Author Topic: How good would this team be?  (Read 3000 times)

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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2022, 08:33:11 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Taking back J-Rich better come with a pick back.

Why?

He's a player that fits well here and who has a reasonable expiring contract.  Why wouldn't he have positive value?
Rather use TPE on a bigger wing and give more minutes to PP/White/Nesmith. If you aren't getting a need with the TPE you better be getting a pick back.

Richardson can play SF, though.  There are guys with better size, but are there guys with better size who defend as well as Richardson that are available?
I don't like him playing SF. All he would do against bigger guys is gamble on steals. I want a pick back if he comes back. We have PG/SG depth need a SF/PF reliable bench player.

Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2022, 08:38:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.
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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2022, 08:44:36 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.

Not really.  If we'd had a better bench last season, we win a title.


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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2022, 08:53:57 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.

Not really.  If we'd had a better bench last season, we win a title.
And if Middleton doesn't get hurt we lose to Milwaukee in the 2nd round.  And if Herro and Butler don't get hurt, we may have lost to Miami (that one is much more questionable given Rob's injury as well). 

Last year wasn't a fluke, but it also isn't an accurate depiction of how good Boston is.  The same thing happened with Phoenix 2 seasons ago, where they make this run to the Finals based largely on injuries to opponents, and then run it back with some minor changes and end up losing in the 2nd round.  Now Tatum is better than anyone on the Suns, but the Suns have a lot of solid talent and a lot of depth, but they aren't really a contender as they lack enough top end talent.  Tatum can be great, but the reality is Brown and Smart are just not good enough as 2nd and 3rd options, unless Tatum is a clear top 3 to 5 player, which he is not. 

I've been cautioning this sort of outlook for awhile i.e. thinking Boston is a true contender and acting like it rather than acting like Boston lost in the 2nd round (which is a far more reasonable view of the team).  The offseason needs to be approached like Boston lost to Milwaukee, and under that approach, these moves don't move the needle.  Boston will spend a ton of money on a team that will lose to Milwaukee, if not others.
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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2022, 09:12:23 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.

Not really.  If we'd had a better bench last season, we win a title.
And if Middleton doesn't get hurt we lose to Milwaukee in the 2nd round.  And if Herro and Butler don't get hurt, we may have lost to Miami (that one is much more questionable given Rob's injury as well). 

Last year wasn't a fluke, but it also isn't an accurate depiction of how good Boston is.  The same thing happened with Phoenix 2 seasons ago, where they make this run to the Finals based largely on injuries to opponents, and then run it back with some minor changes and end up losing in the 2nd round.  Now Tatum is better than anyone on the Suns, but the Suns have a lot of solid talent and a lot of depth, but they aren't really a contender as they lack enough top end talent.  Tatum can be great, but the reality is Brown and Smart are just not good enough as 2nd and 3rd options, unless Tatum is a clear top 3 to 5 player, which he is not. 

I've been cautioning this sort of outlook for awhile i.e. thinking Boston is a true contender and acting like it rather than acting like Boston lost in the 2nd round (which is a far more reasonable view of the team).  The offseason needs to be approached like Boston lost to Milwaukee, and under that approach, these moves don't move the needle.  Boston will spend a ton of money on a team that will lose to Milwaukee, if not others.
I love this outlook that only other teams were negatively impacted by injuries so that's why we got as far as we did.  C's were pretty banged up as well.  Timelord missing games and having knee issues when playing.  Smart missing a game and having multiple issues when playing.  Tatum's shoulder definitely threw him off after getting that 'stinger' in the playoffs. 

Having Middleton would have made the Bucks tougher to beat but having a healthy Celtics roster would have made us tougher to beat no matter who we went up against.  no guarantee the playoff series end up any differently.

Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2022, 09:16:38 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.

Not really.  If we'd had a better bench last season, we win a title.
And if Middleton doesn't get hurt we lose to Milwaukee in the 2nd round.  And if Herro and Butler don't get hurt, we may have lost to Miami (that one is much more questionable given Rob's injury as well). 

Last year wasn't a fluke, but it also isn't an accurate depiction of how good Boston is.  The same thing happened with Phoenix 2 seasons ago, where they make this run to the Finals based largely on injuries to opponents, and then run it back with some minor changes and end up losing in the 2nd round.  Now Tatum is better than anyone on the Suns, but the Suns have a lot of solid talent and a lot of depth, but they aren't really a contender as they lack enough top end talent.  Tatum can be great, but the reality is Brown and Smart are just not good enough as 2nd and 3rd options, unless Tatum is a clear top 3 to 5 player, which he is not. 

I've been cautioning this sort of outlook for awhile i.e. thinking Boston is a true contender and acting like it rather than acting like Boston lost in the 2nd round (which is a far more reasonable view of the team).  The offseason needs to be approached like Boston lost to Milwaukee, and under that approach, these moves don't move the needle.  Boston will spend a ton of money on a team that will lose to Milwaukee, if not others.
I love this outlook that only other teams were negatively impacted by injuries so that's why we got as far as we did.  C's were pretty banged up as well.  Timelord missing games and having knee issues when playing.  Smart missing a game and having multiple issues when playing.  Tatum's shoulder definitely threw him off after getting that 'stinger' in the playoffs. 

Having Middleton would have made the Bucks tougher to beat but having a healthy Celtics roster would have made us tougher to beat no matter who we went up against.  no guarantee the playoff series end up any differently.

Agreed.  And, if we added two rotation players and another backup center, I think that significantly closes the gap with Milwaukee.  We don't need a gigantic change.  I'm not against a big move, but I also don't think it's necessary so long as we take a couple of steps forward.

And, adding good role players now doesn't preclude us from making a big deal (Horford, White, picks) or a small deal (various $6-ish million trade exceptions) later.


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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2022, 09:28:13 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.

Not really.  If we'd had a better bench last season, we win a title.
And if Middleton doesn't get hurt we lose to Milwaukee in the 2nd round.  And if Herro and Butler don't get hurt, we may have lost to Miami (that one is much more questionable given Rob's injury as well). 

Last year wasn't a fluke, but it also isn't an accurate depiction of how good Boston is.  The same thing happened with Phoenix 2 seasons ago, where they make this run to the Finals based largely on injuries to opponents, and then run it back with some minor changes and end up losing in the 2nd round.  Now Tatum is better than anyone on the Suns, but the Suns have a lot of solid talent and a lot of depth, but they aren't really a contender as they lack enough top end talent.  Tatum can be great, but the reality is Brown and Smart are just not good enough as 2nd and 3rd options, unless Tatum is a clear top 3 to 5 player, which he is not. 

I've been cautioning this sort of outlook for awhile i.e. thinking Boston is a true contender and acting like it rather than acting like Boston lost in the 2nd round (which is a far more reasonable view of the team).  The offseason needs to be approached like Boston lost to Milwaukee, and under that approach, these moves don't move the needle.  Boston will spend a ton of money on a team that will lose to Milwaukee, if not others.
I love this outlook that only other teams were negatively impacted by injuries so that's why we got as far as we did.  C's were pretty banged up as well.  Timelord missing games and having knee issues when playing.  Smart missing a game and having multiple issues when playing.  Tatum's shoulder definitely threw him off after getting that 'stinger' in the playoffs. 

Having Middleton would have made the Bucks tougher to beat but having a healthy Celtics roster would have made us tougher to beat no matter who we went up against.  no guarantee the playoff series end up any differently.
Other teams were more affected by injuries than we were.  That isn't some sort of crazy statement.  Middleton is the 3rd best player in that series behind Giannis and Tatum.  He is the only other Buck (aside from Giannis obviously) capable of creating offense for both himself and others.  The reason Milwaukee continually collapsed in the 4th quarter against Boston, is Giannis just wore out because he was handling so much of the load for the first 3 quarters and they had no one else capable of stepping up (Milwaukee only won 2 of the 7 4th quarters games 1 and 5).  Middleton being out was far more critical than Smart missing a game (a game Boston won) or Williams being out (they were 1-2 with Williams and 3-1 without him).  And it was a close 7 game series.  It isn't like Boston swept the Middleton-less Bucks. 

If the Bucks and Celtics were both healthy last year, the Bucks win that series.  It would have been a good series, but the Bucks were clearly the better team and they still are.
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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2022, 09:32:33 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Not as good as Milwaukee.  Not as good as whatever team Durant ends up on.  Maybe not as good as Miami or Philly depending on what they do.

In other words, why bother?

If Boston isn't upgrading a top 3 spot on the roster, then it is just treading water.

Not really.  If we'd had a better bench last season, we win a title.
And if Middleton doesn't get hurt we lose to Milwaukee in the 2nd round.  And if Herro and Butler don't get hurt, we may have lost to Miami (that one is much more questionable given Rob's injury as well). 

Last year wasn't a fluke, but it also isn't an accurate depiction of how good Boston is.  The same thing happened with Phoenix 2 seasons ago, where they make this run to the Finals based largely on injuries to opponents, and then run it back with some minor changes and end up losing in the 2nd round.  Now Tatum is better than anyone on the Suns, but the Suns have a lot of solid talent and a lot of depth, but they aren't really a contender as they lack enough top end talent.  Tatum can be great, but the reality is Brown and Smart are just not good enough as 2nd and 3rd options, unless Tatum is a clear top 3 to 5 player, which he is not. 

I've been cautioning this sort of outlook for awhile i.e. thinking Boston is a true contender and acting like it rather than acting like Boston lost in the 2nd round (which is a far more reasonable view of the team).  The offseason needs to be approached like Boston lost to Milwaukee, and under that approach, these moves don't move the needle.  Boston will spend a ton of money on a team that will lose to Milwaukee, if not others.
I love this outlook that only other teams were negatively impacted by injuries so that's why we got as far as we did.  C's were pretty banged up as well.  Timelord missing games and having knee issues when playing.  Smart missing a game and having multiple issues when playing.  Tatum's shoulder definitely threw him off after getting that 'stinger' in the playoffs. 

Having Middleton would have made the Bucks tougher to beat but having a healthy Celtics roster would have made us tougher to beat no matter who we went up against.  no guarantee the playoff series end up any differently.
Other teams were more affected by injuries than we were.  That isn't some sort of crazy statement.  Middleton is the 3rd best player in that series behind Giannis and Tatum.  He is the only other Buck (aside from Giannis obviously) capable of creating offense for both himself and others.  The reason Milwaukee continually collapsed in the 4th quarter against Boston, is Giannis just wore out because he was handling so much of the load for the first 3 quarters and they had no one else capable of stepping up (Milwaukee only won 2 of the 7 4th quarters games 1 and 5).  Middleton being out was far more critical than Smart missing a game (a game Boston won) or Williams being out (they were 1-2 with Williams and 3-1 without him).  And it was a close 7 game series.  It isn't like Boston swept the Middleton-less Bucks. 

If the Bucks and Celtics were both healthy last year, the Bucks win that series.  It would have been a good series, but the Bucks were clearly the better team and they still are.
you love to pass off your speculation as fact.  it would have made for a different series no doubt but the way a healthy Celtics team tore through the league at the end of the year throws a lot of cold water on your assumption that having Middleton puts Milwaukee way over the top of a healthy Celtics team.   I think it's a much closer series than you do.  Maybe Bucks win, maybe they don't but it's in no way a given Milwaukee wins it.   I would say that if Milwaukee had Middleton and got past the C's they'd have beaten GSW.  they had no one to contain Giannis.

Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2022, 11:01:55 AM »

Online Roy H.

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?


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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2022, 11:03:20 AM »

Offline Who

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?

Probably one of those Kennard / Duncan Robinson types. A wing who can shoot. Someone with quick feet so they can matchup against guys (6-5 to 6-7 wings) that G Will and Gallo have a tougher time with.

Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2022, 11:04:15 AM »

Offline Moranis

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?
someone better than Smart.
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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2022, 11:20:57 AM »

Online Roy H.

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?
someone better than Smart.

Such as?


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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2022, 11:37:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?
someone better than Smart.

Such as?
Of the people reasonably available, obviously Durant is the big one, but Collins I think would work.  I'd inquire about Simmons, not sure where the Nets are with him, and would do the same with Gobert and Mitchell with the Jazz. 

I'd like Sexton or Ayton, but Boston can't sign and trade anyone so they are out. 

I'm sure other players are potentially available, guys like MPJ from the Nuggets for example.  I don't think I'd want De'Angelo Russell, but I'd kick the tires on him depending on the asking price.  Jaren Jackson just got hurt again, maybe you could buy low on him. 
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Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2022, 12:06:55 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?

The picture is clarifying to something not to far off from this (I'd quibble over whether GWill is a wing or a big):

C   Timelord / Theis / Bryant
PF  Horford / Gallinari / G. Williams
SF  Tatum  / ? ? ? ?  / Nesmith
SG  Brown / White / Hauser
PG  Smart / Pritchard

And that leaves the core rotation slot to fill is a bench wing.  Richardson?  We could do worse.  It would be a bit odd to see him come back.  He can't be feeling all that good about the Celtics after that.  I hope we do bring in Bryant and he resurrects his career. 

We are solid heading into next season already and should be a little better.

Re: How good would this team be?
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2022, 01:17:48 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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So, let's say we get our two targets as reported by the media:

Sign:  Gallinari

Sign: Thomas Bryant

Timelord / Theis / Bryant
Horford / Gallinari / Hauser
Tatum /  G. Williams / Nesmith
Brown / White
Smart / Pritchard

Who should be our target with the TPE or via trade?

The picture is clarifying to something not to far off from this (I'd quibble over whether GWill is a wing or a big):

C   Timelord / Theis / Bryant
PF  Horford / Gallinari / G. Williams
SF  Tatum  / ? ? ? ?  / Nesmith
SG  Brown / White / Hauser
PG  Smart / Pritchard

And that leaves the core rotation slot to fill is a bench wing.  Richardson?  We could do worse.  It would be a bit odd to see him come back.  He can't be feeling all that good about the Celtics after that.  I hope we do bring in Bryant and he resurrects his career. 

We are solid heading into next season already and should be a little better.

I think functionally the mins are more like this:

C   Timelord / Gallinari
PF  Horford /  G. Williams
SF  Tatum  / G. Williams
SG  Brown /  Pritchard/
PG  Smart / White