CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Phantom255x on October 15, 2017, 08:42:46 PM
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I hate to say it, but I've heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis, and it looks like if Boston and Cleveland are two of the many teams in a bidding war for him (either IN-season or next summer), the C's could be at a disadvantage here.
Cleveland could offer something along the lines of 2018 BKN Pick, Kevin Love, Shumpert (salary), Zizic/Osman, and one future 2020-2021 1st rounder (which could be big if Lebron leaves before then, which is likely) FOR Davis and Asik (salary filler). Or if the Pels want Crowder badly, Cavs would do it with Crowder while taking away someone else (not Love though).
That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.
Kevin Love is a walking double-double at a "modest" rate, and I have a feeling that 2018 BKN pick will be a Top-5 pick while LAL pick.. we just have to pray, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't convey to be honest. We could offer Horford in a trade... but Pelicans may prefer a younger K. Love.
And if CLE trades for Davis say, next summer, then oh boy.. that could also entice Lebron to stay past this season, as Davis is legit someone who can close the gap between CLE and GSW.
That's not to say other teams won't be bidding for Davis (teams like Phoenix could be a legit threat too), but it's something to monitor.
We may face Cleveland in an ECF this year, but we could also be facing them for the services of Anthony Davis within the coming year to year-and-a-half. Highly doubt Lebron would leave Cleveland if they acquire Davis, and I'm sure the Cavaliers FO knows this too.
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Davis by lung. Needs to stay with the young core in Boston!
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I would be worried about Golden State too.
Putting an offer together built around Klay Thompson. New Orleans gets a star player to couple with DeMarcus Cousins.
Maybe even go as far as Thompson + Draymond if needed. Go with a big three of Steph, Durant and AD.
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I would be worried about Golden State too.
Putting an offer together built around Klay Thompson. New Orleans gets a star player to couple with DeMarcus Cousins.
Maybe even go as far as Thompson + Draymond if needed. Go with a big three of Steph, Durant and AD.
Oh man, you're right.
But I don't think NOP trades Davis and keeps Cousins tbh (I just don't think they plan to build a core around Cousins, even if Davis leaves).
It may also be an issue of salary as GSW will be paying a big luxury tax even after they make that trade (since it involves matching salaries).
Pelicans may also want a great draft pick or two (which Golden State doesn't have), or so I hope. A Durant-Curry-AD trio would be terrifying.
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"That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.”
Yeah but your trade proposal from the Cavs has them gutting their team just as much as we would have to. So Cavs fans would probably say the same thing, that Boston could outbid us unless we gut our team.
And the whole problem with a trade for AD is that he is too valuable right now to trade. He’s on a great long contract, young, and an absolute star without holes in his game. So the Pelicans aren’t trading him for a regular package a star normally gets, they would need an absolute ton for him. Which is why you haven’t seen a trade for him yet. There isn’t a team in the league that can justify giving up that much for him.
So maybe cool it on the AD trade posts. He isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
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"That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.”
Yeah but your trade proposal from the Cavs has them gutting their team just as much as we would have to. So Cavs fans would probably say the same thing, that Boston could outbid us unless we gut our team.
And the whole problem with a trade for AD is that he is too valuable right now to trade. He’s on a great long contract, young, and an absolute star without holes in his game. So the Pelicans aren’t trading him for a regular package a star normally gets, they would need an absolute ton for him. Which is why you haven’t seen a trade for him yet. There isn’t a team in the league that can justify giving up that much for him.
So maybe cool it on the AD trade posts. He isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
I think next summer is a legit possibility if Pelicans do bad this season.
After this year, he will have 2 years on his deal (since he won't opt-in to this third year playoff option), and Pelicans will have to make decisions. After seeing the Butler/George deals and seeing what IND/CHI got in returns (underwhelming), they may consider it.
Not calling it a guarantee he (Davis) ever gets traded, but there are sure to be rumors and phone calls in the coming 1-2 years lol.
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
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Agree with Bucketgetter that AD is probably untouchable for now. From a rebuilding standpoint, I would think Tatum+Brown would be a bigger draw. Love is getting a little older, and Klay would be a nice return, but they need to push the restart button with youth imo.
With the Celtics increasing success, the value of our players seems to increase as well. Tatum+Brown playing well on a top Eastern conference team should carry more weight than a rookie putting up empty stats on a bottom feeder.
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"That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.”
Yeah but your trade proposal from the Cavs has them gutting their team just as much as we would have to. So Cavs fans would probably say the same thing, that Boston could outbid us unless we gut our team.
And the whole problem with a trade for AD is that he is too valuable right now to trade. He’s on a great long contract, young, and an absolute star without holes in his game. So the Pelicans aren’t trading him for a regular package a star normally gets, they would need an absolute ton for him. Which is why you haven’t seen a trade for him yet. There isn’t a team in the league that can justify giving up that much for him.
So maybe cool it on the AD trade posts. He isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
I think next summer is a legit possibility if Pelicans do bad this season.
After this year, he will have 2 years on his deal (since he won't opt-in to this third year playoff option), and Pelicans will have to make decisions. After seeing the Butler/George deals and seeing what IND/CHI got in returns (underwhelming), they may consider it.
Not calling it a guarantee he (Davis) ever gets traded, but there are sure to be rumors and phone calls in the coming 1-2 years lol.
So if there are going to be rumors and phone calls 1-2 years from now, why can’t you wait until then to make new AD trade threads? Just gets a little tiresome seeing all these different AD trade threads from the same poster when the soonest he will get traded will be year from now. I guess I can just ignore them though and I do like to hear what you have to say, just not about the same topic over and over again.
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We still have more picks than anyone else to offer, including the Lakers/Kings pick we got in the Tatum trade. Add that to Brown, Tatum, Smart, Rozier, Yabusele, etc., we can outbid anyone, IF we want to.
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I hate to say it, but I've heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis, and it looks like if Boston and Cleveland are two of the many teams in a bidding war for him (either IN-season or next summer), the C's could be at a disadvantage here.
Cleveland could offer something along the lines of 2018 BKN Pick, Kevin Love, Shumpert (salary), Zizic/Osman, and one future 2020-2021 1st rounder (which could be big if Lebron leaves before then, which is likely) FOR Davis and Asik (salary filler). Or if the Pels want Crowder badly, Cavs would do it with Crowder while taking away someone else (not Love though).
That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.
Kevin Love is a walking double-double at a "modest" rate, and I have a feeling that 2018 BKN pick will be a Top-5 pick while LAL pick.. we just have to pray, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't convey to be honest. We could offer Horford in a trade... but Pelicans may prefer a younger K. Love.
And if CLE trades for Davis say, next summer, then oh boy.. that could also entice Lebron to stay past this season, as Davis is legit someone who can close the gap between CLE and GSW.
That's not to say other teams won't be bidding for Davis (teams like Phoenix could be a legit threat too), but it's something to monitor.
We may face Cleveland in an ECF this year, but we could also be facing them for the services of Anthony Davis within the coming year to year-and-a-half. Highly doubt Lebron would leave Cleveland if they acquire Davis, and I'm sure the Cavaliers FO knows this too.
That's actually not a very good offer. Okay lets start with the pick, in terms of value its probably about equal to the LAL/SAC pick the Celtics have. So fine, I'll give you that. Kevin Love is not really much of an asset, he has two years left on his deal (so fewer than AD and is 29 years old with an injury history. That's not a piece a rebuilding New Orleans would want. Zizic/Osman haven't proven anything and right now have no more value than a late first which the Celtics have plenty of to throw in a deal. If Anthony Davis has four more years on his deal which means a pick in 20/21 will be from a team with him, still in his prime. In the east that's likely a playoff teams even if everyone else on the team stinks. So your deal is a good pick the cletics can match, a late first round prospect, an aging short contract veteran and a mid to late first? Ummm, no. The Memphis, LAL/SAC, Smart(resigned for salary matching) and ONE of Brown or Tatum blow that away.
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
I see it as a situation where GSW where might need to breakup their four main guys. Everybody is happy now but money (need to take less to keep team together) or desire to be the #1 man on their own team (Klay, Draymond) might break them up at some point.
If GSW sees the writing on the walls 12-24 months down the line, that someone wants to leave -- then trading two of those guys to get a 3rd MVP caliber talent to put alongside Steph and Durant is an attractive proposition.
Hard to keep everybody happy there long term.
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I doubt Davis is getting traded anywhere.
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
I see it as a situation where GSW where might need to breakup their four main guys. Everybody is happy now but money (need to take less to keep team together) or desire to be the #1 man on their own team (Klay, Draymond) might break them up at some point.
If GSW sees the writing on the walls 12-24 months down the line, that someone wants to leave -- then trading two of those guys to get a 3rd MVP caliber talent to put alongside Steph and Durant is an attractive proposition.
Hard to keep everybody happy there long term.
Yeah, i can see that if they lose to an up-start C's team in the Finals this year
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
I see it as a situation where GSW where might need to breakup their four main guys. Everybody is happy now but money (need to take less to keep team together) or desire to be the #1 man on their own team (Klay, Draymond) might break them up at some point.
If GSW sees the writing on the walls 12-24 months down the line, that someone wants to leave -- then trading two of those guys to get a 3rd MVP caliber talent to put alongside Steph and Durant is an attractive proposition.
Hard to keep everybody happy there long term.
If Golden State is forced to break up their core, it will be Klay for solid role players and depth. There’s no way they trade Draymond.
And you talk about Klay and Draymond wanting to be #1 guys, how do you think AD would like being the #3 guy on that team?
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Whenever a pessimist starts a thread with " I hate to say it ..." you know they're really revelling in being the bearer of bad news.
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I hate to say it, but I've heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis, and it looks like if Boston and Cleveland are two of the many teams in a bidding war for him (either IN-season or next summer), the C's could be at a disadvantage here.
Cleveland could offer something along the lines of 2018 BKN Pick, Kevin Love, Shumpert (salary), Zizic/Osman, and one future 2020-2021 1st rounder (which could be big if Lebron leaves before then, which is likely) FOR Davis and Asik (salary filler). Or if the Pels want Crowder badly, Cavs would do it with Crowder while taking away someone else (not Love though).
That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.
Kevin Love is a walking double-double at a "modest" rate, and I have a feeling that 2018 BKN pick will be a Top-5 pick while LAL pick.. we just have to pray, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't convey to be honest. We could offer Horford in a trade... but Pelicans may prefer a younger K. Love.
And if CLE trades for Davis say, next summer, then oh boy.. that could also entice Lebron to stay past this season, as Davis is legit someone who can close the gap between CLE and GSW.
That's not to say other teams won't be bidding for Davis (teams like Phoenix could be a legit threat too), but it's something to monitor.
We may face Cleveland in an ECF this year, but we could also be facing them for the services of Anthony Davis within the coming year to year-and-a-half. Highly doubt Lebron would leave Cleveland if they acquire Davis, and I'm sure the Cavaliers FO knows this too.
I'm sorry but it isn't going to be the Cavs, when a team trades a franchise player they automatically go in rebuild mode and it would have meant that Cousins would be traded away too or just leave in free agency. The Pelicans wouldn't want anyone over 26-7 at the oldest, as they will run into the same problem with the player wanting to be immediately traded. The only team that could rival Celtics for Davis would be Lakers IMO. If the Lakers offered Ingram, Ball, Kouzma, Zubac ect. with the promise that Lebron/George/CP3 has agreed to sign via free agency then they may have a shot, but they lose all their depth so it's highly doubtful.
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“I heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis”
Do you have any links? I’ve not heard of anyone mentioning that Cleveland is targeting Davis, and I keep up pretty well with all nba insiders and beat writers. Would be nice to see what you’re talking about to see whether it’s a real thing or just a talking head speculating randomness on a slow news day
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“I heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis”
Do you have any links? I’ve not heard of anyone mentioning that Cleveland is targeting Davis, and I keep up pretty well with all nba insiders and beat writers. Would be nice to see what you’re talking about to see whether it’s a real thing or just a talking head speculating randomness on a slow news day
http://www.nba.com/article/2017/09/11/morning-tip-mailbag-sept-11-2017
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731523-trade-packages-and-scenarios-for-clevelands-2018-first-round-pick-via-nets
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QDde71VlGKE
Also discussed on the Cowherd show and "First Things First". And ESPN has briefly mentioned trade targets for that Nets Pick on live shows and Davis occasionally pops up (though they acknowledge that RIGHT NOW, he's not available).
Now if you mean the likes of Woj or Aldridge or others, yeah sorry don't have "evidence" from them. But even you've probably heard about at least the possibility that RENTAL Cousins could be a trade candidate to CLE if Lebron says so (lol) and Pelicans AD-Boogie duo fails this year.
Maybe they decide to go bigger though? (Meaning Davis)
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
If I were them, I'd do it. Assuming Klay is planning on walking away anyway...Anthony Davis is IMHO a massive, massive upgrade over Draymond Green.
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I hate to say it, but I've heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis, and it looks like if Boston and Cleveland are two of the many teams in a bidding war for him (either IN-season or next summer), the C's could be at a disadvantage here.
Cleveland could offer something along the lines of 2018 BKN Pick, Kevin Love, Shumpert (salary), Zizic/Osman, and one future 2020-2021 1st rounder (which could be big if Lebron leaves before then, which is likely) FOR Davis and Asik (salary filler). Or if the Pels want Crowder badly, Cavs would do it with Crowder while taking away someone else (not Love though).
That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.
Kevin Love is a walking double-double at a "modest" rate, and I have a feeling that 2018 BKN pick will be a Top-5 pick while LAL pick.. we just have to pray, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't convey to be honest. We could offer Horford in a trade... but Pelicans may prefer a younger K. Love.
And if CLE trades for Davis say, next summer, then oh boy.. that could also entice Lebron to stay past this season, as Davis is legit someone who can close the gap between CLE and GSW.
That's not to say other teams won't be bidding for Davis (teams like Phoenix could be a legit threat too), but it's something to monitor.
We may face Cleveland in an ECF this year, but we could also be facing them for the services of Anthony Davis within the coming year to year-and-a-half. Highly doubt Lebron would leave Cleveland if they acquire Davis, and I'm sure the Cavaliers FO knows this too.
I'm sorry but it isn't going to be the Cavs, when a team trades a franchise player they automatically go in rebuild mode and it would have meant that Cousins would be traded away too or just leave in free agency. The Pelicans wouldn't want anyone over 26-7 at the oldest, as they will run into the same problem with the player wanting to be immediately traded. The only team that could rival Celtics for Davis would be Lakers IMO. If the Lakers offered Ingram, Ball, Kouzma, Zubac ect. with the promise that Lebron/George/CP3 has agreed to sign via free agency then they may have a shot, but they lose all their depth so it's highly doubtful.
Ingram is garbage, Ball has yet to prove anything, and Kouzma and Kouzma/Zubac are scrubs. No chance Pelicans even dream of considering that deal.
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
If I were them, I'd do it. Assuming Klay is planning on walking away anyway...Anthony Davis is IMHO a massive, massive upgrade over Draymond Green.
You’re not them and nobody is assuming Klay is going to walk.
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I hate to say it, but I've heard people around the media/shows mention Cleveland going after a trade for Anthony Davis, and it looks like if Boston and Cleveland are two of the many teams in a bidding war for him (either IN-season or next summer), the C's could be at a disadvantage here.
Cleveland could offer something along the lines of 2018 BKN Pick, Kevin Love, Shumpert (salary), Zizic/Osman, and one future 2020-2021 1st rounder (which could be big if Lebron leaves before then, which is likely) FOR Davis and Asik (salary filler). Or if the Pels want Crowder badly, Cavs would do it with Crowder while taking away someone else (not Love though).
That's probably more than anything BOS can offer unless they literally gut their team.
Kevin Love is a walking double-double at a "modest" rate, and I have a feeling that 2018 BKN pick will be a Top-5 pick while LAL pick.. we just have to pray, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't convey to be honest. We could offer Horford in a trade... but Pelicans may prefer a younger K. Love.
And if CLE trades for Davis say, next summer, then oh boy.. that could also entice Lebron to stay past this season, as Davis is legit someone who can close the gap between CLE and GSW.
That's not to say other teams won't be bidding for Davis (teams like Phoenix could be a legit threat too), but it's something to monitor.
We may face Cleveland in an ECF this year, but we could also be facing them for the services of Anthony Davis within the coming year to year-and-a-half. Highly doubt Lebron would leave Cleveland if they acquire Davis, and I'm sure the Cavaliers FO knows this too.
I'm sorry but it isn't going to be the Cavs, when a team trades a franchise player they automatically go in rebuild mode and it would have meant that Cousins would be traded away too or just leave in free agency. The Pelicans wouldn't want anyone over 26-7 at the oldest, as they will run into the same problem with the player wanting to be immediately traded. The only team that could rival Celtics for Davis would be Lakers IMO. If the Lakers offered Ingram, Ball, Kouzma, Zubac ect. with the promise that Lebron/George/CP3 has agreed to sign via free agency then they may have a shot, but they lose all their depth so it's highly doubtful.
Ingram is garbage, Ball has yet to prove anything, and Kouzma and Kouzma/Zubac are scrubs. No chance Pelicans even dream of considering that deal.
Yeah, that's a laughably bad package for AD
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Nah, I don't see them trading LeBron. He has a no-trade clause.
There is no other way to make the trade remotely valuable comparing to our potential AD offer.
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
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I'm not that worried about them getting Davis specifically, but I do hate that we gave the Cavs the ammunition to add another piece. Upgrading may be what entices Lebron to stay in Cleveland. If that's the case, the trade could end up making it harder for us to make the Finals.
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade. Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team. I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade. Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team. I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).
Would you give up a future hall of famer for it when the Celtics could take your bad contract and give a similar lotto pick plus smart and one of Tatum or brown? Something that you can actually build around ? Put another way, would you rather have 30 million in Kevin love or 30 million in 3 top prospects? Love will just walk or get old. He's just a waste of cap space for a team who won't make the playoffs for 5 years.
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
I see it as a situation where GSW where might need to breakup their four main guys. Everybody is happy now but money (need to take less to keep team together) or desire to be the #1 man on their own team (Klay, Draymond) might break them up at some point.
If GSW sees the writing on the walls 12-24 months down the line, that someone wants to leave -- then trading two of those guys to get a 3rd MVP caliber talent to put alongside Steph and Durant is an attractive proposition.
Hard to keep everybody happy there long term.
As a devil's advocate it's hard NOT to be happy when you keep winning championships.
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade. Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team. I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).
Would you give up a future hall of famer for it when the Celtics could take your bad contract and give a similar lotto pick plus smart and one of Tatum or brown? Something that you can actually build around ? Put another way, would you rather have 30 million in Kevin love or 30 million in 3 top prospects? Love will just walk or get old. He's just a waste of cap space for a team who won't make the playoffs for 5 years.
Davis, Hill, Asik, and Moore make just over 55 million this year. That is a lot of salary to acquire. For Boston to acquire Davis and those contracts, Boston would have to trade at least Horford along with Tatum, Brown, Morris, and LAL (post trade as you need the salary - this summer Boston can't trade Smart). Does Boston still want to do that? I might still do that if I'm Boston, but that trade becomes a lot more costly to do and Love is certainly more valuable than Horford going forward.
The Cavs on the other hand have a lot of extra salary. Love, Shumpert, Smith is enough salary to acquire all 4 of the NO players (that assumes Shumpert takes his player option before the trade). Cleveland could then add in whatever draft picks or young players that New Orleans wants. Cleveland also can work the trade so many different ways with Thompson and Crowder. Heck, Cleveland could even take on Holiday (if New Orleans was looking to move on fully).
Boston certainly can put together a more attractive package than the Cavs for just Davis, but there is a lot of extra value to New Orleans in dumping all those other unattractive contracts if they are moving on from Davis and in that Boston would struggle a great deal coming up with a better package.
The Sixers are also a real problem in any sort of major trade as they have a lot of attractive assets and can take on salary next summer as they are under the cap (even with the Embiid signing). The Lakers also have young player assets and cap room.
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If NO ever decides to trade Davis they will be in total rebuild mode.. That saying Cleveland has no shot and Boston would have to pay a huge price to get him..
It would cost the top pick, Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Memphis pick..
tough pill to swallow but its a similar deal the Celts made years ago for KG ..
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If NO ever decides to trade Davis they will be in total rebuild mode.. That saying Cleveland has no shot and Boston would have to pay a huge price to get him..
It would cost the top pick, Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Memphis pick..
tough pill to swallow but its a similar deal the Celts made years ago for KG ..
That's not remotely close to what we gave Minny for KG. Besides, why would we give up so much? Who are we bidding against that we have to trade away that much to up their offer?
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade. Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team. I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).
Okay, but that really doesn't help them much either. Cleveland only goes after Davis if they still have Lebron and are trying to win, and if you are trying to win you don't take on huge dead salary because that caps your ability to build team (Dan Gilbert isn't gonna pay luxury tax to keep Asik around). If Cleveland loses Lebron they aren't going after Davis, they'd be in the same situation as the Pelicans with an awful roster and a guy they cant build a team around. I get why people may mention Davis as a target for Clevland, but there doesn't seem to be a scenario where it even makes sense for them to try. Even IF they did, the Celtics offer of multiple young players and god picks still probably beats the Cavs ability to take on salary because honestly, what will the Pelicans do with Cap Space and a god awful team? More valuable to get young guys and eat the salary.
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade. Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team. I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).
Would you give up a future hall of famer for it when the Celtics could take your bad contract and give a similar lotto pick plus smart and one of Tatum or brown? Something that you can actually build around ? Put another way, would you rather have 30 million in Kevin love or 30 million in 3 top prospects? Love will just walk or get old. He's just a waste of cap space for a team who won't make the playoffs for 5 years.
Davis, Hill, Asik, and Moore make just over 55 million this year. That is a lot of salary to acquire. For Boston to acquire Davis and those contracts, Boston would have to trade at least Horford along with Tatum, Brown, Morris, and LAL (post trade as you need the salary - this summer Boston can't trade Smart). Does Boston still want to do that? I might still do that if I'm Boston, but that trade becomes a lot more costly to do and Love is certainly more valuable than Horford going forward.
The Cavs on the other hand have a lot of extra salary. Love, Shumpert, Smith is enough salary to acquire all 4 of the NO players (that assumes Shumpert takes his player option before the trade). Cleveland could then add in whatever draft picks or young players that New Orleans wants. Cleveland also can work the trade so many different ways with Thompson and Crowder. Heck, Cleveland could even take on Holiday (if New Orleans was looking to move on fully).
Boston certainly can put together a more attractive package than the Cavs for just Davis, but there is a lot of extra value to New Orleans in dumping all those other unattractive contracts if they are moving on from Davis and in that Boston would struggle a great deal coming up with a better package.
The Sixers are also a real problem in any sort of major trade as they have a lot of attractive assets and can take on salary next summer as they are under the cap (even with the Embiid signing). The Lakers also have young player assets and cap room.
I didn't mean to say that we'd give them Tatum, LAL18, Smart + absorb ALL of their bad contract.
A fair deal would be something like this:
BOS:
Davis, E. Moore
PELS:
Tatum, LAL18, Smart (estimating him at 15-20 mil/yr extension), M. Morris + whatever filler
That would give the Pelicans some cap relief (Morris has a good contract), Marcus Smart, Tatum, and a good lottery pick. Everything they'd need to begin the rebuild.
Just because they have Hill and Asik on contract for another 2 years (after this season) doesn't mean anything. They need to get over the cap minimum anyways (I'm assuming Cousins walks in FA in this scenario).
This is much better than anything the Cavs can do.
Having said that, I'd rather wait til he's a free agent, sign Horford to a vet minimum (please Al!!) and recruit him for free. But if Pelicans agree to the above trade (they won't), you gotta pull the trigger.
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I can't believe how many comments got this thread got. If we really really want Davis and will give up whatever it takes to get him, Cleveland isn't even in the ballpark to compete with that. If pelicans wanted young players and picks the cavs are the oldest team in the league with one projected lottery pick. If they want young players with upside we have smart, brown, Tatum, rosier and other guys worth taking a flier on. If they wanted established stars we have kyrie (who the league just had half the teams try to trade for) and Hayward. The cavs have an injured expiring guard that wants less money, a 33 year old superstar that will test free agency, aincient role players and Love who Lowe has commented has very low value around the league. I actually think there is a chance the Cavs are the WORST trading partner for a guy like Davis in the league. At a minimum they are bottom 5. I am really baffled by this thread...
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Whenever a pessimist starts a thread with " I hate to say it ..." you know they're really revelling in being the bearer of bad news.
Not to go too far OT, but you get a TP for that fits one of my coworkers to a T. Absolutely drives me nuts.
Mike
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If the LAL are loosing and their pick looks to transfer Danny wont make a move for AD. yeah he's great but were are about to be a super team. Tatum looks for real and hopefully is still growing. If he grows an inch he's PG13 on the cheep. IF he grows two inches to 6'10 look out NBA, but even at 6'8 and a few more pounds of mussel he can handle the 4 spot. Brown is looking to be a Jimmy butler clone. With pick 2-5 we can most likely get one of Ayton, Bagley, or Bamba, that's a franchise center and legit rim protector. We're rolling out a pretty awesome team this year and that LAL pick will definitively close the rebuild and leave us with a seriously nasty starting 5:
PG: Irving 6'3
SG: Brown 6'7
SF: Hayward 6'8
PF: Tatum 6'9 (lets say he grows an inch, plus he looks more like 6'9 than 6'8 right now anyway)
C: Ayton 7'0 (260lbs beast! and can shoot the 3)
That starting five would move the ball so well and create crazy space as all five can stroke the three and create their own shot. In that lineup Brown would probably being the worst shooter on the floor and he's not really all that bad. We don't need to trade for AD we can draft him or a close facsimile next year. Even if we need to take the Kings pick in 2019, that pick plus our three other 2019 firsts could get us Bol Bol, who is showing a 3 point stroke. AD is great but we don't need him.
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Firstly, NOP have no reason to trade AD for at least another year and a half. They have way too much time left on his contract to try and make things work.
Whenever he may go on the market, have a think about what recent superstars went for and that'll be your range. You'll find that there are always 3-4 teams that have a similar offer because noone will offer the farm for one player. No team is as fixated on an individual player like fans are.
Ultimately if a trade ever happened, NOP will choose the package they see as best. That could be a complete rebuild package or one that keeps them semi competitive, it'll totally depending on their GM/Owner situation at the time. Let's put it this way, if AD is on the trade block, Dell Demps is already long gone and the new GM has found no way to improve the team. Until Demps is gone, fans are living on a cloud thinking AD is going to be traded...
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if the Pelicans move him they are the worst run franchise in NBA history. There is 0 return you could receive where you win the trade.
Why would they move him? I got boxes of cereal in my cabinet old than him.
They could start a rebuild today and he's still young enough to come out the other side still in peak prime age of 26-27.
I'll be honest not even sure how this has been a rumor for so long unless we are hoping to channel our inner Lavar and speak it into existence.
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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard in a while.
I see it as a situation where GSW where might need to breakup their four main guys. Everybody is happy now but money (need to take less to keep team together) or desire to be the #1 man on their own team (Klay, Draymond) might break them up at some point.
If GSW sees the writing on the walls 12-24 months down the line, that someone wants to leave -- then trading two of those guys to get a 3rd MVP caliber talent to put alongside Steph and Durant is an attractive proposition.
Hard to keep everybody happy there long term.
As a devil's advocate it's hard NOT to be happy when you keep winning championships.
Wasn't there a report that Kyrie wanted to be traded right after the Cavs won?
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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade. Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team. I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).
Would you give up a future hall of famer for it when the Celtics could take your bad contract and give a similar lotto pick plus smart and one of Tatum or brown? Something that you can actually build around ? Put another way, would you rather have 30 million in Kevin love or 30 million in 3 top prospects? Love will just walk or get old. He's just a waste of cap space for a team who won't make the playoffs for 5 years.
Davis, Hill, Asik, and Moore make just over 55 million this year. That is a lot of salary to acquire. For Boston to acquire Davis and those contracts, Boston would have to trade at least Horford along with Tatum, Brown, Morris, and LAL (post trade as you need the salary - this summer Boston can't trade Smart). Does Boston still want to do that? I might still do that if I'm Boston, but that trade becomes a lot more costly to do and Love is certainly more valuable than Horford going forward.
The Cavs on the other hand have a lot of extra salary. Love, Shumpert, Smith is enough salary to acquire all 4 of the NO players (that assumes Shumpert takes his player option before the trade). Cleveland could then add in whatever draft picks or young players that New Orleans wants. Cleveland also can work the trade so many different ways with Thompson and Crowder. Heck, Cleveland could even take on Holiday (if New Orleans was looking to move on fully).
Boston certainly can put together a more attractive package than the Cavs for just Davis, but there is a lot of extra value to New Orleans in dumping all those other unattractive contracts if they are moving on from Davis and in that Boston would struggle a great deal coming up with a better package.
The Sixers are also a real problem in any sort of major trade as they have a lot of attractive assets and can take on salary next summer as they are under the cap (even with the Embiid signing). The Lakers also have young player assets and cap room.
I didn't mean to say that we'd give them Tatum, LAL18, Smart + absorb ALL of their bad contract.
A fair deal would be something like this:
BOS:
Davis, E. Moore
PELS:
Tatum, LAL18, Smart (estimating him at 15-20 mil/yr extension), M. Morris + whatever filler
That would give the Pelicans some cap relief (Morris has a good contract), Marcus Smart, Tatum, and a good lottery pick. Everything they'd need to begin the rebuild.
Just because they have Hill and Asik on contract for another 2 years (after this season) doesn't mean anything. They need to get over the cap minimum anyways (I'm assuming Cousins walks in FA in this scenario).
This is much better than anything the Cavs can do.
Having said that, I'd rather wait til he's a free agent, sign Horford to a vet minimum (please Al!!) and recruit him for free. But if Pelicans agree to the above trade (they won't), you gotta pull the trigger.
Boston can't really trade Smart next summer at all and Boston has no other filler. That is the point I was making. Boston can only acquire Davis without also trading Horford. New Orleans might very well do that, but I suspect if New Orleans is tanking they are going to want to move the bad contracts they have and there is a real value in that.
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Boston can't really trade Smart next summer at all and Boston has no other filler. That is the point I was making. Boston can only acquire Davis without also trading Horford. New Orleans might very well do that, but I suspect if New Orleans is tanking they are going to want to move the bad contracts they have and there is a real value in that.
Can you please explain to me why Boston can't trade Smart after extending him to $15-20 mil/yr? He's worth the money (it's a valuable asset). I mean I love Smart more than most... but he's not the reason I turn down Anthony Davis.
Also please explain what's the big deal of overpaying Asik for 2 years while you navigate the lottery and develop Tatum/Smart/Picks? Sorry, but you are making it sound like there are a bunch of great young talent that NOP could sign if only Asik isn't eating up cap space.
For the NOP to make this deal, they're targetting something like 2023 when Smart is 29 and Tatum, LAL18, NOP18, NOP19 are all about 25/26. At that point, really... who cares about Omer Asik's $10 million salary for a few years? We didn't care about Gerald Wallace stinking it up for about the same money. When you're a bottom feeder, you don't mind taking on garbage contracts for future assets because you're tanking.
BTW the filler I mentioned was based on the fact that I don't know what Smart's extended contract could be. If I'm off a mil or two, you could throw in Semi or something.
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I can't believe how many comments got this thread got. If we really really want Davis and will give up whatever it takes to get him, Cleveland isn't even in the ballpark to compete with that. If pelicans wanted young players and picks the cavs are the oldest team in the league with one projected lottery pick. If they want young players with upside we have smart, brown, Tatum, rosier and other guys worth taking a flier on. If they wanted established stars we have kyrie (who the league just had half the teams try to trade for) and Hayward. The cavs have an injured expiring guard that wants less money, a 33 year old superstar that will test free agency, aincient role players and Love who Lowe has commented has very low value around the league. I actually think there is a chance the Cavs are the WORST trading partner for a guy like Davis in the league. At a minimum they are bottom 5. I am really baffled by this thread...
This, basically. The only thing the Cavs have that might interest New Orleans is the Nets pick. I don't know what the Celtics would want to give up but in a "potential bidding war" the Celtics have a lot more assets (in both young players and in picks) than Cleveland.
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And we can offer TWO 1st round picks, Tatum and Brown.
If New Orleans is going for a rebuild, what better way to do it than acquire two high potential kids on rookie deals and two 1st rounders, one of them could be in the top 5 in either 2018 or 2019.
I won't worry.
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Boston can't really trade Smart next summer at all and Boston has no other filler. That is the point I was making. Boston can only acquire Davis without also trading Horford. New Orleans might very well do that, but I suspect if New Orleans is tanking they are going to want to move the bad contracts they have and there is a real value in that.
Can you please explain to me why Boston can't trade Smart after extending him to $15-20 mil/yr? He's worth the money (it's a valuable asset). I mean I love Smart more than most... but he's not the reason I turn down Anthony Davis.
Also please explain what's the big deal of overpaying Asik for 2 years while you navigate the lottery and develop Tatum/Smart/Picks? Sorry, but you are making it sound like there are a bunch of great young talent that NOP could sign if only Asik isn't eating up cap space.
For the NOP to make this deal, they're targetting something like 2023 when Smart is 29 and Tatum, LAL18, NOP18, NOP19 are all about 25/26. At that point, really... who cares about Omer Asik's $10 million salary for a few years? We didn't care about Gerald Wallace stinking it up for about the same money. When you're a bottom feeder, you don't mind taking on garbage contracts for future assets because you're tanking.
BTW the filler I mentioned was based on the fact that I don't know what Smart's extended contract could be. If I'm off a mil or two, you could throw in Semi or something.
Smart is a restricted free agent. If he signs in Boston next summer, he can't be traded for multiple months. To do a sign and trade, Smart would have to agree to go whatever team signed him and even then options are limited because not every team can acquire a player in a sign and trade. Now if Smart signs an extension now, he could be traded next summer but the rules are limited.
And there is absolutely no reason a team rebuilding would want 35 million tied up in basically worthless players for the next 3 seasons. New Orleans is much better off unloading those terrible contracts as they serve absolutely no purpose and the only way they can realistically do it is to attach them to Davis. New Orleans can much more effectively use those dollars and get assets to do it (see Nets with Crabbe or as you mention Boston with Wallace where Boston got an extra 1st to take on Wallace).
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
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Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
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Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom.
Really living up to your name, Phantom!
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/b0/df/48b0df0eb5483d5f3919745851a133b1.jpg)
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
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If the LAL are loosing and their pick looks to transfer Danny wont make a move for AD. yeah he's great but were are about to be a super team. Tatum looks for real and hopefully is still growing. If he grows an inch he's PG13 on the cheep. IF he grows two inches to 6'10 look out NBA, but even at 6'8 and a few more pounds of mussel he can handle the 4 spot. Brown is looking to be a Jimmy butler clone. With pick 2-5 we can most likely get one of Ayton, Bagley, or Bamba, that's a franchise center and legit rim protector. We're rolling out a pretty awesome team this year and that LAL pick will definitively close the rebuild and leave us with a seriously nasty starting 5:
PG: Irving 6'3
SG: Brown 6'7
SF: Hayward 6'8
PF: Tatum 6'9 (lets say he grows an inch, plus he looks more like 6'9 than 6'8 right now anyway)
C: Ayton 7'0 (260lbs beast! and can shoot the 3)
That starting five would move the ball so well and create crazy space as all five can stroke the three and create their own shot. In that lineup Brown would probably being the worst shooter on the floor and he's not really all that bad. We don't need to trade for AD we can draft him or a close facsimile next year. Even if we need to take the Kings pick in 2019, that pick plus our three other 2019 firsts could get us Bol Bol, who is showing a 3 point stroke. AD is great but we don't need him.
DING DING DING we have a winner. No need to gut teal for AD. Danny should stay the course and build the rest of this team through the LAL/SAC pick.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom.
Really living up to your name, Phantom!
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/b0/df/48b0df0eb5483d5f3919745851a133b1.jpg)
All part of the plan! ;)
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
I wonder why... ;)
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One of the silliest threads I've seen on CB.
One of our young stars + 2 potentially good draft picks is better than anything CLE can offer in the very unlikely event AD becomes available. NO isn't looking for something like Kevin Love in return for AD.
OP must sit around looking for new things to worry about or trash the Celts over.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
I wonder why... ;)
Come on now, I didn't start this thread, I merely posted in it along the premise of the thread.
I just don't see why New Orleans would trade Davis without also unloading its flotsam. That would absolutely be a requirement I'd put on the trade if I was the Pelicans. And that just makes dealing with Boston a lot harder unless Boston is willing to unload Horford (which it very well might).
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
I wonder why... ;)
Come on now, I didn't start this thread, I merely posted in it along the premise of the thread.
I just don't see why New Orleans would trade Davis without also unloading its flotsam. That would absolutely be a requirement I'd put on the trade if I was the Pelicans. And that just makes dealing with Boston a lot harder unless Boston is willing to unload Horford (which it very well might).
If I'm a bad team I would rather just hold those bad contracts and get back more young/pick assets. You have to hit a minimum salary floor regardless so you need to pay someone, and with no Davis you aren't a destination that free agents will go to so what use is cap space? Instead, why not get more picks/players, hold onto your overpriced veterans as "character guys" while you suck and wait their contracts out at which point maybe your youth has developed to make you an attractive destination. You could make the case NOP should be taking back MORE awful contracts to get picks in this scenario. Clearing cap space only helps if you can use it, NOP can't.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
I wonder why... ;)
Come on now, I didn't start this thread, I merely posted in it along the premise of the thread.
I just don't see why New Orleans would trade Davis without also unloading its flotsam. That would absolutely be a requirement I'd put on the trade if I was the Pelicans. And that just makes dealing with Boston a lot harder unless Boston is willing to unload Horford (which it very well might).
If I'm a bad team I would rather just hold those bad contracts and get back more young/pick assets. You have to hit a minimum salary floor regardless so you need to pay someone, and with no Davis you aren't a destination that free agents will go to so what use is cap space? Instead, why not get more picks/players, hold onto your overpriced veterans as "character guys" while you suck and wait their contracts out at which point maybe your youth has developed to make you an attractive destination. You could make the case NOP should be taking back MORE awful contracts to get picks in this scenario. Clearing cap space only helps if you can use it, NOP can't.
Of course they can use it, just like Philly and Brooklyn did when they were terrible.
-
Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
I wonder why... ;)
Come on now, I didn't start this thread, I merely posted in it along the premise of the thread.
I just don't see why New Orleans would trade Davis without also unloading its flotsam. That would absolutely be a requirement I'd put on the trade if I was the Pelicans. And that just makes dealing with Boston a lot harder unless Boston is willing to unload Horford (which it very well might).
If I'm a bad team I would rather just hold those bad contracts and get back more young/pick assets. You have to hit a minimum salary floor regardless so you need to pay someone, and with no Davis you aren't a destination that free agents will go to so what use is cap space? Instead, why not get more picks/players, hold onto your overpriced veterans as "character guys" while you suck and wait their contracts out at which point maybe your youth has developed to make you an attractive destination. You could make the case NOP should be taking back MORE awful contracts to get picks in this scenario. Clearing cap space only helps if you can use it, NOP can't.
Of course they can use it, just like Philly and Brooklyn did when they were terrible.
Bath those teams used it to take on salary for draft picks. If you have the choice as a bad team to shed salary to in order to use that space to being on bad salary for draft picks, OR you can just ask the team for extra draft picks and keep your bad salary, why not skip the middle man? The celtics cab offer more draft picks than Cleveland, they don't need to take on bad salary.
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Don't think NOP will be interested in Kevin Love, if they trade AD, they'd want either a young star or a promising young prospect + lottery picks. A 30 years old Love won't do much for the Pelicans.
They can do better by dealing with the Suns, Lakers, 76ers, or us.
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Just another Doom and Gloom thread by Phantom. I guess our new team played to well in the preseason that we have to look for other things to worry about.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/FxEwsOF1D79za/giphy.webp)
Right... so I'm really the Dan Shaugnessy around here, huh? :P
I tend to be more optimistic around here but also realistic as well. Didn't realize I made a ton of doom and gloom threads on here though lol.
I don't notice you being particularly doom and gloom. This thread seems particularly bizarre though because Cleveland has one of the least tradeable rosters in the NBA. Lebron and IT are completely untradable. They have no young prospects and one probable lottery pick. The New York Knicks would be a bigger threat. Really don't get this thread.
The Knicks could be another threat, I agree, but what can they offer besides draft picks while trying to keep Porzingis?
Also, CLE can offer Love as salary, the Nets Pick, some 2021 first rounder (likely post-Lebron so could be valuable pick) a nice piece like Crowder and maybe a nice young piece like Zizic? Not a horrible package and could be enticing if BKN pick lands Top-3. They may also be able to take back a bad contract from Pelicans and offer a Shumpert I believe (which could entice NOP to deal with CLE also).
Why would anyone want to play for CLE once LeBron bolts? if he has any sense he would not go there. It is not a basketball town unless they are winning. It is pretending that they are basketball town but once they stink again it won't be.
Thank god for your common sense.
I think if CLE acquires Davis, it would mean Lebron stays for good in CLE.
Might mean a weaker bench/depth but Lebron would be foolish to leave the situation still in CLE IF AD is coming.
Phantom your making no sense here. Love is on the back half of his career and is making top dollar. If the pelicans decide they have to blow it up and start over (which says nothing of their 150 million investment in holiday) the last thing they will want to do is invest in a fringe all star nearing decline. When are you envisioning this trade happening? I think you could make a compelling case for 20 teams in the league offering a great deal for Davis. Cleveland is less likely then all of them... let's discuss some more reasonable ones
Part of the reasoning is that teams will have to send salary back, and between Horford and Love, teams like NOP would probably prefer Love. By next year Love is also an expiring I believe (player option 5th year)
Again I don't think an AD trade gets done this season anyways and it's something to monitor (we also have time to see how Tatum and Brown do). If he does get traded it won't be until next summer at earliest (if Pelicans suck this season too).
The Pelicans also could theoretically determine that Cousins and Davis aren't a great fit, but go the optimization of value route and re-sign Cousins and then trade Davis for other pieces. In that type of scenario, acquiring someone like Love to play with Cousins would have some merit as would swapping out players like Hill and Moore for players like Smith and Shumpert. Add in the BKN rookie and the Pelicans have a remade, but still solid team with Cousins, Love, Holiday, Smith, BKN, etc.
You spend an incredible amount of time thinking of ways to help Cleveland
I wonder why... ;)
Come on now, I didn't start this thread, I merely posted in it along the premise of the thread.
I just don't see why New Orleans would trade Davis without also unloading its flotsam. That would absolutely be a requirement I'd put on the trade if I was the Pelicans. And that just makes dealing with Boston a lot harder unless Boston is willing to unload Horford (which it very well might).
Lol I was just joking, and I do agree with that possibility (that Pels could build around Cousins if they chose to). It's probably not the best route, but could depend on how desperate the Pels are to get rid of some of the big contracts, and if AD gets frustrated with the organization too.
Not likely, but possible.