CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on February 02, 2013, 12:15:01 AM
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Yeah, it was just two minutes in garbage time. And I say this half jokingly. But looks like Melo has a ways to go. I know lots of posters say could he be worse than Collins? Judging by how he looks, I say yes.
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Yeah, it was just two minutes in garbage time. And I say this half jokingly. But looks like Melo has a ways to go. I know lots of posters say could he be worse than Collins? Judging by how he looks, I say yes.
He definitely does have a lot of work to do. In my opinion, he really shouldn't be in Boston at this point. Just not ready yet.
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Yeah, it was just two minutes in garbage time. And I say this half jokingly. But looks like Melo has a ways to go. I know lots of posters say could he be worse than Collins? Judging by how he looks, I say yes.
two garbage minute, you said it yourself. i'll reserve my judgement after i see him play meaningful minutes with kg presumably.
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He is too slow. Didn't look smart out there. And o'quinn a 2nd round pick was picking him apart like he was a joke.
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Jitters, adjusting to the much faster game...
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He looked way, way too slow. So slow I wondered if he'd ever play meaningful minutes in the league.
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Yeah, it was just two minutes in garbage time. And I say this half jokingly. But looks like Melo has a ways to go. I know lots of posters say could he be worse than Collins? Judging by how he looks, I say yes.
I say that Collins isn't as bad as people make him out to be, he is a terrible rebounder for sure and he isn't good at scoring (although he doesn't get ANY shots and rarely touches the ball)... I am looking at a replay of the Orl game and I have paid attention to him in other games... he has to easily be our second best pick setter! He is also a good defender (even with how slow he is). This guy is out there working his butt off every chance he gets, if he was as young as Perk is and on this team with KG, I'd say he would impact this team much like Perk did.
Now Fab, well, this was his first action on the big stage in months... give him a chance to get accustomed to it and he will come around and be better, poor guy over helps, he doesn't know any better... he HAS to over help in the DL, those guys are horrible defenders on his team. He will eventually learn that our guys aren't bad defenders and learn to stay with his man more often (although when he did help when he was suppose to, NO ONE covered his man, leaving him to look like the problem).
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I've been watching the D-League videos and getting somewhat enthused about the big youngster, but he looked completely out of his depth out there tonight.
Hopefully, it's just a matter of getting out the jitters and adjusting to the big league. (I've got to say the guys didn't do him any favors either. Melo was at the scorer's table with a comfortable lead of 19 to 20 with [I think] about 5 minutes left. They then let Orlando go on a little run which made Doc leave Fab sitting around waiting for a couple of extra minutes before he finally let him in).
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This might be one of the most unfair threads i've ever seen on CB. Then against i've seen them for every rookie for the past 5 years.
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It is a very reasonable possibility that Melo will eventually be a solid player but won't be able to provide useful minutes until his third season.
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This might be one of the most unfair threads i've ever seen on CB. Then against i've seen them for every rookie for the past 5 years.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=51998.0
That's the worst.
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Avery Bradley was that awful for more than 2 minutes to start his career. Let's show a LITTLE patience with the big man who is absolutely known to be a multiyear project.
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That'd certainly be an accomplishment.
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the kid played 2 garbage minutes on his FIRST REAL NBA game.
cut him some slack. I've seen a couple of red claws games, and he can run. First day jitters.
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This might be one of the most unfair threads i've ever seen on CB. Then against i've seen them for every rookie for the past 5 years.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=51998.0
That's the worst.
Haha massive TP for you my friend.
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This might be one of the most unfair threads i've ever seen on CB. Then against i've seen them for every rookie for the past 5 years.
Yeah, pretty silly to make a judgment about a guy based on how he plays in a handful of minutes of garbage time.
Until Melo plays 10-20 minutes a night for 5-10 games, we can't really draw any conclusions.
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Until Melo plays 10-20 minutes a night for 5-10 games, we can't really draw any conclusions.
There are reasonable conclusions that one can draw if he doesn't get that playing time.
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Until Melo plays 10-20 minutes a night for 5-10 games, we can't really draw any conclusions.
There are reasonable conclusions that one can draw if he doesn't get that playing time.
Sure, that he's not ready yet, or at least that the coaching staff doesn't think he is, or that it would be better for him to spend more time learning before playing him significant minutes.
That's not the same thing as saying Melo is worse (e.g. less productive / even less skilled offensively etc.) than Jason Collins.
The point is, until he's played some real minutes it's stupid to draw conclusions about his ability to produce at an NBA level because there's just no visible evidence one way or another.
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Like others have said, it was too limited of a sample size to draw too much from it in my opinion. Also, doesn't he have a quad injury or something?
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Give him time. Look at how long it took Courtney Lee to get comfortable in Boston, and even Jeff Green has only just started to come alive in the last month.
You're talking about a guy who's yet to place even 10 minutes of NBA time.
Hell even Sully looked like his game needed alot of work in his first month or so of action.
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LOL!!!! He played like 2 minutes in garbage time against a guy who was already warmed up & playing well.
Unfair thread...
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You could see his bad hands on that rebound. But he looked huge out there and had great size. I think he has been working hard on his body.
Defensively, he is a better help defender and shot blocker than Collins and has great potential there. But he was clearly lost on some of the rotations and still isn't up to snuff and needs work.
I don't think his team mates like him or the they don't respect him because usually guys try to get a guy they like a point or shot when they come in. I saw several times where he was posted up and they ignored him. There could be several reasons for this: 1) They don't like him 2) They were stat padding for themselves 3) They don't trust him or 4) They see him as a threat.
Give him the ball down low when he has position!
Sully had tons of basketball IQ. I don't think Melo does save on defensive. But that is ok because I think he is a hard worker. He looked like he has been in the weight room a lot. Now he just needs to play with a tennis ball against the ball all the time until his hands improve, juggle and do ball handling Maravich drills. If he does this his hands will improve. Hands are easy to improve, foot coordination is much harder.
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I don't think he was a particularly good player in college, and I don't expect him to become a starter in the NBA. That said, it's too early to say anything about where his skills will eventually end up, and it's certainly not fair to make long-term judgments based upon a handful of minutes in his first NBA game.
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The only things Melo's two minutes of garbage time showed me:
He's big.
He's wide.
He needs a better drawstring on his basketball shorts.
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For the record, I'm not calling Melo a bust. I think he was obviously nervous and it showed. My ONLY point was to say that right now, at this moment, that Collins is better prepared to help the Celts than Melo.
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He's big.
He's wide.
He needs a better drawstring on his basketball shorts.
he did look huge.
I was laughing at this shorts issues too, dude was D-ing up with one hand on his pants because the other was holding up his pants.
I don't think he is a bust. He is a project. Our system is built for a limited C because it was designed with Perk in mind.
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Yes, it was only two minutes or whatever but he was a beat slow. He was chasing the play, not keeping up. Same problem that O'Bryant had. That is not something that can be taught. It is innate reaction time.
I fear he is not that good.
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If in those 3 minutes if PT Melo grabbed a couple of rebounds, dunked a ball or two, and has a monster-block on someone, we would be putting him into the HOF.
Mk
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Yes, it was only two minutes or whatever but he was a beat slow. He was chasing the play, not keeping up. Same problem that O'Bryant had. That is not something that can be taught. It is innate reaction time.
I fear he is not that good.
He's been dealing with a leg injury.
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The only things Melo's two minutes of garbage time showed me:
He's big.
He's wide.
He needs a better drawstring on his basketball shorts.
The last point being most glaring IMO.
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For the record, I'm not calling Melo a bust. I think he was obviously nervous and it showed. My ONLY point was to say that right now, at this moment, that Collins is better prepared to help the Celts than Melo.
I agree but still it wouldn't hurt him to get some garbage time minutes here and there, a rookie will be a rookie let him get his feet wet and make some mistakes to learn from. It's not like were super deep.
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This might be one of the most unfair threads i've ever seen on CB. Then against i've seen them for every rookie for the past 5 years.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=51998.0
That's the worst.
yep. that one was pretty terrible. reliving it is a good idea for cb posters one and all. thanks for the trip down memory lane.
as for melo, after watching his red claw videos it is clear his game is NOT ready for the nba yet.
but it is also clear, to me, that he has physical abilities and can become a nba center. how good a center is the key question.
he blocks very well. he now does a decent job of boxing out. give him time and he will do that at the nba level as well.
he has developed a decent jump shot where none existed before. his hook shot will be a nice one in a few years. he is showing me that he can learn to be better.
right now, he is better than perk on offense in terms of abilities.
rebounding...he has to learn to go after those a LOT more. now, he seems to sit under the basket and wait to block shots.
i think he can learn to be a decent center. but he is a project. next year he MIGHT provide some important minutes. but i dont see it this year.
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He's a raw rookie who plays like a raw rookie. There's a reason in the D League, it's so he can improve and hopefully one day improve enough to contribute.
Bad games build experience, what he does with that determines how successful he can become.
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Hve you EVER played basketball....??? If you did, you would realize that NEVER having played in an NBA game, then SITTING ALL game waiting...this is usual doc type.....humiliation of rookies....he is a bad coach for sure.....there was plenty of time in that game to play melo, we had it all along in the bag.....garbage time is the worse time........it shows nothing......doc has a pitifully closed , small mind.......he uses none of his experience, and only goes back to the same routines.....So many things you can do to build up a guys confidence.....play him in real time a few times....2nd, third quarter for 2-5 minutes....then START him.....versus a team with an average big man...with kg at forward to talk to him often out there...or wilcox, who is a very mobile center/forward......this is how you bring a guy about......
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Doc doesn't trust him we were by 15-20 at times and he only put in at the end. I think it was very telling that none of his team mates threw his the ball.
I don't think he is a bust. It's too early but he is a project and not as NBA ready as some here present.
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Bradley proved many wrong, Melo too?
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remember how horrible Bradley looked playing 2-3minutes in garbage time his rookie year?? and he developed into a solid rotation player on this team.
Melo will as well...guy has the potential it is just going to take time. I see him being a rotation player next year, and by year 3 should be a solid contributer.
look how long it took for Perk to develop?
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Bradley proved many wrong, Melo too?
Time will tell like bradley, but i'm willing to vet that he will be better than collins. :D
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Bradley proved many wrong, Melo too?
Time will tell like bradley, but i'm willing to vet that he will be better than collins. :D
Or Haddadi!
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Hve you EVER played basketball....??? If you did, you would realize that NEVER having played in an NBA game, then SITTING ALL game waiting...this is usual doc type.....humiliation of rookies....he is a bad coach for sure.....there was plenty of time in that game to play melo, we had it all along in the bag.....garbage time is the worse time........it shows nothing......doc has a pitifully closed , small mind.......he uses none of his experience, and only goes back to the same routines.....So many things you can do to build up a guys confidence.....play him in real time a few times....2nd, third quarter for 2-5 minutes....then START him.....versus a team with an average big man...with kg at forward to talk to him often out there...or wilcox, who is a very mobile center/forward......this is how you bring a guy about......
TP!!
Who is this guy? ;)
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no he is100x. more gifted than Collins. Collins has like a million years experience on Fab.
you can not bring guy sitting on the bench stone cold for two hours , who has never been in NBA game in his life and expect him to,play great for the last two minutes or really tell anything about him
it took Fab a lot of games in the D league to just begin to play up to that level.......
Fab had not been playing with the Celtics either.....and he has been hurt too
just amazing how impatient fans are......
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
Nice observation.. Lol!
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Doc doesn't trust him we were by 15-20 at times and he only put in at the end. I think it was very telling that none of his team mates threw his the ball.
I don't think he is a bust. It's too early but he is a project and not as NBA ready as some here present.
THAT is an icredibly terrible thing to say.."none of his team mayes trusted him" i have seen many posts from you, and believe you did not mean it this way..... it is the responsibility of the team to make one a member, and greats like kg and pp can bring melo in.....i watched doc kill steamers confidence...hope he doesn't do it to melo...
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
Nice observation.. Lol!
Greg Steimsma and Semih Erden both looked outstanding in our system
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
Nice observation.. Lol!
Greg Steimsma and Semih Erden both looked outstanding in our system
I wouldn't say they looked outstanding. Serviceable backup centers, sure. Outstanding would be reserved for a high-quality starter
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
Nice observation.. Lol!
Greg Steimsma and Semih Erden both looked outstanding in our system
I wouldn't say they looked outstanding. Serviceable backup centers, sure. Outstanding would be reserved for a high-quality starter
Dude, that's a late 2nd rounder and an undrafted who both started and succeeded for an extended stretch. That's outstanding
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
Nice observation.. Lol!
Greg Steimsma and Semih Erden both looked outstanding in our system
I wouldn't say they looked outstanding. Serviceable backup centers, sure. Outstanding would be reserved for a high-quality starter
Dude, that's a late 2nd rounder and an undrafted who both started and succeeded for an extended stretch. That's outstanding
Doesn't matter when they were or weren't drafted, Stiemsma and Erden were decent players. It may be outstanding that they beat the odds, but that does not make them outstanding players.
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Stiemsma and Erden were decent players.
Calling Erden decent is a stretch folks.
THAT is an icredibly terrible thing to say.."none of his team mayes trusted him" i have seen many posts from you, and believe you did not mean it this way..... it is the responsibility of the team to make one a member, and greats like kg and pp can bring melo in.....i watched doc kill steamers confidence...hope he doesn't do it to melo..
Grow up! They don't trust him. Trust is earned. He has not earned it yet. People passed the ball to Stiesmsa after a while his team mates learned he had a jumper.
Anyone who confidence is killed by a coach doesn't belong in the league. I think Greg's NCCAA career did more for killing his confidence than Doc ever done.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/wisconsin/greg-stiemsma
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I've seen plenty of Red Claws games. Melo just needs some time. Every rookie looks pretty bad in our system except for undersized PF's it seems. Every other rookie looks awful. Doc loves the KG/undersized PF combo. He might not see time until KG finally retires..
Nice observation.. Lol!
Greg Steimsma and Semih Erden both looked outstanding in our system
I wouldn't say they looked outstanding. Serviceable backup centers, sure. Outstanding would be reserved for a high-quality starter
Dude, that's a late 2nd rounder and an undrafted who both started and succeeded for an extended stretch. That's outstanding
Doesn't matter when they were or weren't drafted, Stiemsma and Erden were decent players. It may be outstanding that they beat the odds, but that does not make them outstanding players.
You're missing the point. This isn't about beating the odds. The argument was that only undersized 4's look good as rookies in the Celtics system. Steimsma and Erden are both below-average (generous) players who looked good starting at the 5 as rookies in that system. Hence, the argument is wrong. In the case of centers, I think that the opposite is actually true because we ask so little of them offensively and because Garnett covers so much ground defensively.
I think that Fab, when he does get some extended minutes, will probably look much better than his current skill level suggests.
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Stiemsma and Erden were decent players.
Calling Erden decent is a stretch folks.
THAT is an icredibly terrible thing to say.."none of his team mayes trusted him" i have seen many posts from you, and believe you did not mean it this way..... it is the responsibility of the team to make one a member, and greats like kg and pp can bring melo in.....i watched doc kill steamers confidence...hope he doesn't do it to melo..
Grow up! They don't trust him. Trust is earned. He has not earned it yet. People passed the ball to Stiesmsa after a while his team mates learned he had a jumper.
Anyone who confidence is killed by a coach doesn't belong in the league. I think Greg's NCCAA career did more for killing his confidence than Doc ever done.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/wisconsin/greg-stiemsma
Wow, you must have been waiting for that one for a while. Case closed. You should be an attorney. You smoked that dude. TP!
I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was my friend, you sir are no Jack Kennedy!
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Melo will never be an NBA player.
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Stiemsma and Erden were decent players.
Calling Erden decent is a stretch folks.
THAT is an icredibly terrible thing to say.."none of his team mayes trusted him" i have seen many posts from you, and believe you did not mean it this way..... it is the responsibility of the team to make one a member, and greats like kg and pp can bring melo in.....i watched doc kill steamers confidence...hope he doesn't do it to melo..
Grow up! They don't trust him. Trust is earned. He has not earned it yet. People passed the ball to Stiesmsa after a while his team mates learned he had a jumper.
Anyone who confidence is killed by a coach doesn't belong in the league. I think Greg's NCCAA career did more for killing his confidence than Doc ever done.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/wisconsin/greg-stiemsma
Have to credit Stiemsma. The guy never gave up. He must have been really horrible with those stats. That he is in the NBA at all is amazing, let alone starting (due to injuries). Melo will be OK. Give him time. Hope Joseph can make his way back into the league soon. He deserves another shot.
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we need this guy...
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/5/600063/Untitled.png)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkToMdLtIrA