The Knicks Are Still Terrible

[Ed Monix]

The New York Knicks are still one of the worst run teams in the NBA and if you’re factoring in profitability, they are the most incompetent by a fair margin. If you look at how things have progressed since Phil Jackson left, the organisation continues to make the wrong moves.

The hiring of Tom Thibodeau was seen as a huge coup for the ailing franchise, but in my opinion, it is yet another poor decision.

Thibs was ousted from the Bulls after damaging Rose’s career, while shortening Deng and Noah’s. One would assume Thibs has learned from his failings, but when asked if he would alter his heavy minutes policy, Thibs said no, and last season the Knicks star players averaged the highest minutes in the league (by some distance).

The new Knicks president of basketball operations, Leon Rose, portrayed Thibs as someone who could develop youngsters, bring back winning mentality to the Knicks and attract free agents. Well Thibs has refused to play and develop their rookies (other then perhaps Barrett) and given the Knicks recent re-signing flurry, they had no concrete interest from star free agents.

Although I believe the 76ers destroyed themselves with their all out Hinkie tank, that doesn’t mean a team can’t rebuild with youth while picking up assets through salary dumping, similar to what Memphis is currently doing and what the Celtics previously did following the Brooklyn trade.

Something that has become blatantly obvious to me is no matter how bad the Knicks play, their loyal fans will pack Madison Square Garden. If that’s the case, the Knicks should be the one team who could tank (in some form) without financial repercussions, but because the Knicks hired Thibs, they have most likely missed any chance of picking in the high lottery for the foreseeable future.

If you look at their recent drafting history it’s actually been quite poor, which surprisingly was something the Knicks previously did very well.

In 2018 they selected Kevin Knox with the 9th pick, Mikal Bridges was the very next pick, followed by Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Miles Bridges and then at 14, Michael Porter Jr…that selection is a disaster. In 2019 in which they missed out on Zion & Morant which was obviously tough but IMO picking RJ Barrett was the wrong move when De’Andre Hunter and Darius Garland were available, but perhaps at least not a horrible decision. The 2020 pick of Toppin is still a confusing one, he is an old fashioned power forward which is not valued in the current NBA. Toppin doesn’t protect the rim, stretch the floor or defend at a high rate. Someone who was still on the board and apparently worked out for the Knicks was Tyrese Haliburton.

So essentially without changing any of the Knicks recent decisions, except their draft selections, they could have a roster with Gilgeous-Alexander, Hunter and Haliburton.

IMO the Knicks are still a terrible organisation, please try and change my mind.

[celticsclay]

The New York Knicks are still one of the worst run teams in the NBA and if you’re factoring in profitability, they are the most incompetent by a fair margin. If you look at how things have progressed since Phil Jackson left, the organisation continues to make the wrong moves.

The hiring of Tom Thibodeau was seen as a huge coup for the ailing franchise, but in my opinion, it is yet another poor decision.

Thibs was ousted from the Bulls after damaging Rose’s career, while shortening Deng and Noah’s. One would assume Thibs has learned from his failings, but when asked if he would alter his heavy minutes policy, Thibs said no, and last season the Knicks star players averaged the highest minutes in the league (by some distance).

The new Knicks president of basketball operations, Leon Rose, portrayed Thibs as someone who could develop youngsters, bring back winning mentality to the Knicks and attract free agents. Well Thibs has refused to play and develop their rookies (other then perhaps Barrett) and given the Knicks recent re-signing flurry, they had no concrete interest from star free agents.

Although I believe the 76ers destroyed themselves with their all out Hinkie tank, that doesn’t mean a team can’t rebuild with youth while picking up assets through salary dumping, similar to what Memphis is currently doing and what the Celtics previously did following the Brooklyn trade.

Something that has become blatantly obvious to me is no matter how bad the Knicks play, their loyal fans will pack Madison Square Garden. If that’s the case, the Knicks should be the one team who could tank (in some form) without financial repercussions, but because the Knicks hired Thibs, they have most likely missed any chance of picking in the high lottery for the foreseeable future.

If you look at their recent drafting history it’s actually been quite poor, which surprisingly was something the Knicks previously did very well.

In 2018 they selected Kevin Knox with the 9th pick, Mikal Bridges was the very next pick, followed by Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Miles Bridges and then at 14, Michael Porter Jr…that selection is a disaster. In 2019 in which they missed out on Zion & Morant which was obviously tough but IMO picking RJ Barrett was the wrong move when De’Andre Hunter and Darius Garland were available, but perhaps at least not a horrible decision. The 2020 pick of Toppin is still a confusing one, he is an old fashioned power forward which is not valued in the current NBA. Toppin doesn’t protect the rim, stretch the floor or defend at a high rate. Someone who was still on the board and apparently worked out for the Knicks was Tyrese Haliburton.

So essentially without changing any of the Knicks recent decisions, except their draft choices, they could have a roster with Gilgeous-Alexander, Hunter and Haliburton.

IMO the Knicks are still a terrible organisation, please try and change my mind.

Knox was an awful pick, but quickly seems like a great pick for number 25. Barrett seems like he could be a solid pick as well. Randle was obviously a very good signing by them, as was Noel at what they paid him. Walker was a pretty low risk signing for them at 8 million a year. It is very possible toppin could be awful but if you compare them to a lot of other teams the last few years (look at Orlando), things certainly seem not awful for them.

Also why garland over Barrett?

[Moranis]

If the premise is that Dolan is a terrible owner, then I don't think you will find many objections.  The product on the floor isn't terrible though, decidedly mediocre, but not terrible.

[Ed Monix]

Knox was an awful pick, but quickly seems like a great pick for number 25. Barrett seems like he could be a solid pick as well. Randle was obviously a very good signing by them, as was Noel at what they paid him. Walker was a pretty low risk signing for them at 8 million a year. It is very possible toppin could be awful but if you compare them to a lot of other teams the last few years (look at Orlando), things certainly seem not awful for them.

I understand your point, that’s the consensus. But what I am suggesting is it’s all fools gold. Randle over performed last season and his statistics were inflated due to being the centre of the offence and playing huge minutes. He’s not a tradeable asset and he’s not taking you deep into the playoffs.

RJ Barrett looks solid but he’s someone that looks to be a solid starter on a contender, something which should be considered a failure for a number 3 pick. Barrett is very iso heavy yet inefficient, he’s not fast or particularly athletic and isn’t an elite defender.

By hiring Thibs, the Knicks have removed themselves from selecting elite young talent, something they have been sorely lacking.

The Knicks are very much in nba no man’s land.

[celticsclay]

Knox was an awful pick, but quickly seems like a great pick for number 25. Barrett seems like he could be a solid pick as well. Randle was obviously a very good signing by them, as was Noel at what they paid him. Walker was a pretty low risk signing for them at 8 million a year. It is very possible toppin could be awful but if you compare them to a lot of other teams the last few years (look at Orlando), things certainly seem not awful for them.

I understand your point, that’s the consensus. But what I am suggesting is it’s all fools gold. Randle over performed last season and his statistics were inflated due to being the centre of the offence and playing huge minutes. He’s not a tradeable asset and he’s not taking you deep into the playoffs.

RJ Barrett looks solid but he’s someone that looks to be a solid starter on a contender, something which should be considered a failure for a number 3 pick. Barrett is very iso heavy yet inefficient, he’s not fast or particularly athletic and isn’t an elite defender.

By hiring Thibs, the Knicks have removed themselves from selecting elite young talent, something they have been sorely lacking.

The Knicks are very much in nba no man’s land.

It’s possible. I think quickly, Barrett and toppin still have some upside. I’m not sure randle isn’t just someone like billups that got the game a bit later. He was certainly put in a bad situation to start his career in LA.

[Ed Monix]

why garland over Barrett?

Although I don’t believe RJ Barrett was a poor decision, I think Hunter and Garland are more modern players in comparison to Barrett. Garland in particular could be a future star, recently Steph Curry alluded to being a huge fan of the Cavs guard.

I may be completely wrong but Barrett seems to lack an elite skill. He’s not an knock down shooter or a three point specialist, he’s slow to cover nimble guards and not big enough to stop elite forwards.

[Ed Monix]

I think quickly, Barrett and toppin still have some upside. I’m not sure randle isn’t just someone like billups that got the game a bit later. He was certainly put in a bad situation to start his career in LA.

I completely agree with you regarding Randle and the Lakers. I think he has also changed his diet since signing with Knicks and his shooting improvement has helped the rest of his game immensely.

In regards to Toppin, Quickley and Barrett, yes they do have upside but how much? And if you packaged them in a trade, could you get a star player in return? I am very skeptical.

[celticsclay]

I think quickly, Barrett and toppin still have some upside. I’m not sure randle isn’t just someone like billups that got the game a bit later. He was certainly put in a bad situation to start his career in LA.

I completely agree with you regarding Randle and the Lakers. I think he has also changed his diet since signing with Knicks and his shooting improvement has helped the rest of his game immensely.

In regards to Toppin, Quickley and Barrett, yes they do have upside but how much? And if you packaged them in a trade, could you get a star player in return? I am very skeptical.

I will add mitchell as another random piece they have that could develop. Of the three I do think quickly, Barrett, toppin and a pick or two could get a lower level star. If we are not offering brown or Tatum this is better than anything we would offer for beal

[Moranis]

why garland over Barrett?

Although I don’t believe RJ Barrett was a poor decision, I think Hunter and Garland are more modern players in comparison to Barrett. Garland in particular could be a future star, recently Steph Curry alluded to being a huge fan of the Cavs guard.

I may be completely wrong but Barrett seems to lack an elite skill. He’s not an knock down shooter or a three point specialist, he’s slow to cover nimble guards and not big enough to stop elite forwards.

Barrett is coming off a season in which he shot 40.1% from 3 on over 4 attempts a game, which is better than what Garland has done (39.5% on around 5 attempts last season).  And he is a much better defender than Garland (at least so far). 

[Birdman]

Someone doesn’t like the Knicks lol but wait till Zion goes there as a FA and that’s all u will hear about

[Jiri Welsch]

The Knicks are one of two East teams (along with the Hawks) who decidedly overachieved last year. But they tinkered with their roster around the edges enough to at least remain competitive. My prediction is that they're a play-in team this year.

[jambr380]

Hard to disagree. Someone brought up Orlando, but they are ahead of where the Knicks are imo. They had a decent-ish team - like the Knicks have now - but traded Vucevic, Fournier, and Gordon for picks and are now in rebuilding mode. They even landed one of the big 4 in this year's draft.

The Knicks are going to be mediocre for a couple of years unless one of their young guys really blows up. At that time, they should go the ORL route, but I think we all know they won't. I do like the Kemba signing - I would love him on our team for $8M/yr. Oh well, not too worried about the Knicks this year, though. They will be lucky to make the playoffs and almost certainly will be a play-in team at the very best.

[Csfan1984]

I won't say they are bad but they aren't in the top 4 or looking like they will be any time soon. I do like their young players and vets. I expect them to be in the playoffs. I feel RJ will be as good as Gordon Hayward not sure if he becomes better than that. 

[Celtics2021]

The Knicks over-under is 41.5, while the Raptors are 35.5.  I’d reverse them.

[Who]

The Knicks over-under is 41.5, while the Raptors are 35.5.  I’d reverse them.

Why so for the Raptors? They lost Lowry. He was a key player for them. Have they replaced M.Gasol and Ibaka yet? The center position was a major problem for them last season.

I like their forwards (Anunoby, Siakam, Scottie Barnes, Boucher) and VanVleet (one guard) but do they have a supporting cast around them?