Weekend Dime: East scout calls Rondo East's best PG

[BballTim]

He was pretty ordinary tonight. I doubt he makes the team to be honest. Rondo's defenes is all steals and gambles. He doesn't do a stellar job keeping guys in front of him. It's not a big deal as really no PG can. But I don't think defense at the PG spot is 'half the game'. The PG is the QB of the offense - so his role really is more about running the offense and setting guys up.

Now at the center spot - defense is probably more then half a center's value.

  Rondo's opposing PER is 14.9 and opposing PGs are shooting about 46$ against him with 7 assists and 4 turnovers per 48 minutes. Those are very good numbers, and aren't based on gambling and steals. He also does a good job in transition defense as well as causing opponents to get into their sets later in the shot clock.

[ma11l]

He was pretty ordinary tonight. I doubt he makes the team to be honest. Rondo's defenes is all steals and gambles. He doesn't do a stellar job keeping guys in front of him. It's not a big deal as really no PG can. But I don't think defense at the PG spot is 'half the game'. The PG is the QB of the offense - so his role really is more about running the offense and setting guys up.

Now at the center spot - defense is probably more then half a center's value.

  Rondo's opposing PER is 14.9 and opposing PGs are shooting about 46$ against him with 7 assists and 4 turnovers per 48 minutes. Those are very good numbers, and aren't based on gambling and steals. He also does a good job in transition defense as well as causing opponents to get into their sets later in the shot clock.

I think Rondo fits perfectly into this defense.  You can see the difference when House is on the floor.  I know if I was running the opposing team's offense I'd be relieved when I saw House checking in for Rondo.

His speed, quickness, and long arms will lead to many steals when he takes the risks to get them.  With Perk and KG and our great help and rotations he is allowed to go after the ball.

[Sweet17]

 

Rondo's opposing PER is 14.9 and opposing PGs are shooting about 46$ against him with 7 assists and 4 turnovers per 48 minutes. Those are very good numbers, and aren't based on gambling and steals. He also does a good job in transition defense as well as causing opponents to get into their sets later in the shot clock.

Not really. 15PER is normalized to be league average. So that would equate to average. <g> It's part of the stat.

Don't get me wrong - Rondo is a good defender for PG. The problem is PG's can't stop each other. They are too quick and the offensive advantage is too much.

Honestly, both D. Rose and Devin Harris are much better players right now - those guys get automatic double and sometimes triple teams. Rondo gets entirely ignored and barely scores 10 points a game. That scout needs to get his eyes examined. I trade for those two today. I suspect the scount meant "pure" PG - as in a guy who looks to be pass first. Those PGs have been on the way out for years as it hurts the team when your PG passes up open shots.

Rondo is a great fit for our team as he is never going to demand max salary and willingly defers to the big 3 (which is great for chemistry). His long arms and speed really help our D. But this idea that he is some game changing defender and thus should be ranked ahead of superior scoring PGs is nonsense. He isn't even the best small defender on this team. Tony Allen is much better defensively. His PER against at SG is 11.4.

Pete

[Atzar]

Rondo's opposing PER is 14.9 and opposing PGs are shooting about 46$ against him with 7 assists and 4 turnovers per 48 minutes. Those are very good numbers, and aren't based on gambling and steals. He also does a good job in transition defense as well as causing opponents to get into their sets later in the shot clock.

Not really. 15PER is normalized to be league average. So that would equate to average. <g> It's part of the stat.

Don't get me wrong - Rondo is a good defender for PG. The problem is PG's can't stop each other. They are too quick and the offensive advantage is too much.

Honestly, both D. Rose and Devin Harris are much better players right now - those guys get automatic double and sometimes triple teams. Rondo gets entirely ignored and barely scores 10 points a game. That scout needs to get his eyes examined. I trade for those two today. I suspect the scount meant "pure" PG - as in a guy who looks to be pass first. Those PGs have been on the way out for years as it hurts the team when your PG passes up open shots.

Rondo is a great fit for our team as he is never going to demand max salary and willingly defers to the big 3 (which is great for chemistry). His long arms and speed really help our D. But this idea that he is some game changing defender and thus should be ranked ahead of superior scoring PGs is nonsense. He isn't even the best small defender on this team. Tony Allen is much better defensively. His PER against at SG is 11.4.

Pete

The thing that makes Rondo's defense very good is that he holds his man to league average while simultaneously being 4th in the NBA in steals per game.  Even when he gets stopped by a pick or beaten on the drive, he's pretty good at tapping the ball away from behind. 

Basketball Reference has him third in Defensive Win Shares behind Dwight Howard and Garnett.  He's fourth in defensive rating behind those two plus Ben Wallace.  Yes, these stats can be partially attributed to the teams overall superb defense.  At the same time, I don't think it's fair to look at some of the stats without looking at all of the stats. 

It might also be worth noting that he's the only PG not named Jason Kidd to be in the Top 20 in either of these statistics.

[BballTim]

Rondo's opposing PER is 14.9 and opposing PGs are shooting about 46$ against him with 7 assists and 4 turnovers per 48 minutes. Those are very good numbers, and aren't based on gambling and steals. He also does a good job in transition defense as well as causing opponents to get into their sets later in the shot clock.

Not really. 15PER is normalized to be league average. So that would equate to average. <g> It's part of the stat.

  15.0 PER is normalized to the league average, not the league average for starters. The average PER for starting PGs is well above 15.0. Almost all of the starting PGs in the league have higher opposing PERs than Rondo. Like it or not, Rondo's one of the best defensive PGs in the league.

[Sweet17]

15.0 PER is normalized to the league average, not the league average for starters. The average PER for starting PGs is well above 15.0. Almost all of the starting PGs in the league have higher opposing PERs than Rondo. Like it or not, Rondo's one of the best defensive PGs in the league.

First off I said Rondo's defense for a PG is pretty good. But claiming that the PER of 14.9 is a "very good" number is disengious. It's help defense and steals that makes him good not his one on one defense. And I claimed that his defense is not so great it elevates him above someone like D. Rose.

D. Rose PER against is 13.3. So honestly that stat does little for your argument. Like I said if you believe that Rondo is better then someone like D. Rose who faces double teams and is the only good player on his team (imagine how that would suck) your an unredeemable homer.

Rondo gets to lead a Ferrari of a team - and Rose gets ...Deng? Rondo is leading a team with 3 of the 8 top ten active scorers in the NBA! On the same team! That might help a guys assist numbers ya think?

This is why GP is being a bit of dick and going ballastic on Rondo. Rondo is a very good player but he is not better then those guys right now. Rondo is ahead of Harris on defense but you can't ignore a 29.9 PER (holy crap)..

And Rose is a better man defender - and a MUCH better scorer. I'd say court vision wise he right there with Rondo as he has such inferior finishers.

[Edgar]

Rondo gets to lead a Ferrari of a team - and Rose gets

This is why GP is being a bit of dick and going ballastic on Rondo. Rondo is a very good player but he is not better then those guys right now. Rondo is ahead of Harris on defense but you can't ignore a 29.9 PER (holy crap)..

And Rose is a better man defender - and a MUCH better scorer. I'd say court vision wise he right there with Rondo as he has such inferior finishers.

Some nights I can disagree with you
but some I cant
Anyway i just want to congratulate u for the Ferrari of a team comment
simply brilliant

[Birdbrain]

15.0 PER is normalized to the league average, not the league average for starters. The average PER for starting PGs is well above 15.0. Almost all of the starting PGs in the league have higher opposing PERs than Rondo. Like it or not, Rondo's one of the best defensive PGs in the league.

First off I said Rondo's defense for a PG is pretty good. But claiming that the PER of 14.9 is a "very good" number is disengious. It's help defense and steals that makes him good not his one on one defense. And I claimed that his defense is not so great it elevates him above someone like D. Rose.

D. Rose PER against is 13.3. So honestly that stat does little for your argument. Like I said if you believe that Rondo is better then someone like D. Rose who faces double teams and is the only good player on his team (imagine how that would suck) your an unredeemable homer.

Rondo gets to lead a Ferrari of a team - and Rose gets ...Deng? Rondo is leading a team with 3 of the 8 top ten active scorers in the NBA! On the same team! That might help a guys assist numbers ya think?

This is why GP is being a bit of dick and going ballastic on Rondo. Rondo is a very good player but he is not better then those guys right now. Rondo is ahead of Harris on defense but you can't ignore a 29.9 PER (holy crap)..

And Rose is a better man defender - and a MUCH better scorer. I'd say court vision wise he right there with Rondo as he has such inferior finishers.

GP .. Do the Ferrari's also score most of the points, grab a lot of rebounds, and dish out a lot of assists?  Cause if they did Rondo's per might drop.  Oh and GP Rose doesn't have anywhere near the court vision Rondo has.

[BballTim]

15.0 PER is normalized to the league average, not the league average for starters. The average PER for starting PGs is well above 15.0. Almost all of the starting PGs in the league have higher opposing PERs than Rondo. Like it or not, Rondo's one of the best defensive PGs in the league.

First off I said Rondo's defense for a PG is pretty good. But claiming that the PER of 14.9 is a "very good" number is disengious. It's help defense and steals that makes him good not his one on one defense.

  What you said (that I responded to) was "Rondo's defenes is all steals and gambles. He doesn't do a stellar job keeping guys in front of him". I didn't realize that was supposed to mean "pretty good". It's also not true, unless you think that steals and gambles result in a low fg% for your opponent. It's not disingenuous to claim that 14.9 is a "very good" number. You don't seem to have a good understanding of the average PER or opposing PER for the average starter in the league.

  If 14.9 isn't a very good opposing PER, you can probably find 10 or so staring PGs with better numbers, right?

D. Rose PER against is 13.3. So honestly that stat does little for your argument. Like I said if you believe that Rondo is better then someone like D. Rose who faces double teams and is the only good player on his team (imagine how that would suck) your an unredeemable homer.

  Did I compare Rondo to Rose anywhere in my argument? Did I comment on Rose's defense anywhere? You just imagine that anyone who disagrees with you is an unredeemable homer. Aside from the scout in the article, Hollinger had Rondo rated as the best defensive PG last year and 2nd best the year before. Is he also an unredeemable homer?

[Sweet17]

What you said (that I responded to) was "Rondo's defenes is all steals and gambles. He doesn't do a stellar job keeping guys in front of him". I didn't realize that was supposed to mean "pretty good". It's also not true, unless you think that steals and gambles result in a low fg% for your opponent. It's not disingenuous to claim that 14.9 is a "very good" number. You don't seem to have a good understanding of the average PER or opposing PER for the average starter in the league.

Not stellar doesn't equal horrible when it comes to keep guys in front of him. It's - not stellar. <g> Holding guys to league average PER doesn't exactly counter that argument now does it?

Did I compare Rondo to Rose anywhere in my argument? Did I comment on Rose's defense anywhere? You just imagine that anyone who disagrees with you is an unredeemable homer. Aside from the scout in the article, Hollinger had Rondo rated as the best defensive PG last year and 2nd best the year before. Is he also an unredeemable homer?

Learn to read. I said IF.. As IF you think that Rondo is better then D. Rose you are an unredeemable homer. I didn't call you an unredeemable homer. I am calling you a bad reader.

Pete

[BballTim]

What you said (that I responded to) was "Rondo's defenes is all steals and gambles. He doesn't do a stellar job keeping guys in front of him". I didn't realize that was supposed to mean "pretty good". It's also not true, unless you think that steals and gambles result in a low fg% for your opponent. It's not disingenuous to claim that 14.9 is a "very good" number. You don't seem to have a good understanding of the average PER or opposing PER for the average starter in the league.

Not stellar doesn't equal horrible when it comes to keep guys in front of him. It's - not stellar. <g> Holding guys to league average PER doesn't exactly counter that argument now does it?

  It doesn't counter it if as is clearly the case for you) you don't understand what that means. Average means average for all players, both starters and reserves. The average starter has a PER well above 15. If you check the numbers for the other starting PGs you'll notice that A) the average PER for a starting PG would be well over 15, so holding them to under 15 would be good, and that B) most of the other PGs have a higer opposing PER than Rondo. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not clear.

Did I compare Rondo to Rose anywhere in my argument? Did I comment on Rose's defense anywhere? You just imagine that anyone who disagrees with you is an unredeemable homer. Aside from the scout in the article, Hollinger had Rondo rated as the best defensive PG last year and 2nd best the year before. Is he also an unredeemable homer?

Learn to read. I said IF.. As IF you think that Rondo is better then D. Rose you are an unredeemable homer. I didn't call you an unredeemable homer. I am calling you a bad reader.

Pete

  Honestly, that's pathetically weak. I guess nobody will ever be able to figure out that you were making up arguments of mine to try and prop up your point.

[indeedproceed]

Cut out the personal attacks. Official warning.
-IP

[cornbreadsmart]

this is why i hate hollinger's stuff. all these per 48 minute type stats are just used for people to argue points back and forth. anyone else despise the per 48 minute crud?

[BrickJames]

I never, ever, ever see a pick set for Rondo on the high post.  Why?! 

The High Post is KG's bread and butter, Rondo got no right being there! 

Exactly why KG should be setting Rondo picks on the high post!  Pick and pop, pick and roll, pick and delayed roll for an oop (which they are mastering to perfection when KG isn't held cutting to the lane a-la the end of the Indiana game).  Pierce slashes weakside...Ray spots up for three...Perk stands there and/or decks someone for good measure...

The opportunities are endless!

[guava_wrench]

What you said (that I responded to) was "Rondo's defenes is all steals and gambles. He doesn't do a stellar job keeping guys in front of him". I didn't realize that was supposed to mean "pretty good". It's also not true, unless you think that steals and gambles result in a low fg% for your opponent. It's not disingenuous to claim that 14.9 is a "very good" number. You don't seem to have a good understanding of the average PER or opposing PER for the average starter in the league.

Not stellar doesn't equal horrible when it comes to keep guys in front of him. It's - not stellar. <g> Holding guys to league average PER doesn't exactly counter that argument now does it?

Did I compare Rondo to Rose anywhere in my argument? Did I comment on Rose's defense anywhere? You just imagine that anyone who disagrees with you is an unredeemable homer. Aside from the scout in the article, Hollinger had Rondo rated as the best defensive PG last year and 2nd best the year before. Is he also an unredeemable homer?

Learn to read. I said IF.. As IF you think that Rondo is better then D. Rose you are an unredeemable homer. I didn't call you an unredeemable homer. I am calling you a bad reader.

Pete

If anyone disagrees with me, they must be biased. Classic argument.