Poll: Where do you rank Giannis among PFs all time?

[liam]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

I don't think that Billups had any of those all-star appearances in his two years with The Wolves. Joe Smith? He's one of the good players that Garnett played with? 

[gouki88]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Chauncey Billups averaged 11PPG as a Timberwolf.
Joe Smith averaged 10 after peaking as a sophomore.
Rasho Nesterovic was a net negative every year of his career bar two as he was a genuinely horrible offensive player.
Anthony Peeler forgot how to shoot his first two seasons in Minny and was never as good as he was in LA.
Gary Trent was never the same after his 11 game 99-00 campaign and was a 15MPG mediocre bench big.
Sam Mitchell was just incredibly average.

Wally was good until he got injured, and then took a while to get good again, but he is not on the level of Middleton or Holiday at all. Your crusade to discredit KG is really weird, and factually wrong. Trying to paint Billups as an All-NBA calibre teammate of KG's is simply lying.

[Roy H.]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Chauncey Billups averaged 11PPG as a Timberwolf.
Joe Smith averaged 10 after peaking as a sophomore.
Rasho Nesterovic was a net negative every year of his career bar two as he was a genuinely horrible offensive player.
Anthony Peeler forgot how to shoot his first two seasons in Minny and was never as good as he was in LA.
Gary Trent was never the same after his 11 game 99-00 campaign and was a 15MPG mediocre bench big.
Sam Mitchell was just incredibly average.

Wally was good until he got injured, and then took a while to get good again, but he is not on the level of Middleton or Holiday at all. Your crusade to discredit KG is really weird, and factually wrong. Trying to paint Billups as an All-NBA calibre teammate of KG's is simply lying.

Yeah, I think it's possible to prefer Giannis without diminishing KG's greatness. 

Giannis was awesome in the Finals.  His name rightfully belongs next to the greats who put their teams on their back and carried them to a title.

But -- as much as they didn't always show it against the Suns -- Middleton and Jrue are legitimately good players.  Not "they were good once upon a time" or "looking back, they were coming into their own".  They're good now.  Middleton has averaged 19.9 points per game over his past four years.  This year he was good for 20 / 6 / 5 with 41.4% 3PT%.  Jrue averaged 18 / 5 / 6 / 39.2% 3PT% while playing absolutely elite defense.  Additionally, the Bucks had a total of seven guys average in double digits in the regular season.

Garnett never had that kind of production from teammates while in his prime.  The one year he got good production from his teammates (2004) he was an MVP and made the Western Conference Finals.  That was the only season in KG's Twolves career where he had two teammates average at least 15 points per game.

[gouki88]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Chauncey Billups averaged 11PPG as a Timberwolf.
Joe Smith averaged 10 after peaking as a sophomore.
Rasho Nesterovic was a net negative every year of his career bar two as he was a genuinely horrible offensive player.
Anthony Peeler forgot how to shoot his first two seasons in Minny and was never as good as he was in LA.
Gary Trent was never the same after his 11 game 99-00 campaign and was a 15MPG mediocre bench big.
Sam Mitchell was just incredibly average.

Wally was good until he got injured, and then took a while to get good again, but he is not on the level of Middleton or Holiday at all. Your crusade to discredit KG is really weird, and factually wrong. Trying to paint Billups as an All-NBA calibre teammate of KG's is simply lying.

Yeah, I think it's possible to prefer Giannis without diminishing KG's greatness. 

Giannis was awesome in the Finals.  His name rightfully belongs next to the greats who put their teams on their back and carried them to a title.

But -- as much as they didn't always show it against the Suns -- Middleton and Jrue are legitimately good players.  Not "they were good once upon a time" or "looking back, they were coming into their own".  They're good now.  Middleton has averaged 19.9 points per game over his past four years.  This year he was good for 20 / 6 / 5 with 41.4% 3PT%.  Jrue averaged 18 / 5 / 6 / 39.2% 3PT% while playing absolutely elite defense.  Additionally, the Bucks had a total of seven guys average in double digits in the regular season.

Garnett never had that kind of production from teammates while in his prime.  The one year he got good production from his teammates (2004) he was an MVP and made the Western Conference Finals.  That was the only season in KG's Twolves career where he had two teammates average at least 15 points per game.

Precisely. No need to lie in an attempt to bring KG down a peg - you can legitimately prefer Giannis.

Holiday and Middleton are both legitimate fringe All-Star players whose skills (efficient scoring, defence, passing) really translate well to playoff basketball. Guys like Lopez and Portis are also as legit as role-players come!

A lineup of Holiday-DiVincenzo-Middleton-Garnett-Lopez with Portis off the bench would have been epic in 2004

[Kiorrik]

Yo, hear me out;

Prime KG ... AND Giannis.

On the same team.

You could put hockey pucks as teammates and they'd still kick hiney.

[Moranis]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Chauncey Billups averaged 11PPG as a Timberwolf.
Joe Smith averaged 10 after peaking as a sophomore.
Rasho Nesterovic was a net negative every year of his career bar two as he was a genuinely horrible offensive player.
Anthony Peeler forgot how to shoot his first two seasons in Minny and was never as good as he was in LA.
Gary Trent was never the same after his 11 game 99-00 campaign and was a 15MPG mediocre bench big.
Sam Mitchell was just incredibly average.

Wally was good until he got injured, and then took a while to get good again, but he is not on the level of Middleton or Holiday at all. Your crusade to discredit KG is really weird, and factually wrong. Trying to paint Billups as an All-NBA calibre teammate of KG's is simply lying.

Yeah, I think it's possible to prefer Giannis without diminishing KG's greatness. 

Giannis was awesome in the Finals.  His name rightfully belongs next to the greats who put their teams on their back and carried them to a title.

But -- as much as they didn't always show it against the Suns -- Middleton and Jrue are legitimately good players.  Not "they were good once upon a time" or "looking back, they were coming into their own".  They're good now.  Middleton has averaged 19.9 points per game over his past four years.  This year he was good for 20 / 6 / 5 with 41.4% 3PT%.  Jrue averaged 18 / 5 / 6 / 39.2% 3PT% while playing absolutely elite defense.  Additionally, the Bucks had a total of seven guys average in double digits in the regular season.

Garnett never had that kind of production from teammates while in his prime.  The one year he got good production from his teammates (2004) he was an MVP and made the Western Conference Finals.  That was the only season in KG's Twolves career where he had two teammates average at least 15 points per game.

The year before (his all star appearance) and the year that Wally got hurt in, he averaged basically 18/5/3 shooting 44% from 3.  He was never the same after he got hurt.  Wally was obviously not the defender that Middleton or Holiday are, but that overall production is as good or better, especially accounting for pace.

Terrell Brandon was a multiple time all star before going to Minnesota and he was still in his prime before he got hurt. In his 2 full seasons in Minnesota he averaged basically 16.5/3.5/8 along with 2 steals on respectable shooting numbers and given the pace, that is actually better than Giannis and his teammates in Milwaukee.

As I've said pace matters.  The Bucks scored 120.1 ppg this year.  The early 00's was just a different era.  The Wolves never even topped 100 ppg.  In 03-04, they only scored 94.5 ppg on the season.  So the reality is, KG's teammates actually contributed a larger percentage of the points being scored.  So in say 01-02 where Nestorvic scored only 8.4 ppg and was 7th on the team, he actually accounted for 8.45% of the total per game points scored.  While this year for the Bucks, the 7th leading scorer was Bryn Forbes at 10 ppg, but that was actually only 8.32% of the total per game points scored. So Rasho was actually scoring a greater percentage than Forbes and thus was more valuable (from a points basis).

[Moranis]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

I don't think that Billups had any of those all-star appearances in his two years with The Wolves. Joe Smith? He's one of the good players that Garnett played with? 

When was Holiday's only all star appearance (it was in 2013).  Terrell Brandon was a better player than Holiday and Middleton.  Wally was a better and more consistent offensive player.  KG was in his prime with both of those guys for multiple seasons (they also had Chauncey, Laphonso Ellis, Rasho, Sam Mitchell, etc.).

The Wolves didn't win because KG wasn't good enough as the lead guy.  It is much the same reason the Pelicans couldn't win with AD.  Some players, even all time great ones, just aren't good in the lead dog role.  KG is one of those guys.  Absolutely great player.  Top 5 PF all time.  Basically a decade as a top 5 player.  All the accolades were well deserved, but KG just couldn't lead a team.  That is why the Wolves always underperformed. 

[Roy H.]

Terrell Brandon was a better player than Holiday and Middleton.  Wally was a better and more consistent offensive player.

You’re just making stuff up here.

Wally never averaged 20 ppg.  Middleton has done it three times.  Wally’s career high in assists was 3.1 per game.  Middleton had beat that six straight seasons.  Wally’s best eFG% was .544.  Middleton has surpassed that the last two seasons.

And Brandon was on the downside of his career in Minnesota.  He had one good year with the Wolves where he was basically Jrue Holiday without the defense.

[Moranis]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Got swept by a Mavs team that featured prime Nash and Nowitski. Team also had Finley, Hardaway, Van Excel. KG was playing with a bunch of scrubs compared to those guys.

Szczerbiak was an All-Star once and Billups had zero selections while on the Wolves. Didn’t make it until his 4th year with the Pistons in 2006. Middleton and Holiday are vastly superior to Szczerbiak and the 2002 version of of Billups. It’s not even close.

Giannis beat a soft Suns team who would have been bounced first round by the Lakers if AD and Lebron were even remotely healthy. They got lucky again when Kawhi couldn’t play in the conference finals and they still barely made it past the Clippers. The Suns were a good team, but very beatable.

The Nets were routing the Bucks in games 1 and 2 of their series and that was Without Harden. If the Nets had 2 of their big 3 heathy, that series is a gentleman sweep for Brooklyn.
Both Phoenix and Milwaukee were extremely lucky to make it to the finals.

Hardaway wasn't on that Dallas team (at least by the playoffs) and Van Exel was a role player by that point in his career.  Nash and Finley were obviously strong players to have, but Dallas won that series because KG couldn't do a thing to Dirk and Dirk had a field day on KG.  While Chauncey and Wally went toe to toe and basically matched the production of Nash and Finley (the Dallas duo was basically 46/11/11 while the Minny duo was basically 42/12/8).  Dallas won by 10.7 ppg, Dirk outscored KG by 9.3 ppg. 

As for your Brooklyn stuff, the Nets did have 2 of their big 3 in every single game in the series.  Durant played all 7, Irving played the first 4 (though got hurt in game 4 - the Bucks were leading at the time though) and Harden played the last 3 (and he played 45, 40, and 53 minutes).  The Bucks are a big strong team and start slow and then just wear teams down.  They did it against Brooklyn (down 0-2), they did it against the Hawks (down 0-1), and they did it against the Suns (down 0-2).  That is what they do.  They use their size and strength and just wear you down and then just feed Giannis who is unstoppable in the post.  He is the most dominant player in the game today and quite simply can't be stopped.

[liam]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

I don't think that Billups had any of those all-star appearances in his two years with The Wolves. Joe Smith? He's one of the good players that Garnett played with? 

When was Holiday's only all star appearance (it was in 2013).  Terrell Brandon was a better player than Holiday and Middleton.  Wally was a better and more consistent offensive player.  KG was in his prime with both of those guys for multiple seasons (they also had Chauncey, Laphonso Ellis, Rasho, Sam Mitchell, etc.).

The Wolves didn't win because KG wasn't good enough as the lead guy.  It is much the same reason the Pelicans couldn't win with AD.  Some players, even all time great ones, just aren't good in the lead dog role.  KG is one of those guys.  Absolutely great player.  Top 5 PF all time.  Basically a decade as a top 5 player.  All the accolades were well deserved, but KG just couldn't lead a team.  That is why the Wolves always underperformed.

lol

[Moranis]

Terrell Brandon was a better player than Holiday and Middleton.  Wally was a better and more consistent offensive player.

You’re just making stuff up here.

Wally never averaged 20 ppg.  Middleton has done it three times.  Wally’s career high in assists was 3.1 per game.  Middleton had beat that six straight seasons.  Wally’s best eFG% was .544.  Middleton has surpassed that the last two seasons.

And Brandon was on the downside of his career in Minnesota.  He had one good year with the Wolves where he was basically Jrue Holiday without the defense.

Wally has a better career FG% because he is better from both 2 and 3.  Khris is a better FT shooter. 

You keep using totals, without accounting for pace.  Through the first 9 years of their careers (which obviously includes the injury years for Wally), their per 100 possession numbers are pretty similar.  Wally the better shooter, but with a couple less shots, so Khris with the higher total.  Wally has the better ORTG and surprisingly DRTG as well.  Wally has more WS, a better VORP, and a better BPM. 

This just strikes me as a lot of in the moment type stuff.  Wally was a lot better player, especially before he got hurt, then you seemingly want to acknowledge.  Middleton is obviously a better defender right now than Wally ever was (he is also a better rebounder), but Wally was the better and more consistent shooter, which in my mind makes him the better and more consistent offensive player (which is what I said, not that Wally was a better overall player).

[Goldstar88]

 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.

In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Got swept by a Mavs team that featured prime Nash and Nowitski. Team also had Finley, Hardaway, Van Excel. KG was playing with a bunch of scrubs compared to those guys.

Szczerbiak was an All-Star once and Billups had zero selections while on the Wolves. Didn’t make it until his 4th year with the Pistons in 2006. Middleton and Holiday are vastly superior to Szczerbiak and the 2002 version of of Billups. It’s not even close.

Giannis beat a soft Suns team who would have been bounced first round by the Lakers if AD and Lebron were even remotely healthy. They got lucky again when Kawhi couldn’t play in the conference finals and they still barely made it past the Clippers. The Suns were a good team, but very beatable.

The Nets were routing the Bucks in games 1 and 2 of their series and that was Without Harden. If the Nets had 2 of their big 3 heathy, that series is a gentleman sweep for Brooklyn.
Both Phoenix and Milwaukee were extremely lucky to make it to the finals.

Hardaway wasn't on that Dallas team (at least by the playoffs) and Van Exel was a role player by that point in his career.  Nash and Finley were obviously strong players to have, but Dallas won that series because KG couldn't do a thing to Dirk and Dirk had a field day on KG.  While Chauncey and Wally went toe to toe and basically matched the production of Nash and Finley (the Dallas duo was basically 46/11/11 while the Minny duo was basically 42/12/8).  Dallas won by 10.7 ppg, Dirk outscored KG by 9.3 ppg. 

As for your Brooklyn stuff, the Nets did have 2 of their big 3 in every single game in the series.  Durant played all 7, Irving played the first 4 (though got hurt in game 4 - the Bucks were leading at the time though) and Harden played the last 3 (and he played 45, 40, and 53 minutes).  The Bucks are a big strong team and start slow and then just wear teams down.  They did it against Brooklyn (down 0-2), they did it against the Hawks (down 0-1), and they did it against the Suns (down 0-2).  That is what they do.  They use their size and strength and just wear you down and then just feed Giannis who is unstoppable in the post.  He is the most dominant player in the game today and quite simply can't be stopped.

I’m not sure what you are drinking... But I’ll have what you’re having.

[Somebody]

Don't bother Goldstar, Moranis will convince you that KG's best teammates were superstars in disguise whule glossing over the rest of the rosters he played with

[gouki88]

Terrell Brandon was a better player than Holiday and Middleton.  Wally was a better and more consistent offensive player.

Just stop it

[Jvalin]

Don't bother Goldstar, Moranis will convince you that KG's best teammates were superstars in disguise whule glossing over the rest of the rosters he played with

What's your take on the KG vs Giannis debate? I mean, you are super high on KG. You are also relatively low on Giannis, cause he ain't versatile enough as a go-to scorer in the half court (which is a fair argument for both of them, imo). Have you changed your mind after the Finals?

In a vacuum, I'd rank Duncan, Giannis and Dirk over KG (in that order). But that's just me.

In a fantasy draft like the ones we play, I'd rank KG above Giannis and Dirk. It's super easy to build a team around him. If you pair him with an elite scorer, he has no weakness in his game.