarrior]

Stay the course, Danny.

We did the right thing in making the playoffs.

If you "try" to tank..."try" to lose...whatever....you can breed a climate of losing. The players aren't dumb...they'll see that. That losing will spread, becomes contagious. Players start getting attitudes...playing lazy....not hussling.

At least with THIS group we have a culture of winning.

IMO, outside of Oak, KAT and maybe DeAngelo Russell there are NO other immediate game-changers in this draft....NY drafting Kristaps has evidently made Melo LIVID, LOL.

Just stay the course, Danny...many of us, including myself, were upset on draft night, but I was upset on draft night of 2007, too.

And we all know what happened after that draft.

Danny has done it before and he can do it again.

You and others using this psychology of a winning culture and losing mentality need to stop.  It's not even a measurable excuse.  It's just something anti tankers use to make themselves feel better about their stance.  Everyday these young men make a choice to compete or not and it has nothing to do with what they did the week before.  If the mindset is right they'll put themselves in a position to win.  Doesn't matter what "culture" they're in.  Hell they were below .500.  What kinda culture does that suggest?

well said.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Stay the course, Danny.

We did the right thing in making the playoffs.

If you "try" to tank..."try" to lose...whatever....you can breed a climate of losing. The players aren't dumb...they'll see that. That losing will spread, becomes contagious. Players start getting attitudes...playing lazy....not hussling.

At least with THIS group we have a culture of winning.

IMO, outside of Oak, KAT and maybe DeAngelo Russell there are NO other immediate game-changers in this draft....NY drafting Kristaps has evidently made Melo LIVID, LOL.

Just stay the course, Danny...many of us, including myself, were upset on draft night, but I was upset on draft night of 2007, too.

And we all know what happened after that draft.

Danny has done it before and he can do it again.

You and others using this psychology of a winning culture and losing mentality need to stop.  It's not even a measurable excuse.  It's just something anti tankers use to make themselves feel better about their stance.  Everyday these young men make a choice to compete or not and it has nothing to do with what they did the week before.  If the mindset is right they'll put themselves in a position to win.  Doesn't matter what "culture" they're in.  Hell they were below .500.  What kinda culture does that suggest?

So, are you for tanking? Like PHI?

Is there ANY guarantee that, in tanking, we would've got a decent pick? So, you like leaving it up to chance, then?

"The opportunity to draft Oak or KAT is worth it", huh....even if/when the ping pong balls don't fall our way.

You know, PHI, as sexy as they look on paper, has an interesting story. I read somewhere that they are trying stuff that no other NBA team is trying, to foster winning there.

I read that they even have an Ex-Seal as a consultant. I wonder if it's one of THESE SEALS



Or one of THESE:



My guess is it's the small cuddly-wuddly kind, because these current Sixers aren't tough and don't look to be winning any time soon - no matter who they draft.

And the fact that we were below 500 doesn't matter...we made the playoffs, despite losing our two best players to trades, despite having one of our best players (Sully and IT) get injured, despite trying to get new acquisitions IT and Crowder acclimated to the team.

We made the playoffs with a rookie PG that got better and more experience. Zeller developed quite well under CBS, and - despite my disappointment with draft night - still have our assets left.

As each NBA season starts, sadly - players WILL get hurt...All-Stars, role players, you name it. WHEN (not if) that happens, you can be sure that Danny will be ready to make some deals as teams become desperate next season.

And in the meantime, BOS will keep winning, much to the chagrin of the tankers. Marcus will continue to develop, as will Zeller. We'll struggle vs some teams of course, but we'll win our fair share.

And a big trade is always around the corner...never know what can happen.

Bolded.

In life, always prepare. You never know when an opportunity arises.

No matter what your philosophy is.

I'm just glad our management is not like Cleveland's management. Or Sacramento's. Or Brooklyn.

You may disagree with not full out tanking. Consider it a suboptimal strategy. But he's not trading young guns for vets to fill seats. Danny Ainge was prepared and this is a well run team.

[MBunge]

Making the playoffs was misguided.  Making the playoffs as a bottom seed isn't without some benefit, in that a rookie NBA coach got his first taste of playoff basketball, as well as many of the young players.  Ideally though, the C's would have fought for a shot down the stretch, and then faded into the lottery.   Had we done just that, we'd be talking Justise Winslow or Myles Turner right now.  Maybe even someone higher, since a pick at #9 would have been more plausible to teams willing to trade down a few slots.  Hopefully, many of the Celtics younger fans, learned what I did over the 20 years spanning the Bird & KG era.  That mediocrity is the worst possible outcome in the NBA.  If you aren't good, you better suck.  Not bad or good enough is a terrible place to be in the NBA.

I loathe the whole tanking argument but at least the guys who want to tank for the worst record in the league have a point.  But tanking for #9?  In the last 20 years, only two Nowinski and Tracey McGrady have been taken #9 and become franchise players and those kind of players are NEVER available at #9 any more.

Mike

[Neurotic Guy]

I really can't see how anyone could say we are better off today having made the playoffs than having dipped a few more games under .500 ahead of Miami (in draft order). 

The statement above is not an endorsement of tanking.  Brad Stevens and the players always have to try to win.  Two things could have  legitimately happened to lessen the likelihood of making the playoffs that I would have been OK with: 1) Danny could have avoided strengthening the team by making the IT trade (though a good trade, it cost us between 5-8 places in draft position) ; 2) CBS could have decided to play James Young big minutes to get him experience in lieu of others like Gigi or ET.   

That said, the players on the court and coaches have to try to win, and anything less is unacceptable.  I just wish the C's had not made the playoffs.  I was actively rooting for them to lose down the stretch.  I wanted them to be bad enough to miss the playoffs and finish with #10 or lower.   

We'd all (ok, most of us would) be happier about this team right now if that had happened.

[footey]

Making the playoffs was misguided.  Making the playoffs as a bottom seed isn't without some benefit, in that a rookie NBA coach got his first taste of playoff basketball, as well as many of the young players.  Ideally though, the C's would have fought for a shot down the stretch, and then faded into the lottery.   Had we done just that, we'd be talking Justise Winslow or Myles Turner right now.  Maybe even someone higher, since a pick at #9 would have been more plausible to teams willing to trade down a few slots.  Hopefully, many of the Celtics younger fans, learned what I did over the 20 years spanning the Bird & KG era.  That mediocrity is the worst possible outcome in the NBA.  If you aren't good, you better suck.  Not bad or good enough is a terrible place to be in the NBA.

I loathe the whole tanking argument but at least the guys who want to tank for the worst record in the league have a point.  But tanking for #9?  In the last 20 years, only two Nowinski and Tracey McGrady have been taken #9 and become franchise players and those kind of players are NEVER available at #9 any more.

Mike

And yet Ainge offered  4 first round picks for the number 9.  Go figure.

[GreenWarrior]

it's a difficult thing trying to lose while getting better.

I don't believe in playing guys just to play 'em. that does nothing for nobody. so while I would have loved to see Young play more, I don't want him out there if he's not able to play the right way and if someone is actually better than him.

but here's where the conflict comes in. playing vets like Bass, Wallace, Prince over these guys is doing no good for us either. and essentially doing the same thing but with nothing to actually show for it.

this is why I've said anyone with 3-4 yrs of experience should have just been removed from this team. let the young guys have at it and compete for mins.

and if they actually make the playoffs then, then we can actually know we're onto something. and if we lose we should have a high draft pick to show for it. win win imo.   

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

It is very surprising that anyone chose being swept in Round 1 particularly with the benefit of hindsight. How could you possibly say making the playoffs is better when the Celtics have worse players because of it? Tanking gives a team better players without having to go through free agency, isn't that painfully obvious? We all saw it on draft night, if the Celtics had a top 10 pick they would have a nice player to build around, it is a fact, not theory. Justice Winslow was the 10th pick and all the Heat had to do was not make the playoffs to get him. Was I the only one who watched the draft? Does everyone on this site have to overthink everything?

[BitterJim]

We weren't gonna miss the playoffs unless we decided not to do the IT deal, so the real question is: would you rather have IT, make the playoffs, and pick 16th, or have the Cavs pick, miss the playofds, and pick #10?

I'll take IT over a few extra draft spots any day.