Author Topic: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?  (Read 4416 times)

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Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2021, 02:53:03 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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So what's the best they can get if they do trade him (presumably based on some level of historical precedent)? That's what I'm asking.

What historical comps are there to a trade of a young rising star with two ECF appearances under his belt already, locked up on a new long-term contract?  Kyrie coming to us seems fairly close... ish.  Kyrie was a better player with more on his resume than Tatum has right now, but with less years left on his deal - and he was already known as a malcontent, though he hadn't yet gotten as bad as he is today. 

We shipped out Isaiah Thomas, coming off of a year in which he dragged us to the ECF and placed 5th in MVP voting, but with a concerning hip injury... the 2018 Nets pick that was a premium asset with top-of-the-draft potential at the time, but wound up merely 8th... Jae Crowder, a solid roleplayer and culture-setter... and a throw-in project big man in Ante Zizic.  It's worth noting that the Cavs struck out on pretty much all of those pieces, but that has no bearing on the value they had at the time of the trade.

So where does that get us?  As I mentioned, Kyrie was a better, more accomplished player at the time of the trade, though Tatum's better contract and better apparent attitude do narrow the gap some.  That's about as close as I can remember.  Pieces like Tatum don't move very often.

Maybe loosen the proxy a bit? On the high side, trades like Davis, Leonard, Harden (to the Nets), and maybe Chris Paul (to the Lakers more so than the Clips); on the low side Kyrie, and Harden (to the Rockets). 

None of these are perfect comps -- far from it. Davis and Leonard were better players, but NOP was hindered by having to deal with the Lakers, and Kawhi was expiring. But at least these various players are as good-to-better than Tatum, and in their respective primes.

Sadly, many of the players I'd hope to get for Tatum are better (or have higher potential) than B Ingram, who is arguably the best established player traded in the hindsight deals noted above -- assuming you agree DeRozen would be seen as a little less "valuable" considering his age. I suppose the combo of Ingram, Ball and the 4th pick in the draft  (plus more picks and change) is pretty good return considering NOP was pigeon-holed to LAL..... of course they basically bungled it from there.

I haven't had a chance to dig through all the picks that were made out of these deals....

 




« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 03:04:31 PM by todd_days_41 »

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2021, 03:39:18 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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then your hypothetical doesn't work.  you would either trade Tatum for an equal player -- none of which I see out there -- or for lesser pieces which should not be considered.  Combine him if necessary to get a better player. 

Where did I say the Cs would get an equal player or better? These are your statements -- not mine. Every one I've posted has the Cs getting multiple assets in return.

you're suggesting the C's do the same thing that you're saying teams with MVPs will not do which is accept a lesser player with other pieces for their better player.

Teams don't often trade MVPs, and Tatum ain't one. Top 25 players? They do get traded, but rarely for a better player -- mostly because, well, there's only 25 of 'em, and they aren't all unhappy, a poor fit, an expiring contract flight risk, etc, at the same time. So teams have to maximize what they can get, in the hope / plan of taking two steps forward after they take one back. Tatum himself was the product of such a deal.

You're projecting your view onto mine. You think that if the Cs traded Tatum, they should add pieces to it to get a better player. I think that's unlikely. Like... Cs trade Tatum and Brown for Giannis? Or Tatum and Timelord for Doncic? That's more than hypothetical -- that's fantasy. You assume the Cs will be in a position of strength if hypothetical becomes reality. I don't.

The Cs don't need to or want to trade Tatum now. Someday, they may -- and you and I can't predict that timing. But it's not like it's all sunshine and roses at the Auerbach Center right now. So what's the best they can get if they do trade him (presumably based on some level of historical precedent)? That's what I'm asking.
your stuck on this can't trade for an MVP thing.  Moving Tatum for lesser pieces, regardless of how many, makes this team worse and moving in the wrong direction which is the very reason you don't move him for a lesser player.  sure, it's your hypothetical but since it's a hypothetical, I choose to make a move that gets a better player, not inferior parts.  if it's a hypothetical situation which is not going to happen, any hypothetical response is valid even if it's not going to happen.

consider this, Giannis' recent comments about possibly moving on in a couple of years from Milwaukee --> MVP could be moved.  Say the C's and Bucks get into talks about swapping Tatum and some assets for Giannis.  that's not out of the realm of possibility.  If the Bucks were going to lose Giannis, they'd jump at the chance to get Tatum in his place.  C's would have no issue moving Tatum in that case with reasonable extra assets provided Giannis was interested in playing here for several years.

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2021, 03:56:04 PM »

Offline gouki88

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It would have to be done in the offseason, but I would think about Tatum & Smart for KAT, Beasley and Vanderbilt.

We roll with:
Schroder / Pritchard
Beasley / Richardson
Brown / Langford / Nesmith
Horford / G-Will / Vanderbilt
KAT / Timelord / Vanderbilt

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2021, 09:06:32 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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It would have to be done in the offseason, but I would think about Tatum & Smart for KAT, Beasley and Vanderbilt.

We roll with:
Schroder / Pritchard
Beasley / Richardson
Brown / Langford / Nesmith
Horford / G-Will / Vanderbilt
KAT / Timelord / Vanderbilt
I think KATs value is gonna drop hard over the next 2-3 years. I like him, but think he could be gettable much lower soon. Wouldnít trade him in the same package as Tatum unless there was robust value added.

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2021, 11:34:26 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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then your hypothetical doesn't work.  you would either trade Tatum for an equal player -- none of which I see out there -- or for lesser pieces which should not be considered.  Combine him if necessary to get a better player. 

Where did I say the Cs would get an equal player or better? These are your statements -- not mine. Every one I've posted has the Cs getting multiple assets in return.

you're suggesting the C's do the same thing that you're saying teams with MVPs will not do which is accept a lesser player with other pieces for their better player.

Teams don't often trade MVPs, and Tatum ain't one. Top 25 players? They do get traded, but rarely for a better player -- mostly because, well, there's only 25 of 'em, and they aren't all unhappy, a poor fit, an expiring contract flight risk, etc, at the same time. So teams have to maximize what they can get, in the hope / plan of taking two steps forward after they take one back. Tatum himself was the product of such a deal.

You're projecting your view onto mine. You think that if the Cs traded Tatum, they should add pieces to it to get a better player. I think that's unlikely. Like... Cs trade Tatum and Brown for Giannis? Or Tatum and Timelord for Doncic? That's more than hypothetical -- that's fantasy. You assume the Cs will be in a position of strength if hypothetical becomes reality. I don't.

The Cs don't need to or want to trade Tatum now. Someday, they may -- and you and I can't predict that timing. But it's not like it's all sunshine and roses at the Auerbach Center right now. So what's the best they can get if they do trade him (presumably based on some level of historical precedent)? That's what I'm asking.
your stuck on this can't trade for an MVP thing.  Moving Tatum for lesser pieces, regardless of how many, makes this team worse and moving in the wrong direction which is the very reason you don't move him for a lesser player.  sure, it's your hypothetical but since it's a hypothetical, I choose to make a move that gets a better player, not inferior parts.  if it's a hypothetical situation which is not going to happen, any hypothetical response is valid even if it's not going to happen.

consider this, Giannis' recent comments about possibly moving on in a couple of years from Milwaukee --> MVP could be moved.  Say the C's and Bucks get into talks about swapping Tatum and some assets for Giannis.  that's not out of the realm of possibility.  If the Bucks were going to lose Giannis, they'd jump at the chance to get Tatum in his place.  C's would have no issue moving Tatum in that case with reasonable extra assets provided Giannis was interested in playing here for several years.
Ok great your idea is Tatum for Giannis. Sounds good.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 07:55:41 AM by todd_days_41 »

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2021, 05:34:44 PM »

Offline gouki88

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It would have to be done in the offseason, but I would think about Tatum & Smart for KAT, Beasley and Vanderbilt.

We roll with:
Schroder / Pritchard
Beasley / Richardson
Brown / Langford / Nesmith
Horford / G-Will / Vanderbilt
KAT / Timelord / Vanderbilt
I think KATs value is gonna drop hard over the next 2-3 years. I like him, but think he could be gettable much lower soon. Wouldnít trade him in the same package as Tatum unless there was robust value added.
I hope you're right. Snagging KAT on the cheap would be awesome IMO. His offensive skill-set for a big man is crazy, and I think with the right supporting cast he would be unstoppable.

In my little unrealistic fantasy land I'd love to see KAT line up alongside someone like Pascal Siakam

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2021, 05:51:22 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Tatum isnít going anywhere unless he leaves as a free agent
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2021, 10:35:26 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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I would want very good players who:

1) care about winning a lot
2) play with energy and toughness consistently
3) would be a good fit in terms of roster construction

I'm growing tired of Tatum's act. He doesn't seem to be a bad guy at all, but he gives me the impression of caring just a little more about himself than the team. He would do better as the second best player behind a very strong personality.
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Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2021, 10:38:53 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Tatum isnít going anywhere unless he leaves as a free agent

And he walks away for nothing ............ like Irving, Horford, Hayward ?
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Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2021, 11:36:19 PM »

Online pokeKingCurtis

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Tatum isnít going anywhere unless he leaves as a free agent

And he walks away for nothing ............ like Irving, Horford, Hayward ?

Then you just have to deal with it. If Ainge had a time machine, he should still be doing that Kyrie deal 10 times out of 10.

Kind of like those Rockets with Harden.

They had such a good thing going with those Pocket Rockets, would have been one of the more fun championship runs to watch...maybe from a story standpoint (not sure watching Harden jack 3's is fun from a basketball standpoint though haha).

I know I'm talking in circles, but Horford would have stayed had he known Kemba was coming...oh well.

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2021, 11:41:24 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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At what point should Cs start to worry about Tatum looking around.

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2021, 11:59:00 PM »

Offline Who

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At what point should Cs start to worry about Tatum looking around.
18 months time if C's show no improvement over current situation. Need to be back competing for titles by end of that season or start of following season.

If not, stars will start to wonder if there are greener pastures elsewhere.

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2021, 12:36:55 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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At what point should Cs start to worry about Tatum looking around.

Soon. He's never sniffed an NBA Finals appearance. He was one quarter shy from making an appearance in 2018.

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2021, 02:08:09 AM »

Offline Somebody

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At what point should Cs start to worry about Tatum looking around.
18 months time if C's show no improvement over current situation. Need to be back competing for titles by end of that season or start of following season.

If not, stars will start to wonder if there are greener pastures elsewhere.
We'll be closer to the lottery than title contention with two men pulling off a Pitino in both GMing and coaching lol.
Curry for MVP and Draymond for All-NBA

Re: What if: Cs decided to trade Tatum?
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2021, 07:09:22 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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It would have to be done in the offseason, but I would think about Tatum & Smart for KAT, Beasley and Vanderbilt.

We roll with:
Schroder / Pritchard
Beasley / Richardson
Brown / Langford / Nesmith
Horford / G-Will / Vanderbilt
KAT / Timelord / Vanderbilt
I thought the Celtics are not allowed to sign Schroder for what he will command -- $18-20MM range.