CB Article: JB and JT Look to be Better Playmakers

[boscel33]

This is an interesting read about what Udoka has to say about his two superstars:

"In an interview with ESPN’s Jalen & Jacoby, Udoka said, “we’ve got multiple handlers, multiple playmakers, and that’s an area we need to see growth with Jaylen and Jayson. It’s not just scoring the basketball; it’s those guys initiating the offense and being better playmakers. That’s the next step in their evolution.” Udoka voiced a similar sentiment while working with Tatum and Team USA in Vegas."

That's one reason I hated that GH left.  I thought that he could mentor, JB specially, in the ball handling playmaking role that he was so good at.

Let's hope they can improve here.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/9/24/22405051/jayson-tatum-and-jaylen-brown-look-to-become-better-playmakers-next-season-boston-celtics-ime-udoka

[greg683x]

An improvement in playmaking skills would be great.  I’d also like to see them play together more.  It seems like a lot of the time, if one of them has the ball, the other clears out and just goes and stands in the corner, especially Jaylen.

I’m not trying to compare them to Pierce and Walker, namely bc they have a much higher ceiling than they did as a duo, but Pierce and Walker played very well together.  They had plays that featured both of them, not just isos.  What first comes to mind is the play the had where Antoine had the ball behind the 3point line and Pierce would box his guy out under the basket and Antoine would lob the ball over to Pierce for what always seemed like an easy 2.  If the defender sagged of Walker he had an open 3.  It’ll make things so much easier for them if they made the defense have to account for the both of them at the same time.

[Rosco917]

This is an interesting read about what Udoka has to say about his two superstars:

"In an interview with ESPN’s Jalen & Jacoby, Udoka said, “we’ve got multiple handlers, multiple playmakers, and that’s an area we need to see growth with Jaylen and Jayson. It’s not just scoring the basketball; it’s those guys initiating the offense and being better playmakers. That’s the next step in their evolution.” Udoka voiced a similar sentiment while working with Tatum and Team USA in Vegas."

That's one reason I hated that GH left.  I thought that he could mentor, JB specially, in the ball handling playmaking role that he was so good at.

Let's hope they can improve here.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/9/24/22405051/jayson-tatum-and-jaylen-brown-look-to-become-better-playmakers-next-season-boston-celtics-ime-udoka

This will be the key to the success of the coming season. Jaylen is an especially poor playmaker, and the reason I prefer to see him at SF. I've seen him go 3 full games in a row without an assist. I'm not sure Jaylen would have been open to being mentored by GH.

While Tatum is slowly improving and it remains a key to his future development and value. It's been pointed out many times that they don't really play together. Let's hope this coach can get through to both.


 But, all the same, this is a key to the success of the coming season and there after.

[Vermont Green]

"Playmaking" is an over used term and often misused in my opinion.  It seemed to me that the idea of the comment was more assists and facilitation of others.  That is one type of play to be made but not the only type.  Driving to the hoop and getting fouled is a play to be made too.

I feel that Brown and Tatum make plenty of plays with the exception that both could draw more fouls and in particular Tatum, needs to anticipate and deal better with double teams.  Dealing with double teams is about the guy with the ball but also the spacing and movement of the rest of the team.

I don't think there needs to be a focus on getting more Brown and Tatum assists per say.   When you pass out of a double team, the good look for someone may be after 2 or 3 passes so this isn't just about Tatum's and Brown's assist numbers.

[Rosco917]

"Playmaking" is an over used term and often misused in my opinion.  It seemed to me that the idea of the comment was more assists and facilitation of others.  That is one type of play to be made but not the only type.  Driving to the hoop and getting fouled is a play to be made too.

I feel that Brown and Tatum make plenty of plays with the exception that both could draw more fouls and in particular Tatum, needs to anticipate and deal better with double teams.  Dealing with double teams is about the guy with the ball but also the spacing and movement of the rest of the team.

I don't think there needs to be a focus on getting more Brown and Tatum assists per say.   When you pass out of a double team, the good look for someone may be after 2 or 3 passes so this isn't just about Tatum's and Brown's assist numbers.

How ever you want to frame it...if possible a bit more Bird, Magic and Lebron will never hurt. Multiple players getting open looks, no matter if it's after 2 or 3 passes stresses out defenses, and gets pace moving at both ends of the court.

[Vermont Green]

"Playmaking" is an over used term and often misused in my opinion.  It seemed to me that the idea of the comment was more assists and facilitation of others.  That is one type of play to be made but not the only type.  Driving to the hoop and getting fouled is a play to be made too.

I feel that Brown and Tatum make plenty of plays with the exception that both could draw more fouls and in particular Tatum, needs to anticipate and deal better with double teams.  Dealing with double teams is about the guy with the ball but also the spacing and movement of the rest of the team.

I don't think there needs to be a focus on getting more Brown and Tatum assists per say.   When you pass out of a double team, the good look for someone may be after 2 or 3 passes so this isn't just about Tatum's and Brown's assist numbers.

How ever you want to frame it...if possible a bit more Bird, Magic and Lebron will never hurt. Multiple players getting open looks, no matter if it's after 2 or 3 passes stresses out defenses, and gets pace moving at both ends of the court.

I agree, Bird, Magic, LeBron all could/can kill you when you double team them.  It was a big part of what made them great players and made their teams great.  No doubt that Tatum in particular needs that in his game if he is going to get to the next level.  Magic had the additional ingredient that he could take the ball as a PG and make things happen in transition or fast break.  Tatum is probably not going to become that and I don't think he needs to.  For now, just make them pay when they double team.  Single team, I am happy to see him take a good shot or take it to the hoop to draw a foul, especially if there has been a switch and you have a favorable match up.  No need to look to pass more in that situation.

The key with double teams is to see the double coming and start the counter play before the double gets to you.  Tatum had a tendency to wait too long.  He is probably still learning how to recognize it is coming.  There is also the element that the rest of the team needs to react accordingly.  As soon as your man leaves you, you need to cut or otherwise move to find a good spot to be a target.  But you should be moving to make defensive adjustments harder, not just standing in the corner or where ever.  This team off ball movement was not great last season in my opinion.  The result should often be a fairly simple pass.  It doesn't need to some play to be made that gets on ESPN.  Kind of like a football team that takes what the defense gives you.

I expect to see improvements in all these things, better recognition from Tatum/Brown, better team off ball movement, better overall team passing/execution.  Much of this may need to start with Tatum/Brown but that is only the first step.  Good coaches are going to throw the kitchen sink at Tatum and to some degree Brown.  The whole team needs to be ready for that, not just Tatum.  If our coaching focus is only on Tatum and Brown, that will not be enough.  Instead of Tatum looking for a hero shot, he will be looking for a hero pass.  Neither is going to get him or the team to the next level.  That is why I have this kind of pet peeve about the emphasis on "playmaking".  I just feel it often gets misconstrued.

[droopdog7]

Tatum has potential to be a better playmaker, but I saw him struggle a bit last year when the narrative came out (about them not passing).  His first instinct is still to score and passing when he gets an advantage is something he has to think about.  Tatum almost always shoots the ball when he gets into the lane, even against significant contests.  Would like to see him pass the ball out to open shooter more often to get them into the game as well.

Jaylen is another story.  His vision and feel for the game has definitely improved from atrocious when he first got into the league.  He used run into the defense and make bad mistakes all the time.  Today he doesn't make those kind of mistakes nearly as much but his playmaking for others is basically at zero.  When Jaylen drives into the lane and has to pass, it's almost always out of desperation and it generally looks bad.  I feel like moving from that to even an average playmaker may be a bridge too far for him.   

[nickagneta]

Tatum has potential to be a better playmaker, but I saw him struggle a bit last year when the narrative came out (about them not passing).  His first instinct is still to score and passing when he gets an advantage is something he has to think about.  Tatum almost always shoots the ball when he gets into the lane, even against significant contests.  Would like to see him pass the ball out to open shooter more often to get them into the game as well.

Jaylen is another story.  His vision and feel for the game has definitely improved from atrocious when he first got into the league.  He used run into the defense and make bad mistakes all the time.  Today he doesn't make those kind of mistakes nearly as much but his playmaking for others is basically at zero.  When Jaylen drives into the lane and has to pass, it's almost always out of desperation and it generally looks bad.  I feel like moving from that to even an average playmaker may be a bridge too far for him.

You never liked Jaylen. You crapped all over him for three years, so your comical observation that he has near zero playmaking ability really shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also, when going to the basket, Jaylen is just better at it than Tatum. He finishes through contact. Finishes with both hands. Has a number of different ways and floaters to finish that Tatum doesn't. If JB got even half way fair calls, he would be living at the line.

[droopdog7]

Tatum has potential to be a better playmaker, but I saw him struggle a bit last year when the narrative came out (about them not passing).  His first instinct is still to score and passing when he gets an advantage is something he has to think about.  Tatum almost always shoots the ball when he gets into the lane, even against significant contests.  Would like to see him pass the ball out to open shooter more often to get them into the game as well.

Jaylen is another story.  His vision and feel for the game has definitely improved from atrocious when he first got into the league.  He used run into the defense and make bad mistakes all the time.  Today he doesn't make those kind of mistakes nearly as much but his playmaking for others is basically at zero.  When Jaylen drives into the lane and has to pass, it's almost always out of desperation and it generally looks bad.  I feel like moving from that to even an average playmaker may be a bridge too far for him.

You never liked Jaylen. You crapped all over him for three years, so your comical observation that he has near zero playmaking ability really shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also, when going to the basket, Jaylen is just better at it than Tatum. He finishes through contact. Finishes with both hands. Has a number of different ways and floaters to finish that Tatum doesn't. If JB got even half way fair calls, he would be living at the line.

Instead of attacking me, how about attack the post.  And your last comment shows the complete bias you have and your view can't be trusted (a lot more than anything i said).  No, the league isn't having meetings to discuss how to screw jaylen brown.  No, he doesn't get an unfair whistle.

[nickagneta]

Tatum has potential to be a better playmaker, but I saw him struggle a bit last year when the narrative came out (about them not passing).  His first instinct is still to score and passing when he gets an advantage is something he has to think about.  Tatum almost always shoots the ball when he gets into the lane, even against significant contests.  Would like to see him pass the ball out to open shooter more often to get them into the game as well.

Jaylen is another story.  His vision and feel for the game has definitely improved from atrocious when he first got into the league.  He used run into the defense and make bad mistakes all the time.  Today he doesn't make those kind of mistakes nearly as much but his playmaking for others is basically at zero.  When Jaylen drives into the lane and has to pass, it's almost always out of desperation and it generally looks bad.  I feel like moving from that to even an average playmaker may be a bridge too far for him.

You never liked Jaylen. You crapped all over him for three years, so your comical observation that he has near zero playmaking ability really shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also, when going to the basket, Jaylen is just better at it than Tatum. He finishes through contact. Finishes with both hands. Has a number of different ways and floaters to finish that Tatum doesn't. If JB got even half way fair calls, he would be living at the line.

Instead of attacking me, how about attack the post.  And your last comment shows the complete bias you have and your view can't be trusted (a lot more than anything i said).  No, the league isn't having meetings to discuss how to screw jaylen brown.  No, he doesn't get an unfair whistle.

I am sorry. What part of my comment about your position isn't true? Are you saying you didn't crap all over Jaylen for 3 years, because I can simply repost your posts from that time period to prove my point if you need a memory refresher?

Do I love Brown and his game, yeah, I do not hide that or pretend I don't. But if you think JB has near zero playmaking ability or doesn't get the whistle respect that other top 25 players in the league do, you simply aren't watching the games.

[droopdog7]

Tatum has potential to be a better playmaker, but I saw him struggle a bit last year when the narrative came out (about them not passing).  His first instinct is still to score and passing when he gets an advantage is something he has to think about.  Tatum almost always shoots the ball when he gets into the lane, even against significant contests.  Would like to see him pass the ball out to open shooter more often to get them into the game as well.

Jaylen is another story.  His vision and feel for the game has definitely improved from atrocious when he first got into the league.  He used run into the defense and make bad mistakes all the time.  Today he doesn't make those kind of mistakes nearly as much but his playmaking for others is basically at zero.  When Jaylen drives into the lane and has to pass, it's almost always out of desperation and it generally looks bad.  I feel like moving from that to even an average playmaker may be a bridge too far for him.

You never liked Jaylen. You crapped all over him for three years, so your comical observation that he has near zero playmaking ability really shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also, when going to the basket, Jaylen is just better at it than Tatum. He finishes through contact. Finishes with both hands. Has a number of different ways and floaters to finish that Tatum doesn't. If JB got even half way fair calls, he would be living at the line.

Instead of attacking me, how about attack the post.  And your last comment shows the complete bias you have and your view can't be trusted (a lot more than anything i said).  No, the league isn't having meetings to discuss how to screw jaylen brown.  No, he doesn't get an unfair whistle.

I am sorry. What part of my comment about your position isn't true? Are you saying you didn't crap all over Jaylen for 3 years, because I can simply repost your posts from that time period to prove my point if you need a memory refresher?

Do I love Brown and his game, yeah, I do not hide that or pretend I don't. But if you think JB has near zero playmaking ability or doesn't get the whistle respect that other top 25 players in the league do, you simply aren't watching the games.

First, let me make sure it is clear.  Yes, I think Jaylen has near zero ability to make plays for others.
 In terms of getting the whistle, no, I don't think he gets an unfair shake.  I am watching the games and I think he gets about as fair a shake in that respect as you could possibly get.

[Hoopvortex]

Both Tatum and Brown already took big steps up with their playmaking last year.

In the 2019/2020 season, both players had career highs in assist percentage, with Brown at 9.7% and Tatum at 14.5%. In the 2020/2021 season, Jaylen‘s was 16.5% and Tatum’s was 21.3% - both of them significantly better.

Boston was snakebit last year, but there were signs of hope as well.