Author Topic: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes  (Read 2937 times)

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Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2018, 11:19:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

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https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2018/12/12/phoenix-suns-arena-deal-michael-nowakowski/2287692002/

Robert Sarver has begun to tell some council members that he will relocate the Phoenix Suns to Seattle or Las Vegas if the City Council of Phoenix votes down a plan to spend $150 million to upgrade Talking Stick Arena.

As of now, the arena plan does not have the votes to pass.

Phoenix Mayor Thelda Williams and Councilwomen Laura Pastor and Debra Stark have asked for a postponement of the vote.

Talking Stick Resort Arena was built in 1992.

Most team owners are cockroaches.

Billionaires who hold a beloved community asset to ransom so they can make tax payers pay for their teams stadium and still bring in all the profits.

Bucks ownership group did the same thing recently and Milwaukee government caved in (as most do). Stan Kroenke takes the cake though, a man from St Louis steals the Rams from the city because he can make massive profits in Los Angles.

Yeah who can forget the Saint Louis Rams Fearsome Foursome?
they were the LA Rams before they were the St. Louis Rams.  And before they were the LA Rams they were the Cleveland Rams.

For a whopping, what, 9 seasons and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone still alive or under the age of 80 that would associate that organization with CLE first and not LA where they've spent the bulk of their team history.
that wasn't really my point other than that teams move, but they've been the LA Rams a lot longer then they were the St. Louis Rams.
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Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2018, 11:20:25 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's a shame the league can't step in and force certain owners to sell.
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Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2018, 11:50:49 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Suns have had lots of talent and great draft picks .  With all those nice players surely they could field a playoff team by now    So many of those players are helping other teams in the playoffs today.   

Other GMs just watch and wait to take their players , because they can 't have a winning program.

Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2018, 06:19:13 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I'm not American and in Europe we have different systems, but I don't understand how a team 'owner' could move a team to a different city.

If a football club 'owner' in Europe would say that he's going to move the team out of town if the government doesn't pay an Arena for him, then he would not only face heavy critism all over the place. The fans would definitely start an uprising and make his position impossible and force him to step out (he would be lucky to escape the facilities unharmed). I mean the idea alone is completely ridiculous. You don't 'own' a team/club, the club is from the fans and only exists by the fans.

And I know that teams in the NBA have been moved in the past, but I just can't comprehend how that's accepted. I really don't.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 06:54:08 PM by RodyTur10 »

Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2018, 07:37:32 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I'm not American and in Europe we have different systems, but I don't understand how a team 'owner' could move a team to a different city.

If a football club 'owner' in Europe would say that he's going to move the team out of town if the government doesn't pay an Arena for him, then he would not only face heavy critism all over the place. The fans would definitely start an uprising and make his position impossible and force him to step out (he would be lucky to escape the facilities unharmed). I mean the idea alone is completely ridiculous. You don't 'own' a team/club, the club is from the fans and only exists by the fans.

And I know that teams in the NBA have been moved in the past, but I just can't comprehend how that's accepted. I really don't.

The difference here is the fans are very geographically-centric.  You cannot compare this, for example, to Premier League football where Mancester City and Man U play in stadiums next to each other, in a city with 500,00 people (the size of Worcester, MA), but with millions of fans all over the world.

Phoenix is not a big city by any means, and to support the team they need the people who live there to come to the arena.  Nobody outside of that city and region is watching that team, even when they are good.  So if they want the team to stay - go to the games and spend money. 

Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2018, 08:15:10 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I'm not American and in Europe we have different systems, but I don't understand how a team 'owner' could move a team to a different city.

If a football club 'owner' in Europe would say that he's going to move the team out of town if the government doesn't pay an Arena for him, then he would not only face heavy critism all over the place. The fans would definitely start an uprising and make his position impossible and force him to step out (he would be lucky to escape the facilities unharmed). I mean the idea alone is completely ridiculous. You don't 'own' a team/club, the club is from the fans and only exists by the fans.

And I know that teams in the NBA have been moved in the past, but I just can't comprehend how that's accepted. I really don't.

The difference here is the fans are very geographically-centric.  You cannot compare this, for example, to Premier League football where Mancester City and Man U play in stadiums next to each other, in a city with 500,00 people (the size of Worcester, MA), but with millions of fans all over the world.

Phoenix is not a big city by any means, and to support the team they need the people who live there to come to the arena.  Nobody outside of that city and region is watching that team, even when they are good.  So if they want the team to stay - go to the games and spend money.

How is Phoenix not a big city?

1.600.000 people to fill a stadium with a capacity of 18.000. Even if you consider that there is competition from other sports that doesn't seem like a hard thing to do.

(for example: Dutch football club NAC is from the city Breda, which has 180.000 people and the club is doing very poorly but still has 18.000 visitors on average)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 08:23:26 PM by RodyTur10 »

Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2018, 08:44:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm not American and in Europe we have different systems, but I don't understand how a team 'owner' could move a team to a different city.

If a football club 'owner' in Europe would say that he's going to move the team out of town if the government doesn't pay an Arena for him, then he would not only face heavy critism all over the place. The fans would definitely start an uprising and make his position impossible and force him to step out (he would be lucky to escape the facilities unharmed). I mean the idea alone is completely ridiculous. You don't 'own' a team/club, the club is from the fans and only exists by the fans.

And I know that teams in the NBA have been moved in the past, but I just can't comprehend how that's accepted. I really don't.

The difference here is the fans are very geographically-centric.  You cannot compare this, for example, to Premier League football where Mancester City and Man U play in stadiums next to each other, in a city with 500,00 people (the size of Worcester, MA), but with millions of fans all over the world.

Phoenix is not a big city by any means, and to support the team they need the people who live there to come to the arena.  Nobody outside of that city and region is watching that team, even when they are good.  So if they want the team to stay - go to the games and spend money.

How is Phoenix not a big city?

1.600.000 people to fill a stadium with a capacity of 18.000. Even if you consider that there is competition from other sports that doesn't seem like a hard thing to do.

(for example: Dutch football club NAC is from the city Breda, which has 180.000 people and the club is doing very poorly but still has 18.000 visitors on average)
soccer in Europe is no where near the same thing as basketball in the states.
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Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2018, 08:55:34 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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If the Suns could just simply have a semi-successful season. Something like a 40 win season it would help with the way fans feel about the team. They're at the bottom of the barrel every year...year after year.

It's not like the team has no talent either, they have a few potential stars. Yet they don't defend at all, so either the coaches don't stress defense or he can't teach it. This coach is new, a replacement for last years coach. I question the decision making from the owner when he chooses a coaching staff.

Frankly, in Phoenix, the Suns are sort of a sports talk joke. It's difficult being considered a sports joke and then ask for financial concessions from a city.

Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2018, 02:40:55 AM »

Offline GRADYCOLNON

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It is one thing to complain about conditions for what the owner is paying, but the owner is bluffing.  The amount of money he needs to raise for another arena plus relocation fees is too costly in my opinion.  Like, where are the Suns to go?  Maybe he should ask for more reasonable fixes more often so the building doesn't require hundreds of millions.  Plus 1992 or whatever it was is not like 25 years ago.  The Fleet Center, now the Garden, was built right about the same time.  Sure they had a renovation but you don't hear about it from the Celtics complaining to Jacobs.

Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2018, 06:13:33 AM »

Offline Moranis

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It is one thing to complain about conditions for what the owner is paying, but the owner is bluffing.  The amount of money he needs to raise for another arena plus relocation fees is too costly in my opinion.  Like, where are the Suns to go?  Maybe he should ask for more reasonable fixes more often so the building doesn't require hundreds of millions.  Plus 1992 or whatever it was is not like 25 years ago.  The Fleet Center, now the Garden, was built right about the same time.  Sure they had a renovation but you don't hear about it from the Celtics complaining to Jacobs.
Lease is up in 2022.  It won't cost much to move the team at that point since they won't have to buy out a lease.  And he won't need to raise funds for a new arena, as the new city would pay for it.
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Re: Suns owner threatens to move team to Seattle or Vegas over arena disputes
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2018, 05:25:09 PM »

Offline GRADYCOLNON

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It is one thing to complain about conditions for what the owner is paying, but the owner is bluffing.  The amount of money he needs to raise for another arena plus relocation fees is too costly in my opinion.  Like, where are the Suns to go?  Maybe he should ask for more reasonable fixes more often so the building doesn't require hundreds of millions.  Plus 1992 or whatever it was is not like 25 years ago.  The Fleet Center, now the Garden, was built right about the same time.  Sure they had a renovation but you don't hear about it from the Celtics complaining to Jacobs.
Lease is up in 2022.  It won't cost much to move the team at that point since they won't have to buy out a lease.  And he won't need to raise funds for a new arena, as the new city would pay for it.

It will cost over a $100M for a relocation fee, probably closer to 150M.

They also have to get another city to publicly fund building a new stadium and those are about $500M.  And then investing up to 30% to build the new stadium. 

It just doesn't seem like its the option the cheap Sarver is going to make.  It is costly, like up to 300M, which is a far cry from the renovations it will cost the Suns (80M plus 60 over rest of the lease) for a state of the art arena and new practice facility.  Anything over 150M and the Suns don't move, they are just bluffing to force the city of Phoenix hands.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/lease-summary-phoenix-suns.pdf

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2018/12/13/phoenix-suns-arena-deal-worse-than-other-cities-deals-cost-taxes-stadium-arizona-diamondbacks/2301308002/