Poll

When all is said and done, where do you think Giannis is going to rank among PFs of all time?

#1
0 (0%)
#2
5 (83.3%)
#3
1 (16.7%)
#4
0 (0%)
#5
0 (0%)
#6
0 (0%)
outside of the top 6
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: Poll: Where do you rank Giannis among PFs all time?  (Read 9924 times)

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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2021, 11:38:21 AM »

Offline RJ87

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Giannis is truly deserving of all the praise he has received, especially for his Finals MVP performance, and I’m happy he won the title. However, I think we need to dial it back a little. Phoenix was a severely undersized team, especially when you consider Jae Crowder being their starting PF at 6’6”. Losing Dario Saric before the Finals hurt them too and their ability to have size in defending Giannis. I'm sorry, but when your 6’11” and a two time MVP, you should be dominating a 6’6” journeyman every night.

DeAndre Ayton was the primary defender on Giannis for the majority of the series, though. Suns may be a small team overall, but Ayton isn't.
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PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2021, 02:47:29 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."
Strange you pick worthy and mention Bird since it was Bird that said it was Worthy's team mate, Michael Cooper, that was the best defender ever against him. If that's true, seems Worthy wouldn't have been the main guy even guarding Bird.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2021, 02:57:50 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2021, 03:10:06 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Some one I haven't seen mentioned yet is James Worthy, probably because a lot of you never saw him play.

"Larry Bird admitted that James Worthy was his toughest matchup throughout his career and he created a lot of trouble for the opponents' offensive players, as he was often assigned to guard shooters, a thing in which he excelled." 

Oh, btw, 18/5 on a team where he wasn't the number one guy. 

"When not finishing fast breaks with his trademark Statue of Liberty dunks or swooping finger rolls, Worthy was also one of the best post players at his position, with a quick spin move and a deadly turnaround jumpshot."
Strange you pick worthy and mention Bird since it was Bird that said it was Worthy's team mate, Michael Cooper, that was the best defender ever against him. If that's true, seems Worthy wouldn't have been the main guy even guarding Bird.

I've read that too about Coop, but it's in quotes for a reason.  Maybe the person got the wrong quote, IDK, I just know what I used to watch with the Lakers Showtime....
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2021, 03:11:28 PM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

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Holy recency bias

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2021, 05:48:36 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 06:03:34 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2021, 05:58:08 PM »

Offline liam

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Sczezerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

I'd take Kevin McHale over Giannis before his broken feet. A great defender with crazy long arms and an unstoppable offensive machine.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2021, 06:09:20 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.



 KG could NEVER it his entire career. Drop 50 points in a closeout Finals game.  Great as Kevin was. That performance was just not in his DNA.

 KG would rather pass first.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2021, 06:21:05 PM »

Offline gouki88

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Sczezerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

I'd take Kevin McHale over Giannis before his broken feet. A great defender with crazy long arms and an unstoppable offensive machine.
No way! I love McHale, but it's like saying you'd take Pau Gasol over LeBron James - not the same conversation of players
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2021, 06:21:30 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.



 KG could NEVER it his entire career. Drop 50 points in a closeout Finals game.  Great as Kevin was. That performance was just not in his DNA.

 KG would rather pass first.

Yes, exactly. I remember Doc Rivers telling a story about how the Celtics in the lead up to the playoffs, tried to encourage Garnett to score more and ran plays for the sole reason of KG getting a bucket (even telling him that)...Rivers said Garnett still kept passing lol.

The difference is Giannis is no where near the defender KG was. Remember in Garnett's prime he was locking down big men and guards alike, and at the time he was up against real power forwards such as Charles Barkley, Chris Webber and Karl Malone.
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2021, 06:21:58 PM »

Offline gouki88

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.



 KG could NEVER it his entire career. Drop 50 points in a closeout Finals game.  Great as Kevin was. That performance was just not in his DNA.

 KG would rather pass first.
This is true, but KG was the better passer and defender. I think if he had played in a team of this Bucks calibre they would have won a championship without a doubt. KG was better at elevating his teammates than Giannis, in my opinion
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2021, 06:25:09 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.



 KG could NEVER it his entire career. Drop 50 points in a closeout Finals game.  Great as Kevin was. That performance was just not in his DNA.

 KG would rather pass first.

Prime KG against that soft Suns team? I think he could drop 50. You think Giannis is putting up 50 on the Lakers with prime Kobe and Shaq? That’s who KG was going up against in the playoffs.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2021, 06:27:13 PM »

Offline gouki88

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.



 KG could NEVER it his entire career. Drop 50 points in a closeout Finals game.  Great as Kevin was. That performance was just not in his DNA.

 KG would rather pass first.

Prime KG against that soft Suns team? I think he could drop 50. You think Giannis is putting up 50 on the Lakers with prime Kobe and Shaq? That’s who KG was going up against in the playoffs.
KG also had to play for the T-Wolves, and suffer through the Joe Smith saga
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2021, 08:27:51 PM »

Online Moranis

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.
In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load. 
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Re: Poll: Is Giannis the best 2-way player of all time?
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2021, 09:25:25 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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 This Giannis is better than any version of Garnett I've ever seen.  And KG Living Legend is the name.

I’d still take Prime KG over Giannis. In the 2001-2002 Playoffs Garnett averaged 24ppg, 18.7reb, 5ast and was the best defensive player in the NBA. Playoffs the following year He averaged 27ppg, 15.7reb, 5.2ast. KG played against much better competition, the game was more physical than it is today and guys were actually allowed to play defense. Who was the best player that KG had to play with in Minnesota, Wally Szczerbiak? He never had a Kris Middleton or Jrue Holiday caliber teammate while he was there.

KG is the most talented PF of all time. Too bad he wasted so much of his career with the Timberwolves.
In 2001-2002, Minnesota played 3 playoff games getting swept in the 1st round by the Mavericks.  That Minnesota team had Chauncey Billups and Wally Szczerbiak, who collectively had 8 All Star Appearances and Billups also had 3 All NBA Team appearances.  That Wolves team also had former #1 overall pick Joe Smith coming off the bench, Rasho Nesterovic (who started at center for a NBA champion), Anthony Peeler, Gary Trent, and Sam Mitchell.  And the reason the Wolves got swept was because KG couldn't stop Dirk, who went off for 33.3 ppg and 15.7 rpg with 3 spg while shooting a mind boggling 72.7% from 3 and 52.6% from the field. 

For the record, Middleton and Holiday have 3 All Star games and 0 All NBA Team appearances (Lopez also has appeared in 1 all star game).  The reality is the Bucks supporting cast has always failed Giannis.  Even this year, Giannis had so much of the work load, because his #2 guy just isn't consistently good enough (Middleton obviously can have games where he looks like the best player in the world, they are just few and far between).  Giannis basically had to be prime-Shaq for the Bucks to win, and he was, which makes it all the more impressive.

KG's teammates were always better than people realized, the real problem those Wolves had is KG wasn't a true #1 scoring option.  He was always much better served as a secondary or tertiary offensive player.  It is why his only real success in Minnesota is when he had Spreewell and why he worked so well with Pierce and Allen.  KG needed someone else to be the offensive engine.  Those guys weren't as good overall as KG, but he just couldn't handle that load.

Got swept by a Mavs team that featured prime Nash and Nowitski. Team also had Finley, Hardaway, Van Excel. KG was playing with a bunch of scrubs compared to those guys.

Szczerbiak was an All-Star once and Billups had zero selections while on the Wolves. Didn’t make it until his 4th year with the Pistons in 2006. Middleton and Holiday are vastly superior to Szczerbiak and the 2002 version of of Billups. It’s not even close.

Giannis beat a soft Suns team who would have been bounced first round by the Lakers if AD and Lebron were even remotely healthy. They got lucky again when Kawhi couldn’t play in the conference finals and they still barely made it past the Clippers. The Suns were a good team, but very beatable.

The Nets were routing the Bucks in games 1 and 2 of their series and that was Without Harden. If the Nets had 2 of their big 3 heathy, that series is a gentleman sweep for Brooklyn.
Both Phoenix and Milwaukee were extremely lucky to make it to the finals.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.