NBA Season 2022-23

[bdm860]

What's the most 2nd rounders traded away in trade?  I don't recall ever seeing more than two in a deal (at least a simple deal, maybe in a 3-4 team swap or a deal with protections).  I'm probably missing some obvious ones though.

[Who]

Kendrick Nunn is mediocre. He is a journeyman guard. Not enough of a true PG to play there. Not big enough or good enough shooter to play SG. A combo guard with below average skills. He is too inconsistent to be considered even an average backup guard.

He is a hole plugger. When desperate, you pick him up. A short term fix but never a long term solution because his game is too limited. Jettisonned soon after once a better option shows itself.

So more or less value than say Pritchard?

Nunn was a regular starter on some decent Miami teams.  His production is way down this year in LA as compared to his time in Miami.  Not sure why.  The Lakers have a knack for messing up players.

Pritchard is younger of course, and on a better contract.  Nunn may come back to life on WAS.  He will be playing for his next contract.  We'll see with Rui Hachimura.  He will probably help the Lakers some, but I see him as a fringe playoff rotation level player.

It is a decent deal for the Lakers, I agree.  I single though, not an extra base hit or a home run.  And those 3 lost seconds will make it that much harder for them to do other deals they will need to do down the line.

I'd rate Pritchard above Nunn but not by much. Pritchard's high quality outside shooting gives him the nod over Nunn in my eyes.

I'd value Pritchard as a late first or two early 2nds (30-45). I value Pritchard as a possible late first because I would happy to get a player as good as Pritchard with a pick in the 25-30 range. I don't think teams will give up picks in the 20-25 range. A real late, late first rounder (25-30 range).

I wouldn't give up a first rounder for Nunn. I would say 1 early 2nd rounder (30-40) would do it or two mid-to-late 2nd round picks (40-60 range).

I value Pritchard as solid backup PG (middle of the pack to a bit below average). We just have a loaded backcourt here with Smart, Brogdon and D White. Not much opportunity for him. I expect Prichard to establish himself as a reliable bench guard for the next 7-10 years in the league. A long career.

[Who]

Nunn did well to get that opportunity in Miami. Right place, right moment.

His solid play there was helped greatly by playing next to Jimmy Butler (a playmaking wing) and Bam Adebayo (a high post facilitator). Two players who the offense ran through rather than through their PG.

Nunn is not capable of running an offense. He can only operate next to other players who can take those duties off his hands. He is a solid defender and provides some scoring but his lack of outside shooting makes him a dodgy fit as an off-ball player next to those playmaking wings (like LeBron). That is why he will only ever be a short term fit next to them before they move him on.

Nunn also benefited from having a lot of shooters around him in Duncan Robinson, Tyler Herro, Goran Dragic, Kelly Olynyk, Meyers Leonard, Jae Crowder. They helped compensate / hide Nunn's dodgy outside shot.

Nunn would not have started on pretty much every other team in the league while starting in Miami. It was a near perfect storm for him (great coaching, playmaking wing, playmaking big, lots of shooters). It will be very difficult for him to replicate that elsewhere; to get a comparable situation elsewhere. That is why I believe it will be the high-point of his career unless he manages to improve that outside shooting.

I believe Nunn is closer to fighting for his NBA future than he is to being a reliable bench guard. You could say something similar with Pritchard but I do believe his outside shooting will give him the upper hand and be more likely to achieve a long term bench role in the NBA.

[Vermont Green]

Kendrick Nunn is mediocre. He is a journeyman guard. Not enough of a true PG to play there. Not big enough or good enough shooter to play SG. A combo guard with below average skills. He is too inconsistent to be considered even an average backup guard.

He is a hole plugger. When desperate, you pick him up. A short term fix but never a long term solution because his game is too limited. Jettisonned soon after once a better option shows itself.

So more or less value than say Pritchard?

Nunn was a regular starter on some decent Miami teams.  His production is way down this year in LA as compared to his time in Miami.  Not sure why.  The Lakers have a knack for messing up players.

Pritchard is younger of course, and on a better contract.  Nunn may come back to life on WAS.  He will be playing for his next contract.  We'll see with Rui Hachimura.  He will probably help the Lakers some, but I see him as a fringe playoff rotation level player.

It is a decent deal for the Lakers, I agree.  I single though, not an extra base hit or a home run.  And those 3 lost seconds will make it that much harder for them to do other deals they will need to do down the line.

I'd rate Pritchard above Nunn but not by much. Pritchard's high quality outside shooting gives him the nod over Nunn in my eyes.

I'd value Pritchard as a late first or two early 2nds (30-45). I value Pritchard as a possible late first because I would happy to get a player as good as Pritchard with a pick in the 25-30 range. I don't think teams will give up picks in the 20-25 range. A real late, late first rounder (25-30 range).

I wouldn't give up a first rounder for Nunn. I would say 1 early 2nd rounder (30-40) would do it or two mid-to-late 2nd round picks (40-60 range).

I value Pritchard as solid backup PG (middle of the pack to a bit below average). We just have a loaded backcourt here with Smart, Brogdon and D White. Not much opportunity for him. I expect Prichard to establish himself as a reliable bench guard for the next 7-10 years in the league. A long career.

I guess that is my point, about the same, depending on team need.  I would think that Washington would prefer Pritchard to Nunn as he is younger and a better contract.  That means we could have had Rui Hachimura for Pritchard and 3 seconds.  It would be a very comparable deal.

We'll see how Hachimura does in LA.  I am guessing OK but not great, no big impact.  Kind of a OK bench player.  But LA is desperate for bigs.  So he will get his chance.

[Celtics2021]

Yeah, "multiple" I guess ended up being 3 seconds:

ake Fischer: As of Friday, the Lakers offered Kendrick Nunn and two second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura, sources said. Wizards were holding out for first-round value for their former lottery selection. A third second-rounder gets it done on Monday. – via Twitter JakeLFischer

I am mixed on this.  He might have helped us.  An equivalent trade would have been Pritchard and 3 seconds.  Seems like too much.

I think we’re all in on Poetl instead. I think if Stevens wanted Hachimura we’d have him, but he doesn’t fill a top need for us.

Not at the price of three seconds, for sure.  I don’t think it at all means that we’re all-in on Poeltl tho.

The price of three seconds? What are the chances one of those picks turns out to be a player as good as Hachimura. 5%?  They are a complete shot in the dark, especially for the C’s.

The chance that one of them turns into an NBA reserve after 4 seasons of experience?  Far higher than 5%, especially given that one of those picks (if from the Celtics) has a solid chance of being in the 30s.

[Goldstar88]

Yeah, "multiple" I guess ended up being 3 seconds:

ake Fischer: As of Friday, the Lakers offered Kendrick Nunn and two second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura, sources said. Wizards were holding out for first-round value for their former lottery selection. A third second-rounder gets it done on Monday. – via Twitter JakeLFischer

I am mixed on this.  He might have helped us.  An equivalent trade would have been Pritchard and 3 seconds.  Seems like too much.

I think we’re all in on Poetl instead. I think if Stevens wanted Hachimura we’d have him, but he doesn’t fill a top need for us.

Not at the price of three seconds, for sure.  I don’t think it at all means that we’re all-in on Poeltl tho.

The price of three seconds? What are the chances one of those picks turns out to be a player as good as Hachimura. 5%?  They are a complete shot in the dark, especially for the C’s.

The chance that one of them turns into an NBA reserve after 4 seasons of experience?  Far higher than 5%, especially given that one of those picks (if from the Celtics) has a solid chance of being in the 30s.

The odds are extremely low. Rui’s career numbers are 13ppg, 5rpg, while shooting 48% from the field and 36% from 3pt. These are the Celtics 2nd round draft picks over the last 5 years. Enough said.

Davison
Begarin
Madar
Waters
Ojeleye
K.Allen
J. bird.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, "multiple" I guess ended up being 3 seconds:

ake Fischer: As of Friday, the Lakers offered Kendrick Nunn and two second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura, sources said. Wizards were holding out for first-round value for their former lottery selection. A third second-rounder gets it done on Monday. – via Twitter JakeLFischer

I am mixed on this.  He might have helped us.  An equivalent trade would have been Pritchard and 3 seconds.  Seems like too much.

I think we’re all in on Poetl instead. I think if Stevens wanted Hachimura we’d have him, but he doesn’t fill a top need for us.

Not at the price of three seconds, for sure.  I don’t think it at all means that we’re all-in on Poeltl tho.

The price of three seconds? What are the chances one of those picks turns out to be a player as good as Hachimura. 5%?  They are a complete shot in the dark, especially for the C’s.

The chance that one of them turns into an NBA reserve after 4 seasons of experience?  Far higher than 5%, especially given that one of those picks (if from the Celtics) has a solid chance of being in the 30s.

The odds are extremely low. Rui’s career numbers are 13ppg, 5rpg, while shooting 48% from the field and 36% from 3pt. These are the Celtics 2nd round draft picks over the last 5 years. Enough said.

Davison
Begarin
Madar
Waters
Ojeleye
K.Allen
J. bird.

Yeah, our second rounders have generally sucked over the past decade or so.  Before that, Danny found a few contributors:  BBD, Powe, Gomes, and E'twaun Moore (although most of his success was with other teams).  Semi Ojeleye was passable. 

But, a collective 5% from three second rounders sounds low, if you're talking about the league in general.  I've got nothing to base that on, though.

[Roy H.]

Rival teams in need of size are monitoring Kings center Richaun Holmes as a potential buyout candidate in the event that Sacramento is unable to trade him before the deadline, sources say. – via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

Why would Sacramento buy out Holmes?  He's only getting around 10 mpg, but isn't having a veteran on the team better than having nobody?

[Celtics2021]

Rival teams in need of size are monitoring Kings center Richaun Holmes as a potential buyout candidate in the event that Sacramento is unable to trade him before the deadline, sources say. – via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

Why would Sacramento buy out Holmes?  He's only getting around 10 mpg, but isn't having a veteran on the team better than having nobody?

He is unhappy with his lack of playing time and both sides would like a divorce.

[td450]

Yeah, "multiple" I guess ended up being 3 seconds:

ake Fischer: As of Friday, the Lakers offered Kendrick Nunn and two second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura, sources said. Wizards were holding out for first-round value for their former lottery selection. A third second-rounder gets it done on Monday. – via Twitter JakeLFischer

I am mixed on this.  He might have helped us.  An equivalent trade would have been Pritchard and 3 seconds.  Seems like too much.

I think we’re all in on Poetl instead. I think if Stevens wanted Hachimura we’d have him, but he doesn’t fill a top need for us.

Not at the price of three seconds, for sure.  I don’t think it at all means that we’re all-in on Poeltl tho.

The price of three seconds? What are the chances one of those picks turns out to be a player as good as Hachimura. 5%?  They are a complete shot in the dark, especially for the C’s.

The chance that one of them turns into an NBA reserve after 4 seasons of experience?  Far higher than 5%, especially given that one of those picks (if from the Celtics) has a solid chance of being in the 30s.

The odds are extremely low. Rui’s career numbers are 13ppg, 5rpg, while shooting 48% from the field and 36% from 3pt. These are the Celtics 2nd round draft picks over the last 5 years. Enough said.

Davison
Begarin
Madar
Waters
Ojeleye
K.Allen
J. bird.

Hachimura is a solid NBA player with an upside. But he's a bad fit for here. He's primarily a fairly talented scorer. He's a slightly below average defender, and doesn't really have the ability to switch up or down much.

The C's need to be disciplined. We have a very balanced roster that works, and it should only get better over time. A lot of good useful players will become available over the next year or two, but we have only one major soft spot, and that is to get a starter quality big who provides plus defense in our system. It is easy to get excited about other guys, but anything that diminishes our ability to go for it when that big becomes available is a mistake.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, "multiple" I guess ended up being 3 seconds:

ake Fischer: As of Friday, the Lakers offered Kendrick Nunn and two second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura, sources said. Wizards were holding out for first-round value for their former lottery selection. A third second-rounder gets it done on Monday. – via Twitter JakeLFischer

I am mixed on this.  He might have helped us.  An equivalent trade would have been Pritchard and 3 seconds.  Seems like too much.

I think we’re all in on Poetl instead. I think if Stevens wanted Hachimura we’d have him, but he doesn’t fill a top need for us.

Not at the price of three seconds, for sure.  I don’t think it at all means that we’re all-in on Poeltl tho.

The price of three seconds? What are the chances one of those picks turns out to be a player as good as Hachimura. 5%?  They are a complete shot in the dark, especially for the C’s.

The chance that one of them turns into an NBA reserve after 4 seasons of experience?  Far higher than 5%, especially given that one of those picks (if from the Celtics) has a solid chance of being in the 30s.

The odds are extremely low. Rui’s career numbers are 13ppg, 5rpg, while shooting 48% from the field and 36% from 3pt. These are the Celtics 2nd round draft picks over the last 5 years. Enough said.

Davison
Begarin
Madar
Waters
Ojeleye
K.Allen
J. bird.

Hachimura is a solid NBA player with an upside. But he's a bad fit for here. He's primarily a fairly talented scorer. He's a slightly below average defender, and doesn't really have the ability to switch up or down much.

The C's need to be disciplined. We have a very balanced roster that works, and it should only get better over time. A lot of good useful players will become available over the next year or two, but we have only one major soft spot, and that is to get a starter quality big who provides plus defense in our system. It is easy to get excited about other guys, but anything that diminishes our ability to go for it when that big becomes available is a mistake.

At the same time, isn't it important to have matching salary for that big?  If the plan is to try to acquire somebody in trade, you need the "chunk" salaries to make that work.  If the team doesn't want to move any of its top-8, then that's going to be very hard to do.

Hachimura might not be the right player to use as future salary filler.  But, using the various TPEs would be (or would have been) helpful for completing a trade this coming summer.  For instance, adding Rudy Gay would give us the ability to put together matching salaries for a guy like John Collins this summer (Gay + Gallinari + Kornet + Pritchard + minimum salary buyout signed this year).

[Moranis]

Rival teams in need of size are monitoring Kings center Richaun Holmes as a potential buyout candidate in the event that Sacramento is unable to trade him before the deadline, sources say. – via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

Why would Sacramento buy out Holmes?  He's only getting around 10 mpg, but isn't having a veteran on the team better than having nobody?

He is unhappy with his lack of playing time and both sides would like a divorce.

Doesn't he have 3 years left.

If they are basically looking to dump him, I'd probably do Gallinari, Jackson, and Kornet for him and I'd probably bring back Delly for some depth (though he isn't necessary to acquire).  I'd trust Holmes more than Kornet in a big spot in the playoffs and if it doesn't work out long term, Holmes provides some nice salary to use in a trade this summer. 

so Holmes, Dellavedova for Gallinari, Jackson, Kornet

[Celtics2021]

Rival teams in need of size are monitoring Kings center Richaun Holmes as a potential buyout candidate in the event that Sacramento is unable to trade him before the deadline, sources say. – via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

Why would Sacramento buy out Holmes?  He's only getting around 10 mpg, but isn't having a veteran on the team better than having nobody?

He is unhappy with his lack of playing time and both sides would like a divorce.

Doesn't he have 3 years left.

If they are basically looking to dump him, I'd probably do Gallinari, Jackson, and Kornet for him and I'd probably bring back Delly for some depth (though he isn't necessary to acquire).  I'd trust Holmes more than Kornet in a big spot in the playoffs and if it doesn't work out long term, Holmes provides some nice salary to use in a trade this summer. 

so Holmes, Dellavedova for Gallinari, Jackson, Kornet

The unhappiness is a two-way street.  He’s upset he’s not a starter.  He wouldn’t be a starter here.  Unlike Crowder he’s showing up to work, but the situation is similar.

[Roy H.]

Rival teams in need of size are monitoring Kings center Richaun Holmes as a potential buyout candidate in the event that Sacramento is unable to trade him before the deadline, sources say. – via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com

Why would Sacramento buy out Holmes?  He's only getting around 10 mpg, but isn't having a veteran on the team better than having nobody?

He is unhappy with his lack of playing time and both sides would like a divorce.

Doesn't he have 3 years left.

If they are basically looking to dump him, I'd probably do Gallinari, Jackson, and Kornet for him and I'd probably bring back Delly for some depth (though he isn't necessary to acquire).  I'd trust Holmes more than Kornet in a big spot in the playoffs and if it doesn't work out long term, Holmes provides some nice salary to use in a trade this summer. 

so Holmes, Dellavedova for Gallinari, Jackson, Kornet

The unhappiness is a two-way street.  He’s upset he’s not a starter.  He wouldn’t be a starter here.  Unlike Crowder he’s showing up to work, but the situation is similar.

I'm sure he's unhappy, and I'm sure Sacramento has some interest in accommodating a trade request if there's a willing partner.

But, like Mo said, why buy out somebody with another guaranteed year plus a player option? 

My guess is that Stein is passing on some pretty bad information here.

[Vermont Green]

The unhappiness is a two-way street.  He’s upset he’s not a starter.  He wouldn’t be a starter here.  Unlike Crowder he’s showing up to work, but the situation is similar.

Crowder may get bought out.  No way Holmes gets bought out with 2.5 years left.  I don't want to trade for either but would be interesting in signing either as a vet min thing.