Pierce: Top 5? Top 10?

[Vermont Green]

I know this is kind of a tired topic but I heard a discussion on Comcast the other night where they were debating where Pierce sits currently in the NBA, specifically whether is was top 5 or top 10.  It is hard to answer off the top of your head so I tried to break it down.  Here are my top 10 NBA players based on ability right now (listed more or less by position):

Paul
Wade
Kobe
LeBron
Duncan
Nowitzki
Garnett
Howard
Amar'e

and of course Pierce.  If I had to pick a starting 5 from this team it would probably be Paul-Kobe-LeBron-Garnett-Howard but that is not necessarily the best 5, just the best 5 to fit the positions.  I think Pierce is ahead of Paul, Howard, and Garnett in terms of overall.  Wade is probably ahead of those as well but not in the starting line-up because I don't see him as a true PG (he would be my combo gaurd off the bench, wow).  My top 5 are (alphabetical):

Kobe
LeBron
Paul
Pierce
Wade

So there it is, I put Pierce tied for 3rd with Wade with the tie breaker going to Pierce for no particular reason other than I like him better and feel he is slightly more clutch.  Wade is a better scorer but Pierce is underrated (although less so lately) in defense (including rebounding).  I recognize there is a chance that I have a homer slant to my view but I will leave it to everyone to set me straight.

[Atzar]

Wouldn't put Dirk or Amare up there.  Neither of them plays D.  Either one of them is just as capable of giving up 30 as he is of pouring in 30.

Joe Johnson, maybe - especially the way he's playing this year.
Tracy McGrady when he's healthy, personal dislike aside. 

Those would be my replacements on that list, I think. 

Anyway, to the actual topic:  The problem I have with Pierce is that he can be shut down.  Kobe really can't.  Same with Bron, Wade, CP3, healthy TMac.  For that reason, I'd stick him sixth behind them, keeping in mind that this is based only on ability - if I could sign any of them to a one-year contract, I'd take Pierce above Wade and McGrady for health reasons.

[xmuscularghandix]

Kobe
Pierce
Lebron
Wade
Paul

Garnett
Howard
Duncan
Nash
McGrady (if he's healthy)

but I think that if ray can trust his ankles and he drives half as well as in the past he could make the top 10, but regardless i'd put him in the 20, maybe even 15.

[Atzar]

Kobe
Pierce
Lebron
Wade
Paul

Garnett
Howard
Duncan
Nash
McGrady (if he's healthy)

but I think that if ray can trust his ankles and he drives half as well as in the past he could make the top 10, but regardless i'd put him in the 20, maybe even 15.

Ehh... maybe a few years ago I'd take Nash in the Top 10, but he's even worse on D than Amare or Dirk. 

[action781]

Magic Johnson said in an interview on NBA.com in the past couple weeks that if he had to start a team from scratch, his first 2 choices would be Kobe and Lebron.  #s 3-5 in no particular order were Duncan, Garnett, and Pierce.  "Chris Paul would be up there too".  I found that interesting and am guessing its just a 1 year opinion, not franchise opinion.

Was it Felger refusing to call Pierce a top 5 player on Comcast?  I think its him that continually does that.

My order of preference (for 1 year) would be:
1.  Kobe
2.  Lebron
3/4.  Duncan and Garnett tie
5/6/7.  Pierce/CP3/Wade
8.  Yao
9.  Nash
10.  McGrady

I remember Wade as being a more elite talent than the other 3, but I just haven't seen enough of him lately and he is too injury prone.  I think the top 7 are the only 7 players that could have a chance at carrying a solid, but not spectacular supporting cast to a championship.

I think Nash is becoming underrated.  Its partly his fault for deferring too much on offense, but I think he's one of the few truly clutch offensive players in the NBA.  Look at his FG and 3PT % over the last 3 seasons, its insane for a pg.  And his poor defense isn't as important as for a big IMO because theres usually a wing like Bell or Bowen that he can guard and isn't relied on for help defense like a big.

[Scalablob990]

Kobe
Pierce
Lebron
Wade
Paul

Garnett
Howard
Duncan
Nash
McGrady (if he's healthy)

but I think that if ray can trust his ankles and he drives half as well as in the past he could make the top 10, but regardless i'd put him in the 20, maybe even 15.

Ehh... maybe a few years ago I'd take Nash in the Top 10, but he's even worse on D than Amare or Dirk. 

I agree 100% with that top 5, and the best part is when any of those 5 face each other, it is always a scoring explosion.

[Vermont Green]

I have seen a couple of "if healthy" caveats assigned to McGrady.  The problem is that he isn't durable and he is not going to be any healthier than he is right now and right now he is not good/healthy enough to be on the list (Top 10 that is).

[soap07]

Kobe
Pierce
Lebron
Wade
Paul

Do you legitimately think that Paul Pierce is a better player than Lebron James?

[Vermont Green]

Wouldn't put Dirk or Amare up there.  Neither of them plays D.  Either one of them is just as capable of giving up 30 as he is of pouring in 30.

Joe Johnson, maybe - especially the way he's playing this year.
Tracy McGrady when he's healthy, personal dislike aside. 

Those would be my replacements on that list, I think. 

Anyway, to the actual topic:  The problem I have with Pierce is that he can be shut down.  Kobe really can't.  Same with Bron, Wade, CP3, healthy TMac.  For that reason, I'd stick him sixth behind them, keeping in mind that this is based only on ability - if I could sign any of them to a one-year contract, I'd take Pierce above Wade and McGrady for health reasons.

I can agree that Dirk is marginal in the top 10 discussion but so would either Johnson or McGrady.  I picked him more by position.

I think durability is a legit factor in deciding.  I guess it is hard to be very specific on selection criteria but I was thinking start a team today to make a run at a championship starting today.  I still pick Pierce before Paul and Wade (although it is very close) but definitely before McGrady.  There was a time when he was in the discussion but not now.

[action781]

I have seen a couple of "if healthy" caveats assigned to McGrady.  The problem is that he isn't durable and he is not going to be any healthier than he is right now and right now he is not good/healthy enough to be on the list (Top 10 that is).

For me, I put McGrady and Wade where they are with health risk considered.  If health was assumed, I think Wade and McGrady would both be above Pierce.

[Vermont Green]

Magic Johnson said in an interview on NBA.com in the past couple weeks that if he had to start a team from scratch, his first 2 choices would be Kobe and Lebron.  #s 3-5 in no particular order were Duncan, Garnett, and Pierce.  "Chris Paul would be up there too".  I found that interesting and am guessing its just a 1 year opinion, not franchise opinion.

I think Magic's Fab 5 is pretty solid and I am surprised not to have seen more Garnett talk from this blog.  I think we saw in the finals last year that even though KG is a fantastic player, that he just doesn't have that little something that allows a player to carry a team to a championship, adn that Pierce does.  Before the season/playoffs, I may have guessed it was the other way around.  There is not right or wrong here but I am not sure I agree with Magic that Duncan and KG are better today than Wade and Paul.  He may be right though (I guess Magic's credentials are a little better than mine).

[Vermont Green]

I have seen a couple of "if healthy" caveats assigned to McGrady.  The problem is that he isn't durable and he is not going to be any healthier than he is right now and right now he is not good/healthy enough to be on the list (Top 10 that is).

For me, I put McGrady and Wade where they are with health risk considered.  If health was assumed, I think Wade and McGrady would both be above Pierce.

I guess I look at it that Wade has a good chance to be 100%, at least for a period of time (say seasons).  And I agree, you could easily argue for Wade over Pierce.  With McGrady, I think what you see right now is what you get.  It is not going to get any better, and it could get a whole lot worse.  Right now, I don't think McGrady is in the "elite" discussion anymore.

[housecall]

Here are my Top 10 players...

1)Lebron
2)Pierce
3)David West
4)Kobe
5)Garnett
6)Joe Johnson
7)Duncan
8)Tony Parker
9)Amare S.
10)CP3

[Atzar]

Here are my Top 10 players...

1)Lebron
2)Pierce
3)David West
4)Kobe
5)Garnett
6)Joe Johnson
7)Duncan
8)Tony Parker
9)Amare S.
10)CP3

David West above CP3?  Seriously?  I wouldn't have him on that list at all, much less above the reason he's an All-Star in the first place.

Vermont, if McGrady can't be on your list, then neither can Wade - they carry the same health risk tag.  And McGrady is definitely not healthy right now - the TMac that Ray scorched wasn't anywhere near 100%. 

[jackson_34]

My Top Ten at present (I'm also trying to take player's proneness to injury into account);

1. Lebron
T2. CP3
T2. Kobe
4. Pierce
5. Wade
6. Joe Johnson
7. Garnett
8. Duncan
9. Boozer
10. DHoward