Author Topic: Cameron Payne?  (Read 1073 times)

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Cameron Payne?
« on: July 22, 2021, 05:44:11 AM »

Online Jvalin

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Quote from: Bobby Marks @ ESPN
Payne is an unrestricted free agent this season, and although he only played eight games in 2019-20, he has early Bird rights because he signed a two-year contract. The early Bird provision allows Phoenix to sign Payne to the average player salary (up to approximately $10.7 million) without having to use part or all of the $9.5 million midlevel exception. The contract has to be for a minimum of two years, and the second season cannot contain an option year.

According to ProFitX, the starting salary for Payne projects to be at $10 million, comparable to both the average player salary and the full midlevel exception.

If Payne does sign a three-year, $27 million contract, comparable to deal signed by Memphis Grizzlies guard Tyus Jones, Phoenix would likely end up paying the luxury tax for the first time since 2009-10.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31850215/offseason-moves-phoenix-suns-do-chris-paul

How about Cam Payne? We have 3 options to acquire him:

1. Use the remaining TPE + pick(s). It would have to be a sign and trade.

2. Match his future salary [+ possibly include pick(s)]. Again, it would have to be a sign and trade.

3. Offer him the non-taxpayer MLE.

No matter which option we choose, the C's would become hard capped at the apron.

Anybody intrigued by Payne's performances this season? Would you rather have Smart or Payne as our future starting PG? Fwiw, he's about to become 27 next month. To a large extent, he fits the time window of the Jays.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 07:44:49 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2021, 07:30:42 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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I don't want him as a future anything. I like him in a back-up PG role, but that's about it. Unless Phoenix doesn't offer him a contract, I don't see a S&T possible with him... but I think Phoenix will at the very least offer him what the early Bird Rights allow, I think the market will overpay him though and I don't want to be in that bidding war. Then again, it's not like we can offer much as it is, I just don't think it'll be enough.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:43:56 AM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2021, 07:46:34 AM »

Offline Birdman

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I donít see him as starter material
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2021, 10:56:47 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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I for one am sick of undersized guards.  So "NO" from me.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2021, 11:00:50 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If a team thought Payne was a future starting PG, he'd be offered a lot more than 10 million a year. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2021, 11:04:24 AM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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He probably will find better than a 1Y11M contract. Don't want to lock his contract and impact our chances to grab a big FA. So no for me.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2021, 01:18:52 PM »

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I'm in. I like his talent. I was skeptical of his performances / shooting improvement / offensive decision making but I really like what I see from him. Worth the risk.

We need a guard who can get dribble penetration. Tatum & Jaylen do not provide enough playmaking to play without a guard who is a dribble drive threat. Smart is not capable of being that player. Pritchard is unlikely to be that player either (more of a shooter than a driver).

Payne is worth the risk. He offers that dribble drive threat. He can shoot enough to keep defenses honest off the ball. He is scrappy on defense. A lot better than Kemba, Isaiah or Kyrie were defensively. More like Tony Parker level defender. Not that impressive but reasonably solid. Not a liability. Like Kyrie when he tries but not a diva so Payne tries often.

Anything in the $10mil to $13mil range I am happy to pay. Maybe even up to $15mil if we can afford it in a TPE.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2021, 06:38:43 PM »

Online gouki88

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I see him as a bench guard. High level bench guard, but I don't really want him as the starting point here.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 06:44:40 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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I'm in. I like his talent. I was skeptical of his performances / shooting improvement / offensive decision making but I really like what I see from him. Worth the risk.

We need a guard who can get dribble penetration. Tatum & Jaylen do not provide enough playmaking to play without a guard who is a dribble drive threat. Smart is not capable of being that player. Pritchard is unlikely to be that player either (more of a shooter than a driver).

Payne is worth the risk. He offers that dribble drive threat. He can shoot enough to keep defenses honest off the ball. He is scrappy on defense. A lot better than Kemba, Isaiah or Kyrie were defensively. More like Tony Parker level defender. Not that impressive but reasonably solid. Not a liability. Like Kyrie when he tries but not a diva so Payne tries often.

Anything in the $10mil to $13mil range I am happy to pay. Maybe even up to $15mil if we can afford it in a TPE.

Only way to acquire him is to do a sign and trade and Phoenix the most they can pay him is $10.7 million with Early Bird Rights as mentioned in the OP. Or using the full MLE, but that's a pay cut.

Anything above that we can't be players on.

But going to the hypotheticals of 13 and 15 million range, we can't use it with our TPE. Our biggest one is Hayward's which has $11M remaining... and if not mistaken the salary has to fit within the exception total. So the only way would be to use players, which would be my preferred method if we can get rid of Thompson + misc... I'd be game.

But again, the point is moot since Phoenix can't offer those type of contracts for him to be able to trade him.

So unless you have cap space to outbid Phoenix, I have trouble seeing how Phoenix doesn't offer him those $10.7M, and if that's the case, one would need a package to entice Phoenix since I very much doubt Payne wants to leave. But if Payne forces the issue, then something can be done, and $10.7M is good value.

Still... don't see him or want him as our starting PG.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2021, 08:35:41 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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After the way his series ended, Iím not even sure Payne is more than a minimum player, much less a 15 million player. They needed him, and he couldnít/didnít perform. Not sure Iíd like to be counting on him in the playoffs.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2021, 09:28:54 PM »

Online gouki88

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After the way his series ended, Iím not even sure Payne is more than a minimum player, much less a 15 million player. They needed him, and he couldnít/didnít perform. Not sure Iíd like to be counting on him in the playoffs.
All he can do is finish left-handed!

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2021, 10:20:04 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I don't even know that he's an NBA player.  The Bulls decided he wasn't after his second practice...

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2021, 10:31:12 PM »

Online gouki88

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I don't even know that he's an NBA player.  The Bulls decided he wasn't after his second practice...
Given what Payne has done over the last 2 years that's more of an embarrassing reflection upon the Bulls scouting team than an indictment of Payne. He's a legit NBA player - just a backup guard, albeit a good one

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2021, 01:34:24 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I don't even know that he's an NBA player.  The Bulls decided he wasn't after his second practice...
Given what Payne has done over the last 2 years that's more of an embarrassing reflection upon the Bulls scouting team than an indictment of Payne. He's a legit NBA player - just a backup guard, albeit a good one

Could be.  JJ Redick said he also didn't think Payne was an NBA player early in his career.  He can definitely shoot, but he's small, ripe to be bullied on defense, and maybe benefited from PHO.

He may become a solid rotation player, but I wouldn't invest much faith, definitely not as a starting PG.

Re: Cameron Payne?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2021, 02:36:55 AM »

Online Jvalin

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After the way his series ended, Iím not even sure Payne is more than a minimum player, much less a 15 million player. They needed him, and he couldnít/didnít perform. Not sure Iíd like to be counting on him in the playoffs.
How did his series end? He scored 10 points in 10 minutes in game 6 (on 4-6 from the field and 2-2 from 3pt range). Fwiw, him and Crowder were the only Suns players with a positive +/- that day (+9 for Payne, +4 for Crowder). Not his fault that he couldn't get more playing time behind CP3 and Book.

I'm not gonna act as if I've watched him a whole lot besides the Finals, but his advanced stats throughout this season suggest he's definitely a starting-caliber PG in this league. I liked what I saw in the Finals as well. Very explosive guard. Can create his own shot. Can create shots for his teammates. Reliable shooter. Can play on or off the ball. Pesky defender. What's not to like (assuming the price is ~10 million a year)? He has a funny-looking shooting stroke, but I couldn't care less tbh. His shots are going in, that's all I care about. The only legit counterargument I've read thus far is what Riki said:

He probably will find better than a 1Y11M contract. Don't want to lock his contract and impact our chances to grab a big FA. So no for me.
Fair enough. If Brad plans to go after Beal in the 2022 free agency, that's another story.


I for one am sick of undersized guards.  So "NO" from me.
He's not exactly undersized though, due to his impressive wingspan relative to his height. Here are his combine measurements:

6' 0.75'' w/o shoes
6' 7.25'' wingspan

He may be short, but he ain't necessarily undersized.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 04:10:42 AM by Jvalin »