Author Topic: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA  (Read 769 times)

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When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« on: July 21, 2021, 12:10:49 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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As a guest on Dan Le Batard's show, Ariel Helwani criticized the UFC's uniform deal with Venum and their fight kit sponsorship deal with Crypto.com. He pointed out why those business moves are good for the UFC but unfair to the fighters.

"A $175,000, 000, 10-year deal. The biggest in UFC history. Guess what percentage of that money is going to the fighters?"

Ariel Helwani asked the show's hosts and producers to guess how much they think the fighters are earning from the UFC's deal with Crypto. The lowest guess was 7%, while the highest was 30%. To their surprise, Helwani revealed:

"The actual retail price is zero percent. Zero percent for the fighters. Just like the zero percent that they get from the TV deal. Just like the zero percent that they get from all of those other sponsors that are all over the cage."

This Ďkití deal comes after UFC previous signed a long term contract with Reebok in 2014, causing the fighters to take a huge financial hit as they were disallowed from wearing their own sponsored apparel in fights.

These are MMA fighters whoís careers and lives could be changed/over every time they step into the cage.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:14:27 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2021, 12:45:50 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The fight industry(boxing and MMA)has been set up so that the fighters get screwed out of almost all the money being generated for more than 100 years. Nothing new about this revelation. Very, very few fighters get to keep most of the money, it's the promoters that make it all, or cheat and swindle the fighters out of whatever they did have coming their way. It's sad these guys sacrifice their health and yet, the guy doing the promoting gets most of the cash.

Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2021, 01:00:00 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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The fight industry(boxing and MMA)has been set up so that the fighters get screwed out of almost all the money being generated for more than 100 years. Nothing new about this revelation. Very, very few fighters get to keep most of the money, it's the promoters that make it all, or cheat and swindle the fighters out of whatever they did have coming their way. It's sad these guys sacrifice their health and yet, the guy doing the promoting gets most of the cash.

Boxing has obviously been taking advantage of poor black men for a century, but so did most other sports including soccer. The UFC is something different, itís more violent (shorter careers) and completely centrally controlled bordering on a dictatorship. Apparently the UFC is the only ESPN deal where the sporting body actually has production rights, meaning they control who is involved in their shows and what is said about the organisation.

Boxers for decades negotiated their own deals through promoters where they obviously get a large percentage of the broadcast money and percentage of tickets, merch ect. UFC fighters get nothing, they are on short term set contracts thatís it, take it or leave it. For a modern American sporting body, they are pushing the boundaries of slavery.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:08:25 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2021, 01:18:58 PM »

Online Roy H.

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How does the monetary structure work?  I know new fighters get paid very little, but what about established guys?  What power do they have to name their price?

They clearly need a union.


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Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2021, 01:31:32 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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How does the monetary structure work?  I know new fighters get paid very little, but what about established guys?  What power do they have to name their price?

They clearly need a union.

They are on a salary contract and receive bonuses for best fight ect.

In 2020, Conor McGregor was on 3,000,000 salary which is pathetic considering heís a top guy. UFC doesnít provide anything for the fighters; trainers, physiotherapists, flights, accommodation. The average UFC fighter made $147,965 in 2020 and like I stated earlier they canít sign their own clothing deal because their ufc contract forbids it.

Honestly for a company that has a value of $9 to $10 billion, a lot of their fighters would fighting for peanuts if you take out expenses.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:42:07 PM by Ed Monix »
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Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2021, 02:18:30 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How does the monetary structure work?  I know new fighters get paid very little, but what about established guys?  What power do they have to name their price?

They clearly need a union.
The Venum deal is for the uniform that they wear to and in the ring.  The UFC wanted some consistency and wanted to keep some of the hangers on out.  The pay for the uniform is based solely on your experience except for title fights.  It is probably pretty light overall, but it isn't like any other sport allows its competitors to have advertising and inconsistency on their uniform (except basically nascar).

https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/31176357/ufc-new-venum-uniform-deal-gives-fighters-slight-pay-bump

Helwani has an axe to grind since the UFC got him fired from Fox and basically got him fired from ESPN.  He hates Dana White. 

As for fighter pay, no one really knows how much the fighters make because they intentionally do a lot of the payment and negotiating behind the scenes.  The reported pay is just the base pay.  The fighters often have signing and other bonuses that are never reported (to the public) and the top tier fighters all get varying cuts of PPV.  For example, McGregor just fought Poirier.  McGregor's reported pay was 5 million and Poirier's was 1.5 million, however based on reasonable calculations of the PPV numbers and the likely PPV component of the contracts, McGregor's actual pay was probably more like 23 million and Poirier more like 5.1 million.  Because those numbers aren't released to the public there is a lot of conjecture, but here is an article talking about it. https://mmasalaries.com/ufc-264-salaries-and-payouts/.  There are also often bonuses that aren't public also.  Plenty of fighters describe being handled envelopes of cash in the locker-room, signing bonuses when the sign fight agreements, etc. 
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Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2021, 04:18:07 PM »

Offline gift

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How does the monetary structure work?  I know new fighters get paid very little, but what about established guys?  What power do they have to name their price?

They clearly need a union.
The Venum deal is for the uniform that they wear to and in the ring.  The UFC wanted some consistency and wanted to keep some of the hangers on out.  The pay for the uniform is based solely on your experience except for title fights.  It is probably pretty light overall, but it isn't like any other sport allows its competitors to have advertising and inconsistency on their uniform (except basically nascar).

https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/31176357/ufc-new-venum-uniform-deal-gives-fighters-slight-pay-bump

Helwani has an axe to grind since the UFC got him fired from Fox and basically got him fired from ESPN.  He hates Dana White. 

As for fighter pay, no one really knows how much the fighters make because they intentionally do a lot of the payment and negotiating behind the scenes.  The reported pay is just the base pay.  The fighters often have signing and other bonuses that are never reported (to the public) and the top tier fighters all get varying cuts of PPV.  For example, McGregor just fought Poirier.  McGregor's reported pay was 5 million and Poirier's was 1.5 million, however based on reasonable calculations of the PPV numbers and the likely PPV component of the contracts, McGregor's actual pay was probably more like 23 million and Poirier more like 5.1 million.  Because those numbers aren't released to the public there is a lot of conjecture, but here is an article talking about it. https://mmasalaries.com/ufc-264-salaries-and-payouts/.  There are also often bonuses that aren't public also.  Plenty of fighters describe being handled envelopes of cash in the locker-room, signing bonuses when the sign fight agreements, etc.

No one knows exactly how much fighters make, but we can be pretty sure it's not enough by looking at the wealth of some of their mid-tier and even (lower) upper tier fighters. We saw a guy like Geoff Neal go back to working at a steakhouse for a while because he made more money there than he did fighting. I think he was a top 15 guy at the time. Other fighters have cited economic reasons for retiring. Top fighters routinely "retire" as a negotiating tactic.

The answer is of course a fighters union but there are so many grifters and not a ton of smart fighters to go about it the right way. The UFC has a ton of debt right now, which is both a motivator to not negotiate, but also a liability if the fighters were willing to collectively sit out a couple of months. It shouldn't be hard since the majority of fighters are inactive for that period of time anyway. But they are starting from zero.

Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2021, 04:23:57 PM »

Offline gift

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How does the monetary structure work?  I know new fighters get paid very little, but what about established guys?  What power do they have to name their price?

They clearly need a union.

They negotiate separate contracts and sometimes hold out for more. It's really messy. Sometimes the very best (like handful) of them will get a percentage of PPV revenue. But for most, the UFC holds the money and decides what it will dole out in terms of bonuses etc. Very little leverage for anyone other than the very top fighters. Even the very top fighters routinely have tough negotiations with the UFC that end up with public accusations of the fighters not really wanting to fight etc.

Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2021, 04:31:18 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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UFC fighters get nothing, they are on short term set contracts thatís it, take it or leave it. For a modern American sporting body, they are pushing the boundaries of slavery.

This is pretty idiotic statement.  Take it or leave it - is like most any other job in the world and farthest thing from 'slavery'. 

Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2021, 04:42:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How does the monetary structure work?  I know new fighters get paid very little, but what about established guys?  What power do they have to name their price?

They clearly need a union.
The Venum deal is for the uniform that they wear to and in the ring.  The UFC wanted some consistency and wanted to keep some of the hangers on out.  The pay for the uniform is based solely on your experience except for title fights.  It is probably pretty light overall, but it isn't like any other sport allows its competitors to have advertising and inconsistency on their uniform (except basically nascar).

https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/31176357/ufc-new-venum-uniform-deal-gives-fighters-slight-pay-bump

Helwani has an axe to grind since the UFC got him fired from Fox and basically got him fired from ESPN.  He hates Dana White. 

As for fighter pay, no one really knows how much the fighters make because they intentionally do a lot of the payment and negotiating behind the scenes.  The reported pay is just the base pay.  The fighters often have signing and other bonuses that are never reported (to the public) and the top tier fighters all get varying cuts of PPV.  For example, McGregor just fought Poirier.  McGregor's reported pay was 5 million and Poirier's was 1.5 million, however based on reasonable calculations of the PPV numbers and the likely PPV component of the contracts, McGregor's actual pay was probably more like 23 million and Poirier more like 5.1 million.  Because those numbers aren't released to the public there is a lot of conjecture, but here is an article talking about it. https://mmasalaries.com/ufc-264-salaries-and-payouts/.  There are also often bonuses that aren't public also.  Plenty of fighters describe being handled envelopes of cash in the locker-room, signing bonuses when the sign fight agreements, etc.

No one knows exactly how much fighters make, but we can be pretty sure it's not enough by looking at the wealth of some of their mid-tier and even (lower) upper tier fighters. We saw a guy like Geoff Neal go back to working at a steakhouse for a while because he made more money there than he did fighting. I think he was a top 15 guy at the time. Other fighters have cited economic reasons for retiring. Top fighters routinely "retire" as a negotiating tactic.

The answer is of course a fighters union but there are so many grifters and not a ton of smart fighters to go about it the right way. The UFC has a ton of debt right now, which is both a motivator to not negotiate, but also a liability if the fighters were willing to collectively sit out a couple of months. It shouldn't be hard since the majority of fighters are inactive for that period of time anyway. But they are starting from zero.
Neal couldn't get a fight during covid when travel restrictions made it very difficult for him.  That is when he went to work at a steakhouse, just so he had something to do and could make some money.  He didn't make more money at the steakhouse than he did from fighting, other than the fact is he couldn't get a fight (his fight six months before that his reported pay was 62k and since he has been clearing over 100k a fight).  The pandemic caused a lot of issues for fighters (just as it did everyone else).
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Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2021, 05:06:19 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Do the fighters have to sign exclusive contracts to only fight in the UFC? Or can fighters go from UFC to Bellator MMA in between fights?

Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2021, 06:42:19 PM »

Online gouki88

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Do the fighters have to sign exclusive contracts to only fight in the UFC? Or can fighters go from UFC to Bellator MMA in between fights?
Exclusive contracts. Actually, exclusive doesn't even begin to cover it. Georges St Pierre, one of the greatest fighters of all time, hasn't fought since 2017 and has retired from professional fighting. However, Dana White won't release him from his UFC contract, even though St Pierre has expressed interest in taking part in exhibitions.

The only reason is because White and the UFC love to have a stranglehold over their fighters. No sponsorship freedom like the old days, miniscule % of earnings unless you're a superstar, etc etc. It's terrible. It's why I never give money to the UFC to watch their events

Re: When modern NBA players complain about their CBA
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2021, 09:06:28 PM »

Online Ogaju

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sounds like a problem that is easily solved.