Author Topic: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts  (Read 2019 times)

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Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« on: October 23, 2018, 01:29:31 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Not going to win many games like that. We're lucky we have won as many as we have


Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 06:06:12 AM »

Offline Who

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Kyrie 2 of 4 games with 0 FTs. Strange to see given how good he is at getting to the basket.

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 06:14:45 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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They're settling for too many jumpers.  They need to take to the rim and run more pick and rolls.  A little post play would be nice too.  I'm not sure if they're playing lazily or haven't figured out how to play together yet, but Stevens has some serious coaching to do.

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 06:41:33 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Kyrie 2 of 4 games with 0 FTs. Strange to see given how good he is at getting to the basket.
In my opinion, he hasn't been getting any calls.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 06:53:49 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I don't like a lot of the rules changes this year and a lot of the calls have been bad for all the teams.   Those calls on the picks on Hayward and Theis were especially bad.

We all know the refs hate us.   Kyrie is having to adjust to getting every call as a Cav to being on your own as a Celtic.   But the refs have been universally bad for all teams.

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 07:28:37 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I'm getting the vibe that the starters are extremely focused on playing within the system, almost to the detriment of their instincts and aggressiveness.  It feels like Morris has been more aggressive off the bench than most of the starters.  There's definitely going to be growing pains when you have a group of 5 players who are capable of scoring in multiple ways. 

This is part of the reason that Toronto looks much sharper than the Celtics to start the season.  Kawhi and Lowry have the freedom to run the offense, while the rest of the guys focus on hitting open shots, crashing the boards, and cutting to the hoop.  Role players thrive off of simplicity when surrounded by a couple of All-Star caliber players.   

The poor shooting is another reason we aren't getting to the line.  Last night Orlando was perfectly content packing the paint and rotating on drives with their athletic big men.  It felt like they were coached to allow the open threes unless the Celtics finally made them pay.  I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that the Celtics missed 12 wide open shots from beyond the arc.  If even 3 of those go in we are looking at a completely different game.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 07:36:03 AM by Green-18 »

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 07:34:41 AM »

Offline Androslav

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 07:44:16 AM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 07:46:21 AM »

Offline gouki88

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 07:49:13 AM »

Offline Green-18

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.

I don't believe that this has anything to do with a lack of ability to get to the rim.  I think my post above has a lot to do with the early struggles on offense.  Kyrie and Hayward are getting to the line significantly less than their career averages.  Tatum also proved to be more than capable of drawing fouls in the playoffs last year.

Imagine if Tatum, Kyrie, and Gordon were running the ISO heavy offense that the Rockets used last season.  Harden and Paul have the luxury to go into full attack mode while the other 4 guys stand beyond the arc.  It's boring but very effective in the modern NBA, especially against weaker competition.

I'm certainly not advocating for the Celtics to adopt this system.  ISO ball fatigues star players and has limited upside compared to the motion offense that a team like Golden State runs.  The free throw stat also doesn't seem to correlate to winning games.  Only half of the top 10 leaders in team free throws made the playoffs last year.




Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 08:00:28 AM »

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best

Kyrie historically hasn’t drawn a lot of contact, even when he drives.  Hayward has tended to play a bit more to contact (6 FTAs per game his last three healthy seasons).


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Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 08:00:54 AM »

Offline gouki88

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.

I don't believe that this has anything to do with a lack of ability to get to the rim.  I think my post above has a lot to do with the early struggles on offense.  Kyrie and Hayward are getting to the line significantly less than their career averages.  Tatum also proved to be more than capable of drawing fouls in the playoffs last year.

Imagine if Tatum, Kyrie, and Gordon were running the ISO heavy offense that the Rockets used last season.  Harden and Paul have the luxury to go into full attack mode while the other 4 guys stand beyond the arc.  It's boring but very effective in the modern NBA, especially against weaker competition.

I'm certainly not advocating for the Celtics to adopt this system.  ISO ball fatigues star players and has limited upside compared to the motion offense that a team like Golden State runs.  The free throw stat also doesn't seem to correlate to winning games.  Only half of the top 10 leaders in team free throws made the playoffs last year.
Agree completely with your assessment, TP. Particularly about playing perhaps too within the system
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2018, 08:04:07 AM »

Offline gouki88

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best

Kyrie historically hasn’t drawn a lot of contact, even when he drives.  Hayward has tended to play a bit more to contact (6 FTAs per game his last three healthy seasons).
Yeah, that's why I focused more on the Tony Parker element of the post. Parker never averaged more than 5 FTAs per game, and averaged around 4.5 for his prime. Kyrie hovers around 4.4 for his career, but is around 13% better from the stripe, so I thought they were comparable penetrators
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2018, 08:46:15 AM »

Offline Androslav

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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.

Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.

Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best

Kyrie historically hasn’t drawn a lot of contact, even when he drives.  Hayward has tended to play a bit more to contact (6 FTAs per game his last three healthy seasons).
Yeah, that's why I focused more on the Tony Parker element of the post. Parker never averaged more than 5 FTAs per game and averaged around 4.5 for his prime. Kyrie hovers around 4.4 for his career but is around 13% better from the stripe, so I thought they were comparable penetrators
Kyrie can drive, we know that he just isn't a tireless, relentless driver.
That a different category.
Regarding Haywards and his 6 FTs per game before the injury, right now I can't ask from to attack the rim with that determination. The injury was severe. If he manages to get back - great.
As for Tony Parker, he might not have averaged a huge amount of FTA, but he led the league in "paint" FGs for a few years with great efficiency. He was literally unstoppable penetrating the defense for years and years. Kyrie never sniffed these results. Few perimeter players ever did.

We need penetrators to make some use of this additional space.
Right now we don't have them.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2018, 09:13:45 AM »

Offline makaveli

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Yup, last night i began to notice that. I was like, something is missing, there has to be a way to score some easy points, and realized that our FT game is wayyyy off.

what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Celtics ranked 30 (last) in FT attempts
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2018, 09:22:55 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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No problems at all right now. Let people get their shots up from mid/outside.

Some are totally failing to notice what Jaylen is working on in games. Once he explores that a bit, he'll be back to himself.
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