Author Topic: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues  (Read 6122 times)

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Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2021, 07:48:31 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Jaylen Brown is the best advocate for social change in the NBA. I don't think anyone comes close in my opinion.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2021, 07:55:48 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Many of those comments do nothing but foment racism. Favortism for one race over another isn't correcting anything, it's creating more of the injustice it purports to address. Most people aren't racists. Charles Barkley pointed out a few months ago, most people are good and don't hate anyone because of their race, but in some cases corporate interests are to incite racism, and they do it through movies, news media, social media, and sadly, sports. As one fake racist incident after another has shown us in recent years, the corporate elite demand for racism is far outweighed by the supply.

A young man like Jaylen is too ignorant and too unappreciative of the massive blessing this country is for someone like himself to understand what he's saying or what is really happening.

Re: some of the comments ITT, as someone pointed out, 70%+ of black children grow up in a home without a father. Stats have shown time and again that black children in a home with both parents fare very close economically to other races. White children with only one parent generally fare almost as poorly as their black counterparts. The media racist narrative also ignores that some brown-skinned, such as Asian and Indian-Asian, fare better economically on average than whites. What do those races have in common? Tight-knit family units that stay together.

Blacks aren't in prison at greater rates because of racism. They're in prison at greater levels because young, black men commit violent crime at a rate far higher than any other demographic. 3% of the population committing half of the violent crime, and yes, much of this is largely due to gangs. And the numbers have swelled, in part because of a crime bill about 30 years ago that overly-punished users of a certain type of drug, primarily used by young, black men, a crime bill co-authored by then Senator Joe Biden. An accomplishment he has boasted of many times.

Black leaders would have done well to listen to Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, rather than ostracizing him. They've allowed Lyndon Johnson and his welfare system to nearly destroy the black family.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2021, 08:52:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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A young man like Jaylen is too ignorant and too unappreciative of the massive blessing this country is for someone like himself to understand what he's saying or what is really happening.

This comment just oozes with the old racist idea of "those people" don't know anything.

Really a terrible way of trying to advocate for whatever it was you were trying to say.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 08:59:14 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2021, 09:06:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote
It's easy to look at this and worry about the poor white coaches that might not be hired even though they may be qualified. But, how does that compared to the decades of unqualified whites getting job after job after job while qualified blacks didn't get those jobs?

It was wrong to hire based upon race in the past, and it’s wrong now.

“Cry me a river for white guys” sounds a lot like “the sins of the father shall be revisited upon the sons”. 

When does that thinking stop?  Even the Old Testament limited that principle to three or four generations.  Affirmative action has been in place for around sixty years.  How many more do we allow discrimination?
Has fair hiring of blacks to coaching and front office positions actually been achieved yet? The numbers say no. Over a half century of whites getting those positions regardless of qualifications and yet whites still dominate the positions discussed in a black industry.

So yeah, if a year like this happens and a bunch of blacks get those positions, I won't be shedding any tears for qualified whites not getting hired because, today, most of these hires are qualified, which is the point Jaylen was making that you ignored.

There is simply no way that any of the teams that hired blacks are going to say they hired based on race(because they didn't) or that they hired anyone but the best, most highly qualified coach available to them(because they did believe they did).

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2021, 09:21:22 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
It's easy to look at this and worry about the poor white coaches that might not be hired even though they may be qualified. But, how does that compared to the decades of unqualified whites getting job after job after job while qualified blacks didn't get those jobs?

It was wrong to hire based upon race in the past, and it’s wrong now.

“Cry me a river for white guys” sounds a lot like “the sins of the father shall be revisited upon the sons”. 

When does that thinking stop?  Even the Old Testament limited that principle to three or four generations.  Affirmative action has been in place for around sixty years.  How many more do we allow discrimination?
Has fair hiring of blacks to coaching and front office positions actually been achieved yet? The numbers say no. Over a half century of whites getting those positions regardless of qualifications and yet whites still dominate the positions discussed in a black industry.

So yeah, if a year like this happens and a bunch of blacks get those positions, I won't be shedding any tears for qualified whites not getting hired because, today, most of these hires are qualified, which is the point Jaylen was making that you ignored.

There is simply no way that any of the teams that hired blacks are going to say they hired based on race(because they didn't) or that they hired anyone but the best, most highly qualified coach available to them(because they did believe they did).

What industries do we get to classify as "black industries", I wonder?  Because, blacks make up what, 11% - 13% of the population?  The pool of potential coaches isn't limited to former NBA players, so the percentage of black professionals versus white professionals seems to be of limited value.

Do we treat other industries like this?  I do primarily criminal defense work.  Blacks make up the plurality of those incarcerated nationwide.  Do we expect a plurality of our judges, attorneys, correctional officers, police officers, etc., to be black, as well?  Despite their respective makeups within the general population?

Having almost 50% of the league's coaches being black -- 4x their percentage of the population -- doesn't necessarily look like nefarious discrimination to me. 


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Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2021, 09:55:03 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Quote
It's easy to look at this and worry about the poor white coaches that might not be hired even though they may be qualified. But, how does that compared to the decades of unqualified whites getting job after job after job while qualified blacks didn't get those jobs?

It was wrong to hire based upon race in the past, and it’s wrong now.

“Cry me a river for white guys” sounds a lot like “the sins of the father shall be revisited upon the sons”. 

When does that thinking stop?  Even the Old Testament limited that principle to three or four generations.  Affirmative action has been in place for around sixty years.  How many more do we allow discrimination?
Has fair hiring of blacks to coaching and front office positions actually been achieved yet? The numbers say no. Over a half century of whites getting those positions regardless of qualifications and yet whites still dominate the positions discussed in a black industry.

So yeah, if a year like this happens and a bunch of blacks get those positions, I won't be shedding any tears for qualified whites not getting hired because, today, most of these hires are qualified, which is the point Jaylen was making that you ignored.

There is simply no way that any of the teams that hired blacks are going to say they hired based on race(because they didn't) or that they hired anyone but the best, most highly qualified coach available to them(because they did believe they did).

What industries do we get to classify as "black industries", I wonder?  Because, blacks make up what, 11% - 13% of the population?  The pool of potential coaches isn't limited to former NBA players, so the percentage of black professionals versus white professionals seems to be of limited value.

Do we treat other industries like this?  I do primarily criminal defense work.  Blacks make up the plurality of those incarcerated nationwide.  Do we expect a plurality of our judges, attorneys, correctional officers, police officers, etc., to be black, as well?  Despite their respective makeups within the general population?

Having almost 50% of the league's coaches being black -- 4x their percentage of the population -- doesn't necessarily look like nefarious discrimination to me.

Why are you using the racial breakdown of the gen pop? NBA coaches are former players - pro ball in the US or Europe, and the rest played college ball, mostly major D1. Here’s a 2019 breakdown.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-coaches-who-played-2019-3

Unsurprisingly, teams want to hire people who’ve learned from the best coaches, who’ve spent years learning Xs and Os, know how the league works. It doesn’t hurt if they also have the player’s perspective. Former NBA players are a pretty obvious talent pool.


Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2021, 10:22:59 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
It's easy to look at this and worry about the poor white coaches that might not be hired even though they may be qualified. But, how does that compared to the decades of unqualified whites getting job after job after job while qualified blacks didn't get those jobs?

It was wrong to hire based upon race in the past, and it’s wrong now.

“Cry me a river for white guys” sounds a lot like “the sins of the father shall be revisited upon the sons”. 

When does that thinking stop?  Even the Old Testament limited that principle to three or four generations.  Affirmative action has been in place for around sixty years.  How many more do we allow discrimination?
Has fair hiring of blacks to coaching and front office positions actually been achieved yet? The numbers say no. Over a half century of whites getting those positions regardless of qualifications and yet whites still dominate the positions discussed in a black industry.

So yeah, if a year like this happens and a bunch of blacks get those positions, I won't be shedding any tears for qualified whites not getting hired because, today, most of these hires are qualified, which is the point Jaylen was making that you ignored.

There is simply no way that any of the teams that hired blacks are going to say they hired based on race(because they didn't) or that they hired anyone but the best, most highly qualified coach available to them(because they did believe they did).

What industries do we get to classify as "black industries", I wonder?  Because, blacks make up what, 11% - 13% of the population?  The pool of potential coaches isn't limited to former NBA players, so the percentage of black professionals versus white professionals seems to be of limited value.

Do we treat other industries like this?  I do primarily criminal defense work.  Blacks make up the plurality of those incarcerated nationwide.  Do we expect a plurality of our judges, attorneys, correctional officers, police officers, etc., to be black, as well?  Despite their respective makeups within the general population?

Having almost 50% of the league's coaches being black -- 4x their percentage of the population -- doesn't necessarily look like nefarious discrimination to me.

Why are you using the racial breakdown of the gen pop? NBA coaches are former players - pro ball in the US or Europe, and the rest played college ball, mostly major D1. Here’s a 2019 breakdown.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-coaches-who-played-2019-3

Unsurprisingly, teams want to hire people who’ve learned from the best coaches, who’ve spent years learning Xs and Os, know how the league works. It doesn’t hurt if they also have the player’s perspective. Former NBA players are a pretty obvious talent pool.

Nine of 30 were former NBA players.

I'm not sure that Brad Stevens playing at DePauw (not DePaul), Thibs playing at Salem State or Budenholzer playing at Pomona makes much of a difference.  But, it sort of proves the point.  It seems like you're comfortable drawing from a talent pool of "played basketball in some capacity", from D-III to the NBA.  The racial breakdown of players who played any level of basketball is a heck of a lot different than the racial breakdown of players who played NBA basketball.

EDIT:  Taylor Jenkins (St. Mark's School Of Texas), Frank Vogel (Juanita College), Chris Finch (Franklin and Marshall), Wes Unseld Jr. (John Hopkins), Stephen Silas (Brown).  So, 25% of NBA coaches played no higher than D-III.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 10:51:11 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2021, 10:30:56 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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JB biggest racist and bigot in NBA?  I have no respect for his backwards opinions.  Nothing he says is courageous or intelligent- He just spouts the approved corporate nonsense. 




Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2021, 11:21:06 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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JB biggest racist and bigot in NBA?  I have no respect for his backwards opinions.  Nothing he says is courageous or intelligent- He just spouts the approved corporate nonsense.

Why do you believe he is a bigot?

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2021, 04:19:03 AM »

Offline gouki88

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JB biggest racist and bigot in NBA?  I have no respect for his backwards opinions.  Nothing he says is courageous or intelligent- He just spouts the approved corporate nonsense.
Back to the 19th century you go.
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Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2021, 05:59:52 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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JB biggest racist and bigot in NBA?  I have no respect for his backwards opinions.  Nothing he says is courageous or intelligent- He just spouts the approved corporate nonsense.

That's right. Hopefully he can learn to see the bigger picture of what is really going on. He's a celebrity, but also really young. And how much time can someone really invest in social and political research while being a NBA basketball player? Most of these top athletes live in a bubble and don't have a clue of what is going on in the real world.

On one hand we do have to appreciate the social involvement of a young man as Brown and his willingness to actively speak on this subject. But the praise he's receiving could counteract as a stop to his growth as a person. In that case he would just be another tool ready to be used for other agendas.

I'm not saying that Brown is a dumb guy by the way, but many so called smart people tend to become self righteous and it makes them uncritical to their own beliefs and actions. In that sense I don't have a particular high faith in Brown considering his environment.

Right now I'm just viewing Brown as a very good basketball player and don't care about his speeches. But I'm a little worried that his ambitions on the political matter can become unnecessary distractions for the Celtics team.


Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2021, 06:21:14 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Surely this thread should be in the politics section?

As far as I'm aware, Charlie don't surf and Lyndon Johnson never hooped.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2021, 07:18:52 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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And how much time can someone really invest in social and political research while being a NBA basketball player?
I saw almost the exact same thing said a couple of offseasons ago when Jaylen was doing some touring across Europe and America gathering info about social issues. People complained because they wanted him to concentrate on his game and develop more.

Turns out, Jaylen found courts and gyms everywhere he went and was spending hours and hours a day working out and working on his game while also spending time traveling and educating himself. That next season, Jaylen exploded and averaged 20 PPG.

Turns out Jaylen CAN actually walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 07:29:26 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2021, 08:23:16 AM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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Back to the 19th century you go.

19th century = hire guys with same skin color - which is what you are advocating. 

JB is standard pseudo-intellectual college kid.  He says nothing courageous or that is not corporately approved.  By any rational basis what he advocates is bigoted and 'racist'.   There is nothing admirable about his insistence to hire certain color of coach.  If Luka demanded a white coach, I doubt you or  the corporations would be so supportive.  US is probably the least racist place on earth and JB is top .1% privileged.   

Re: Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2021, 08:49:21 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Under this system, the sons of a rich black man benefit more than those of a white in generational poverty.  That’s not equity.

My ancestral history is filled with tales of woe, including fleeing what was essentially a ethnicity-based genocide.  My dad grew up living in a house with a dirt floor.  My mother’s family wad riddled with alcoholism and mental illness.  My mother is deceased, a victim of suicide.  My father is now disabled, a victim of cancer that was gifted to him from the drinking water at a military base he served at. I’m first generation college, and I’m under a staggering amount of college and grad school debt.

Where’s my equal playing field?

People are falling into the trap.  The trap is to make any well intentioned action or discussion involving race into something divisive.  It is easy to do.  These are complex issues.

As to Roy, there is no doubt that not every white male has been giving everything on a sliver platter but to your case specifically, you worked hard and succeeded against plenty of head winds but do you acknowledge that if in addition to all that, your skin was also dark, that it would have been even harder?  I think in general, that is the case, not in every case, but in general, there are going to be greater headwinds for African Americans and other minorities, be it coaching or anything.

It seems so hard to say just let the best man (or woman) win.  It should be easy.  Pick the best coach you feel will help your team win.  Pick the best employee that will help your company succeed.  Some companies see value, good for their brand, in having a diverse work force and make an effort to hire more minorities.  A professional sports team may feel that a black coach, even if not the most experienced, is a good message to send to their team.  These are business decisions.

I will say that having programs that target elevating minorities and underserved communities is a good investment for the country.  It should not be seen that it is at the expense of someone else.  Is a program to help minority inner city kids anti-white kids?  I don't feel it is correct or productive to view it that way.  If you can help some young minority kids not end up in jail, that is a good thing.  It is hard to execute programs like that but that should not stop you from trying.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 08:58:10 AM by Vermont Green »