Which center should we sign?

[boscel33]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

[Vermont Green]

Cousins was all star level in 2017-18 for NOP, starting 48 games, averaging 25 pts / 13 rebs and with 5 assists.  Since then, he has played for 5 different teams and been more in the 10 pts, 6 rebs range.  He missed the 2019-20 season completely.  So it is really 5 teams in 3 seasons that he played.

Cousins is an intriguing player for sure.  But GSW, HOU, LAC, MIL, and DEN have all moved on from him after 30 games or less.  Most of these teams are contenting teams, especially the most recent (LAC, MIL, DEN), that could have used a solid back up big.

I don't know where Cousins' head is at.  I doubt anyone does and that is the problem or the risk.  A focused Cousins off the bench, even the diminished version of him, could be a good thing but it is really hard know what you are going to get, or for how long.

I suspect the Celtics want someone more reliable or more predictable for their insurance big, even if that means less potential ceiling.  The Celtics may still grab him.  It does not appear he is coming off the board anytime soon.  But it seems they are seeing who else may get released or otherwise become available.  We have the TPEs that would allow us to complete a trade for someone a team needs to cut anyway to reduce their roster.

[Roy H.]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

[Vermont Green]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

Myles Turner is one of those names that just keeps coming up.  My understanding is that he missed a chunk of last season due to a stress fracture in his foot.  Turner is only 26 but has 7 seasons in the NBA.  I guess that is the norm these days when players are drafted at age 19.  He has been remarkably consistent over those 7 seasons, 13'ish points, 7'ish rebounds but the flip side of that is how little improvement or progression there has been.  He really has been pretty much the same player, very little development or improvement.

I don't know about a White for Turner trade but I agree that I would not give up Smart for Turner (unless we got back picks or other value).  It seems that if White for Turner was in the cards, they could have done it as part of the Brogdon trade.  It is a reasonable trade in terms of value.  Turner is in the last year of his contract so an "expiring".  Not sure he would want to be the long term back up behind RWill.

Also, FWIW, Turner makes just over our Fournier TPE so no chance to use that.

[footey]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

White and Pritchard more realistic. But not sure Turner and Rob fit together like Al and Rob (Turner didn’t fit with Sabonis). Basically you’d get Turner as Rob insurance and as back up 5/successor to Al?

Edit: Did not realize Turner was expiring in which case White alone more than fair.

[celticsclay]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

White and Pritchard more realistic. But not sure Turner and Rob fit together like Al and Rob (Turner didn’t fit with Sabonis). Basically you’d get Turner as Rob insurance and as back up 5/successor to Al?

Edit: Did not realize Turner was expiring in which case White alone more than fair.

I would take Turner for White, but what is the appeal of this for Indiana?

[stes]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

Myles Turner is one of those names that just keeps coming up.  My understanding is that he missed a chunk of last season due to a stress fracture in his foot.  Turner is only 26 but has 7 seasons in the NBA.  I guess that is the norm these days when players are drafted at age 19.  He has been remarkably consistent over those 7 seasons, 13'ish points, 7'ish rebounds but the flip side of that is how little improvement or progression there has been.  He really has been pretty much the same player, very little development or improvement.

I don't know about a White for Turner trade but I agree that I would not give up Smart for Turner (unless we got back picks or other value).  It seems that if White for Turner was in the cards, they could have done it as part of the Brogdon trade.  It is a reasonable trade in terms of value.  Turner is in the last year of his contract so an "expiring".  Not sure he would want to be the long term back up behind RWill.

Also, FWIW, Turner makes just over our Fournier TPE so no chance to use that.

I think you could absorb a player into a TPE and immediately trade him for Turner as long as the salaries match 1 to 1. Like M. Beasley from Utah for TPE and then Beasley for Turner. Though both Jazz and Pacers would have to be additionally compensated and those complicated deals tend to be unrealistic.

[Celtics2021]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

That’d still be a real downgrade.  White is much more useful than Turner.  White fits in a lot of lineups due to his ballhandling and defensive versatility.  Turner fits into far fewer lineups.  We’re looking for a replacement for Theis.  In the 17 games prior to Rob’s injury, Theis averaged 13 minutes a night, but also racked up 5 DNPs.  I understand the concern about injury to Rob, but in the modern NBA there just aren’t enough minutes available to play Turner, especially with functional PFs on the roster like Grant and Gallo.

[sgrogan]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

That’d still be a real downgrade.  White is much more useful than Turner.  White fits in a lot of lineups due to his ballhandling and defensive versatility.  Turner fits into far fewer lineups.  We’re looking for a replacement for Theis.  In the 17 games prior to Rob’s injury, Theis averaged 13 minutes a night, but also racked up 5 DNPs.  I understand the concern about injury to Rob, but in the modern NBA there just aren’t enough minutes available to play Turner, especially with functional PFs on the roster like Grant and Gallo.

+1
In addition we also need injury protection at guard.
Brogdon's history is well known, Smart has played less than 62 games in 4 of his 8 seasons, Jaylen has incentives for 65 games played.

We need an 800ish minute center, that will play 14-20 minutes a night in half the games, spot minutes in another 20, and 20 DNP's

[celticsclay]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

That’d still be a real downgrade.  White is much more useful than Turner.  White fits in a lot of lineups due to his ballhandling and defensive versatility.  Turner fits into far fewer lineups.  We’re looking for a replacement for Theis.  In the 17 games prior to Rob’s injury, Theis averaged 13 minutes a night, but also racked up 5 DNPs.  I understand the concern about injury to Rob, but in the modern NBA there just aren’t enough minutes available to play Turner, especially with functional PFs on the roster like Grant and Gallo.

+1
In addition we also need injury protection at guard.
Brogdon's history is well known, Smart has played less than 62 games in 4 of his 8 seasons, Jaylen has incentives for 65 games played.

We need an 800ish minute center, that will play 14-20 minutes a night in half the games, spot minutes in another 20, and 20 DNP's

How much of a dropoff are people expecting from Horford?

[sgrogan]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

That’d still be a real downgrade.  White is much more useful than Turner.  White fits in a lot of lineups due to his ballhandling and defensive versatility.  Turner fits into far fewer lineups.  We’re looking for a replacement for Theis.  In the 17 games prior to Rob’s injury, Theis averaged 13 minutes a night, but also racked up 5 DNPs.  I understand the concern about injury to Rob, but in the modern NBA there just aren’t enough minutes available to play Turner, especially with functional PFs on the roster like Grant and Gallo.

+1
In addition we also need injury protection at guard.
Brogdon's history is well known, Smart has played less than 62 games in 4 of his 8 seasons, Jaylen has incentives for 65 games played.

We need an 800ish minute center, that will play 14-20 minutes a night in half the games, spot minutes in another 20, and 20 DNP's

How much of a dropoff are people expecting from Horford?

I don't expect a big dropoff when he's on the court, but I think we will have to load manage.
He played 29 mpg in 69 games, then 30+ in a deep playoff run. This was after being shut down the previous season by OKC.
I would target something like 65 games and 26 mpg. I'd try to avoid playing him in back to backs.

[Celtics2021]

Note, Myles Turner back on the block (again).

With Brogdon here, along with White, and PP, would you send Smart to Indy for Turner?  BTW, if I were Brad and wanted to, I'd clear it with JT first!

Nope.

Maybe White.

That’d still be a real downgrade.  White is much more useful than Turner.  White fits in a lot of lineups due to his ballhandling and defensive versatility.  Turner fits into far fewer lineups.  We’re looking for a replacement for Theis.  In the 17 games prior to Rob’s injury, Theis averaged 13 minutes a night, but also racked up 5 DNPs.  I understand the concern about injury to Rob, but in the modern NBA there just aren’t enough minutes available to play Turner, especially with functional PFs on the roster like Grant and Gallo.

+1
In addition we also need injury protection at guard.
Brogdon's history is well known, Smart has played less than 62 games in 4 of his 8 seasons, Jaylen has incentives for 65 games played.

We need an 800ish minute center, that will play 14-20 minutes a night in half the games, spot minutes in another 20, and 20 DNP's

How much of a dropoff are people expecting from Horford?

I’m sure there will be some, but he’s unlikely to fall off a cliff, and we have two viable options at the 4 to help cushion this.

[Who]

Cousins was all star level in 2017-18 for NOP, starting 48 games, averaging 25 pts / 13 rebs and with 5 assists.  Since then, he has played for 5 different teams and been more in the 10 pts, 6 rebs range.  He missed the 2019-20 season completely.  So it is really 5 teams in 3 seasons that he played.

Cousins is an intriguing player for sure.  But GSW, HOU, LAC, MIL, and DEN have all moved on from him after 30 games or less.  Most of these teams are contenting teams, especially the most recent (LAC, MIL, DEN), that could have used a solid back up big.

I don't know where Cousins' head is at.  I doubt anyone does and that is the problem or the risk.  A focused Cousins off the bench, even the diminished version of him, could be a good thing but it is really hard know what you are going to get, or for how long.

I suspect the Celtics want someone more reliable or more predictable for their insurance big, even if that means less potential ceiling.  The Celtics may still grab him.  It does not appear he is coming off the board anytime soon.  But it seems they are seeing who else may get released or otherwise become available.  We have the TPEs that would allow us to complete a trade for someone a team needs to cut anyway to reduce their roster.

I don't think it has anything to do with Cousins' attitude. All his teams and coaches have seem pleased with his attitude and publicly anyway he has comported himself well despite low minutes to non-playing time.

I see it as skill-related.

Fans tend to like deep bench players who are capable of big games once in awhile like the Jabari Parker idea but most coaches prefer deep bench players who won't hurt their teams.

Most coaches prefer low mistake consistent low impact guys over high mistake inconsistent guys who can be a game winner once in awhile.

Cousins can't play defense anymore. He is a mistake waiting to happen every time he steps out on the floor. He is highly skilled and still effective offensively but his defense is a vulnerability waiting to be exposed. Coaches are wary of this type of bench player.

They would rather have a low skilled offensive guy who plays solid defense & rarely makes mistakes on offense. Think of a spot up shooter versus a shot-creator with inconsistent shooting numbers. How often do you see title teams prefer the spot up solid and steady bench guy over the inconsistent shot-creator in deep bench roles?

Coaches want guys they can trust. Not guys who can't play defense and could single-handedly wreck their entire team defense. That is Cousins.

Give a coach a big guy who can do nothing except dunk but will solid defense & rebound and the vast majority will be happier for it. Dependability & trust matter. Low mistake bench play matters.

High mistake bench play can be a killer blow to a team.

[tonydelk]

I think that this situation is fluid and will go down to the July 18th wire.  The C's can evaluate the centers on their summer league squad.  They know which FA's are left that can be signed at any time.  If someone show's out at Summer League that they feel can jump in for a few minutes a game that's the preferred route.  If no one shows they are worthy and obviously they are not enamored with what's left on the FA market or the one they want won't accept a min deal they will then use the TPE.  It's tough to trade for someone at 10m and it actually costing 3 times that for a player who may get spot starts or 5-10 minutes a game.  They are better going small and starting 1 big with JT at the PF position.

[sgrogan]

Cousins was all star level in 2017-18 for NOP, starting 48 games, averaging 25 pts / 13 rebs and with 5 assists.  Since then, he has played for 5 different teams and been more in the 10 pts, 6 rebs range.  He missed the 2019-20 season completely.  So it is really 5 teams in 3 seasons that he played.

Cousins is an intriguing player for sure.  But GSW, HOU, LAC, MIL, and DEN have all moved on from him after 30 games or less.  Most of these teams are contenting teams, especially the most recent (LAC, MIL, DEN), that could have used a solid back up big.

I don't know where Cousins' head is at.  I doubt anyone does and that is the problem or the risk.  A focused Cousins off the bench, even the diminished version of him, could be a good thing but it is really hard know what you are going to get, or for how long.

I suspect the Celtics want someone more reliable or more predictable for their insurance big, even if that means less potential ceiling.  The Celtics may still grab him.  It does not appear he is coming off the board anytime soon.  But it seems they are seeing who else may get released or otherwise become available.  We have the TPEs that would allow us to complete a trade for someone a team needs to cut anyway to reduce their roster.

I don't think it has anything to do with Cousins' attitude. All his teams and coaches have seem pleased with his attitude and publicly anyway he has comported himself well despite low minutes to non-playing time.

I see it as skill-related.

Fans tend to like deep bench players who are capable of big games once in awhile like the Jabari Parker idea but most coaches prefer deep bench players who won't hurt their teams.

Most coaches prefer low mistake consistent low impact guys over high mistake inconsistent guys who can be a game winner once in awhile.

Cousins can't play defense anymore. He is a mistake waiting to happen every time he steps out on the floor. He is highly skilled and still effective offensively but his defense is a vulnerability waiting to be exposed. Coaches are wary of this type of bench player.

They would rather have a low skilled offensive guy who plays solid defense & rarely makes mistakes on offense. Think of a spot up shooter versus a shot-creator with inconsistent shooting numbers. How often do you see title teams prefer the spot up solid and steady bench guy over the inconsistent shot-creator in deep bench roles?

Coaches want guys they can trust. Not guys who can't play defense and could single-handedly wreck their entire team defense. That is Cousins.

Give a coach a big guy who can do nothing except dunk but will solid defense & rebound and the vast majority will be happier for it. Dependability & trust matter. Low mistake bench play matters.

High mistake bench play can be a killer blow to a team.

I think this is especially true for the celts.
If Rob is out you want defense and rebounding.
If Al is out you want defense and rebounding, Gallanari/Grant may need to pick up the scoring.
If Gallinari/Grant is out, play defense and rebound, Al picks up the scoring from the PF position.

Also, you don't want your injury insurance to have an injury history.

I'm starting to warm to Dwight.