Author Topic: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?  (Read 15473 times)

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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #75 on: July 29, 2021, 11:54:39 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Just look at the Lakers depth chart before LeBron turned up.

Lonzo Ball
Thomas Bryant
Caldwell-Pope
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma
Brook Lopez
Julius Randle
Ivica Zubac
Alex Caruso


You could argue that this team is actually better then the one they have around LeBron right now lol

Serious question, who wins?

2021 Lakers:

Gasol (might retire)
Davis
James
Horton-Tucker (might lose him)
Westbrook

Drummond
Caruso
McLemore
Matthews

*2017 Lakers (+ LeBron):

Lopez
James
Ingram
KCP
Ball

Julius Randle
Kyle Kuzma
Ivica Zubac
Josh Hart
Thomas Bryant
Alex Caruso

* based on 2021 performance level

My money is on the 2017 team, which goes to show how damaging the pressure of LeBron's influence has been to their talent.

Not sure if 2017 would be possible in 2021 salary cap wise but yeah the 2017 probably would beat the 2021 team

Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #76 on: July 29, 2021, 11:56:20 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I like Kuzma but this is a big win for the Lakers.
How?
Westbrook is an excellent passer, ball handler, and rebounder.  He will take immense pressure off of James and actually allow him to rest a lot more (on the floor).  That will give the Lakers a huge advantage at the end of games when James can go full bore and actually have stuff left in the tank.  Westbrook will also put relentless pressure on opposing PG's and he gets to the line a lot.  I just don't think it is a bad thing for a team to add a guy that plays most every game and is coming off a season averaging 22.2, 11.5 and 11.7.  And it isn't like Russ is replacing an elite shooter.  Schroder is a better shooter, but isn't a lot better or actually good, and Russ is literally better at everything else (and they still can sign Schroder or sign and trade him).  Harrell and KCP are fairly easy to replace role players, and while I like Kuzma, he just isn't a good fit with James and Davis so I think they can replace him fairly easily as well.   

Lakers clearly need to add some depth, but I don't think they will have that much difficulty finding some solid role players and they always could still bring back guys like Morris, Matthews, Drummond and Dudley (I expect Caruso and Horton-Tucker to be back).

What is the most they can offer Drummond for a contract? I think it is very hard to win in the NBA without shooting from your stars. Obviously Giannis was not a great shooter, but just about every other player on the team was a good player including middleton as a star. I am surprised you like this deal Mo.
Drummond would have to be the tax payer exception, but I'm honestly not sure he is going to get more than that.  KCP is the only good shooter they gave up in the trade.  Their next 3 best shooters they can all bring back rather easily (Gasol, Caruso, and McKinnie).  McLemore also able to come back rather easily and he was one of their better shooters.  The simple reality is the Lakers didn't have much shooting last year and Westbrook doesn't change that at all, but he adds so many dimensions to what they can do that Schroder (or anyone else) can't do.

Now maybe bringing back Schroder and doing the Hield trade might have worked out better, but I suspect the Lakers know they have a really good shot at getting some one to provide some shooting at the 2 guard spot.  Like maybe Reggie Bullock.

This seems be a really optimistic read on things. I certainly believe some team would give Drummond more than tax payer exception. He also made it pretty clear that his next contract is important to him and is not in ring chasing part of his career yet. Marc Gasol should retire. He also was upset with his role at points last year so if he did decide to play one final yeah might go back to memphis or something like that. Some of the other guys you mentioned like Dudley and Wes Matthews are not rotation players and really irrelevant.

Now maybe klutch can work some magic and can get some buyouts or guys to take a massive pay cut (like davis west a few years back). I’m just not sure who those players are.
Of course it's optimistic, it's a LeBron team and it's not Boston
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #77 on: July 30, 2021, 12:06:16 AM »

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Is there any chance at all this works out for them?  RW makes 44 million this year, and 47 million next year.   Between Lebron, Davis and RW, how much tax will they be paying for that level of dis-function?

Perhaps they end up like a better version of the Isiah era Knicks?  They just keep trading for big names, losing all your assets and cap space in the process.  Traded for Marbury, Steve Francis, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, etc.  Everyone thought the Knicks were back!

Performance wise, could they end up like '99 Rockets or '13 Lakers?  A lot of excitement going in, ended with a lot of dysfunction and a first round knockout in both.

I guess the Lakers can keep making dumb trades for two reasons: 1) It will always be true that a lot of top players want to play for them, and 2) teams continue (inexplicably) to help the Lakers in trades.
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #78 on: July 30, 2021, 12:30:38 AM »

Online celticsclay

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I like Kuzma but this is a big win for the Lakers.
How?
Westbrook is an excellent passer, ball handler, and rebounder.  He will take immense pressure off of James and actually allow him to rest a lot more (on the floor).  That will give the Lakers a huge advantage at the end of games when James can go full bore and actually have stuff left in the tank.  Westbrook will also put relentless pressure on opposing PG's and he gets to the line a lot.  I just don't think it is a bad thing for a team to add a guy that plays most every game and is coming off a season averaging 22.2, 11.5 and 11.7.  And it isn't like Russ is replacing an elite shooter.  Schroder is a better shooter, but isn't a lot better or actually good, and Russ is literally better at everything else (and they still can sign Schroder or sign and trade him).  Harrell and KCP are fairly easy to replace role players, and while I like Kuzma, he just isn't a good fit with James and Davis so I think they can replace him fairly easily as well.   

Lakers clearly need to add some depth, but I don't think they will have that much difficulty finding some solid role players and they always could still bring back guys like Morris, Matthews, Drummond and Dudley (I expect Caruso and Horton-Tucker to be back).

What is the most they can offer Drummond for a contract? I think it is very hard to win in the NBA without shooting from your stars. Obviously Giannis was not a great shooter, but just about every other player on the team was a good player including middleton as a star. I am surprised you like this deal Mo.
Drummond would have to be the tax payer exception, but I'm honestly not sure he is going to get more than that.  KCP is the only good shooter they gave up in the trade.  Their next 3 best shooters they can all bring back rather easily (Gasol, Caruso, and McKinnie).  McLemore also able to come back rather easily and he was one of their better shooters.  The simple reality is the Lakers didn't have much shooting last year and Westbrook doesn't change that at all, but he adds so many dimensions to what they can do that Schroder (or anyone else) can't do.

Now maybe bringing back Schroder and doing the Hield trade might have worked out better, but I suspect the Lakers know they have a really good shot at getting some one to provide some shooting at the 2 guard spot.  Like maybe Reggie Bullock.

This seems be a really optimistic read on things. I certainly believe some team would give Drummond more than tax payer exception. He also made it pretty clear that his next contract is important to him and is not in ring chasing part of his career yet. Marc Gasol should retire. He also was upset with his role at points last year so if he did decide to play one final yeah might go back to memphis or something like that. Some of the other guys you mentioned like Dudley and Wes Matthews are not rotation players and really irrelevant.

Now maybe klutch can work some magic and can get some buyouts or guys to take a massive pay cut (like davis west a few years back). I’m just not sure who those players are.
Of course it's optimistic, it's a LeBron team and it's not Boston

Yeah I mean we all get that aspect of it.

Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #79 on: July 30, 2021, 12:31:05 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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If Westbrook is the answer in 2021, what’s the question? 🤣 is it “how to constrain the Lakers such that LeBron is a one-and-done Laker—the Bubbleboy Laker, if you will?” 👍

Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2021, 01:12:35 AM »

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How is it the Lakers are able to continuously pursue valuable players to add to their championship roster while it seems the Celtics have to gut their team to acquire a rotation player who might actually produce. I'm sure I don't understand the details and I'm sure I know even less about the salary rules. Just seems our current important rivals (Lakers, Nets, Sixers, Bucks) chase star players with impunity while we trade one average player for another trying to improve.
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2021, 02:20:27 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Gotta move AD over to center permanently for this Westbrook experiment to have any chance of being successful.

G - Westbrook
G - shooter
F - shooter
F - LeBron
C - AD

Similar to the Rockets micro-ball lineups only with AD at center instead of PJ Tucker offering LAL more defensive integrity and rebounding integrity.

With this in mind, this may be more workable a combination than I had initially thought.
They still have Marc Gasol on the team, a center that can stretch the floor and play credible defense. No need to move AD to the 4 spot when the Lakers have a center that can play on the perimeter on offense letting AD to have the space to operate. That Gasol can hit at over 40%, makes cheating off him to cover others a problem for the Lakers' opponents.

Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2021, 03:48:04 AM »

Offline LilRip

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I’m not down on this trade, if I was LA.

Lebron is obviously getting old. Westbrook is a high usage player, who will help save Lebron’s legs. Obviously Lakers needs a bunch of shooters now but I’m sure they’ll find some ring chasers or minimum guys who can provide just enough. They’re still a tough team, IMO
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers ?
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2021, 07:21:40 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Lakers can always send out poop and get players back.

LOL…kinda nailed it didn’t ya ! ;)

Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2021, 07:58:50 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Smart & TT to Kings for Hield works in trade machine but doubt I would do it unless we can get a vet FA PG
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2021, 08:32:48 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I guess the Lakers can keep making dumb trades for two reasons: 1) It will always be true that a lot of top players want to play for them, and 2) teams continue (inexplicably) to help the Lakers in trades.

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say relative to this trade.  Was it a dumb trade for the Lakers or did Washington "help" the Lakers?

Anyway, $120M in salary for LeBron, Westbrook, and Davis.  Wow.  I think they will be able to resign enough of their current players and pick up a few additional players to be still a good team.  Westbrook will always be a stat chaser but LeBron will be able to reign him in more than say Harden could.  This should be a good situation for Westbrook.  The players the Lakers gave up are not going to make that much difference.

Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2021, 08:42:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I like Kuzma but this is a big win for the Lakers.
How?
Westbrook is an excellent passer, ball handler, and rebounder.  He will take immense pressure off of James and actually allow him to rest a lot more (on the floor).  That will give the Lakers a huge advantage at the end of games when James can go full bore and actually have stuff left in the tank.  Westbrook will also put relentless pressure on opposing PG's and he gets to the line a lot.  I just don't think it is a bad thing for a team to add a guy that plays most every game and is coming off a season averaging 22.2, 11.5 and 11.7.  And it isn't like Russ is replacing an elite shooter.  Schroder is a better shooter, but isn't a lot better or actually good, and Russ is literally better at everything else (and they still can sign Schroder or sign and trade him).  Harrell and KCP are fairly easy to replace role players, and while I like Kuzma, he just isn't a good fit with James and Davis so I think they can replace him fairly easily as well.   

Lakers clearly need to add some depth, but I don't think they will have that much difficulty finding some solid role players and they always could still bring back guys like Morris, Matthews, Drummond and Dudley (I expect Caruso and Horton-Tucker to be back).

What is the most they can offer Drummond for a contract? I think it is very hard to win in the NBA without shooting from your stars. Obviously Giannis was not a great shooter, but just about every other player on the team was a good player including middleton as a star. I am surprised you like this deal Mo.
Drummond would have to be the tax payer exception, but I'm honestly not sure he is going to get more than that.  KCP is the only good shooter they gave up in the trade.  Their next 3 best shooters they can all bring back rather easily (Gasol, Caruso, and McKinnie).  McLemore also able to come back rather easily and he was one of their better shooters.  The simple reality is the Lakers didn't have much shooting last year and Westbrook doesn't change that at all, but he adds so many dimensions to what they can do that Schroder (or anyone else) can't do.

Now maybe bringing back Schroder and doing the Hield trade might have worked out better, but I suspect the Lakers know they have a really good shot at getting some one to provide some shooting at the 2 guard spot.  Like maybe Reggie Bullock.

This seems be a really optimistic read on things. I certainly believe some team would give Drummond more than tax payer exception. He also made it pretty clear that his next contract is important to him and is not in ring chasing part of his career yet. Marc Gasol should retire. He also was upset with his role at points last year so if he did decide to play one final yeah might go back to memphis or something like that. Some of the other guys you mentioned like Dudley and Wes Matthews are not rotation players and really irrelevant.

Now maybe klutch can work some magic and can get some buyouts or guys to take a massive pay cut (like davis west a few years back). I’m just not sure who those players are.
Maybe some team will pay Drummond, maybe not.  I think his time at the end in Detroit, and then Cleveland and LA hasn't exactly made him a hot commodity.  He is an excellent rebounder, but does like nothing else.  Those guys just aren't very valuable.

Gasol certainly could retire, but he is under contract with the Lakers, so he isn't going anywhere else in the NBA without the Lakers blessing.  I think his issues were losing time to Drummond and frankly he was probably right.  Gasol provides a needed element for the Lakers with his shooting.  They'd love to have him back for 15-20 mpg to provide some spacing, passing, shooting, etc. 

Matthews played 20 mpg or so for the Lakers last year and started 10 games for them.  He played like 18 mpg in the playoffs.  He is absolutely a rotation player still (not a starter, but a solid 7th/8th man type player).  I agree on Dudley, if he has anything at all left, it is basically nil. 

But this is LA and the Lakers.  They will find players because of that fact alone, but also because they are clearly a title contender and players often want to do the ring chasing thing (and again it is LA). 

I have no idea if Westbrook will work with James/Davis, but I think he will work better than Schroder did as he is a significantly better player than Schroder and does everything Schroder does better than him, except shoot, but Schroder isn't a good shooter so I'm not sure that is anything more than a negligible loss (Schroder is better shooter than Westbrook, just not good).  They obviously have to fill in their depth, but they have a top 3 player in James, a top 10 player in Davis, and a top 20 (or so) player in Westbrook.  That is a very good starting point for a title contender.  They just need to stay healthy and get some bodies in there.  And given their contender status and the fact that they are the Lakers in LA, I just don't think it will be hard for them to find the bodies.
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2021, 08:45:36 AM »

Offline greg683x

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How is it the Lakers are able to continuously pursue valuable players to add to their championship roster while it seems the Celtics have to gut their team to acquire a rotation player who might actually produce. I'm sure I don't understand the details and I'm sure I know even less about the salary rules. Just seems our current important rivals (Lakers, Nets, Sixers, Bucks) chase star players with impunity while we trade one average player for another trying to improve.

Yeah I’m in the same boat as well.  It’s pretty irritating that the Lakers can pretty much choose between Westbrook or Hield after they have one disappointing season.  when we’ve been pining for that last difference maker, someone like Hield, for the last few years now
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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2021, 09:24:55 AM »

Online Roy H.

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How is it the Lakers are able to continuously pursue valuable players to add to their championship roster while it seems the Celtics have to gut their team to acquire a rotation player who might actually produce. I'm sure I don't understand the details and I'm sure I know even less about the salary rules. Just seems our current important rivals (Lakers, Nets, Sixers, Bucks) chase star players with impunity while we trade one average player for another trying to improve.

Yeah I’m in the same boat as well.  It’s pretty irritating that the Lakers can pretty much choose between Westbrook or Hield after they have one disappointing season.  when we’ve been pining for that last difference maker, someone like Hield, for the last few years now

Part of it is having matching salaries. We don’t have a lot of mid range contracts to trade.  However, I’m sure that we could have Hield tomorrow. It would just cost us Smart and Thompson.


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Re: Buddy Hield to lakers? Update: Westbrook to Lakers?
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2021, 12:25:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How is it the Lakers are able to continuously pursue valuable players to add to their championship roster while it seems the Celtics have to gut their team to acquire a rotation player who might actually produce. I'm sure I don't understand the details and I'm sure I know even less about the salary rules. Just seems our current important rivals (Lakers, Nets, Sixers, Bucks) chase star players with impunity while we trade one average player for another trying to improve.

Yeah I’m in the same boat as well.  It’s pretty irritating that the Lakers can pretty much choose between Westbrook or Hield after they have one disappointing season.  when we’ve been pining for that last difference maker, someone like Hield, for the last few years now

Part of it is having matching salaries. We don’t have a lot of mid range contracts to trade.  However, I’m sure that we could have Hield tomorrow. It would just cost us Smart and Thompson.
Probably a 1st also.  I mean the proposed LA trade was Kuzma, Harrell, and 22.  Smart is better than Kuzma, but Harrell is better than Thompson so I think it would take a protected future 1st (or maybe someone like Grant Williams). 

That is the what if on the Lakers deal for me, were they better off keeping KCP, getting Hield, and then re-signing Schroder?  So the top 6 of Schroder, Hield, KCP, James, Davis, and Gasol.  Is that better than Westbrook, James, Davis, Gasol, and a giant ?.  The answer probably depends on how they fill out the roster and what they do with Schroder (can they sign and trade him and get something back, do they bring him back, or do they let him walk).  I get why they'd choose Westbrook though as he provides them way more options and his ball handling and playmaking is something they lack and probably need to take pressure off of Lebron.
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