Better to be swept in Round 1 and pick #15... or have 9th best draft odds?

[Roy H.]

Oh, and I also don't believe that this whole discussion has any value, at all. Neither for the future of the franchise, it's current state, or as a theoretical exercise from which we can draw conclusions about the art of rebuilding in general.

95%+ of the discussion on here probably falls into that category.

[JBcat]

If I knew that Winslow would be there at #10, I would have given up the playoff run, even though it was fun at the time.

Heck, I would have settled for the #15, because there's at least a chance that Kelly Oubre is special. We could have avoided the Cavs, too, and had a fighting chance against the Hawks.

Oh, well. It was an entertaining season.

I kind of agree here, but I would think that going 24 and 12 to end the season would increase players values on our team. 

[GreenWarrior]

even if this team made it to the 2nd or 3rd rnd. it wouldn't have been worth it. I'd still feel they're far away from being a contender.   

[Robb]

It's not like we're unused to the situation of Plan A backfiring, though, right? In 2007 it was Durant or the 08 team. If we completely miss out on FAs, then we'll see, but door number 2 hasn't been all Ron Mercers and Half a season of Chauncey Billupses.

Is bumping threads that bad, though? Obviously it can be done meanspiritedly, but to re engage a discussion or to even say, "well I was an idiot" I think it's ok.

[JHTruth]

Losing is never an option. We have built a reputation for rebuilding the right way. That may attract a free agent that admires it. Forget what ifs.

Agree... but it's interesting to note that the final 11 games of the season (15 if you include the 4 where the Cavs took us behind a woodshed) almost cost us 5 extra draft picks.  We were reportedly willing to give up 6 draft picks (including our own #16) in order to get the Charlotte pick #9... and it wasn't even enough to get the job done.   Amazing.   

Think about the reverse of that.  We lose 9 of the last 11, end up with Pick #9... and Charlotte offers us 6 draft picks for it.  It's kind of fun to think about, because when I was creating this thread, I was creating it in a bubble where I had no concept of how the value of #9 would compare to #15 and whether or not it really even mattered.    Well, we now have a tangible idea of what the comparative value actually was... and it's startling.  Those final 11 games had a real cost.   

11 games... Less than 3 weeks of NBA basketball... may have dramatically impacted the course of this franchise.   Actually... why am I even saying "may have"?   This is definitive.  Less than 3 weeks of NBA basketball absolutely impacted the course of this franchise.  It's no coincidence that after striking out on Winslow, rumors dropped that we were willing to give 15 mil per year to restricted free agent Tobias Harris.  Here's hoping we make something out of it this summer in free agency... otherwise, this was a total waste.

With all due respect, I believe giving up lottery picks and foregoing talent to keep a second year coach happy in the NBA is ludicrous. Coaches get hired and fired in the league all the time. Heck the Kings are about to fire a coach with 10x the credentials as CBS. Stevens is a big boy he should understand how the league works.

And FA is going to be a flop, brace yourself..

[GreenWarrior]

yes. building around a coach is the most asinine philosophy you could possibly have. good coaches adjust to the players they have and use their players to the best of their ability. it doesn't work the other way around.

it's one of the big things that I have a problem with when it comes to the Kings and Cousins. and that I can't believe they're actually considering trading Cousins "because they're coach doesn't like him". getting a star is 99% of the task of being a serious contender in the NBA(much like finding a qb in the NFL is 99% of the task of being a contender), the rest just falls in place. the Kings should just get rid of Karl(he sucks anyway) and move on.

[dreamgreen]

I don't really believe in making a playoff push unless you have a good chance of winning a series if not it's pointless IMO. So basically you need to be at worse a 5 seed otherwise why bother? Go for the pick. Saying that, the coach and players should always be trying to win, this is up to the GM to make sure they don't get into the playoffs.

[Evantime34]

If I knew that Winslow would be there at #10, I would have given up the playoff run, even though it was fun at the time.

Heck, I would have settled for the #15, because there's at least a chance that Kelly Oubre is special. We could have avoided the Cavs, too, and had a fighting chance against the Hawks.

Oh, well. It was an entertaining season.

This is pretty much how I felt. After Winslow slipped to 10, I realized it would have been better to not trade for Isaiah and be in the lottery.

I think Isaiah was the difference in making the playoffs, so if you are taking an anti playoff stance, then you really should have been against the Thomas trade. That being said if Thomas is able to help recruit a big ticket free agent, then making the playoffs is completely worth it.

[PhoSita]

Nothing to do about it at this point, but it's looking like making the playoffs carried a fairly egregious cost for the franchise.

Not going to say that it was a "mistake," because I can't expect the players or coaches to tank games.  And who knows, maybe nobody selected outside of the top 7 or 8 will turn into anything.  Winslow might not be anything special.

That said, I really question why Danny chose to keep Brandon Bass and exchange Tayshaun Prince for Jerebko and Datome, when he could have just waived Bass and Prince and that probably would have been enough to ensure a drop from playoff contention.

I guess all along the idea was probably, "Hey, if we're not going to be terrible and get a top pick, we might as well be respectable and try to look like a good destination for a free agent." 

I just have no faith that guys like Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge are going to be persuaded to come here just because of one unlikely 40 win playoff run with a bunch of bench caliber role players.

[mahonedog88]

Hindsight is everything in this question.  Personally, I was all for making the playoffs.  This was a fun team to get behind after the all-star break.  And had they had gotten the 8th seed and played Atlanta, I truly believe we could've gotten at least 2 games in that series, if not push it to 7.

But given that we played the Cavs and got swept, these playoffs were really pretty pointless.  And you can't make the whole "growth and experience" argument, because Ainge himself said nobody is untouchable on this team, so growth and experience on a team means nothing if half the team gets traded.

Unfortunately, I have to switch my opinion.  Making the playoffs cost us 5-7 spots in this draft, which is HUGE.  Could've stayed where we were and took Winslow, could've had a much better opportunity at moving up.  It was fun to watch as a viewer, but to make it and not even win a game?  At least when New Orleans makes it and doesn't win a game, they still go home knowing Anthony Davis is on their team and at least have a piece to build around.  The Celtics don't have that.  And making the playoffs cost them the chance at finding a piece of their own

[PhoSita]

At least when New Orleans makes it and doesn't win a game, they still go home knowing Anthony Davis is on their team and at least have a piece to build around.  The Celtics don't have that.

This is really the entire story for the Celtics right now.  It all boils down to that.  At the end of the day, who do you hang your hopes on?  The coach?  That's a tough state of affairs in this league.

[footey]

Losing is never an option. We have built a reputation for rebuilding the right way. That may attract a free agent that admires it. Forget what ifs.

Agree... but it's interesting to note that the final 11 games of the season (15 if you include the 4 where the Cavs took us behind a woodshed) almost cost us 5 extra draft picks.  We were reportedly willing to give up 6 draft picks (including our own #16) in order to get the Charlotte pick #9... and it wasn't even enough to get the job done.   Amazing.   

Think about the reverse of that.  We lose 9 of the last 11, end up with Pick #9... and Charlotte offers us 6 draft picks for it.  It's kind of fun to think about, because when I was creating this thread, I was creating it in a bubble where I had no concept of how the value of #9 would compare to #15 and whether or not it really even mattered.    Well, we now have a tangible idea of what the comparative value actually was... and it's startling.  Those final 11 games had a real cost.   

11 games... Less than 3 weeks of NBA basketball... may have dramatically impacted the course of this franchise.   Actually... why am I even saying "may have"?   This is definitive.  Less than 3 weeks of NBA basketball absolutely impacted the course of this franchise.  It's no coincidence that after striking out on Winslow, rumors dropped that we were willing to give 15 mil per year to restricted free agent Tobias Harris.  Here's hoping we make something out of it this summer in free agency... otherwise, this was a total waste.

I completely agree.  I did not realize at the time that the difference in market value between 9 and 16 in this draft was so cavernous.  Danny (and frankly, most of us on CB) just assumed that we had enough assets to trade up to 9 (not to mention to 4 or, gulp, 3).  Boy were we wrong.

 I think that all Danny can do is continue to hold onto our assets, continue to accumulate, keep drafting smartly, and then wait for a distressed opportunity to arise (e.g., if the Kings actually decide to trade Cousins).  Now that the Lakers drafted Russell, it's fair to say it takes them out of the running to get Cousins. No way do they include Russell in a deal to get Cousins, is my guess. They are probably going to focus on rebuilding up front through free agency (Aldridge, and/or Love) or other means (Robert Upshaw, LOL).


 

[cltc5]

I'm at the acceptance stage of grief.  I think we have a nice collection with a bright future. Remember the big fish isn't always the best catch just ask Detroit with josh smith, lakers with Dwight Howard, etc.  Okakor and towns are the franchise players.  Winslow is a small piece,  we now have four small pieces with potential for more.  We're gonna be ok.

[LarBrd33]

Guys you all keep saying "hindsight is everything", but in my original post I mention that 15+26 is probably not getting us a top 10 pick.  I explicitly say the team is going to get swept. I explicitly say there will be a real cost associated with making the playoffs.  I mentioned guys like elfrid Payton last year and Andre Drummond as the kind of players we could potentially miss out on by picking outside the top 10. I was prepared for this outcome in march. This is why I can't be mad about our failure to trade up.  We had the foresight to know this was the drawback of making a pointless playoff push.

The only tangible benefit was keeping brad happy.  And if you disagree that it's a tangible benefit, you have every right to be frustrated.  The last 11 games of the season may have set us back even further in our quest for relevance. Here's hoping some free agents are dumb enough to think those 11 games made a difference. Here's hoping the trade values of your players took a spike due to those 11 games.  Otherwise... Ouch.

[Section301]

We've spent a lot of time talking about the cost of the playoffs, but no one seems to have brought up the things that were gained (and yes, there were some things that were gained).  They don't  balance out what was lost if one of the picks we *might* have had turns into a stud, but still:

- We know Jae Crowder is a solid playoff rotation player.  His grit n balls defense and offensive aggressiveness translate to the post season. 
- We know that Tyler Zeller's value translates too.  Again, he's not gonna take over a game anytime, but a solid playoff rotation player.
- Marcus Smart has value, and may have a future.  I know there were times when I was relieved to see him coming back on the floor
- Brad Stevens is a good coach, and the spotlight doesn't faze him.

and most importantly:

- Isaiah Thomas' game does *not* translate to the postseason.  I will be very interested to see what he does this offseason. If he's a winner, he will come back with a stronger game and determined to prove that he will not be stopped again.  This is something I'd rather he learn in a year when the C's had NO shot than in a year when his failures would have derailed a possible playoff run.

All that said, I'm still not convinced the loss of the draft pick was worth it.  But especially if it it results in IT coming back improved and focused (perhaps enough to be a key piece in a trade for a legit stud), then at least something was gained.