Udoka Facing Suspension/Udoka to Nets??

[boscel33]

Is the implication from Barnes and the interview that it wasn't Ime's conduct itself that was bad, but rather who his partner was that made it a bad decision?  (i.e., Barnes' "I reversed my stance when I found out who he slept with").

I'm assuming the woman wasn't a minor or somebody with a mental disability.  And, there's no real "reporting" that it was an intern or somebody with very little power.  Rather, all of the gossip is that Ime slept with a team executive's wife. 

Does that really change the analysis from a moral standpoint here?  In a practical, day-to-day way, you obviously don't sleep with the boss's wife.  But, the subtext has been "Ime had a consensual relationship" to "Ime is a scumbag who did some seriously bad things".  Should that narrative change based upon who the consenting adult was?

I think Barnes is just making crap up, to be honest.  There’s no way that the “who it was” is what caused this problem.  You don’t need  a multi-month outside law firm investigation because of “who it was”.  That’s was known at the outset of the investigation.  You do that because of the behavior.

Yeah, that's my take, as well.  If this was a simple thing like some are implying -- i.e., the boss's wife thing -- then I don't think that the Celtics would have brought in an outside law firm to conduct an investigation, etc.  It's the conduct.

I don't know, but Anna Horford is doing a mea culpa on her take as well... though not doing a good job of it.

I follow her on Twitter, but she about lost me with the stupid comment about it always being a matter of race when it comes to a person of color.

[SHAQATTACK]

It's pretty clear at this point it was Brad.

Who d he sleep with 

[Kernewek]

It's pretty clear at this point it was Brad.

Who d he sleep with 

Sources say it's a real Fleetwood Mac Rumours-era situation in Boston at the moment.

[Roy H.]

It's pretty clear at this point it was Brad.

Who d he sleep with 

Sources say it's a real Fleetwood Mac Rumours-era situation in Boston at the moment.

Can’t wait for the forthcoming album.

[Moranis]

Is the implication from Barnes and the interview that it wasn't Ime's conduct itself that was bad, but rather who his partner was that made it a bad decision?  (i.e., Barnes' "I reversed my stance when I found out who he slept with").

I'm assuming the woman wasn't a minor or somebody with a mental disability.  And, there's no real "reporting" that it was an intern or somebody with very little power.  Rather, all of the gossip is that Ime slept with a team executive's wife. 

Does that really change the analysis from a moral standpoint here?  In a practical, day-to-day way, you obviously don't sleep with the boss's wife.  But, the subtext has been "Ime had a consensual relationship" to "Ime is a scumbag who did some seriously bad things".  Should that narrative change based upon who the consenting adult was?

Barnes probably did change his ridiculous early stance when he heard that mostly irrelevant information about who it was but I suspect the Celtics punishment had very little to do with who the person was.

The Boston Celtics were never going to punish harshly their very popular first year coach who took the team to the finals for an office affair.  That narrative being pushed by people like Steven A. Smith was ridiculous nonsense from the start.  Udoka did things, probably several of them, that put the Celtics in a very bad legal position.  So bad that a "normal" person would have been fired.  Udoka "earned" that suspension with his conduct and his reaction pretty clearly says he knows it.

[hwangjini_1]

Is the implication from Barnes and the interview that it wasn't Ime's conduct itself that was bad, but rather who his partner was that made it a bad decision?  (i.e., Barnes' "I reversed my stance when I found out who he slept with").

I'm assuming the woman wasn't a minor or somebody with a mental disability.  And, there's no real "reporting" that it was an intern or somebody with very little power.  Rather, all of the gossip is that Ime slept with a team executive's wife. 

Does that really change the analysis from a moral standpoint here?  In a practical, day-to-day way, you obviously don't sleep with the boss's wife.  But, the subtext has been "Ime had a consensual relationship" to "Ime is a scumbag who did some seriously bad things".  Should that narrative change based upon who the consenting adult was?

Barnes probably did change his ridiculous early stance when he heard that mostly irrelevant information about who it was but I suspect the Celtics punishment had very little to do with who the person was.

The Boston Celtics were never going to punish harshly their very popular first year coach who took the team to the finals for an office affair.  That narrative being pushed by people like Steven A. Smith was ridiculous nonsense from the start.  Udoka did things, probably several of them, that put the Celtics in a very bad legal position.  So bad that a "normal" person would have been fired.  Udoka "earned" that suspension with his conduct and his reaction pretty clearly says he knows it.

a full year's suspension is not a harsh punishment? we clearly have differing standards on this topic.

[nickagneta]

Is the implication from Barnes and the interview that it wasn't Ime's conduct itself that was bad, but rather who his partner was that made it a bad decision?  (i.e., Barnes' "I reversed my stance when I found out who he slept with").

I'm assuming the woman wasn't a minor or somebody with a mental disability.  And, there's no real "reporting" that it was an intern or somebody with very little power.  Rather, all of the gossip is that Ime slept with a team executive's wife. 

Does that really change the analysis from a moral standpoint here?  In a practical, day-to-day way, you obviously don't sleep with the boss's wife.  But, the subtext has been "Ime had a consensual relationship" to "Ime is a scumbag who did some seriously bad things".  Should that narrative change based upon who the consenting adult was?

Barnes probably did change his ridiculous early stance when he heard that mostly irrelevant information about who it was but I suspect the Celtics punishment had very little to do with who the person was.

The Boston Celtics were never going to punish harshly their very popular first year coach who took the team to the finals for an office affair.  That narrative being pushed by people like Steven A. Smith was ridiculous nonsense from the start.  Udoka did things, probably several of them, that put the Celtics in a very bad legal position.  So bad that a "normal" person would have been fired.  Udoka "earned" that suspension with his conduct and his reaction pretty clearly says he knows it.

a full year's suspension is not a harsh punishment? we clearly have differing standards on this topic.

Given we don't know fully the extent of his violations or actions he did to warrant the punishment, it seems to me rather presumptuous of any of us to determine the severity of the punishment to be harsh. For all we really, truly know, the punishment could have been light, with termination being justified.

[Celtics2021]

Is the implication from Barnes and the interview that it wasn't Ime's conduct itself that was bad, but rather who his partner was that made it a bad decision?  (i.e., Barnes' "I reversed my stance when I found out who he slept with").

I'm assuming the woman wasn't a minor or somebody with a mental disability.  And, there's no real "reporting" that it was an intern or somebody with very little power.  Rather, all of the gossip is that Ime slept with a team executive's wife. 

Does that really change the analysis from a moral standpoint here?  In a practical, day-to-day way, you obviously don't sleep with the boss's wife.  But, the subtext has been "Ime had a consensual relationship" to "Ime is a scumbag who did some seriously bad things".  Should that narrative change based upon who the consenting adult was?

Barnes probably did change his ridiculous early stance when he heard that mostly irrelevant information about who it was but I suspect the Celtics punishment had very little to do with who the person was.

The Boston Celtics were never going to punish harshly their very popular first year coach who took the team to the finals for an office affair.  That narrative being pushed by people like Steven A. Smith was ridiculous nonsense from the start.  Udoka did things, probably several of them, that put the Celtics in a very bad legal position.  So bad that a "normal" person would have been fired.  Udoka "earned" that suspension with his conduct and his reaction pretty clearly says he knows it.

a full year's suspension is not a harsh punishment? we clearly have differing standards on this topic.

I think you’re misreading it.  He’s saying the Celtics wouldn’t give a harsh punishment for an office affair, and since Udoka got a harsh punishment, it therefore wasn’t just an office affair.

[Moranis]

Is the implication from Barnes and the interview that it wasn't Ime's conduct itself that was bad, but rather who his partner was that made it a bad decision?  (i.e., Barnes' "I reversed my stance when I found out who he slept with").

I'm assuming the woman wasn't a minor or somebody with a mental disability.  And, there's no real "reporting" that it was an intern or somebody with very little power.  Rather, all of the gossip is that Ime slept with a team executive's wife. 

Does that really change the analysis from a moral standpoint here?  In a practical, day-to-day way, you obviously don't sleep with the boss's wife.  But, the subtext has been "Ime had a consensual relationship" to "Ime is a scumbag who did some seriously bad things".  Should that narrative change based upon who the consenting adult was?

Barnes probably did change his ridiculous early stance when he heard that mostly irrelevant information about who it was but I suspect the Celtics punishment had very little to do with who the person was.

The Boston Celtics were never going to punish harshly their very popular first year coach who took the team to the finals for an office affair.  That narrative being pushed by people like Steven A. Smith was ridiculous nonsense from the start.  Udoka did things, probably several of them, that put the Celtics in a very bad legal position.  So bad that a "normal" person would have been fired.  Udoka "earned" that suspension with his conduct and his reaction pretty clearly says he knows it.

a full year's suspension is not a harsh punishment? we clearly have differing standards on this topic.

I think you’re misreading it.  He’s saying the Celtics wouldn’t give a harsh punishment for an office affair, and since Udoka got a harsh punishment, it therefore wasn’t just an office affair.

Yes.  That is exactly what I meant and I thought it was fairly clear the way I wrote it, but I guess not. 

[Roy H.]

The independent law firm probe into Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka found that he used crude language in his dialogue with a female subordinate prior to the start of an improper workplace relationship with the woman, an element that significantly factored into the severity of his one-year suspension, sources told ESPN.

Those investigative findings -- which described verbiage on Udoka's part that was deemed especially concerning coming from a workplace superior -- contribute to what is likely a difficult pathway back to his reinstatement as Celtics coach in 2023, sources told ESPN.

The power dynamic associated with a superior's improper relationship with a staff member was the primary finding and policy violation cited in the law firm's report, which was commissioned by the Celtics and completed early last week, sources said.

Pretty vague.  Crude language is pretty broad.  It can be harassing or suggestive.  It can also be casual or a type of banter among colleagues.

I also know for an absolute fact that Steve Pags uses crude language around business colleagues. 

[Ed Monix]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

ESPN Sources: The law firm probe into Celtics coach Ime Udoka found crude language in his dialogue w/ a female subordinate prior to start of an improper workplace relationship, an element that significantly factored into severity of a one-year suspension:

Those investigative findings – described as verbiage on Udoka’s part that was deemed especially concerning coming from a workplace superior – contribute to what is likely a difficult pathway back to his reinstatement as Celtics coach in 2023, sources told ESPN.

[Neurotic Guy]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

ESPN Sources: The law firm probe into Celtics coach Ime Udoka found crude language in his dialogue w/ a female subordinate prior to start of an improper workplace relationship, an element that significantly factored into severity of a one-year suspension:

Those investigative findings – described as verbiage on Udoka’s part that was deemed especially concerning coming from a workplace superior – contribute to what is likely a difficult pathway back to his reinstatement as Celtics coach in 2023, sources told ESPN.

I’d rather know nothing than this vague report.  Another spark to ignite guesses on what he may have said.  I feel better overall to just trust that Wyc and Brad know what they are doing and have applied an appropriate response to the information they obtained.  Many don’t trust anyone to make good decisions. But Wyc and Brad will have tons more knowledge of the situation and people involved than I’ll ever have. So for me to criticize a decision - even once details emerge about what was said - doesn’t seem right to me.

IMO, Woj and others shouldn’t be so eager to report next to nothing.

[sgrogan]

The independent law firm probe into Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka found that he used crude language in his dialogue with a female subordinate prior to the start of an improper workplace relationship with the woman, an element that significantly factored into the severity of his one-year suspension, sources told ESPN.

Those investigative findings -- which described verbiage on Udoka's part that was deemed especially concerning coming from a workplace superior -- contribute to what is likely a difficult pathway back to his reinstatement as Celtics coach in 2023, sources told ESPN.

The power dynamic associated with a superior's improper relationship with a staff member was the primary finding and policy violation cited in the law firm's report, which was commissioned by the Celtics and completed early last week, sources said.

Pretty vague.  Crude language is pretty broad.  It can be harassing or suggestive.  It can also be casual or a type of banter among colleagues.

I also know for an absolute fact that Steve Pags uses crude language around business colleagues.

If true, the "power dynamic" would explain a lot to me.

The C's became aware in July, initial interviews indicated a "consensual" relationship. Hence no immediate action.
If a power dynamic is involved the C's should not have accepted the interviews at face value.
Hire an investigative firm.
Ime's statements are drawn into question "Loss of Trust"
The women admits she was "pressured" "Twist and turns"

[Donoghus]

The independent law firm probe into Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka found that he used crude language in his dialogue with a female subordinate prior to the start of an improper workplace relationship with the woman, an element that significantly factored into the severity of his one-year suspension, sources told ESPN.

Those investigative findings -- which described verbiage on Udoka's part that was deemed especially concerning coming from a workplace superior -- contribute to what is likely a difficult pathway back to his reinstatement as Celtics coach in 2023, sources told ESPN.

The power dynamic associated with a superior's improper relationship with a staff member was the primary finding and policy violation cited in the law firm's report, which was commissioned by the Celtics and completed early last week, sources said.

Pretty vague.  Crude language is pretty broad.  It can be harassing or suggestive.  It can also be casual or a type of banter among colleagues.

I also know for an absolute fact that Steve Pags uses crude language around business colleagues.

Quite the Friday news dump. 

[Moranis]

Not really more in the article then the tweet, but here it is.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34697560/sources-investigation-found-boston-celtics-coach-ime-udoka-used-crude-language-dialogue-female-subordinate-prior-start-improper-relationship