Author Topic: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)  (Read 67783 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #105 on: September 02, 2021, 11:46:09 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11414
  • Tommy Points: 870
Quote
Golden State Warriors (+300)
Minnesota Timberwolves (+400)
Sacramento Kings (+600)
San Antonio Spurs (+800)
Toronto Raptors (+800)
Anyone else (+1100)

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-betting-the-warriors-are-the-favorite-to-land-ben-simmons-if-he-gets-traded-142445864.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABfYCvvOP3YbFbabQce1twaS6nkKrhLqGqO1JvPbmFBs2vZPxgE_WAlml3CXSsP-ZD0rgnptrcpPxOBVXCKNRdCYPTRUM3vdeFVivCrxqHhStLwwZ0CQj4G91EOKUCt9aTIzEfQ54-IZP-oCn_CqJSgDAbN_x5wYJSOV9unnOJYK

Just saw this on Yahoo Sports (based on BetMGM).  Their commentary on SAC was:

Quote
The Kings could package Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley and some draft picks in an offer to the Sixers. Would that be enough? Hield and Seth Curry on the outside would provide a ton of spacing for Embiid down low, but the Sixers would still be in need of another primary ballhandler. If a trade package centered around Hield was enough for Philadelphia, could the Sixers work another deal to get a starting-caliber point guard?

So my "how can we get involved" thinking was if PHI would need a PG, we send them Schroder and we take Bagley and maybe a pick from SAC.  So Philly gets Hield, Schroder and a pick from SAC.  Not a great haul but a solid backcourt for them and we get a young PF who has started 52 NBA games.

That article lacks credibility. It favors the GSW getting Simmons, and says they may have to part with Kuminga, Moody, Wiggens (salary match), Wiseman and additional first round picks.  LOL.  GSW wouldn't do anything close to that.

I agree, that is why I didn't feature that part.  I would not bet on GSW but remember, betting odds are based on how they think people will bet, not on what they think is most likely to happen.  I don't think MIN, SAS, or TOR are very likely either.  But the odds and the article are two different things.  The odds are the odds.  They are real.  You can bet at MGM based on those odds.  They have made GSW the favorite and put their money behind this.  The article did not make them the favorite, MGM did.  I think you are mixing that up.  Your quarrel is with MGM, not the article.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 11:54:20 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #106 on: September 02, 2021, 11:58:40 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8189
  • Tommy Points: 552
You could have a long thread about all the ways that PHI has botched things but in the summer of 2019, they gave Harris 5 years / $180M and let Jimmy Butler go to Miami for 4 years / $142M in a sign and trade where they got Josh Richardson.  Then the next year gave Simmons 5 years / $177M.  Oh and in that wonderful summer of 2019, they also signed Al Horford for 4 years / $109M.

They let the best player go, overpaid the likely worst (and are stuck with Harris), and now they are going to trade off Simmons.  Richardson and a pick (turned out to be Bey) were traded to Dallas for Seth Curry (who has played well).  Horford and picks was dumped to OKC for Danny Green.

And yet somehow, they are a pretty good team.
Butler wanted to go to Miami.  Miami had tried to get him from Minny before the Sixers did.  I doubt there was anything the Sixers could have done to keep him.  Even if they had given him a 5yr Max, replaced the coach and traded Simmons, I think Butler would have forced his way to Miami eventually. 

Harris is obviously overpaid but a lot of NBA players are overpaid.  Harris has performed well for the Sixers.  Doc seems to get the most out of him.  I actually thought Horford was going to be a good addition for them so I was way wrong on that.  The predominant reason they are good is because of Embiid.  He gives them a high floor regardless. 

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #107 on: September 02, 2021, 12:13:57 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33656
  • Tommy Points: 1549
https://twitter.com/JoelEmbiid/status/1433067490481946626
https://twitter.com/JoelEmbiid/status/1433074232443944964

Embiid coming to Simmons' defense earlier today (sorry if I missed it, didn't see it posted). Not sure if it's true or he's just being a good guy about it, but good on him either way for backing up his teammate.
well yeah after he called him out and contributed a great deal to the current situation.

Embiid says he got booed and got better not exactly a ringing endorsement of Simmons.
Fans booing is no where near the same thing as your team's best player, coach, and executives singling you out and calling you out publicly.  Fans boo all the time, your team doesn't throw you over the bus, run you over, and then back up over you and do it all over again.  That is the reason Simmons wants out and doesn't want to report.  That is the reason he wants out so bad he'd report to Minnesota, Cleveland, etc.  He just wants away from an organization that doesn't want him and made it known to the world that they don't want him. 

I feel kind of icky supporting Simmons as I really don't like him, but in this situation I totally get it.  The Sixers created this mess and now must live with the consequences of their actions.

They needed to build around Simmons or Build around Embiid. They don't fit together and it's been known for a long time now. You are right the team, coach and Management threw Simmons under the bus and all they want now is to get assets for him. It's a mess.
The thing is on the court, the Simmons/Embiid duo actually has a very strong net rating (and has for years).  Before the Butler trade, they actually had the team set up very well to maximize that lineup, but they made the Butler trade and changed the whole makeup of the team.  They got antsy instead of just letting those 2 grow with a solid supporting cast (RoCo, Saric, and then shooters like JJ).  They had the team set up better last year, but Curry and Green just weren't collectively good enough players in the backcourt and Harris is much more suited as a #3 scorer instead of the #2 scorer he is in Philly.  The problem has never really been Embiid/Simmons, it has been how they've set the roster up around them that has been the biggest failure.  And now they've spoiled Simmons to the point he wants nothing to do with anyone in the organization.  Just complete and total mismanagement the last several years.

I was watching a game the other day of that Philly team before the Jimmy Butler trade and was taken aback at how good they were. I had completely forgotten how much shooting and firepower they had on that roster before they made those moves.

Redick, Covington and Saric next to Simmons and Embiid. So many awkward matchups for opponents in the open floor. Saric and Simmons with their ball-handling and passing at 6-10. Redick and Covington lighting it up from downtown.

I'm not saying they were better then than post-trade or even now but they were darn good. Much better than I had remembered.

And much more fun to watch as well. They really ran the floor and stretched out the court. Let Simmons drive more. More dribble hand offs between the perimeter guys and with Embiid pulling centers in and out of the paint. Unsettling team defenses with their movement and quick passing.
I do think they panicked some when they lost in 5 to the Celtics in the ECS in 2018.  I think they, imo, incorrectly believed they couldn't get to the promised land with the team they had, so they started looking to move the supporting cast for a 3rd star.  That might have worked had the 3rd star not been a terrible fit with Embiid and Simmons like Butler was, but I do think if they would have stayed the course, they would have been better in the long run.  They also shouldn't have let Belinelli and Ilyasova leave.  They provided such a nice dimension off the bench.

Embiid, Saric, Covington, Redick, and Simmons I do think should have been given at least 1 more year as a starting 5.  Redick was getting older and would need to be replaced eventually, but you can always find a good shooting 5th man type player (I mean they have Curry right now - they also still had Fultz then, who was probably always going to at least be ok).  Other than that though I liked the fit of that team.  And Embiid/Simmons had an incredible net rating as a duo (I believe they led the league) because they had such great shooting and spacing around them.  They've tried to mimic that again, but the players just aren't collectively as good (Harris obviously a better player, but they don't seem to really get the most out of him as he isn't a great fit). 

I also think they dumped Fultz in another one of those panic type moves.  They should have stayed the course with him. 

They have really made a lot of confounding decisions that just don't make any sort of sense in either the short term or long term.  I guess that is what happens when you leave a Colangelo in charge and then follow that up with a player that has no experience in the front office (Brand).  Morey is a different sort of animal and he definitely understood what he needed to do (i.e. add shooting and spacing), he just didn't get good enough players.  And the guy they should be looking to move is Harris not Simmons, but they've ruined the Simmons relationship so badly, they now have to move him (and won't get anywhere close to equal value).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 01:23:17 PM by Moranis »
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #108 on: September 02, 2021, 01:55:34 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2116
  • Tommy Points: 94
At this point, the best that the 76ers can hope for Simmons is turning him into Wiggins and Wiseman. This trade would be a win-win for both sides:

Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Wiggins
Wiseman
1-3 Future 1st round pick(s)

If you’re Philly, you’re gaining some perimeter shooting and a quality big prospect to pair with Embiid (and to make up for the lost production in the paint of Simmons). If you’re the Warriors, you slot Klay at the 3 and play the Curry brothers in your backcourt. Dray + Simmons is one heck of a defensive/facilitation frontcourt. Couple it with their young prospects, and they’re title contenders this year (if Klay returns to form) and their future is bright. Meanwhile, the 76ers get to move on with two quality starters and a first-round pick or two to save face.

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #109 on: September 02, 2021, 03:36:57 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
At this point, the best that the 76ers can hope for Simmons is turning him into Wiggins and Wiseman. This trade would be a win-win for both sides:

Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Wiggins
Wiseman
1-3 Future 1st round pick(s)

If you’re Philly, you’re gaining some perimeter shooting and a quality big prospect to pair with Embiid (and to make up for the lost production in the paint of Simmons). If you’re the Warriors, you slot Klay at the 3 and play the Curry brothers in your backcourt. Dray + Simmons is one heck of a defensive/facilitation frontcourt. Couple it with their young prospects, and they’re title contenders this year (if Klay returns to form) and their future is bright. Meanwhile, the 76ers get to move on with two quality starters and a first-round pick or two to save face.
Neither Wiseman nor Embiid are PFs, so I don't get bringing him in. Philly already tried the two center lineup with horrid results.

And...they actually lose some perimeter shooting because Curry is an elite outside shooter where Wiggins is average.

Don't see a trade like this happening.

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #110 on: September 02, 2021, 03:40:45 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43592
  • Tommy Points: 3178
At this point, the best that the 76ers can hope for Simmons is turning him into Wiggins and Wiseman. This trade would be a win-win for both sides:

Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Wiggins
Wiseman
1-3 Future 1st round pick(s)

If you’re Philly, you’re gaining some perimeter shooting and a quality big prospect to pair with Embiid (and to make up for the lost production in the paint of Simmons). If you’re the Warriors, you slot Klay at the 3 and play the Curry brothers in your backcourt. Dray + Simmons is one heck of a defensive/facilitation frontcourt. Couple it with their young prospects, and they’re title contenders this year (if Klay returns to form) and their future is bright. Meanwhile, the 76ers get to move on with two quality starters and a first-round pick or two to save face.
Neither Wiseman nor Embiid are PFs, so I don't get bringing him in. Philly already tried the two center lineup with horrid results.

And...they actually lose some perimeter shooting because Curry is an elite outside shooter where Wiggins is average.

Don't see a trade like this happening.

I don't see this either but Wiseman is an easily tradeable asset.

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #111 on: September 02, 2021, 03:45:28 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43592
  • Tommy Points: 3178
Three-way trade where we get Marvin Bagley:

Bagley has talent but desperately needs a change of scenery. I like a like up of Horford, Bagley, Tatum, Brown, Smart



https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/09/02/boston-celtics-multi-team-simmons-trade/

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2021, 03:45:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58799
  • Tommy Points: -25627
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
At this point, the best that the 76ers can hope for Simmons is turning him into Wiggins and Wiseman. This trade would be a win-win for both sides:

Simmons
Seth Curry

For

Wiggins
Wiseman
1-3 Future 1st round pick(s)

If you’re Philly, you’re gaining some perimeter shooting and a quality big prospect to pair with Embiid (and to make up for the lost production in the paint of Simmons). If you’re the Warriors, you slot Klay at the 3 and play the Curry brothers in your backcourt. Dray + Simmons is one heck of a defensive/facilitation frontcourt. Couple it with their young prospects, and they’re title contenders this year (if Klay returns to form) and their future is bright. Meanwhile, the 76ers get to move on with two quality starters and a first-round pick or two to save face.
Neither Wiseman nor Embiid are PFs, so I don't get bringing him in. Philly already tried the two center lineup with horrid results.

And...they actually lose some perimeter shooting because Curry is an elite outside shooter where Wiggins is average.

Don't see a trade like this happening.

Yeah, I don't think GSW is a good fit.

Draymond would have to go, and maybe Philly takes him as a Simmons substitute (without the scoring).  But who else do you add in? 

Draymond + Kuminga + Moody + picks for Simmons?  It somehow seems to be light for Philly but not worth it for Golden State at the same time.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #113 on: September 02, 2021, 04:03:27 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11414
  • Tommy Points: 870
Three-way trade where we get Marvin Bagley:

Bagley has talent but desperately needs a change of scenery. I like a like up of Horford, Bagley, Tatum, Brown, Smart



https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/09/02/boston-celtics-multi-team-simmons-trade/

This trade has us getting Bagley for a 2023 Protected First Round Pick.  I would do that trade.  But I am not so sure about the rest, particularly the part where SAC sends Mitchell to PHI.  (The Hield part makes sense).

I had presented a similar idea at the top of this page (unfavorably received) where we sent Schroder to Philly (who needs a PG if they trade Simmons) and get Bagley and a pick from SAC.  I think SAC keeping Davion Mitchell but giving us a first (reasonably protected) and Philly getting Schroder makes more sense for both SAC and Philly.  Philly would want the Vet PG over the rookie and SAC would want to keep the promising rookie.

Summary:

BOS:   Bagley and a protected pick from SAC
SAC:   Simmons
PHI:    Hield, Schroder, unprotected Pick from SAC

SAC ends up with Simmons for Bagley, Heild, and two picks (instead of Bagley, Heild, Mitchell and 2 picks as the article says).  I don't know when Schroder can be traded so this probably doesn't work.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 04:32:27 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2021, 04:17:34 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43592
  • Tommy Points: 3178
Three-way trade where we get Marvin Bagley:

Bagley has talent but desperately needs a change of scenery. I like a like up of Horford, Bagley, Tatum, Brown, Smart



https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/09/02/boston-celtics-multi-team-simmons-trade/

This trade has us getting Bagley for a 2023 Protected First Round Pick.  I would do that trade.  But I am not so sure about the rest, particularly the part where SAC sends Mitchell to PHI.  (The Hield part makes sense).

I had presented a similar idea at the top of this page (unfavorably received) where we sent Schroder to Philly (who needs a PG if they trade Simmons) and get Bagley and a pick from SAC.  I think SAC keeping Donovan Mitchell but giving us a first (reasonably protected) and Philly getting Schroder makes more sense for both SAC and Philly.  Philly would want the Vet PG over the rookie and SAC would want to keep the promising rookie.

Summary:

BOS:   Bagley and a protected pick from SAC
SAC:   Simmons
PHI:    Hield, Schroder, unprotected Pick from SAC

SAC ends up with Simmons for Bagley, Heild, and two picks (instead of Bagley, Heild, Mitchell and 2 picks as the article says).  I don't know when Schroder can be traded so this probably doesn't work.

Picking up Bagley for a late first is a no-brainer for The Celtics. 

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2021, 05:28:55 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2723
  • Tommy Points: 307
Bagley can't shoot, isn't much of a passer, offers very little in terms of rim protection. But other than that, he's great..... :D

Really not sure what people think we'd be getting in him and his $11M salary. TL is a much better player and fit.

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2021, 05:32:04 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Bagley can't shoot, isn't much of a passer, offers very little in terms of rim protection. But other than that, he's great..... :D

Really not sure what people think we'd be getting in him and his $11M salary. TL is a much better player and fit.
He's a developing shooter (34% on 2 attempts per game), but other than that I tend to agree - his lack of passing really hurts. He just hasn't really improved besides his shooting.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2021, 05:38:07 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2723
  • Tommy Points: 307
Bagley can't shoot, isn't much of a passer, offers very little in terms of rim protection. But other than that, he's great..... :D

Really not sure what people think we'd be getting in him and his $11M salary. TL is a much better player and fit.
He's a developing shooter (34% on 2 attempts per game), but other than that I tend to agree - his lack of passing really hurts. He just hasn't really improved besides his shooting.
He made 30 of 96 as a rookie, and 37 of 108 in his 3rd year. That tiny % improvement is likely not something we can point to as real improvement when we're talking about so few attempts. To me, his FT shooting sinking into the 50s is a little more telling. 77 of 134 is just bad.

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #118 on: September 02, 2021, 05:47:29 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Bagley can't shoot, isn't much of a passer, offers very little in terms of rim protection. But other than that, he's great..... :D

Really not sure what people think we'd be getting in him and his $11M salary. TL is a much better player and fit.
He's a developing shooter (34% on 2 attempts per game), but other than that I tend to agree - his lack of passing really hurts. He just hasn't really improved besides his shooting.
He made 30 of 96 as a rookie, and 37 of 108 in his 3rd year. That tiny % improvement is likely not something we can point to as real improvement when we're talking about so few attempts. To me, his FT shooting sinking into the 50s is a little more telling. 77 of 134 is just bad.
It is a tiny improvement, but 30 makes in 62 games compared with 37 makes in 43 games is significant - he went from making 0.5 threes a game to 0.9 and doing so at a better percentage.

His free throw shooting confuses me. 69% on a steady amount of attempts as a rookie, 81% in 13 games as a second year player and back into the 50s this year. He's just a strange player.

Imagine taking him over Luka
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Simmons Wants Trade / Not Going To Report To Camp (CBS Report)
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2021, 05:52:49 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2723
  • Tommy Points: 307
Bagley can't shoot, isn't much of a passer, offers very little in terms of rim protection. But other than that, he's great..... :D

Really not sure what people think we'd be getting in him and his $11M salary. TL is a much better player and fit.
He's a developing shooter (34% on 2 attempts per game), but other than that I tend to agree - his lack of passing really hurts. He just hasn't really improved besides his shooting.
He made 30 of 96 as a rookie, and 37 of 108 in his 3rd year. That tiny % improvement is likely not something we can point to as real improvement when we're talking about so few attempts. To me, his FT shooting sinking into the 50s is a little more telling. 77 of 134 is just bad.
It is a tiny improvement, but 30 makes in 62 games compared with 37 makes in 43 games is significant - he went from making 0.5 threes a game to 0.9 and doing so at a better percentage.

His free throw shooting confuses me. 69% on a steady amount of attempts as a rookie, 81% in 13 games as a second year player and back into the 50s this year. He's just a strange player.

Imagine taking him over Luka
I suspect Luka told them he would never play there. Not that that should have deterred them from taking him.