The cost of max cap room

[Jvalin]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

Let Timelord walk as well. If we can sign Beal or Kawhi (even better), imo it would be worth it.

Why would we let TL walk unless we had to?

That's what I'm saying. We'd have to let him walk. Here are the actual numbers.

Assuming that:

- The C's decline their 2022/23 team options for Grant and Edwards.
- We let Smart, JRich, Timelord, Grant and Edwards walk.
- We stash our 2022 pick or we trade it.

Payroll in 2022/23
1. Tatum $30,351,780
2. Brown $26,669,643
3. Romeo $5,634,257    
4. Nesmith $3,804,360
5. Pritchard $2,239,200    
6. rookie minimum $953,012
7. rookie minimum $953,012
8. rookie minimum $953,012
9. rookie minimum $953,012
10. rookie minimum $953,012
11. rookie minimum $953,012
12. rookie minimum $953,012

dead salary
Horford $4,833,333 (waived and stretched for 3 seasons)
Jackson $92,857

total: $80,296,514

The cap is projected at $115,787,000, hence we'd have $35,490,486 in cap space.

Beal's max will start at $40,525,450 (=35% of the cap). In the above scenario, we'd be $5,034,964 short of Beal's max. If we dump Horford for cap relief instead of cutting him, we'd be $201,631 short of Beal's max. Alternatively, if we trade Romeo for cap relief + future pick(s), we'd be $353,719 short of Beal's max. Long story short, we cannot keep Timelord.

[ETNCeltics]

Wow. Seems like we've been carrying that charge for Jackson for about 10 years now.

[Celtics2021]

Wow. Seems like we've been carrying that charge for Jackson for about 10 years now.

He was in Brown’s draft class, so we haven’t.  But we stretched him over 7 years so we’ve got some time left with it still.

[JSD]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

A lit of people keep pointing this out. But on the other hand....you get Bradley Beal. The thing about it is you can go into next offseason with options, if Beal doesn't want to some here then you can just not stretch Horford and then resign smart and/or Richardson. You dont have to open up te room untill you know.

In other words the only clear downside to keeping the option open is not resigning Fournier. So is THAT worth it. Probably.

Best case, we sign Beal.

Is Beal worth Fournier, Smart, Richardson and Horford?  And of course, one more year of Tatum’s and Brown’s career put on hold?

 

I mean if we could trade Horford, Smart and Richardaon right now for Beal I think we obviously would. I dont reall count Fournier on that list because JRich is Fourniers replacement this year. I dont think having both guys is realistic money wise.

The biggest loss here is burning the year of the Jay's prime. Which to your point is..not ideal. Not sure what our real option to a third star is.

There’s absolutely no reason we can’t have Fournier as well as Richardson. It’s just the owner of one of the richest teams in the NBA being cheap again.

Does anyone know what type of financial hit the Celtics took these past 2 years? I wonder if the LT reluctance has anything to do with lost money.

[JSD]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

Let Timelord walk as well. If we can sign Beal or Kawhi (even better), imo it would be worth it.

Why would we let TL walk unless we had to?

That's what I'm saying. We'd have to let him walk. Here are the actual numbers.

Assuming that:

- The C's decline their 2022/23 team options for Grant and Edwards.
- We let Smart, JRich, Timelord, Grant and Edwards walk.
- We stash our 2022 pick or we trade it.

Payroll in 2022/23
1. Tatum $30,351,780
2. Brown $26,669,643
3. Romeo $5,634,257    
4. Nesmith $3,804,360
5. Pritchard $2,239,200    
6. rookie minimum $953,012
7. rookie minimum $953,012
8. rookie minimum $953,012
9. rookie minimum $953,012
10. rookie minimum $953,012
11. rookie minimum $953,012
12. rookie minimum $953,012

dead salary
Horford $4,833,333 (waived and stretched for 3 seasons)
Jackson $92,857

total: $80,296,514

The cap is projected at $115,787,000, hence we'd have $35,490,486 in cap space.

Beal's max will start at $40,525,450 (=35% of the cap). In the above scenario, we'd be $5,034,964 short of Beal's max. If we dump Horford for cap relief instead of cutting him, we'd be $1,154,643 short of Beal's max. Alternatively, if we trade Romeo for cap relief + future pick(s), we'd be $353,719 short of Beal's max. Long story short, we cannot keep Timelord. We may even have to dump one of Pritchard/Nesmith for future pick(s) + cap relief.

Why stash the pick? Attach it to Hordford, send him back to OKC, and eliminate the dead money.


TP for a good post.

[RodyTur10]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

[gouki88]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

A lit of people keep pointing this out. But on the other hand....you get Bradley Beal. The thing about it is you can go into next offseason with options, if Beal doesn't want to some here then you can just not stretch Horford and then resign smart and/or Richardson. You dont have to open up te room untill you know.

In other words the only clear downside to keeping the option open is not resigning Fournier. So is THAT worth it. Probably.

Best case, we sign Beal.

Is Beal worth Fournier, Smart, Richardson and Horford?  And of course, one more year of Tatum’s and Brown’s career put on hold?

If you look at that in terms of a trade package, yes. No first round picks involved, and the only players we lose out on are flawed guys and an antique big man.

It does, however, likely involve letting Timelord and Dunn walk as well (if my understanding is correct). That pushes it over the edge in my view

[pearljammer10]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

A lit of people keep pointing this out. But on the other hand....you get Bradley Beal. The thing about it is you can go into next offseason with options, if Beal doesn't want to some here then you can just not stretch Horford and then resign smart and/or Richardson. You dont have to open up te room untill you know.

In other words the only clear downside to keeping the option open is not resigning Fournier. So is THAT worth it. Probably.

Best case, we sign Beal.

Is Beal worth Fournier, Smart, Richardson and Horford?  And of course, one more year of Tatum’s and Brown’s career put on hold?

Yes he is. Beal is an All NBA talent. Pairing that with Tatum and Brown creates a trio that is easy to build around and still growing in the case of Brown and Tatum.

All NBA talents don’t come around often and if you have the opportunity to get one you have to do it.

I don’t think we will have to worry about Fournier as he’s demanding a 4 year 80+ million deal. That’s absurd for him.

[PhoSita]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

I have my doubts.

BUT .... if Tatum has communicated to the team, either directly or obliquely, that he wants the team to be in a position to sign his friend Bradley Beal ...

Well, the Celts don't really have a choice. 

[gouki88]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

I have my doubts.

BUT .... if Tatum has communicated to the team, either directly or obliquely, that he wants the team to be in a position to sign his friend Bradley Beal ...

Well, the Celts don't really have a choice.

That's the thing, isn't it? We cannot risk Tatum becoming a flight risk, even if it is years away.

[footey]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

I have my doubts.

BUT .... if Tatum has communicated to the team, either directly or obliquely, that he wants the team to be in a position to sign his friend Bradley Beal ...

Well, the Celts don't really have a choice.

Even if management thinks it's a bad idea, no choice? Just because Tatum wants to team up with him? 

[footey]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

I have my doubts.

BUT .... if Tatum has communicated to the team, either directly or obliquely, that he wants the team to be in a position to sign his friend Bradley Beal ...

Well, the Celts don't really have a choice.

That's the thing, isn't it? We cannot risk Tatum becoming a flight risk, even if it is years away.

That's a pretty bad way to run a team in my opinion.  And frankly I don't think Tatum does that.  He knows better.

[gouki88]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

I have my doubts.

BUT .... if Tatum has communicated to the team, either directly or obliquely, that he wants the team to be in a position to sign his friend Bradley Beal ...

Well, the Celts don't really have a choice.

That's the thing, isn't it? We cannot risk Tatum becoming a flight risk, even if it is years away.

That's a pretty bad way to run a team in my opinion.  And frankly I don't think Tatum does that.  He knows better.

What other option is there? In the modern NBA teams are pretty subservient to their franchise talent, it's just the way it is.

What do you mean "he knows better"? Than to pressure us into going for Beal, or than to leave?

[footey]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

A lit of people keep pointing this out. But on the other hand....you get Bradley Beal. The thing about it is you can go into next offseason with options, if Beal doesn't want to some here then you can just not stretch Horford and then resign smart and/or Richardson. You dont have to open up te room untill you know.

In other words the only clear downside to keeping the option open is not resigning Fournier. So is THAT worth it. Probably.

You might get Bradley Beal.

Yes, but my POINT is if you dont get Beal you dont have to do all those things Roy mentions. You dont have to let Smart, Richardson, ect walk unless it becomes clear Beal is signing.

If that is all it takes to get Bradley Beal, then you should probably do it.  I think the decision not to commit a 20 MM/4 year contract to Fournier only goes partly toward getting positioned to have cap space for Beal.  It also just is not a good 4 year contract.  If he were a better two way player, then sure. But he is below average defensively, and this team is rebuilding a defensive oriented club.  Plus I am optimistic that most of Fournier's value is replaceable with guys like Nesmith and Richardson.  We would be marginally better with Fournier this season I guess, but long term I have my doubts.

[Jvalin]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

Here are some big names hitting free agency in 2022:

• Durant (player option)
• Steph (unrestricted. I don't think he'll leave the Warriors though.)
• Kawhi (assuming he opts in this season)
• Harden (player option)
• Kyrie (player option, that would be hilarious)
• Butler (player option)
• Randle (unrestricted)
• LaVine (unrestricted)

It's a loaded free-agent class! Possibly the best one ever? Imo, it would definitely be worth it for KD, Steph and Kawhi (regardless of his ACL tear). I'm less certain about Harden and Beal, but at the end of the day I'd still do it. I would not gut our team for Kyrie, Butler, Randle or LaVine (for various different reasons). Fwiw, LaVine and Randle would come cheaper than the other players on the list. Their max would start at $34,736,100 (=30% of the cap).