Patriots 2022 Season

[Phantom255x]

The next 6 games are DET, @CLE, CHI, @NYJ, IND, NYJ

Hopefully Mac returns soon but that's a stretch the Pats really need to take advantage of. Going 4-2 would be fine but I think 5-1 has to be the goal. If they do go 5-1 in the next 6, that puts them at 6-4 and probably in the playoff hunt. It's been a weird start around the league so nothing is set in stone really

I agree with @Vermont Green, yes it's not great to be 1-3 but they've played some tough teams (BAL, Green Bay) and one of them with their 3rd-string QB. But NE has definitely showed they can hang with them. I also see noticeable improvement/progress each week.

[Moranis]

It's pretty sad how people get excited about a young QB scoring a touchdown for the Pats. You can combine Mac Jones, Zappe and Hoyer together into a voltron QB and this team will still suck. None of these guys are ever going to approach 25% of Tom Brady's ability.

Last year Mac was runner up for Rookie of the year, he made the pro bowl and was the best QB in a loaded draft class. Why wouldn’t fans get excited going into year two? Unfortunately, the coaching staff is failing him this season. No one’s expecting him or any other QB to be Brady.

This is mediocre to lousy team since Brady left unfortunately. This may be it for the foreseeable future. Bill Belichick is proving he can't win without Brady. The roster is poorly constructed each year and the coaching is questionable at best.

Certainly seems that way. Will be interesting to see what the Krafts decide to do about it.

I feel like being both GM and coach has become too much for Bill (as it would be for anyone IMO). I think changing his role, and perhaps moving on from old favourites, such as re-hiring Patricia, will help progress the team.

This is what I've been saying for awhile.  Doing one of those jobs in the NFL is very hard, trying to do two is impossible.  Teams can get away with it for a little while, but not long term.  It just doesn't work.  I mean imagine a NBA trying to have a coach and GM at the same time.  We'd all think it is ridiculous yet it would be a heck of a lot easier to do in the NBA than it is in the NFL.  That said, I do think you can have a coach that has ultimate say from a power dynamic standpoint, so if two guys are close, the coach can make the final determination.

It's impossible to do both jobs?

There's about 20+ years of history that prove this wrong.

When it was working for the Pats, they always had a Director of Player Personnel or something like that.  Someone performing the duties of the GM role.  It was not like Belichick tried to do both jobs.  He just had authority over the GM instead of the GM having authority over the Coach.  That is really the only difference.  Bill was able to make it work pretty well, and I don't think just because of Tom Brady.

During the season, the focus is more on coaching.  I am sure the GMs still do stuff, look for trades, released players.  I suspect Bill left that to the player personnel guy.  Then got more involved for the draft and FA periods.

When Pioli left they didn't really replace him.  That is why the Patriots drafting has gotten worse, especially early, it is why their free agent signings haven't worked all that well, why they aren't rated well in trades, etc. the last 10 years or so.  Because they don't have a guy that is doing that all year round full time.  Yes you have scouts, but you need that guy at the top, and that guy should not be the coach (even if the coach has final say, you still need that guy).  And while many keep fighting this point, the team had Tom Brady.  Brady covered up a lot of the roster issues because he was just so good (and so cheap comparatively speaking). 

[nickagneta]

It's pretty sad how people get excited about a young QB scoring a touchdown for the Pats. You can combine Mac Jones, Zappe and Hoyer together into a voltron QB and this team will still suck. None of these guys are ever going to approach 25% of Tom Brady's ability.

Last year Mac was runner up for Rookie of the year, he made the pro bowl and was the best QB in a loaded draft class. Why wouldn’t fans get excited going into year two? Unfortunately, the coaching staff is failing him this season. No one’s expecting him or any other QB to be Brady.

This is mediocre to lousy team since Brady left unfortunately. This may be it for the foreseeable future. Bill Belichick is proving he can't win without Brady. The roster is poorly constructed each year and the coaching is questionable at best.

Certainly seems that way. Will be interesting to see what the Krafts decide to do about it.

I feel like being both GM and coach has become too much for Bill (as it would be for anyone IMO). I think changing his role, and perhaps moving on from old favourites, such as re-hiring Patricia, will help progress the team.

This is what I've been saying for awhile.  Doing one of those jobs in the NFL is very hard, trying to do two is impossible.  Teams can get away with it for a little while, but not long term.  It just doesn't work.  I mean imagine a NBA trying to have a coach and GM at the same time.  We'd all think it is ridiculous yet it would be a heck of a lot easier to do in the NBA than it is in the NFL.  That said, I do think you can have a coach that has ultimate say from a power dynamic standpoint, so if two guys are close, the coach can make the final determination.

It's impossible to do both jobs?

There's about 20+ years of history that prove this wrong.

When it was working for the Pats, they always had a Director of Player Personnel or something like that.  Someone performing the duties of the GM role.  It was not like Belichick tried to do both jobs.  He just had authority over the GM instead of the GM having authority over the Coach.  That is really the only difference.  Bill was able to make it work pretty well, and I don't think just because of Tom Brady.

During the season, the focus is more on coaching.  I am sure the GMs still do stuff, look for trades, released players.  I suspect Bill left that to the player personnel guy.  Then got more involved for the draft and FA periods.

You realize that the Pats' have a current Director of Player Personnel and that since that position is subordinate to the GM, Belichick, nothing is done without his okay. Nothing is really different now than before as the Pats have had a DPP right along. Matt Groh is the current one. Dave Ziegler before him. Nick Caserio before him. That goes back 15 years.

[Moranis]

The next 6 games are DET, @CLE, CHI, @NYJ, IND, NYJ

Hopefully Mac returns soon but that's a stretch the Pats really need to take advantage of. Going 4-2 would be fine but I think 5-1 has to be the goal. If they do go 5-1 in the next 6, that puts them at 6-4 and probably in the playoff hunt. It's been a weird start around the league so nothing is set in stone really

I agree with @Vermont Green, yes it's not great to be 1-3 but they've played some tough teams (BAL, Green Bay) and one of them with their 3rd-string QB. But NE has definitely showed they can hang with them. I also see noticeable improvement/progress each week.

the next 2 should be a pretty good gauge of where the Pats are.  But this is the stretch they have to play well because the last 7 are all games where they may not be favored in a single one.  Now that they are officially 1-3, I think 6-11 is where they will end up.  Their offense just isn't good enough.

[Goldstar88]

The world would be an amazing place if Isaiah Wynn and Myles Bryant were simply cut from this team asap

Maybe a benching for Wynn? He’s still only 26 and was the Pats first round pick from a few years ago. Hopefully he turns it around soon…

[Vermont Green]

You realize that the Pats' have a current Director of Player Personnel and that since that position is subordinate to the GM, Belichick, nothing is done without his okay. Nothing is really different now than before.

Actually, I don't have any insight into the inner workings between the DPP and the GM on the Patriots, nor am I pretending that I do.  If Bill the GM is overly micromanaging the DPP, then that is probably not the best thing, any more than it would be if the GM was micromanaging the Coach.

Is it impossible to imagine that Bill, during the season, meets with the DPP once a week and says for example "keep and eye out for a tackle that may get released and let me know if one comes available?  In the meantime, the DPP is managing the day to day scouting and other personnel related activities based on general strategic guidance from Bill, while Bill is focused on the game plan for the next game.

You describe it as if the DPP is just sitting around waiting for Bill to tell him what to do.  That he doesn't do anything unless he is told by Bill to do it.  I doubt very much that is how it works.  I suspect that in the best organizations, no matter the org chart, that you get the best results with the Coach/GM/DPP all work well together.  Teams with the traditional GM-Coach relationship make bad trades, signings, draft picks all the time.  And make good deals too.  The Patriots have made good and bad deals along the way and also won more super bowls than any other team in the last 20 years.

Maybe Bill has gotten old and now can't do the dual role as well as he could in the past.  Maybe he doesn't have enough good people around him as in the past.  It could be a lot of things.  But to categorically declare that it can't work is simply not supported by what has happened in the last 20 years (and please don't come back with it worked because of Tom Brady).

[nickagneta]

You realize that the Pats' have a current Director of Player Personnel and that since that position is subordinate to the GM, Belichick, nothing is done without his okay. Nothing is really different now than before.

Actually, I don't have any insight into the inner workings between the DPP and the GM on the Patriots, nor am I pretending that I do.  If Bill the GM is overly micromanaging the DPP, then that is probably not the best thing, any more than it would be if the GM was micromanaging the Coach.

Is it impossible to imagine that Bill, during the season, meets with the DPP once a week and says for example "keep and eye out for a tackle that may get released and let me know if one comes available?  In the meantime, the DPP is managing the day to day scouting and other personnel related activities based on general strategic guidance from Bill, while Bill is focused on the game plan for the next game.

You describe it as if the DPP is just sitting around waiting for Bill to tell him what to do. That he doesn't do anything unless he is told by Bill to do it.  I doubt very much that is how it works.  I suspect that in the best organizations, no matter the org chart, that you get the best results with the Coach/GM/DPP all work well together.  Teams with the traditional GM-Coach relationship make bad trades, signings, draft picks all the time.  And make good deals too.  The Patriots have made good and bad deals along the way and also won more super bowls than any other team in the last 20 years.

Maybe Bill has gotten old and now can't do the dual role as well as he could in the past.  Maybe he doesn't have enough good people around him as in the past.  It could be a lot of things.  But to categorically declare that it can't work is simply not supported by what has happened in the last 20 years (and please don't come back with it worked because of Tom Brady).

I did no such thing.

All I said was the DPP was subordinate to Belichick and nothing is done without his okay, which means anything major. Trades aren't done. Signings aren"t done. Draft picks aren't done without Bill okaying it.

I have no idea how Groh and Belichick interact, but I imagine it's no different than any other business relationship between one management person and his direct superior. Meaning, I am sure Groh does a ton of the grunt work with Bill giving direction and being the final decision maker on larger decisions.

[Goldstar88]

Jamie Collins has agreed to a contract to return to the New England Patriots, his agent David Canter of GSE Worldwide Football confirmed Monday. It will be Collins' fourth stint with the Patriots, where he began his career as a second-round draft choice (2013-2016), returned in 2019 and then again in 2021.

[celticsclay]

The next 6 games are DET, @CLE, CHI, @NYJ, IND, NYJ

Hopefully Mac returns soon but that's a stretch the Pats really need to take advantage of. Going 4-2 would be fine but I think 5-1 has to be the goal. If they do go 5-1 in the next 6, that puts them at 6-4 and probably in the playoff hunt. It's been a weird start around the league so nothing is set in stone really

I agree with @Vermont Green, yes it's not great to be 1-3 but they've played some tough teams (BAL, Green Bay) and one of them with their 3rd-string QB. But NE has definitely showed they can hang with them. I also see noticeable improvement/progress each week.

the next 2 should be a pretty good gauge of where the Pats are.  But this is the stretch they have to play well because the last 7 are all games where they may not be favored in a single one.  Now that they are officially 1-3, I think 6-11 is where they will end up.  Their offense just isn't good enough.

Teams could turn it around and dramatically change, but they would probably be slight favorites against arizona and cinci at home (arizona was a pick ‘em against Carolina yesterday. The raiders have also not exactly been lighting the world on fire. Overall I’m not really understanding the pessimism after yesterday gsme. The patriots were about 15 yards away from kicking a field goal to win against a team many think has a shot at the super bowl.

[kraidstar]

It's pretty sad how people get excited about a young QB scoring a touchdown for the Pats. You can combine Mac Jones, Zappe and Hoyer together into a voltron QB and this team will still suck. None of these guys are ever going to approach 25% of Tom Brady's ability.

Last year Mac was runner up for Rookie of the year, he made the pro bowl and was the best QB in a loaded draft class. Why wouldn’t fans get excited going into year two? Unfortunately, the coaching staff is failing him this season. No one’s expecting him or any other QB to be Brady.

This is mediocre to lousy team since Brady left unfortunately. This may be it for the foreseeable future. Bill Belichick is proving he can't win without Brady. The roster is poorly constructed each year and the coaching is questionable at best.

Certainly seems that way. Will be interesting to see what the Krafts decide to do about it.

I feel like being both GM and coach has become too much for Bill (as it would be for anyone IMO). I think changing his role, and perhaps moving on from old favourites, such as re-hiring Patricia, will help progress the team.

This is what I've been saying for awhile.  Doing one of those jobs in the NFL is very hard, trying to do two is impossible.  Teams can get away with it for a little while, but not long term.  It just doesn't work.  I mean imagine a NBA trying to have a coach and GM at the same time.  We'd all think it is ridiculous yet it would be a heck of a lot easier to do in the NBA than it is in the NFL.  That said, I do think you can have a coach that has ultimate say from a power dynamic standpoint, so if two guys are close, the coach can make the final determination.

It's impossible to do both jobs?

There's about 20+ years of history that prove this wrong.

When it was working for the Pats, they always had a Director of Player Personnel or something like that.  Someone performing the duties of the GM role.  It was not like Belichick tried to do both jobs.  He just had authority over the GM instead of the GM having authority over the Coach.  That is really the only difference.  Bill was able to make it work pretty well, and I don't think just because of Tom Brady.

During the season, the focus is more on coaching.  I am sure the GMs still do stuff, look for trades, released players.  I suspect Bill left that to the player personnel guy.  Then got more involved for the draft and FA periods.

When Pioli left they didn't really replace him.  That is why the Patriots drafting has gotten worse, especially early, it is why their free agent signings haven't worked all that well, why they aren't rated well in trades, etc. the last 10 years or so.  Because they don't have a guy that is doing that all year round full time.  Yes you have scouts, but you need that guy at the top, and that guy should not be the coach (even if the coach has final say, you still need that guy).  And while many keep fighting this point, the team had Tom Brady.  Brady covered up a lot of the roster issues because he was just so good (and so cheap comparatively speaking).

Agree. The receiving corps was wretched even in Bradys last two years. So that's 5 years straight now.

We went dumpster diving with Antonio Brown and he was instantly our best receiver. And it's gone downhill since then. They get no separation, no yards after the catch. Teams can load up the box with little fear and pressure the qb.

Not a good situation for Mac.

[Vermont Green]

You realize that the Pats' have a current Director of Player Personnel and that since that position is subordinate to the GM, Belichick, nothing is done without his okay. Nothing is really different now than before.

Actually, I don't have any insight into the inner workings between the DPP and the GM on the Patriots, nor am I pretending that I do.  If Bill the GM is overly micromanaging the DPP, then that is probably not the best thing, any more than it would be if the GM was micromanaging the Coach.

Is it impossible to imagine that Bill, during the season, meets with the DPP once a week and says for example "keep and eye out for a tackle that may get released and let me know if one comes available?  In the meantime, the DPP is managing the day to day scouting and other personnel related activities based on general strategic guidance from Bill, while Bill is focused on the game plan for the next game.

You describe it as if the DPP is just sitting around waiting for Bill to tell him what to do. That he doesn't do anything unless he is told by Bill to do it.  I doubt very much that is how it works.  I suspect that in the best organizations, no matter the org chart, that you get the best results with the Coach/GM/DPP all work well together.  Teams with the traditional GM-Coach relationship make bad trades, signings, draft picks all the time.  And make good deals too.  The Patriots have made good and bad deals along the way and also won more super bowls than any other team in the last 20 years.

Maybe Bill has gotten old and now can't do the dual role as well as he could in the past.  Maybe he doesn't have enough good people around him as in the past.  It could be a lot of things.  But to categorically declare that it can't work is simply not supported by what has happened in the last 20 years (and please don't come back with it worked because of Tom Brady).

I did no such thing.

All I said was the DPP was subordinate to Belichick and nothing is done without his okay, which means anything major. Trades aren't done. Signings aren"t done. Draft picks aren't done without Bill okaying it.

I have no idea how Groh and Belichick interact, but I imagine it's no different than any other business relationship between one management person and his direct superior. Meaning, I am sure Groh does a ton of the grunt work with Bill giving direction and being the final decision maker on larger decisions.

OK, so what is the problem with that?  It requires Groh to be good at what he needs to do.  I think we know that Belichick is good at what he needs to do based on 20 years of success.  Now if you are saying that Belichick may have lost a step, and it is not working anymore, that is a reasonable take.  Your exact statement was that "it just doesn't work".

[nickagneta]

You realize that the Pats' have a current Director of Player Personnel and that since that position is subordinate to the GM, Belichick, nothing is done without his okay. Nothing is really different now than before.

Actually, I don't have any insight into the inner workings between the DPP and the GM on the Patriots, nor am I pretending that I do.  If Bill the GM is overly micromanaging the DPP, then that is probably not the best thing, any more than it would be if the GM was micromanaging the Coach.

Is it impossible to imagine that Bill, during the season, meets with the DPP once a week and says for example "keep and eye out for a tackle that may get released and let me know if one comes available?  In the meantime, the DPP is managing the day to day scouting and other personnel related activities based on general strategic guidance from Bill, while Bill is focused on the game plan for the next game.

You describe it as if the DPP is just sitting around waiting for Bill to tell him what to do. That he doesn't do anything unless he is told by Bill to do it.  I doubt very much that is how it works.  I suspect that in the best organizations, no matter the org chart, that you get the best results with the Coach/GM/DPP all work well together.  Teams with the traditional GM-Coach relationship make bad trades, signings, draft picks all the time.  And make good deals too.  The Patriots have made good and bad deals along the way and also won more super bowls than any other team in the last 20 years.

Maybe Bill has gotten old and now can't do the dual role as well as he could in the past.  Maybe he doesn't have enough good people around him as in the past.  It could be a lot of things.  But to categorically declare that it can't work is simply not supported by what has happened in the last 20 years (and please don't come back with it worked because of Tom Brady).

I did no such thing.

All I said was the DPP was subordinate to Belichick and nothing is done without his okay, which means anything major. Trades aren't done. Signings aren"t done. Draft picks aren't done without Bill okaying it.

I have no idea how Groh and Belichick interact, but I imagine it's no different than any other business relationship between one management person and his direct superior. Meaning, I am sure Groh does a ton of the grunt work with Bill giving direction and being the final decision maker on larger decisions.

OK, so what is the problem with that?  It requires Groh to be good at what he needs to do.  I think we know that Belichick is good at what he needs to do based on 20 years of success.  Now if you are saying that Belichick may have lost a step, and it is not working anymore, that is a reasonable take.  Your exact statement was that "it just doesn't work".

VG, I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never said it doesn't work. Please go back and read what I ACTUALLY said

[Vermont Green]

VG, I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never said it doesn't work. Please go back and read what I ACTUALLY said

You are right, I did get the quotes mixed up.  It was Moranis that said it just doesn't work.  My apologies

This is what I've been saying for awhile.  Doing one of those jobs in the NFL is very hard, trying to do two is impossible.  Teams can get away with it for a little while, but not long term.  It just doesn't work.  I mean imagine a NBA trying to have a coach and GM at the same time.  We'd all think it is ridiculous yet it would be a heck of a lot easier to do in the NBA than it is in the NFL.  That said, I do think you can have a coach that has ultimate say from a power dynamic standpoint, so if two guys are close, the coach can make the final determination.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Yeah, it’s weird to say something doesn’t work when it was the best example of success for 2 decades.

Also, looks like last years draft is stronger than anticipated. Weird that some would have a knee jerk reaction to a Belichick draft. Haven’t seen that before….

[Phantom255x]

I'm a little surprised that the media/reporters are all acting like it's definitely Zappe and/or Hoyer next week, as if it's very likely Mac is missing the next game too.

They said Mac was making "great progress", "could be a game time decision against Green Bay", and then he practiced last Friday. And now he'll miss 2-3 weeks? Then why say all that instead of just being like "yeah he'll miss a few weeks". Sounds overdramatic.

But anyways, I guess we'll see in the next few days. I'd love for Mac to return this week but I've barely heard anyone suggest that he will. Sounds like everyone already assumes it's Zappe this Sunday. I'm guessing Hoyer will also remain out so they might have to sign a QB to backup Zappe