The Top Players At Every Draft Position...

[wdleehi]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

I just don't see how picking Lebron is easy.   Kareem with 6 titles.   Shaq with 4 titles.  Even Duncan with 5 titles. 

[nickagneta]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

I just don't see how picking Lebron is easy.   Kareem with 6 titles.   Shaq with 4 titles.  Even Duncan with 5 titles.

I think it an extremely difficult call with the difference between Lebron and Kareem being razor thin.

But I do think Lebron is the right choice.

[Moranis]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

I just don't see how picking Lebron is easy.   Kareem with 6 titles.   Shaq with 4 titles.  Even Duncan with 5 titles.

He is better than those guys. 

[sgrogan]

Doesn't this revert to the GOAT?

[mobilija]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

I just don't see how picking Lebron is easy.   Kareem with 6 titles.   Shaq with 4 titles.  Even Duncan with 5 titles.

He is better than those guys.

Teams with the best player on the floor wins in a 7 game series. Duncan is 2-0 vs Lebron in championships. I know you will have caveats to explain this....but its not "easy", not the slam dunk you make it out to be.

[Roy H.]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

I just don't see how picking Lebron is easy.   Kareem with 6 titles.   Shaq with 4 titles.  Even Duncan with 5 titles.

He is better than those guys.

Teams with the best player on the floor wins in a 7 game series. Duncan is 2-0 vs Lebron in championships. I know you will have caveats to explain this....but its not "easy", not the slam dunk you make it out to be.

I think you may be misremembering, or you’ve blocked Ray Allen from your memory.

[gouki88]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

shameful lack of regard for older players.  top 2 are Russell and Wilt.  period.  Greatest team player and winner in NBA history and the greatest individual talent in NBA history.

There’s a bit more in NBA history than the 60s.

[mobilija]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

I just don't see how picking Lebron is easy.   Kareem with 6 titles.   Shaq with 4 titles.  Even Duncan with 5 titles.

He is better than those guys.

Teams with the best player on the floor wins in a 7 game series. Duncan is 2-0 vs Lebron in championships. I know you will have caveats to explain this....but its not "easy", not the slam dunk you make it out to be.

I think you may be misremembering, or you’ve blocked Ray Allen from your memory.

Doh!
...2-1...

I actually really like Ray Allen. Was super pumped when he became a Celtic. I Grew up in CT to Calhoun transforming UCONN and Ray Allen was a big part of that. Loved him on the Bucks w Glen Robinson and Sam Cassel. EZ for me to forget the bad times when it comes to Ray Allen

[Surferdad]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

shameful lack of regard for older players.  top 2 are Russell and Wilt.  period.  Greatest team player and winner in NBA history and the greatest individual talent in NBA history.

There’s a bit more in NBA history than the 60s.

The bolded accomplishments still stand. Nobody before or since has eclipsed those accomplishments.

[gouki88]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

shameful lack of regard for older players.  top 2 are Russell and Wilt.  period.  Greatest team player and winner in NBA history and the greatest individual talent in NBA history.

There’s a bit more in NBA history than the 60s.

The bolded accomplishments still stand. Nobody before or since has eclipsed those accomplishments.

Sure, but there is more to basketball rankings than being the greatest winner or the greatest individual talent.

[slamtheking]

Lebron and Jordan are pretty widely regarded as the top 2 players ever and since they weren't in the same draft slot, it is pretty easy to slot them into their actual draft position.  Russell is pretty easy at 2 as really only West and Durant could you even consider (and they aren't as good as Bill).  Pick 4 is the first time there is a question.  Hard to really differentiate between someone like Chris Paul and Bob Cousy since they played in vastly different eras.  And while I think many have put Paul ahead of Westbrook, it is Russ that has the MVP.  5 is also in question as you have KG and Barkley along with Wade and Pippen.  That is perhaps the most interesting debate that exists.  Bird and Curry are no brainers at 6 and 7.  And while Parish seems out of place on the list, his main competition are Sam Jones, Detlef Schrempf, and Jack Sikma so I can't say Parish didn't have the better career.  Dirk is the correct choice at 9, but Hondo, McGrady, and even Amar'e and Marion are all interesting choices and probably all better than Parish.  Similarly, Pierce is the easy choice at 10, though Paul George does still have some time to catch him. 

11 and 12 are no brainers with Reggie Miller and Dr. J, but 13 is interesting.  Hoopshype chose Kobe, but Karl Malone isn't exactly a slouch as he does have more MVP's, scored more points, etc.  Drexler at 14 and Giannis at 15 also are no brainers even with guys like Nash and Kawhi coming in at 15 along with Giannis.  Looking at the rest of the list there are quite a few no brainers, though some pretty interesting discussion points on some of the people with lesser careers.

shameful lack of regard for older players.  top 2 are Russell and Wilt.  period.  Greatest team player and winner in NBA history and the greatest individual talent in NBA history.

There’s a bit more in NBA history than the 60s.

The bolded accomplishments still stand. Nobody before or since has eclipsed those accomplishments.

Sure, but there is more to basketball rankings than being the greatest winner or the greatest individual talent.

such as?  I'm genuinely curious what measuring stick you're suggesting. 

[Roy H.]

How do you measure “greatest individual talent”?

For instance, I think that Jokic would be more dominant in the 60s than Wilt would be in 2022.

[slamtheking]

How do you measure “greatest individual talent”?

For instance, I think that Jokic would be more dominant in the 60s than Wilt would be in 2022.

I admit to not being old enough to have watched Wilt play but I would consider "greatest individual talent" as the person who could do pretty much anything he wanted on the court and do it better than anyone else ever has.  Wilt's scoring ability is unmatched.  100 point in one game.  averaging 50 in a season.  high quality passer.  incredible rebounder.  very good defender.

not knocking Jokic or saying who would do well in the past or in the current time but for me, Wilt's accomplishments as an individual outshine Jordan and Lebron as individual talents.

[Moranis]

In 61-62 the league average was 118.8 ppg (the Warriors were over 125). It was just a different era.  Teams just went up and down the floor.  The most impressive thing Wilt did that season wasn't score 50.4 ppg, it was play 48.5 mpg (he missed less than 50 minutes all season).  There were also only 9 teams, 6 of which made the playoffs with the top seed getting a bye.  To win the championship that season Boston only had to win 2 series, which was that way for much of Bill's run in the 50's and 60's.  Having to win only 8 games to win a championship, quite simply made it easier to do.  It also didn't hurt that the Celtics basically had at least 5 HOFers every single season.

EDIT: As a comparison, the year Jordan scored 37.1 the Bulls scored 104.8 ppg (that was 86-87), so Jordan accounted for 35.4% of the Bulls points directly.  Jordan also had 4.6 apg so at least another 9.2 ppg (takes it up to at least 39% of the Bulls points).  So doing the same thing for Wilt and the Warriors in 61-62, Wilts 50.4 ppg plus his 2.4 apg (4.8 points) were obviously a greater percentage at 44%, but not nearly as much as you might think before doing that math.  For some further seasons, the 05-06 Lakers scored just 99.4 ppg of which Kobe scored 35.4 ppg and had 4.5 apg, which if you do the math means Kobe accounted for at least 44.66% of the Lakers points that season, or a greater percentage than Wilt accounted for.  The 18-19 Rockets scored 113.9 ppg, Harden was at 36.1 ppg and 7.5 apg or 44.86% of the points (and that is clearly less as at least some of Harden's assists were on 3 pointers).  And of course, we can't leave Lebron out.  The 07-08 Cavs scored 96.4 ppg, James was at 30.0 ppg and 7.2 apg, which is at least a whooping 46% of team points scored or assisted by James.  And for the cream of the crop look no further than the 16-17 Thunder at 106.6 ppg, of which Westbrook scored 31.6 ppg and dished out a whopping 10.4 apg or 49.16% (which is really probably over 50% when correctly accounting for the 3 pointers on those assists).  I'm sure you can find other similar seasons, especially from the eras where teams weren't scoring that much. 

Wilt had an incredibly dominant season in 61-62, but other individual seasons were absolutely in the ballpark when accounting for pace and assists.  In fact, you can realistically argue that that season of Wilt wasn't even one of the top 5 most dominant seasons in the sport's history.

[Moranis]

I forgot about Tiny's 73 season.  The Kings scored 107.6 ppg that season.  Tiny scored 34 ppg and dished out 11.4 apg.  So doing the same math as above, Tiny accounted for at least (if there were any and 1's on the assists) 52.79% of the Kings points.