Author Topic: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)  (Read 366958 times)

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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1695 on: January 05, 2019, 01:34:25 AM »

Offline gouki88

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If I were the Sixers, I'd dupe some idiot GMs into thinking that Simmons is a great player and trade him there. I'd also find a way to get value for that cancer Butler.

Build around Embiid, get more shooting around him, get some playmaking to replace Simmons.

With people calling Jaylen Brown "basically Jeff Green", at what point does Ben Simmons become "bigger Evan Turner"?
Size is everything in basketball. Simmons isn't just bigger. He's 6'10''!! That's unprecedented for the PG position.

I'm tired of hearing about how it's impossible to be an elite player in today's NBA without being a good shooter. I don't buy it for a second. Look what Giannis is doing this season with the Bucks. Had Simmons entered the league (let's say) 5 years earlier than he did, I bet people would have been comparing him to LeBron and Magic. Instead, he enters the league during this 3-point mania and people compare him to Evan Turner.
Man, the Simmons to Giannis comparison is incredibly lazy. Giannis hovers between 25-30% from 3. So he's undoubtedly a bad 3 point shooter. Ben Simmons has never ever made a single 3 in his career. Not to mention the gaping difference in their free throw shooting, alongside Giannis being perhaps the most unstoppable athlete in the league. 

Heck, Simmons makes Manute Bol look like Curry. Ben Simmons was getting foolish comparisons to Magic and LBJ based on the premise that his shooting would improve. It hasn't, and the comparisons have disappeared
More like 15.2% this season (26.9% for his career). Regardless, the point is that defenders don't respect his shot. He has less room to operate as a slasher cause defenders dare him to shoot the ball. That's exactly what's happening with Simmons as well.

The way I see it, they both have the same strengths and the same weaknesses:

- they are both terrible shooters
- they are both elite slashers
- they both have excellent court vision (Simmons is even better than Giannis in that regard)
- very good ball handlers (especially given their size)
- very good rebounders
- very good defenders
You're right that defenders don't respect either of their shots, but it doesn't change the fact that Giannis is averaging about 10 more PPG, because he's absolutely elite inside and is almost physically impossible to defend.

Just because they're similar doesn't mean they're even close to being similarly effective. It's like if someone tried to compare Nurkic to Jokic, as they have similar strengths and weaknesses:

- very good rebounders
- good passing big men
- slow laterally
- strong finishers inside
- average threats from mid-range and beyond
- weak defensively

Nurkic is still obviously a lesser player, and is more hindered by his weaknesses much the same way Simmons is. Simmons is much more a giant Rondo (without the same spirit) than he is anything near Magic or LeBron

Huh? Nurkic has scored 3 3-pointers during his entire NBA career. That's three. Compare that to Jokic's number who has scored 223!
They are both good passing big men you say. Thing is, Jokic is an elite passer whereas Nurkic is nowhere near that level. I would argue he's just an above average passer.

Giannis is averaging about 10 points per game more cause he is the go-to guy for the Bucks. Simmons is playing 3rd fiddle to Embiid and Butler. Not to mention the fact that the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with 4 shooters in order to maximize his effectiveness in the paint. The Sixers have one knock down shooter (Redick) and that's about it. Remember last season when the Sixers signed Belinelli + Ilyasova? That's when they started playing their best basketball!
Similar liberties like saying Simmons (9 RPG) vs Giannis (over 12.5 RPG) are both elite rebounders! Only one is elite. Giannis also blows Simmons out of the water in terms of slashing.

Yeah, they did play their best ball at that stage (against a very weak schedule, mind you). But once they came up against elite competition who focused on shutting down the shooters and forcing Simmons to do damage (as in us), he looked completely average. I'm not saying he's not a good player, but he is really not the All-NBA guy people were proclaiming he would be. His ability to put the ball in the basket is god awful for a perimeter player
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1696 on: January 05, 2019, 01:47:25 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Giannis is averaging about 10 points per game more cause he is the go-to guy for the Bucks. Simmons is playing 3rd fiddle to Embiid and Butler. Not to mention the fact that the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with 4 shooters in order to maximize his effectiveness in the paint. The Sixers have one knock down shooter (Redick) and that's about it. Remember last season when the Sixers signed Belinelli + Ilyasova? That's when they started playing their best basketball!

This is a good point. Simmons with shooters would be niiiice.

I thought the 6ers were basically a mini-Rockets team with Hinkie at the helm. I'm surprised their cap situation is so dire that they can't find a shooter.
If you add shooters to anyone it'll be nice or at least better.  Even other shooters benefit by having shooters around them.  It's like adding bacon to other foods. 

Sixers cap situation isn't dire.  When they didn't get a star last offseason, they wanted to keep their cap space for this offseason so they only signed players who would accept a 1 year contract.  I expect they'll be active in the buyout market like they were last season. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1697 on: January 05, 2019, 02:07:06 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I’m quite certain Butler has entrenched himself into my Mount Rushmore of most hated NBA players (alongside Wade, Kobe, and Zaza).
CELTICS 2024

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1698 on: January 05, 2019, 02:21:21 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I’m quite certain Butler has entrenched himself into my Mount Rushmore of most hated NBA players (alongside Wade, Kobe, and Zaza).
He isn't a player I hate like I hate Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Metta World Peace, Carmelo Anthony and a lot of players from other eras, but he is making his way into the Mount Rushmore stratus of good players I would never want to see play in Celtic green, like Boogie Cousins, J R Smith, John Wall and LeBron James

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1699 on: January 05, 2019, 02:39:01 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Every nba player hates playing with butler

He’s like a Demarcus cousins type in the way that teammates don’t like playing with the guy.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1700 on: January 05, 2019, 04:51:20 AM »

Offline 10610786d

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Giannis is averaging about 10 points per game more cause he is the go-to guy for the Bucks. Simmons is playing 3rd fiddle to Embiid and Butler. Not to mention the fact that the Bucks have surrounded Giannis with 4 shooters in order to maximize his effectiveness in the paint. The Sixers have one knock down shooter (Redick) and that's about it. Remember last season when the Sixers signed Belinelli + Ilyasova? That's when they started playing their best basketball!

This is a good point. Simmons with shooters would be niiiice.

I thought the 6ers were basically a mini-Rockets team with Hinkie at the helm. I'm surprised their cap situation is so dire that they can't find a shooter.
If you add shooters to anyone it'll be nice or at least better.  Even other shooters benefit by having shooters around them.  It's like adding bacon to other foods. 

Sixers cap situation isn't dire.  When they didn't get a star last offseason, they wanted to keep their cap space for this offseason so they only signed players who would accept a 1 year contract.  I expect they'll be active in the buyout market like they were last season.

Ok I guess what I heard was that they can't seem to add role players. But I guess that's more of a draft problem than anything.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1701 on: January 05, 2019, 05:36:13 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Every nba player hates playing with butler

He’s like a Demarcus cousins type in the way that teammates don’t like playing with the guy.
I always thought DMC clashed with staff more than teammates, but I think the main difference is that Cousins has all the talent in the world, whereas Butler is a B+ guy who thinks he's an A - A+ guy
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1702 on: January 05, 2019, 05:42:49 AM »

Offline 10610786d

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Every nba player hates playing with butler

He’s like a Demarcus cousins type in the way that teammates don’t like playing with the guy.
I always thought DMC clashed with staff more than teammates, but I think the main difference is that Cousins has all the talent in the world, whereas Butler is a B+ guy who thinks he's an A - A+ guy

In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Guy is feisty, and plays with an edge, and does all the right things while playing - defense, rebounding, hustle. He's like a bigger, more offensively refined Marcus Smart.

Maybe as his career winds down, he could reel it in and become a Pierce-type. Take a protege like Rondo, and in general grow up.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1703 on: January 05, 2019, 07:13:22 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Every nba player hates playing with butler

He’s like a Demarcus cousins type in the way that teammates don’t like playing with the guy.
I always thought DMC clashed with staff more than teammates, but I think the main difference is that Cousins has all the talent in the world, whereas Butler is a B+ guy who thinks he's an A - A+ guy

In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Guy is feisty, and plays with an edge, and does all the right things while playing - defense, rebounding, hustle. He's like a bigger, more offensively refined Marcus Smart.

Maybe as his career winds down, he could reel it in and become a Pierce-type. Take a protege like Rondo, and in general grow up.
I'm just of the opinion that he thinks he's more talented than he really is. Quarreling with guys more gifted than him (like KAT) or with coaches about touches in the face of guys more gifted than him (like Embiid), or just quarreling with other teammates in general.

He doesn't seem to be a genuine leader. IIRC, he even says in interviews that he dislikes it when guys don't train like he does. Newsflash Jimmy, but not everyone is the same as you. A true leader acknowledges the differences in guys, as opposed to believing everyone should behave as they do. That's where I see a big difference between he and Smart, who knows his place and thrives alongside his teammates, yet is still able to keep them in check when need be
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1704 on: January 05, 2019, 09:39:07 AM »

Offline moiso

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I guess it’s safe to say now that Butler is officially a jerk.  I do like his game and his on court personality reminds me of KG, but he’s causing team chemistry issues way too quickly nowadays.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1705 on: January 05, 2019, 09:39:24 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Let me help you he is a prima dona malcontent.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1706 on: January 05, 2019, 11:18:18 AM »

Online BringToughnessBack

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Quote
In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Let me help you he is a prima dona malcontent.

Seems like Danny and Brad are staying as far away as possible from malcontents. Cousins did not get offer when first traded and The rumored interest of us in Butler never materialized as well. Maybe the fact that Leonard did not get along with the well run Spurs franchise and Pop, led to him not going after him too. Although it did sounds like we tried to get Cousins this year as free agent but he chose GSW but at least that would have been relatively risk free for a one year flyer and no players traded.

Watch Butler end up on the Knicks next year. 

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1707 on: January 05, 2019, 11:27:02 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I guess it’s safe to say now that Butler is officially a jerk.  I do like his game and his on court personality reminds me of KG, but he’s causing team chemistry issues way too quickly nowadays.

He could be on his way out of the league if he cant stop yapping

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1708 on: January 05, 2019, 11:38:47 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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In contrast to others here, I am quite a fan of Butler as a person and as a player - maybe I'm missing something.

Let me help you he is a prima dona malcontent.

Early on I really was high on him , seemed to overcome alot . He got the BIG HEAD with success and now is pretty much your description

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1709 on: January 05, 2019, 11:48:38 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Butler acts no different than guys like MJ, Kobe, LeBron...it's just that Jimmy doesn't quite have the talent to get away with acting like those guys.

I've always liked and supported him, but it's getting to the point now where I wouldn't want him on my team.. I'm not sure he's willing to accept that he is a supporting star, not a leading star.