Ime doesn't looks as good without top tier talent.

[Roy H.]

Joe would never quit on the Celtics the way Ime did. Here's my list of people who just quit on the Celtics: Kyrie, Ime, Ray Allen, and Mark Blount.

For some reason, Ime is held in high regard after what he did (harassed a Celtics employee) and given the benefit of a doubt by some.

Not only harassed but continued to do so after he was warned.

But it was consensual if I recalled. Ther w a whole thread of this somewhere in this forum tho lol

Consensual harassment? He got suspended from the team.

The last thing management wanted to do was get rid of their first year coach after going to the finals. He forced their hand, in addition to being forceful with her.

Yeah, he forced the issue. It just makes me mad when I read comments about how they miss him. He forced his way out! No one to blame but Ime. Ime came in and made the worst of a great situation. Joe came into a bad situation and made the best of it. That's character. Joe has it. Ime doesn't.

Joe's "character":  choking a woman; fighting with police; public intoxication

Wasn't Joe underage, not a 46 year old man? Joe also wasn't a head coach. I see a big difference.

He wasn't underage, no.  He was an adult.  He wasn't 21 yet, though.

He also had three illegal incidents.  Ime had none.

So, let's not talk about character.  Joe skated and avoided consequences because he was connected and played basketball.

[green_bballers13]

Joe would never quit on the Celtics the way Ime did. Here's my list of people who just quit on the Celtics: Kyrie, Ime, Ray Allen, and Mark Blount.

For some reason, Ime is held in high regard after what he did (harassed a Celtics employee) and given the benefit of a doubt by some.

Not only harassed but continued to do so after he was warned.

But it was consensual if I recalled. Ther w a whole thread of this somewhere in this forum tho lol

Consent can be retracted though.

Allegedly it was consensual, but he harassed her once she broke it off.

The report was that he continued to pursue a relationship. I'm sure that Ime isn't the first person in the history of the world to try to reconcile after things have been broken off in a relationship.

He's stupid for dating a subordinate, but that doesn't make him a predator.

I haven't seen anyone trying to downplay Joe's actions from the past. His actions were horrible and should not be minimized.

I see no reason why Ime should get the benefit of a doubt and have his actions minimized. He put that young woman and the Celtics in a bad position. Men forcing themselves onto women in the workplace is not good. Choking women is not good. It is all bad.

[RJ87]

Joe would never quit on the Celtics the way Ime did. Here's my list of people who just quit on the Celtics: Kyrie, Ime, Ray Allen, and Mark Blount.

For some reason, Ime is held in high regard after what he did (harassed a Celtics employee) and given the benefit of a doubt by some.

Not only harassed but continued to do so after he was warned.

But it was consensual if I recalled. Ther w a whole thread of this somewhere in this forum tho lol

Consent can be retracted though.

Allegedly it was consensual, but he harassed her once she broke it off.

The report was that he continued to pursue a relationship. I'm sure that Ime isn't the first person in the history of the world to try to reconcile after things have been broken off in a relationship.

He's stupid for dating a subordinate, but that doesn't make him a predator.

I haven't seen anyone trying to downplay Joe's actions from the past. His actions were horrible and should not be minimized.

I see no reason why Ime should get the benefit of a doubt and have his actions minimized. He put that young woman and the Celtics in a bad position. Men forcing themselves onto women in the workplace is not good. Choking women is not good. It is all bad.

TP. I don't see either one having the moral high ground here.

[liam]

I didn't want this to be about something Joe did 20 years ago but defending Ime is a full-time job!

[Moranis]

Houston has already won more games this year than they did all of last year.  Not sure this thread has any merit.

With much more talent. Houston should be a playoff team with that roster...

No they shouldn't. They are very young. 

Their over/under was 31.5 wins.  This was not a team that was projected to do much of anything, because they are so young.

[Goldstar88]

Joe would never quit on the Celtics the way Ime did. Here's my list of people who just quit on the Celtics: Kyrie, Ime, Ray Allen, and Mark Blount.

For some reason, Ime is held in high regard after what he did (harassed a Celtics employee) and given the benefit of a doubt by some.

Not only harassed but continued to do so after he was warned.

But it was consensual if I recalled. Ther w a whole thread of this somewhere in this forum tho lol

Consensual harassment? He got suspended from the team.

The last thing management wanted to do was get rid of their first year coach after going to the finals. He forced their hand, in addition to being forceful with her.

Yeah, he forced the issue. It just makes me mad when I read comments about how they miss him. He forced his way out! No one to blame but Ime. Ime came in and made the worst of a great situation. Joe came into a bad situation and made the best of it. That's character. Joe has it. Ime doesn't.

Joe's "character":  choking a woman; fighting with police; public intoxication

Wasn't Joe underage, not a 46 year old man? Joe also wasn't a head coach. I see a big difference.

I don't see age as an excuse, but I do think people can evolve and change. I hope Joe's sought help and counseling over the past 15 years.

Not an excuse but a big difference. A teenager vs a 46 year old head coach.

Joe was young and intoxicated during his transgressions. Doesn’t excuse the behavior; but It is different. I’d imagine this is a big reason why he doesn’t drink. I don’t recall reading that Ime was intoxicated at the time, and he certainly wasn’t young/naive.

[liam]

Houston has already won more games this year than they did all of last year.  Not sure this thread has any merit.

With much more talent. Houston should be a playoff team with that roster...

No they shouldn't. They are very young. 

Their over/under was 31.5 wins.  This was not a team that was projected to do much of anything, because they are so young.

Brooks
VanVleet
Jeff Green
Landale
Bullock

I won't count Adams cause he won't play this year



And Şengün is playing like a star.

They have enough to be a playoff team.

[Kernewek]

Houston has already won more games this year than they did all of last year.  Not sure this thread has any merit.

With much more talent. Houston should be a playoff team with that roster...

No they shouldn't. They are very young. 

Their over/under was 31.5 wins.  This was not a team that was projected to do much of anything, because they are so young.

This is where I fall. Ime might be a better than average coach, he might not be, but the performance of the rockets this year by record won’t say much either way.

[jpotter33]

In other breaking news: water is wet!

As others have said, don't think this post has any merit. Houston is significantly improved over last year with the 6th rated defensive rating in the league after being 29th (!) last year, despite still probably having bottom 10 level talent. Joe simply doesn't have any way to compare his ability to coach less talent given both (a) how green he is, and (b) the fact that he's never coached a team without top 5 talent.

The fact of the matter is that Ime turned a dysfunctional, first round exit team with significantly less talent into a competitive Finals team that was likely 4 minutes from a title if we didn't wilt down the stretch in game four, which was largely due to a lack of overall offensive talent or at least the inexperience/youth of our offensive talent. With a significantly more talented team and more stable foundation coming off a Finals run - admittedly notwithstanding with the Ime suspension issues - Joe led the team to nearly being swept by a 8 seed and not even making the Finals, which in large part was due to his limited offensive philosophy. Further, despite having enormous advantages over every other team in our overall record/losses, advanced stats, net rating, etc., most national NBA pundits and experts are still hesitant to choose the Celtics as the favorite or their selection to win the title, with Joe's coaching inexperience and overall extreme three point offensive philosophy the main concerns that are shared for their hesitance to deem the C's their pick.

Until Joe demonstrates otherwise in the playoffs or on a much less talented team, he's clearly an inferior coach to Ime. Such a shame that Ime couldn't keep it in his pants.

[green_bballers13]

All of this "character" stuff (as if we should all be judged by our worst actions) is tangential. Second row Joe would still be an assistant coach if Ime listened to "no" while at work.

As far as Celtics fans are concerned, Joe's previous sins haven't affected the product on the court. It's strange that those Ime supporters have transferred their angst/blame to his replacement.

As far as I'm concerned, Ime's team lost a championship series to GS because the Warriors played better than the Celtics players. The same can be said for last year's Heat team. Blaming the coach is the easiest option.

[Moranis]

Houston has already won more games this year than they did all of last year.  Not sure this thread has any merit.

With much more talent. Houston should be a playoff team with that roster...

No they shouldn't. They are very young. 

Their over/under was 31.5 wins.  This was not a team that was projected to do much of anything, because they are so young.

Brooks
VanVleet
Jeff Green
Landale
Bullock

I won't count Adams cause he won't play this year



And Şengün is playing like a star.

They have enough to be a playoff team.

Again, Vegas put their o/u at 31.5 wins.  You are letting your hate of Ime cloud your judgment on this one.  The Rockets are not a good team, but it has nothing to do with the coach, it has to do with a young roster that isn't very good yet. 

[jpotter33]

I agree. Rockets are now 6 games under .500 with a much improved roster over the one they had last year. Their defense is good not great, offense is poor. He’s very overrated, IMO.

Lol.

The Rockets' "good not great" defense is 6th in the league in defensive rating, up from 29th (!) last year. And their "much improved roster" is VanVleet, Brooks, and a rookie Thompson - crazy improvements! The team is projected to beat their initial expected win total by 5-6 games this year; Ime has done a pretty good job in Houston thus far.

Clearly an objective, unbiased take here.

[jambr380]

I generally agree for this year, but last year I think Ime would have had an edge on Joe as a 2nd year coach with Boston coming off a Finals appearance. Unfortunately, it was a REALLY important year where we were favored to win the Title.

I don’t think Joe sucks, and I think he has generally settled in pretty well, but we lost a great chance a Title last year and we can’t get that back. Please please please let us win this year.

[RJ87]

In other breaking news: water is wet!

As others have said, don't think this post has any merit. Houston is significantly improved over last year with the 6th rated defensive rating in the league after being 29th (!) last year, despite still probably having bottom 10 level talent. Joe simply doesn't have any way to compare his ability to coach less talent given both (a) how green he is, and (b) the fact that he's never coached a team without top 5 talent.

The fact of the matter is that Ime turned a dysfunctional, first round exit team with significantly less talent into a competitive Finals team that was likely 4 minutes from a title if we didn't wilt down the stretch in game four, which was largely due to a lack of overall offensive talent or at least the inexperience/youth of our offensive talent. With a significantly more talented team and more stable foundation coming off a Finals run - admittedly notwithstanding with the Ime suspension issues - Joe led the team to nearly being swept by a 8 seed and not even making the Finals, which in large part was due to his limited offensive philosophy. Further, despite having enormous advantages over every other team in our overall record/losses, advanced stats, net rating, etc., most national NBA pundits and experts are still hesitant to choose the Celtics as the favorite or their selection to win the title, with Joe's coaching inexperience and overall extreme three point offensive philosophy the main concerns that are shared for their hesitance to deem the C's their pick.

Until Joe demonstrates otherwise in the playoffs or on a much less talented team, he's clearly an inferior coach to Ime. Such a shame that Ime couldn't keep it in his pants.

I'm not really into the coach wars diatribe, but this seems like an attempt to undermine Joe. No, he didn't get as far in the playoffs under him last season but you can argue that we were a Jayson Tatum ankle sprain away from pulling off a historic comeback to get to the finals. Joe was thrown into a fire on the cusp of preseason with no time to prepare, but with a full offseason we currently have the best record in the league.

It's also not lost on me that the Ime situation could've tanked quite a few locker rooms and last year might've easily been a lost season ala the final Kyrie year. Instead, it was mostly business as usual with championship expectations. I think the coach deserves some credit for that.

[Goldstar88]

I agree. Rockets are now 6 games under .500 with a much improved roster over the one they had last year. Their defense is good not great, offense is poor. He’s very overrated, IMO.

Lol.

The Rockets' "good not great" defense is 6th in the league in defensive rating, up from 29th (!) last year. And their "much improved roster" is VanVleet, Brooks, and a rookie Thompson - crazy improvements! The team is projected to beat their initial expected win total by 5-6 games this year; Ime has done a pretty good job in Houston thus far.

Clearly an objective, unbiased take here.

ESPN has them tied for 10th with Chicago. Like I said… Good not great. I get that you hate Joe and can’t be objective, though. Even though you say your are. Lol.  Ime good, Joe bad…