Poll

When all is said and done, where do you think Giannis is going to rank among PFs of all time?

#1
0 (0%)
#2
5 (83.3%)
#3
1 (16.7%)
#4
0 (0%)
#5
0 (0%)
#6
0 (0%)
outside of the top 6
0 (0%)

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Author Topic: Poll: Where do you rank Giannis among PFs all time?  (Read 3351 times)

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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2021, 11:05:29 PM »

Offline action781

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I think Hakeem in his prime was a better two way player than Giannis is right now.  Jordan as well.  Lebron too in '12-'13.

Giannis is a great defender, but I don't understand why he doesn't step up and take the toughest assignments on the floor in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.  I remember Lebron going out of position to defend Derrick Rose in the 4th quarters in the playoffs in Rose's MVP year and absolutely shut Rose down when it mattered.  I didn't see Giannis doing that this postseason.
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2021, 11:13:23 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think Hakeem in his prime was a better two way player than Giannis is right now.  Jordan as well.  Lebron too in '12-'13.

Giannis is a great defender, but I don't understand why he doesn't step up and take the toughest assignments on the floor in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.  I remember Lebron going out of position to defend Derrick Rose in the 4th quarters in the playoffs in Rose's MVP year and absolutely shut Rose down when it mattered.  I didn't see Giannis doing that this postseason.
Giannis isn't quick enough to stay with Booker and Paul off the dribble on the perimeter.  He does take on the tougher assignments more when the better players are bigger and slower, though Giannis is also at his best as a weak side and help defender.  He can make up so much ground so quickly that the Bucks are often best served when he isn't taking someone 1 on 1 defensively.
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2021, 11:42:07 PM »

Online gouki88

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I think Hakeem in his prime was a better two way player than Giannis is right now.  Jordan as well.  Lebron too in '12-'13.

Giannis is a great defender, but I don't understand why he doesn't step up and take the toughest assignments on the floor in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.  I remember Lebron going out of position to defend Derrick Rose in the 4th quarters in the playoffs in Rose's MVP year and absolutely shut Rose down when it mattered.  I didn't see Giannis doing that this postseason.
That is entirely to do with coaching. Using Giannis as the a sort of free safety on defence is the much smarter thing to do with how fouls are called. Let PJ Tucker and Jrue Holiday get physical and get the fouls - Giannis can come over the top and alter.

Giannis is a better defender than LeBron ever was

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2021, 12:31:14 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Giannis is a better defender than LeBron ever was

Agreed.

My question:  at their (current) peak:  Giannis or Kawhi?  Overall?  As a defender?


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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2021, 12:50:19 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Giannis makes me wonder.

If Bill Russell was born in 1995 and got all the modern day training, coaching, dieticians and other medical care, would his game look a hell of a lot like Giannis'?

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2021, 01:06:53 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Giannis is a better defender than LeBron ever was

Agreed.

My question:  at their (current) peak:  Giannis or Kawhi?  Overall?  As a defender?
Imo,

Overall: Kawhi cause he's a more versatile scorer, hence a better closer. He's also a bigger scoring threat off the ball. Theoretically, Giannis could play off the ball too as a roller/cutter. Not sure why the Bucks don't run more PnR plays for him. Probably because they lack an elite PnR ball handler (which is 100% their fault). Giannis and Middleton had some nice PnR plays this postseason. That said, Middleton was primarily creating his own shot out of the PnR instead of creating for Giannis. If the Bucks unlock Giannis' full potential as a roller, imo he'll surpass Kawhi.

As a defender: Giannis is a better help defender and rim protector. Kawhi is a better on-ball defender. I'd go with Giannis, simply because he's bigger. Uber-athletic bigs who can switch ball screens on the perimeter are the ultimate defensive weapons. They can defend pretty much anybody! I mean, Giannis was switching on CP3 yesterday and he was forcing him to take difficult fadeaways. As great as Kawhi is, I wouldn't feel comfortable with him switching on dominant bigs like Jokic or Embiid.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 04:30:20 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2021, 02:59:05 AM »

Online gouki88

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Giannis is a better defender than LeBron ever was

Agreed.

My question:  at their (current) peak:  Giannis or Kawhi?  Overall?  As a defender?
Ooft, tough question. Made tougher by Kawhi's defensive peak not being his overall peak. I think Kawhi was a slightly better defender - the impact he was making defensively in 14-15 and 15-16 for a 6'7" wing is pretty astounding, and his ability to lock-down guys is superior to Giannis'.

The most recent championship runs of both are quite similar too. Enormous individual efforts, playing through injury, willing victory against the odds in some match-ups. Awesome stuff.

I don't really know if I can split them. I think it would be easier to build around peak Kawhi because he's the better shooter and more versatile defender, but Giannis' physical dominance is absurd. He's like if Dwight could dribble the ball and pass.

I would happily take either :)

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2021, 07:39:23 AM »

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."

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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2021, 07:59:09 AM »

Online gouki88

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."
I donít think Worthy really belongs in the conversation given there have been people with multiple MVPs who played better defence and much better offence, like MJ or Kareem for example.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2021, 08:59:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."
I donít think Worthy really belongs in the conversation given there have been people with multiple MVPs who played better defence and much better offence, like MJ or Kareem for example.
Yeah.  Worthy wasn't a #1 scorer either, which you would need to be to even be considered in this conversation. 
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2021, 09:14:19 AM »

Online boscel33

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."
I donít think Worthy really belongs in the conversation given there have been people with multiple MVPs who played better defence and much better offence, like MJ or Kareem for example.
Yeah.  Worthy wasn't a #1 scorer either, which you would need to be to even be considered in this conversation.

Again, he wasn't the go to guy on the Lakers for a while and yet he still averaged 20PPG in the 80's while playing lock down D.  Let's see Giannis do that.  I'm not against Giannis, I just think a lot of people tend to overlook the 80's when it was a different style of basketball.  As for MVP, meh!  Worthy was going against his team mate in Magic and then Jordan, and if Bird say's he was the toughest matchup, that tells me he was a pretty good dam defender.  Just saying....

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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2021, 09:20:14 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."
I donít think Worthy really belongs in the conversation given there have been people with multiple MVPs who played better defence and much better offence, like MJ or Kareem for example.
Yeah.  Worthy wasn't a #1 scorer either, which you would need to be to even be considered in this conversation.

Again, he wasn't the go to guy on the Lakers for a while and yet he still averaged 20PPG in the 80's while playing lock down D.  Let's see Giannis do that.  I'm not against Giannis, I just think a lot of people tend to overlook the 80's when it was a different style of basketball.  As for MVP, meh!  Worthy was going against his team mate in Magic and then Jordan, and if Bird say's he was the toughest matchup, that tells me he was a pretty good dam defender.  Just saying....
We've seen Giannis over the last several seasons eclipse Worthy in just about every way.  He scores more, rebounds more, passes more, and is a better overall defender.  Worthy, quite simply, is no where near the player Giannis is, on either end of the floor.
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2021, 09:57:48 AM »

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I think Durant's defense is getting underlooked here.  He's never gotten All-NBA for it, but he's still been a defensive asset for most of his career.  8th amongst active players in defensive win shares, multiple top 20 seasons in that category, defensive rating, DBPM, and block percentage.  15th amongst active players in career blocks.  He's a very good defender.  Not an all-time great defender, but I think pairing very good defense with all-time great offense should be worth getting into the discussion.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2021, 10:59:28 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think Durant's defense is getting underlooked here.  He's never gotten All-NBA for it, but he's still been a defensive asset for most of his career.  8th amongst active players in defensive win shares, multiple top 20 seasons in that category, defensive rating, DBPM, and block percentage.  15th amongst active players in career blocks.  He's a very good defender.  Not an all-time great defender, but I think pairing very good defense with all-time great offense should be worth getting into the discussion.

He is a super team stacker, or go to winning team just like LeBron so to me this gives Giannis an edge.

McHale was a way better two way player than Worthy!

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2021, 11:17:42 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Giannis is truly deserving of all the praise he has received, especially for his Finals MVP performance, and Iím happy he won the title. However, I think we need to dial it back a little. Phoenix was a severely undersized team, especially when you consider Jae Crowder being their starting PF at 6í6Ē. Losing Dario Saric before the Finals hurt them too and their ability to have size in defending Giannis. I'm sorry, but when your 6í11Ē and a two time MVP, you should be dominating a 6í6Ē journeyman every night.