Author Topic: CAVSMAGEDDON!!  (Read 51169 times)

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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2018, 09:45:16 AM »

Offline cman88

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2018, 09:48:33 AM »

Online celticinorlando

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I expect 30 or 40 from Lebron today. Might not be enough to win because usually Kevin love is the guy that kill Boston...but I expect James to shoot in volume

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2018, 10:27:33 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2018, 10:40:41 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.


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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2018, 05:51:04 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Guessing everyone celebrating "cavsmagedon" or calling it a lateral move are probably going to take it back. Cavs traded slow ball chuckers for 2 way hustle players and 3 pt sharp shooters.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2018, 05:56:03 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Cavs traded slow ball chuckers for 2 way hustle players and 3 pt sharp shooters.

Yep.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2018, 05:58:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2018, 06:14:31 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Somebody create a "CELTSMAGEDDON" thread.

121 points allowed in the NBA this season is the most ever for a top-level defense.

And I felt really bad that Paul Pierce had to watch that embarrassing show from the Celtics today.


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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2018, 06:56:41 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Worst case scenario, Cavs gel like they did today and Lebron is back in finals again. After season, he realizes, his best chance to win more titles is to stay right where he is. Oh, they have a chance at the first pick in the draft this year as well. Imagine them adding one of the elite prospects coming out.

There GM clearly got rid of what was viewed as dead weight and cancer and replaced it with some players who can hit open shots and pick the pace up a bit.

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #99 on: February 11, 2018, 07:48:40 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

He scored more as in 11.0 more points per game.  That's a huge amount, especially when maintaining efficiency.  For perspective, that's about the same scoring differential as there is between Lebron and Andre Drummond this year.

Win Shares, BPM, VORP, PER...  all of them have IT having a better season by a wide margin. 

Kevin Love isn't any more of a complete player than IT was last season.  Love is a terrible defender, just like IT.  The difference is that IT added much, much more on the offensive end, while creating his own shot and opportunities for his teammates.  That's why IT made All-NBA second team, while Love hasn't made an All-NBA team in four seasons (and won't think year).


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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #100 on: February 11, 2018, 07:57:16 PM »

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The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #101 on: February 11, 2018, 08:04:53 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.   

Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2018, 08:26:05 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

Very True. Let's hope the honeymoon fades as the playoffs begin.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2018, 08:27:24 PM »

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Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

Yeah I 100% agree. Jeff Van Gundy even mentioned it on the broadcast today.

It's easy to be happy and feel good during wins, BUT when any sort of losing happens or adversity strikes, that's when things can get testy.

Remember when everything looked great at The Land during their winning streak? What happened when they started losing more and playing with less effort. Half the team got shipped out.
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Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2018, 08:28:20 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

The guys they added should be more willing to fall in line behind "the king" than IT and the rest of the older players they shipped out.