Jabari Bird arrested

[SparzWizard]

The Celtics need to set an example and release Jabari Bird immediately.

[tarheelsxxiii]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue. 

[nickagneta]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

[Eddie20]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

It stated in the police report that Bird's jealously is what started everything.

[tarheelsxxiii]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability. 

[playdream]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

But those guys don't have a seizure attack when they do evil things, you need an unhealthy brain to make that happen

[playdream]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

It stated in the police report that Bird's jealously is what started everything.

Said his girlfriend right? i mean otherwise why the cops will know what starts the evens?
when she called the police the event was over.

[Roy H.]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.

[playdream]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.

This is both true and false, when you put enough mental stress on human brain it will become mentaly ill
so those are illness but also normal human brain function         

[Neurotic Guy]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.

It may be true that everyone, at least at some point in their life, meets diagnostic criteria for something. But most won’t  meet criteria for psychosis, character disorder, or other major MH issues (PTSD, Major Depression, bipolar, severe anxiety).  True that toxic stress can exacerbate or create severe symptoms in anyone. I generally agree with you that mental health issues (with a few exceptions) can’t eliminate culpability/ accountability.  However, certainly mental health factors can (in some cases) provide a mitigating factor that could impact sentencing or type of intervention. Society is sometimes better off (depending on the crime and circumstances) to provide treatment in lieu of a pure punishment model.

[Roy H.]

Society is sometimes better off (depending on the crime and circumstances) to provide treatment in lieu of a pure punishment model.

I think that’s true for many non-violent crimes — especially first offenses — and our justice system is overall very poor at handling both substance abuse and mental illness. 

But, for extremely violent crimes, I think incapacitation is still generally the best policy.

It’s interesting to ponder intellectually: Should one bad choice (or string of choices) define somebody’s life? Is Jabari garbage because he completely lost control of his rage and did something sadistic?

Philosophically, I say no. My experience tells me lock some of these guys up. I’ve represented guys who have tortured their own father; tore their pregnant girlfriend’s eyeball out and left it on the floor; and broke into a home to rape a young boy.  In these instances, each struggled with issues that effected their judgment: substance abuse, schizophrenia, and pedophelia.  In all three cases, incapacitation (prison; institutionalization; prison) was all a prosecutor and judge would agree to (despite my best efforts), and in all three cases incapacitation was probably right.

[bogg]

I mean, there are a lot of plausible scenarios where some aspects of what we've heard so far turn out to be exaggerated, misleading or false. There are virtually no plausible scenarios where it turns out Bird did nothing wrong.

As if to reiterate my point. Once again - wanting to know what caused someone to behave in a certain way is not in itself an endorsement (or acceptance) of that behavior.

It stated in the police report that Bird's jealously is what started everything.

I'm pretty sure nobody's wondering what they were fighting about, that's pretty obvious.

[tarheelsxxiii]

So he goes bonkers, basically tortures the girl, then has a mental breakdown and a seizure? He's not going to be on the Cs any longer but there's definitely something else going on there, wether it's mental or pharmaceutical or whatever. Either this guy has seriously bad mental issues or he did some super hard stuff that did no go well. Not condoning his actions in any way. Just saying something has to go wrong for that entire episode to happen.

This is extremely, extremely speculative and should be taken with huge amounts of salt but the kinds of reactions - the violence and suicidality but especially the powerful anxiety and frequent seizures followed by passing out - that are being described sound like some of the extreme cases of people overdosing on synthetic marijuana (spice, K2, etc). Especially if there's a pre-existing mental issue there.

Again there's zero evidence that this is the case, it just comes to mind as consistent with what's being reported.

My impression too.  Sounds like a psychotic episode that was either initiated or exacerbated by drug use -- spice, cocaine, k2, etc.  May have also been a prescription overdose, like a benzodiazepine.  Sad story if true, but your gut instinct is familiar for inpatient psych admissions.  I feel terrible for her, but if we are right (and I suspect you're always right), for him as well .

Assault and battery, kidnapping, and strangulation are not typical of a psychotic episode.

Extreme forms of violence in the context of psychosis are much more common than you would think.  Part time, I've recently starting conducting the psychodiagnostic and suicide risk assessments for newly admitted patients to a state psychiatric hospital, and you'd be surprised by what patients present with.  I agree with you that there's a lot of variability - some patients are actively psychotic for months and pleasant to work with, while others experience command hallucinations that drive them to inflict serious injury to themselves or others in unfathomable ways.  Keep in mind that many psychotic patients are experiencing the world outside of their own body, to the extent that self-harm behaviors intended just to "feel something" result in an unintentional suicide.

Earlier in the thread, I did float that it sounded like a first time psychotic episode.  I believe it does even more now, but we won't ever have enough information to move beyond loose speculation.  That said, people don't commit acts like this without a mental health issue.

The bolded just isn't true. Most domestic violence are crimes of passion or the result of a chronic violent abuser without mental illness issues. In many cases it's just learned behavior from growing up in such an environment. Also, people in crime gangs do much worse things than this without mental issues. Fact is, some people are just evil and that has nothing to do with mental health.

I don't see how the two can be separated.  Yes, someone growing up in that environment is likely to commit similar acts; the vast majority of folks with significant issues have trauma history -- it's a huge risk factor for everything.  But that doesn't parse mental health from the contributing factors, right?  The last thing I'd want to do is stigmatize folks (including myself) with mental health issues, but nearly everyone meets criteria for something, let alone that level of violence.  I think we may be splitting hairs because this issue always moves into the realm of accountability.

If everybody meets criteria for something, doesn't that suggest that they're not ill at all, but rather acting consistently with how the human brain functions?

I think we each have different tolerances for things.  Is the ability to severely injure, or even kill, another human a sign of being mentally ill?  I don't think it is, necessarily.  Look at our soldiers.  Killing others may cause severe mental anguish for many, but does the act itself mean they were suffering from mental illness at the time they pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb?  I don't think that it does.

But, the real question does indeed come down to accountability and culpability.  My guess is that this is due to rage, rather than psychosis.

The comment was intended to illustrate how unlikely it is that Bird doesn't have a mental health issue relative to a population of people that have strengths and weaknesses that will land them somewhere along the short end of the spectrum on some trait/behavior/etc.  But I agree with your larger point that a classification loses its luster and meaningfulness fairly quickly.

Nope, I think a lot of people are capable of taking another life without a contributing mental health issue.  Your example of soldiers in combat is a good one - no instinct is stronger than self-preservation - and I'm sure that are plenty of parents/mothers that would commit murder to protect their children.

The question of accountability and culpability is an interesting one because you and I are coming from completely opposite ends of the spectrum - my job is to treat people that commit such acts as patients, which requires a lot of effort at times, while yours (public defender?) handles the legal aspects when the crime (rather than etiology) is assessed, and the patient stands to pay the piper.  Bird should be held accountable for his actions, though I likely sympathize with the offender to a much different degree.  And it's probably in everyone's best interests to have strong proponents on each side.

[Roy H.]

(public defender?)

Close enough. We don’t have a public defender system here in Maine. Rather, private attorneys take court appointments for criminal defense, which makes up a fairly large percentage of my practice.

[tarheelsxxiii]

(public defender?)

Close enough. We don’t have a public defender system here in Maine. Rather, private attorneys take court appointments for criminal defense, which makes up a fairly large percentage of my practice.

Is there a mental health court in Maine?