CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on October 23, 2018, 01:29:31 AM
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Not going to win many games like that. We're lucky we have won as many as we have
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Kyrie 2 of 4 games with 0 FTs. Strange to see given how good he is at getting to the basket.
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They're settling for too many jumpers. They need to take to the rim and run more pick and rolls. A little post play would be nice too. I'm not sure if they're playing lazily or haven't figured out how to play together yet, but Stevens has some serious coaching to do.
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Kyrie 2 of 4 games with 0 FTs. Strange to see given how good he is at getting to the basket.
In my opinion, he hasn't been getting any calls.
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I don't like a lot of the rules changes this year and a lot of the calls have been bad for all the teams. Those calls on the picks on Hayward and Theis were especially bad.
We all know the refs hate us. Kyrie is having to adjust to getting every call as a Cav to being on your own as a Celtic. But the refs have been universally bad for all teams.
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I'm getting the vibe that the starters are extremely focused on playing within the system, almost to the detriment of their instincts and aggressiveness. It feels like Morris has been more aggressive off the bench than most of the starters. There's definitely going to be growing pains when you have a group of 5 players who are capable of scoring in multiple ways.
This is part of the reason that Toronto looks much sharper than the Celtics to start the season. Kawhi and Lowry have the freedom to run the offense, while the rest of the guys focus on hitting open shots, crashing the boards, and cutting to the hoop. Role players thrive off of simplicity when surrounded by a couple of All-Star caliber players.
The poor shooting is another reason we aren't getting to the line. Last night Orlando was perfectly content packing the paint and rotating on drives with their athletic big men. It felt like they were coached to allow the open threes unless the Celtics finally made them pay. I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that the Celtics missed 12 wide open shots from beyond the arc. If even 3 of those go in we are looking at a completely different game.
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
I don't believe that this has anything to do with a lack of ability to get to the rim. I think my post above has a lot to do with the early struggles on offense. Kyrie and Hayward are getting to the line significantly less than their career averages. Tatum also proved to be more than capable of drawing fouls in the playoffs last year.
Imagine if Tatum, Kyrie, and Gordon were running the ISO heavy offense that the Rockets used last season. Harden and Paul have the luxury to go into full attack mode while the other 4 guys stand beyond the arc. It's boring but very effective in the modern NBA, especially against weaker competition.
I'm certainly not advocating for the Celtics to adopt this system. ISO ball fatigues star players and has limited upside compared to the motion offense that a team like Golden State runs. The free throw stat also doesn't seem to correlate to winning games. Only half of the top 10 leaders in team free throws made the playoffs last year.
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best
Kyrie historically hasn’t drawn a lot of contact, even when he drives. Hayward has tended to play a bit more to contact (6 FTAs per game his last three healthy seasons).
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
I don't believe that this has anything to do with a lack of ability to get to the rim. I think my post above has a lot to do with the early struggles on offense. Kyrie and Hayward are getting to the line significantly less than their career averages. Tatum also proved to be more than capable of drawing fouls in the playoffs last year.
Imagine if Tatum, Kyrie, and Gordon were running the ISO heavy offense that the Rockets used last season. Harden and Paul have the luxury to go into full attack mode while the other 4 guys stand beyond the arc. It's boring but very effective in the modern NBA, especially against weaker competition.
I'm certainly not advocating for the Celtics to adopt this system. ISO ball fatigues star players and has limited upside compared to the motion offense that a team like Golden State runs. The free throw stat also doesn't seem to correlate to winning games. Only half of the top 10 leaders in team free throws made the playoffs last year.
Agree completely with your assessment, TP. Particularly about playing perhaps too within the system
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best
Kyrie historically hasn’t drawn a lot of contact, even when he drives. Hayward has tended to play a bit more to contact (6 FTAs per game his last three healthy seasons).
Yeah, that's why I focused more on the Tony Parker element of the post. Parker never averaged more than 5 FTAs per game, and averaged around 4.5 for his prime. Kyrie hovers around 4.4 for his career, but is around 13% better from the stripe, so I thought they were comparable penetrators
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That is our biggest team weakness offensively.
I don't see room for internal improvement to make things worst.
That's what separates us from the best offenses IMO.
A guy that can drive to the rim tirelessly; prime Tony Parker, Giannis, AD, KD, Harden, LeBron...
prime IT as well.
Out of our guys, Brown seems to possess the best potential to get to the rim,
but he can't make freebies. Lacks finishing touch.
Tatum is more of a mid-range killer. An opportunistic driver, even though he makes FT's when there.
Outside shooting is nice, but what is the point in spacing if you don't know how to use the available space.
Do you not think Kyrie can be that guy? I know this season he's been shooting a lot from the outside, and not very well, but in the last couple of games he seems to have gotten more aggressive, I see him as a better Tony Parker, as he can pull up off the PnR from deeper and has a better handle. I reckon once his legs are completely underneath him his penetration will be our teams best
Kyrie historically hasn’t drawn a lot of contact, even when he drives. Hayward has tended to play a bit more to contact (6 FTAs per game his last three healthy seasons).
Yeah, that's why I focused more on the Tony Parker element of the post. Parker never averaged more than 5 FTAs per game and averaged around 4.5 for his prime. Kyrie hovers around 4.4 for his career but is around 13% better from the stripe, so I thought they were comparable penetrators
Kyrie can drive, we know that he just isn't a tireless, relentless driver.
That a different category.
Regarding Haywards and his 6 FTs per game before the injury, right now I can't ask from to attack the rim with that determination. The injury was severe. If he manages to get back - great.
As for Tony Parker, he might not have averaged a huge amount of FTA, but he led the league in "paint" FGs for a few years with great efficiency. He was literally unstoppable penetrating the defense for years and years. Kyrie never sniffed these results. Few perimeter players ever did.
We need penetrators to make some use of this additional space.
Right now we don't have them.
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Yup, last night i began to notice that. I was like, something is missing, there has to be a way to score some easy points, and realized that our FT game is wayyyy off.
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No problems at all right now. Let people get their shots up from mid/outside.
Some are totally failing to notice what Jaylen is working on in games. Once he explores that a bit, he'll be back to himself.
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Last night Orlando was perfectly content packing the paint and rotating on drives with their athletic big men. It felt like they were coached to allow the open threes unless the Celtics finally made them pay. I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that the Celtics missed 12 wide open shots from beyond the arc. If even 3 of those go in we are looking at a completely different game.
Their strategy worked perfectly. Now if someone - anyone - could have made a few it would have forced a change but why change something up that's working? Interestingly last night, Hayward was their most efficient offensive contributor. Kyrie got it going late. Everyone was pretty much garbage - Brown, Tatum and Horford being the biggest culprits in the clangfeset.
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Last night Orlando was perfectly content packing the paint and rotating on drives with their athletic big men. It felt like they were coached to allow the open threes unless the Celtics finally made them pay. I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying that the Celtics missed 12 wide open shots from beyond the arc. If even 3 of those go in we are looking at a completely different game.
Their strategy worked perfectly. Now if someone - anyone - could have made a few it would have forced a change but why change something up that's working? Interestingly last night, Hayward was their most efficient offensive contributor. Kyrie got it going late. Everyone was pretty much garbage - Brown, Tatum and Horford being the biggest culprits in the clangfeset.
Agreed. I expect other teams to use the same strategy until the Celtics begin to make their shots from three.
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The FT's thing is a worry. It's the best way to get easy points and the Celtics, right now, don't have anyone who consistently gets to the line a la Pierce or IT.
Kyrie's game is about avoiding the defender, not taking it at them so his FT's have always been low but he's even lower now.
Horford has never been that kind of player either, he's just not a banger. Hayward isn't right yet so he's not getting to the line. As someone else said, Brown should be getting to the line a ton but he still struggles reading the defense and bending it to where he can put himself in position to get contact.
Tatum is the best bet. For his uptick in shot attempts he should be getting to the line more. He needs to dust off that Paul Pierce video and work on his pump fake.
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The FT's thing is a worry. It's the best way to get easy points and the Celtics, right now, don't have anyone who consistently gets to the line a la Pierce or IT.
Kyrie's game is about avoiding the defender, not taking it at them so his FT's have always been low but he's even lower now.
Horford has never been that kind of player either, he's just not a banger. Hayward isn't right yet so he's not getting to the line. As someone else said, Brown should be getting to the line a ton but he still struggles reading the defense and bending it to where he can put himself in position to get contact.
Tatum is the best bet. For his uptick in shot attempts he should be getting to the line more. He needs to dust off that Paul Pierce video and work on his pump fake.
Another thing hurting JB is his free throw shooting itself, sadly.
If Tatum can hit that 9 FTAs per game Pierce was from 2001-2007 I will weep with joy
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Kyrie and Hayward are coming back from injury so maybe they are purposely avoiding contact (kyrie always avoids but maybe more now than before)
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Tommy is right. There is a conspiracy by the refs and league to keep the Cs down and off the line. That’s the only reason.
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Kyrie 2 of 4 games with 0 FTs. Strange to see given how good he is at getting to the basket.
He doesn't like contact and has never been all that good at getting to the line (career FTr is just 25.5% - Steph Curry is 23.8% for a comparison while a great FT creator like Harden is 54%). With his injury issues, he is even less inclined to take contact.
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Tommy is right. There is a conspiracy by the refs and league to keep the Cs down and off the line. That’s the only reason.
well naturally ;)
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Tommy is right. There is a conspiracy by the refs and league to keep the Cs down and off the line. That’s the only reason.
He's never been wrong about the refs before. We're lucky to have his unbiased perspective on important issues like this.
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Weak effort, leads to weak result.
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Don't tell Tommy!