CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Tr1boy on November 10, 2017, 12:42:29 PM
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My list
Tatum
Brown
Smart
Rozier
Morris
Baynes
Semi
Theis
Yours?
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Smart
Has been great on defense. Has made huge plays. Been great passing, working well with everyone from Theis with the alley oops to running some plays while Kyrie is more off ball. He has been good on the boards. He has been making an impact with his post game (I have been joking he will soon be Adrian Dantely).
Still very underrated on defense most of all.
Brown/Tatum
At the moment they are so neck and neck, but soon Tatum could jump above everyone here. Brown has been up and down shooting, but has rebounded and defended and shot the 3 well.
Jayson has been solid all along for the most part and he looks like he can start really scoring the ball when he starts getting it more, and getting comfortable shooting it more.
At the same time, Jaylen can really jump up a level if he starts finishing at the rim more consistently and figuring out a few things on offense.
Even as a big Smart guy, I think clearly either one of these guys and probably both will be better soon, even though Smart has looked good. Not an insult to him. I'm sure a lot of others would already think so but again I think Smart's defense keeps him up there for me at the top.
Baynes
I was high on him and he has delivered.
Morris
Has had some down moments a bit but also looked really good at others. I like his ability to make something happen off the dribble a bit, which this team needs without Hayward.
Rozier
Working well and settling into a role as basically a backup SG.
Theis
Very solid back up big man.
Semi
Impressive start. Great defense and potential for a nice offensive player too.
Larkin
Yabu
Nader
Nader is the only one I haven't anything of. Yabu is not ready but he physically is very interesting.
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Right now? You're sleeping on Morris, who is probably the fourth best and most consistent player right now behind the Big 3. That's mostly just due to him being a solid vet, too.
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Not going by potential talent but by the contributions they are giving to the team this year
Brown
Tatum
Smart
Baynes
Morris
Rozier
Theis
Ojeleye
Larkin
Nader
Yabusele
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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time. Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch? This means there's no guarantee of a competent coach and/or system. Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.
1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system. His durability up until this season has also been impressive.
2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot. Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.
3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter. He would be an asset on any team in the league. I also believe that his effort is contagious.
4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system. Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team. Durability would also be a concern. As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team.
5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins. Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored. The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.
6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.
7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game. Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper. He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.
8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us. Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.
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Smart
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Semi
Larkin
Nader
Bird
Yabo
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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time. Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch? This means there's no guarantee of a competent coach and/or system. Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.
1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system. His durability up until this season has also been impressive.
2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot. Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.
3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter. He would be an asset on any team in the league. I also believe that his effort is contagious.
4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system. Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team. Durability would also be a concern. As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team.
5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins. Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored. The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.
6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.
7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game. Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper. He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.
8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us. Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.
Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row
Cant say the same without Tatum
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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time. Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch? This means there's no guarantee of a competent coach and/or system. Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.
1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system. His durability up until this season has also been impressive.
2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot. Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.
3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter. He would be an asset on any team in the league. I also believe that his effort is contagious.
4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system. Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team. Durability would also be a concern. As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team.
5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins. Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored. The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.
6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.
7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game. Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper. He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.
8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us. Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.
Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row
Cant say the same without Tatum
I clarified my criteria before ranking the players. I said Brown and Tatum were 1 and 2 within the context of our team. However I ranked these players under the assumption that we were starting from scratch for one season only. The rankings are more fun when we remove the Celtics from the equation. I'm not sure Tatum could be plugged into any system and thrive instantly. Durability is also a concern for a 19 year old.
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I'll bite, but I'm gonna do it in tiers.
Tier 1: Al, Kyrie, Hayward
A winning team's philosophy can be built around these guys.
Tier 2: Brown, Tatum
These guys are in a tier by themselves because of their ability to do more things than anyone else on the court. They can defend. They can pass. They can shoot. They can score. On top of all of that, they play with a swagger that helps our team win games. That being said, they are still learning how to leverage all of their skills to help their team win games.
Tier 3: Smart, Baynes, Rozier
These guys are still important to winning basketball, but have serious flaws. Each of these guys swing entire basketball games because of their impact. Smart continues to struggle on offense, but makes winning basketball plays on the court. Baynes protects the rim and sets great picks, but is a bit foul-prone and an inconsistent threat on offense. Rozier shows flashes of being able to move up to the next tier, but continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the court.
Tier 4: Morris, Theis, Ojeyle, Larkin
These guys are quintessential role players that don't swing basketball games like Tier 3 guys, but still play good basketball. They can play with the starters at a high level and in spurts as the fulcrum of the team, but they don't normally change the dynamic of the game that much. I like Morris, Larkin, and Theis a lot. Ojeyle has the potential to ascend to Tier 3 eventually due to his lock-down defense, energy, and 3 point shooting.
Tier 5: Everyone else
Yabusele has Tier 2 potential, but right now he is like a bad Tier 3. He changes the dynamic of the game, for better or worse, when he is in there. He's not reliable at all. Nader has Tier 4 potential and I think that's why CBS likes him. He wants a wing that can give him minutes without being a risky play. I actually think Jabari Bird has Tier 3 potential, and it seems like CBS wants to bring him into that role.
That's how I see this team.
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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time. Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch? This means there's no guarantee of a competent coach and/or system. Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.
1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system. His durability up until this season has also been impressive.
2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot. Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.
3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter. He would be an asset on any team in the league. I also believe that his effort is contagious.
4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system. Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team. Durability would also be a concern. As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team.
5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins. Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored. The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.
6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.
7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game. Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper. He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.
8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us. Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.
Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row
Cant say the same without Tatum
I clarified my criteria before ranking the players. I said Brown and Tatum were 1 and 2 within the context of our team. However I ranked these players under the assumption that we were starting from scratch for one season only. The rankings are more fun when we remove the Celtics from the equation. I'm not sure Tatum could be plugged into any system and thrive instantly. Durability is also a concern for a 19 year old.
He was plugged into the Pistons lineuo the past 2 seasons and they went nowhere. Not saying its all on him but he does not move the needle
In 2 years Tatum could something special. He is already special. Right now he is better than alot of 25 year olds
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Smart
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Semi
Larkin
Nader
Bird
Yabo
I think Bird will pass Nader before all is said and done.
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I'll bite, but I'm gonna do it in tiers.
Tier 1: Al, Kyrie, Hayward
A winning team's philosophy can be built around these guys.
Tier 2: Brown, Tatum
These guys are in a tier by themselves because of their ability to do more things than anyone else on the court. They can defend. They can pass. They can shoot. They can score. On top of all of that, they play with a swagger that helps our team win games. That being said, they are still learning how to leverage all of their skills to help their team win games.
Tier 3: Smart, Baynes, Rozier
These guys are still important to winning basketball, but have serious flaws. Each of these guys swing entire basketball games because of their impact. Smart continues to struggle on offense, but makes winning basketball plays on the court. Baynes protects the rim and sets great picks, but is a bit foul-prone and an inconsistent threat on offense. Rozier shows flashes of being able to move up to the next tier, but continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the court.
Tier 4: Morris, Theis, Ojeyle, Larkin
These guys are quintessential role players that don't swing basketball games like Tier 3 guys, but still play good basketball. They can play with the starters at a high level and in spurts as the fulcrum of the team, but they don't normally change the dynamic of the game that much. I like Morris, Larkin, and Theis a lot. Ojeyle has the potential to ascend to Tier 3 eventually due to his lock-down defense, energy, and 3 point shooting.
Tier 5: Everyone else
Yabusele has Tier 2 potential, but right now he is like a bad Tier 3. He changes the dynamic of the game, for better or worse, when he is in there. He's not reliable at all. Nader has Tier 4 potential and I think that's why CBS likes him. He wants a wing that can give him minutes without being a risky play. I actually think Jabari Bird has Tier 3 potential, and it seems like CBS wants to bring him into that role.
That's how I see this team.
Agreed, except I’d swap Morris and Rozier so Morris is in Tier 3, and drop Larkin from Tier 4 to Everyone Else.
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I'll bite, but I'm gonna do it in tiers.
Tier 1: Al, Kyrie, Hayward
A winning team's philosophy can be built around these guys.
Tier 2: Brown, Tatum
These guys are in a tier by themselves because of their ability to do more things than anyone else on the court. They can defend. They can pass. They can shoot. They can score. On top of all of that, they play with a swagger that helps our team win games. That being said, they are still learning how to leverage all of their skills to help their team win games.
Tier 3: Smart, Baynes, Rozier
These guys are still important to winning basketball, but have serious flaws. Each of these guys swing entire basketball games because of their impact. Smart continues to struggle on offense, but makes winning basketball plays on the court. Baynes protects the rim and sets great picks, but is a bit foul-prone and an inconsistent threat on offense. Rozier shows flashes of being able to move up to the next tier, but continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the court.
Tier 4: Morris, Theis, Ojeyle, Larkin
These guys are quintessential role players that don't swing basketball games like Tier 3 guys, but still play good basketball. They can play with the starters at a high level and in spurts as the fulcrum of the team, but they don't normally change the dynamic of the game that much. I like Morris, Larkin, and Theis a lot. Ojeyle has the potential to ascend to Tier 3 eventually due to his lock-down defense, energy, and 3 point shooting.
Tier 5: Everyone else
Yabusele has Tier 2 potential, but right now he is like a bad Tier 3. He changes the dynamic of the game, for better or worse, when he is in there. He's not reliable at all. Nader has Tier 4 potential and I think that's why CBS likes him. He wants a wing that can give him minutes without being a risky play. I actually think Jabari Bird has Tier 3 potential, and it seems like CBS wants to bring him into that role.
That's how I see this team.
Agreed, except I’d swap Morris and Rozier so Morris is in Tier 3, and drop Larkin from Tier 4 to Everyone Else.
Interesting. I've seen Rozier swing too many games in last year's playoffs and the beginning of this season to have him in tier 4. You can tell CBS likes him a lot too.
I can see the argument of moving Morris up. I guess he did swing the game for us the other day with his play. Do you think we'll get that going forward?
It seems like CBS has Larkin in the tier 4. He likes him to give them some minutes as a rotation guy, and he likes playing Larkin with Irving for whatever reason. I get having him lower though.
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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time. Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch? This means there's no guarantee of a competent coach and/or system. Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.
1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system. His durability up until this season has also been impressive.
2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot. Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.
3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter. He would be an asset on any team in the league. I also believe that his effort is contagious.
4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system. Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team. Durability would also be a concern. As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team.
5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins. Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored. The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.
6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.
7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game. Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper. He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.
8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us. Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.
Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row
Cant say the same without Tatum
I clarified my criteria before ranking the players. I said Brown and Tatum were 1 and 2 within the context of our team. However I ranked these players under the assumption that we were starting from scratch for one season only. The rankings are more fun when we remove the Celtics from the equation. I'm not sure Tatum could be plugged into any system and thrive instantly. Durability is also a concern for a 19 year old.
He was plugged into the Pistons lineuo the past 2 seasons and they went nowhere. Not saying its all on him but he does not move the needle
In 2 years Tatum could something special. He is already special. Right now he is better than alot of 25 year olds
I mentioned that Tatum has superstar potential but my criteria was 100% based upon this season. The fact of the matter is only KI, GH, and Horford would move the needle THIS season on a new team. I don't think a rookie Tatum moves the needle with the exact same grouping Detroit had last season. Tatum has some very polished NBA skills but Stevens is also putting him in the ideal position to succeed.
I think some people are undervaluing the versatility of Marcus Morris. I'm not the biggest advanced analytics guy but he has ranked 15th and 9th in win shares among PF's the past two seasons. His length, athleticism, and well rounded offensive game allows him to play both the 3 and 4 without being a liability on either end of the court. He was also the starter for a 44 win Pistons team two season ago. The Pistons definitely regressed last season but Stan Van Gundy would be the first to tell you that Morris was his most reliable player. Reggie Jackson missed 30 games last season and the Pistons had one of the worst PG situations in basketball.
The reason I ranked Morris #1 is because I believe he could be a positive contributor in a 30+ MPG role regardless of the team he played for. He could get traded tomorrow and instantly slide in with a new team. Let's not discount his performances in the first 3 games with our group. Morris doesn't have any further upside but he's a reliable pro.
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I went with the "If I had to win an elimination/close out playoff game" criteria. Since those mean the most. Naturally that could occure at least 5 or 6 months from now, so I tried to include in the players individual developement and players ability to mesh in/provide what is needed.
1. Morris
2. Smart
3. Brown
4. Tatum
5. Rozier
6. Baynes
7. Semi
8. Theis
I can't see anyone else in the playoff rotation.
11 is deep enough.
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I went with the "If I had to win an elimination/close out playoff game" criteria. Since those mean the most. Naturally that could occure at least 5 or 6 months from now, so I tried to include in the players individual developement and players ability to mesh in/provide what is needed.
1. Morris
2. Smart
3. Brown
4. Tatum
5. Rozier
6. Baynes
7. Semi
8. Theis
I can't see anyone else in the playoff rotation.
11 is deep enough.
We were very close. I had Brown ahead of Smart but your game 7 criteria gives Smart the edge. I also had Theis ahead of Semi because I think his basketball IQ would help him fit in with more teams in the NBA at this moment.
Glad to see someone else values Morris highly. He's one of the more well-rounded PF's in the NBA.
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Tatum - I can't believe I have him this high, but nobody is providing the combination of offense, defense, and consistency that this kid is. Amazing.
Morris - He's still not 100%, I think he'll overtake Tatum when he is.
Smart - Still frustrating to watch a lot but the things he does defensively and the intensity he brings every night is incredibly important.
Brown - When he's been good he's been great. But when his shot isn't falling he can get lost on offense. Still the most versatile defender on the team, though.
Baynes - Knows his role. Plays his role very well. Doesn't play outside himself.
Theis - Seems to always know where to be on the floor.
Rozier - For all of the "Terry looks great this season" talk, he's still an inconsistent shooter who dribbles into traffic too often. He's been excellent on defense.
Larkin - He's been good in his minutes but it's hard to imagine him taking on more minutes than he currently gets and the C's still being good.
Ojeleye - He's showing promising signs but lacks any kind of consistency.
Nader - Maybe he just hasn't gotten the opportunities but he hasn't done much this season.
Yabusele - He's been wild in his minutes. I'm looking forward to his development but for now, he's a project.
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Smart
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Larkin
Ojeleye
Yabu
Nader
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Brown
Tatum
Smart
Morris
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Ojeleye
Larkin
Bird
Nader
Yabusele
Allen
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I still have Tatum at #1
CBS at times hasnt even played Brown with 5-7 min left
Tatum has been clutch
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I still have Tatum at #1
CBS at times hasnt even played Brown with 5-7 min left
Tatum has been clutch
Stevens pretty consistently plays Brown the whole 3rd quarter and then sits him for rest the first 6-7 minutes of the 4th. He finishes the game though a few times has been shuttled in and out due to his bad free throw shooting.
Heck, last game Stevens KNEW DeRozan was getting the ball during that final possession and Stevens trusted Brown to guard him.
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I still have Tatum at #1
CBS at times hasnt even played Brown with 5-7 min left
Tatum has been clutch
Stevens pretty consistently plays Brown the whole 3rd quarter and then sits him for rest the first 6-7 minutes of the 4th. He finishes the game though a few times has been shuttled in and out due to his bad free throw shooting.
Heck, last game Stevens KNEW DeRozan was getting the ball during that final possession and Stevens trusted Brown to guard him.
On a consistent basis it has been Tatum
I like Brown too
But if you ask who I would choose.... Its ..
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Skipping over all the obvious guys I'm just going to share my personal thoughts on Theis... I think this guy will be really good in 2-3 years. His per 36 numbers are pretty impressive. I love his ability to play with verticality on contesting shots. He's also got the physical tools to be someone capable of defending a lot of positions. To me, he is our Draymond light, not Yabu.
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Skipping over all the obvious guys I'm just going to share my personal thoughts on Theis... I think this guy will be really good in 2-3 years. His per 36 numbers are pretty impressive. I love his ability to play with verticality on contesting shots. He's also got the physical tools to be someone capable of defending a lot of positions. To me, he is our Draymond light, not Yabu.
he shoot the 3 more
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Skipping over all the obvious guys I'm just going to share my personal thoughts on Theis... I think this guy will be really good in 2-3 years. His per 36 numbers are pretty impressive. I love his ability to play with verticality on contesting shots. He's also got the physical tools to be someone capable of defending a lot of positions. To me, he is our Draymond light, not Yabu.
he shoot the 3 more
If you're talking about Theis, completely false. Per 36 he is only shooting 1.4 3PA and making them at a .33% clip whereas Draymond has twice the amount in 29.9 MPG in 3.4 3PA
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Tatum
Brown
Morris
Smart
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Ojeleye
Larkin
Bird
Nader
Yabusele
Allen
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All are ranked 1
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Tatum
Brown
Morris
Smart
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Ojeleye
Larkin
Bird
Nader
Yabusele
Allen
This seems right. I'm still not 100% on how the Jaylen/Jayson competition will play out. I think Tatum might be better b/c of his superior offensive game, but there's a chance that Brown can push his defense into the Kawhi category. I might be higher on Brown than others.