CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: OhioGreen on February 09, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
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I think this team is just a couple big men, 1 center 1 PF away from contending.
Not having Rondo will hurt in the playoffs, but I still think noise can be made with who we have plus a couple pieces.
Every one was complaining about Lee,Green and Terry not playing up to contract. Well now they are.
Theres not much DA can do right now. Bass can be replaced, but to get something really good in return like a Josh Smith, Lee, Green, or Terry has to be involved. And right now those 3 together are worth more than Smith.
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Once KG and Pierce leave, things are going to be pretty grim regardless of whether we pick up a few non-elite prospects.
My advice is to enjoy the ride in the present, because the future is going to be rough.
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Roy is correct. enjoy KG and Pierce while you can. When they are gone.....it may be LONG time before the Celtics have Hall of Fame player on the team once again.
I treasure every game they still suit up for.......win or lose
Or just become a Laker fan .....you are entitled to instant gratification and revolving door of mega stars every year,any year ,who ever they want , money no object.
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Is it fool's gold? I don't know. I can't say if this level of play will continue or if we're about to see another 6 game losing streak. I tend to think not, but we'll see.
I do agree with those who suggest that the ceiling for this team is still the same, which is to say that they have a shot against any team in the East except for the Heat -- though I'm not so confident against a big team like the Pacers or Knicks.
All that means is that I feel more or less the same as I did prior to Rondo's injury. If it's possible to get a decent return on Pierce and Garnett, meaning youngish assets who are similar in value to players we could hope to get in the mid to late lottery in the next couple of years, then I'd be for that.
In other words, if DA could turn Pierce and Garnett into Eric Bledsoe, Deandre Jordan, and Harrison Barnes, for example, I'd be very disappointed if he didn't pull the trigger.
However, I have serious doubts that that sort of return is really on the table. If it were, Pierce and Garnett would have been traded by now.
That said, I'll be disappointed if Ainge doesn't make any moves prior to the deadline. At the very least I think he should be looking to unload Jason Terry to save salary this season and the next two seasons. If any team is willing to take on Bass, provided they give us back a rotation-worthy big or two in return, he should be gone, too. I'd like to hold onto Courtney Lee, because I see him as a good value now and in the future. But I'd be okay to see him moved in the right deal (e.g. to make a Pierce/KG trade work).
Ainge should be (and is, I think) in total asset-acquisition mode with this team. Anybody who is strictly a "win-now" player should be on the block. But, that's not the same thing as being in firesale / tank mode, which is why it seems very unlikely Pierce or KG will get traded (and DA has said as much).
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I have no idea what mind of move the OP is proposing? None at all?
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I have no idea what mind of move the OP is proposing? None at all?
Would rather see a total rebuild starting NOW!
Droop and Roy both with good points---whenever KG/PP are gone things will be bad. I just believe we'll get back to competitive sooner, if we start rebuilding now. If the building blocks to that are such that Droop mentioned, and Danny were to be offered Bledsoe and Jordan, while not ELITE at the present time, doesn't mean they couldn't be down the road--and you have to pull the trigger on deals like that, rather than lose KG/PP for nothing! If you could further get a HBarnes or a KLeonard,Splitter, etc in a separate deal, you'd already have a bunch of pieces to build on. Something Danny could work with, rather than waiting a couple of years.
The reason the last few years have been so nice is that every year we've had a SERIOUS chance to win a title. I just want to get back to having that kind of chance sooner, than just playing it out and watching KG and PP ride into the sunset!
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
Agree the future is not so grim. Who knew Ainge would trade for KG? I have faith in Danny and I CERTAINLY do not think he will overreact.
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I think the win streak could very likely be fools gold....I also want to ride it out and see for myself.
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I have no idea what mind of move the OP is proposing? None at all?
Would rather see a total rebuild starting NOW!
Droop and Roy both with good points---whenever KG/PP are gone things will be bad. I just believe we'll get back to competitive sooner, if we start rebuilding now. If the building blocks to that are such that Droop mentioned, and Danny were to be offered Bledsoe and Jordan, while not ELITE at the present time, doesn't mean they couldn't be down the road--and you have to pull the trigger on deals like that, rather than lose KG/PP for nothing! If you could further get a HBarnes or a KLeonard,Splitter, etc in a separate deal, you'd already have a bunch of pieces to build on. Something Danny could work with, rather than waiting a couple of years.
The reason the last few years have been so nice is that every year we've had a SERIOUS chance to win a title. I just want to get back to having that kind of chance sooner, than just playing it out and watching KG and PP ride into the sunset!
You probably have a point, but I don't think any sort of good trades for the Celtics are about to happen. No one will hand over their young pieces on a silver platter for veterans that easily.
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I have no idea what mind of move the OP is proposing? None at all?
Would rather see a total rebuild starting NOW!
Droop and Roy both with good points---whenever KG/PP are gone things will be bad. I just believe we'll get back to competitive sooner, if we start rebuilding now. If the building blocks to that are such that Droop mentioned, and Danny were to be offered Bledsoe and Jordan, while not ELITE at the present time, doesn't mean they couldn't be down the road--and you have to pull the trigger on deals like that, rather than lose KG/PP for nothing! If you could further get a HBarnes or a KLeonard,Splitter, etc in a separate deal, you'd already have a bunch of pieces to build on. Something Danny could work with, rather than waiting a couple of years.
The reason the last few years have been so nice is that every year we've had a SERIOUS chance to win a title. I just want to get back to having that kind of chance sooner, than just playing it out and watching KG and PP ride into the sunset!
Starting rebuild effort sooner doesn't mean you'll get into contention sooner than you would have otherwise. It could potentially retard when that occurs, like what happened with the Detroit Pistons.
And, the most likely scenario is that when you rebuild getting a team like we currently have now is pretty much what you'd be aspiring to pretty much unless you get extra lucky and get a player that comes once or twice in a decade, something we currently have actually, and still playing at a high level.
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I don't know what "fool's gold" would be. If we go .500 on the road would it be? When we had Rondo and Sully we got blasted on the road by horrible teams and didn't win a game on that Sac trip.
Of course we are going to lose some games. There hasn't been a team yet that hasn't lost some games. But my eyes don't lie, we are playing a lot harder and better since Rondo went down.
I'm not saying that it is Rondo's fault. Maybe when he is there everyone expects him to do too much and they lower their games. I think everyone has to admit we have played better over this stretch of 6 games than at any other point during the year.
I'd take my chances riding this group, then hope Pierce and KG come back for one more shot with a healthy Rondo and Sully. At the deadline next year Pierce will be expiring and KG might be ready to retire at the end of the season. We could get the same package next year we'd get for them now.
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I have no idea what mind of move the OP is proposing? None at all?
Would rather see a total rebuild starting NOW!
Droop and Roy both with good points---whenever KG/PP are gone things will be bad. I just believe we'll get back to competitive sooner, if we start rebuilding now. If the building blocks to that are such that Droop mentioned, and Danny were to be offered Bledsoe and Jordan, while not ELITE at the present time, doesn't mean they couldn't be down the road--and you have to pull the trigger on deals like that, rather than lose KG/PP for nothing! If you could further get a HBarnes or a KLeonard,Splitter, etc in a separate deal, you'd already have a bunch of pieces to build on. Something Danny could work with, rather than waiting a couple of years.
The reason the last few years have been so nice is that every year we've had a SERIOUS chance to win a title. I just want to get back to having that kind of chance sooner, than just playing it out and watching KG and PP ride into the sunset!
Starting rebuild effort sooner doesn't mean you'll get into contention sooner than you would have otherwise. It could potentially retard when that occurs, like what happened with the Detroit Pistons.
And, the most likely scenario is that when you rebuild getting a team like we currently have now is pretty much what you'd be aspiring to pretty much unless you get extra lucky and get a player that comes once or twice in a decade, something we currently have actually, and still playing at a high level.
I agree with you that rebuilding likely means that the most realistic "positive" result is a team that is more or less as competitive as the one we have now.
The difference is that a rebuild would hopefully get us a team that can be this competitive for 4-5 seasons at least. Whereas this team has a shelf life of the rest of this season and then maybe next season.
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
What trades for either pierce or KG have you seen that have been super enticing though?
Forgive me for not jumping out of my chair for deandre jordan and eric bledsoe, or anything pierce might fetch at this point.
There is no reason to trade our core now just for the sake of getting a few role players. You're not speeding up the rebuild process by acquiring mediocre to average assets for pierce and garnett. The way to properly rebuild is to either trade your core for high draft picks (which aint gonna happen now), or after your core leaves/retires, suck it up big time to get early lottery picks, which you can then develop or trade for a new core.
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
What trades for either pierce or KG have you seen that have been super enticing though?
Forgive me for not jumping out of my chair for deandre jordan and eric bledsoe, or anything pierce might fetch at this point.
There is no reason to trade our core now just for the sake of getting a few role players. You're not speeding up the rebuild process by acquiring mediocre to average assets for pierce and garnett. The way to properly rebuild is to either trade your core for high draft picks (which aint gonna happen now), or after your core leaves/retires, suck it up big time to get early lottery picks, which you can then develop or trade for a new core.
They are simply too old to trade for
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
What trades for either pierce or KG have you seen that have been super enticing though?
Forgive me for not jumping out of my chair for deandre jordan and eric bledsoe, or anything pierce might fetch at this point.
There is no reason to trade our core now just for the sake of getting a few role players. You're not speeding up the rebuild process by acquiring mediocre to average assets for pierce and garnett. The way to properly rebuild is to either trade your core for high draft picks (which aint gonna happen now), or after your core leaves/retires, suck it up big time to get early lottery picks, which you can then develop or trade for a new core.
They are simply too old to trade for
Not much point in trading them if they're still great players and have close to no worth.
If you put deandre jordan on a crap team it will still be a crap team. Without blake griffin and chris paul that clippers unit is absolutely nowhere. Not even close to the playoffs. You may aswell get a cheaper guy to fill his spot, and get minutes into your draft picks/rookie contracts during your rebuild.
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
What trades for either pierce or KG have you seen that have been super enticing though?
Forgive me for not jumping out of my chair for deandre jordan and eric bledsoe, or anything pierce might fetch at this point.
There is no reason to trade our core now just for the sake of getting a few role players. You're not speeding up the rebuild process by acquiring mediocre to average assets for pierce and garnett. The way to properly rebuild is to either trade your core for high draft picks (which aint gonna happen now), or after your core leaves/retires, suck it up big time to get early lottery picks, which you can then develop or trade for a new core.
They are simply too old to trade for
Not much point in trading them if they're still great players and have close to no worth.
If you put deandre jordan on a crap team it will still be a crap team. Without blake griffin and chris paul that clippers unit is absolutely nowhere. Not even close to the playoffs. You may aswell get a cheaper guy to fill his spot, and get minutes into your draft picks/rookie contracts during your rebuild.
The funny thing is how people are salivating for Bledsoe and Jordan, yet the Clippers have been struggling even though they have a roster loaded with talent, just because Chris Paul has been injured.
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
What trades for either pierce or KG have you seen that have been super enticing though?
Forgive me for not jumping out of my chair for deandre jordan and eric bledsoe, or anything pierce might fetch at this point.
There is no reason to trade our core now just for the sake of getting a few role players. You're not speeding up the rebuild process by acquiring mediocre to average assets for pierce and garnett. The way to properly rebuild is to either trade your core for high draft picks (which aint gonna happen now), or after your core leaves/retires, suck it up big time to get early lottery picks, which you can then develop or trade for a new core.
They are simply too old to trade for
Not much point in trading them if they're still great players and have close to no worth.
If you put deandre jordan on a crap team it will still be a crap team. Without blake griffin and chris paul that clippers unit is absolutely nowhere. Not even close to the playoffs. You may aswell get a cheaper guy to fill his spot, and get minutes into your draft picks/rookie contracts during your rebuild.
The funny thing is how people are salivating for Bledsoe and Jordan, yet the Clippers have been struggling even though they have a roster loaded with talent, just because Chris Paul has been injured.
Exactly right. Chris Paul offsets the lack of offensive creativity from del negro, but when he gets injured (which is quite a bit), the offense looks ugly, real ugly.
As for Jordan, he has elite athleticism and gets a fair few rebounds because of it. He has very little offensive game though, and can't shoot free throws.
Bledsoe has great athleticism aswell and plays great defense, but in the end he is really just an undersized shooting guard that can't shoot very well.
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
I'm with ya. I was ready to move on to the next phase before last deadline
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First off, don't get me wrong---the last few games have been great! Best part of the season to this point! Really surprising, considering RR and Sully injuries, and unexpected. However--trying to keep things in context a bit--5 of those 6 games were played at home, against some pretty bad teams, or the Clips minus CP(who have been pretty bad without him!). The Heat took a Hurculean effort to just barely pull it out, ON OUR HOME COURT! So while this little streak has been fun, let's not get carried away.
After our next game against Denver, we start a stretch of 10 of 13 ON THE ROAD! Also the 3 at home are against some pretty decent teams(Chi,GS, and Atl). Problem is most of that schedule is AFTER the trade deadline!!! I'm afraid that Danny is lured into believing that this recent run is the real deal, does nothing, and then we start going down the tubes when the schedule gets tougher, and then it's too late to do anything!
I just keep looking down the road, post KG/PP(whether that is after this season, or next perhaps), and things look REALLY grim!!! RR, damaged goods right now(though he should be back full strength in time), Sully(he will never be the same--and we should trade him for whatever we can get as soon as he comes back!), nothing for KG/PP, and only a single draft pick this year! Doesn't leave you with a whole lot! And not much of anything to do future deals with either--RR,AB, and maybe JG if he continues to step it up and gets to that next level!
Just terrified if Danny doesn't move now we're in big trouble! We've got four games before the deadline, so how we do in them could also have a big impact on his thinking!
We'll see!!!
What trades for either pierce or KG have you seen that have been super enticing though?
Forgive me for not jumping out of my chair for deandre jordan and eric bledsoe, or anything pierce might fetch at this point.
There is no reason to trade our core now just for the sake of getting a few role players. You're not speeding up the rebuild process by acquiring mediocre to average assets for pierce and garnett. The way to properly rebuild is to either trade your core for high draft picks (which aint gonna happen now), or after your core leaves/retires, suck it up big time to get early lottery picks, which you can then develop or trade for a new core.
They are simply too old to trade for
Not much point in trading them if they're still great players and have close to no worth.
If you put deandre jordan on a crap team it will still be a crap team. Without blake griffin and chris paul that clippers unit is absolutely nowhere. Not even close to the playoffs. You may aswell get a cheaper guy to fill his spot, and get minutes into your draft picks/rookie contracts during your rebuild.
The funny thing is how people are salivating for Bledsoe and Jordan, yet the Clippers have been struggling even though they have a roster loaded with talent, just because Chris Paul has been injured.
your right.......Clippers. are nothing great without CP3 to lead them......
CP3. is the most important man on the Clips, hands down.........I could coach the Clippers , if CP3 ison the floor
CP3 is on the floor give him some decent players and he is likely to win.
Jordon ....never see the HOF.......Bledsoe....what a joke
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
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I hope Ainge understands that if Rondo and Sullinger return healthy next season and he can add a useful free agent big, this is a legitimate contender next season.
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I hope Ainge understands that if Rondo and Sullinger return healthy next season and he can add a useful free agent big, this is a legitimate contender next season.
Not if rondo goes back to holding the ball for the whole shot clock. Plus you don't know how much of a drop off pierce and KG will have. They will be another year older and you can't just ignore that.
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since we are so worried about fools gold and chemistry all at the same time...let's just grab a couple bigs who we take the best calulated risk with that we feel could help us and play it out with no trades? how about that?
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so, solid ball movement and playing defense is fools gold?
this team is finally jeling...how many wins do we need before its not "fools gold" this team hasnt played this well even on the previous 6-game winning streak.
Terry/Green are finally showing the consistency we wanted when they were signed
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I hope Ainge understands that if Rondo and Sullinger return healthy next season and he can add a useful free agent big, this is a legitimate contender next season.
Not if rondo goes back to holding the ball for the whole shot clock.
One would assume that Doc will try and meld what's working now into the offense with Rondo. Maybe he'll stay with the uptempo style which will be significantly better with our best ballhandler and passer in the game.
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so, solid ball movement and playing defense is fools gold?
this team is finally jeling...how many wins do we need before its not "fools gold" this team hasnt played this well even on the previous 6-game winning streak.
Terry/Green are finally showing the consistency we wanted when they were signed
I think by fools gold he means thinking this team has a legit shot at a title which nobody outside of celtics homers believe to be true.
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...
Little to nothing in my stance has changed since the beginning of the year regardless of how we were playing throughout the season.
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...
Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...
Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?
Yes...
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...
Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?
Yes...
You can't possibly feel the same way about this team after losing players of that magnitude. Best player on the team and best rebounder, done for the season.....
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...
Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?
Yes...
You can't possibly feel the same way about this team after losing players of that magnitude. Best player on the team and best rebounder, done for the season.....
Problem is that I don't consider Rondo as the best player of this team, or let me put it this way...the most valuable or important. I've always sustained that a player's added value to the team is as good as the difference of the players that replace him. And since this roster was constructed, I've always said that this team would be fine without Rondo majorly because we're deep in the guard position, with multiple players who can handle the ball, and all of them are talented players.
In fact, was a bit more concerned with losing Sully than Rondo more than anything, but as I mentioned right when went down for the season, this team wasn't constructed with the consideration that Sully would be producing for us as he has been. That he had been, it's been a bonus, but still we got players that can step in and contribute.
I also had mentioned that a big problem for us this year was that Bass and Sully can't play together... well problem solved, and Bass is looking better now (though I think that has more to do with him losing his starting position to Sully against Miami).
I've also continuously mentioned that I'm high on Wilcox and what he brings to this team. More concerned right now about Doc overusing Collins.
The only thing that has changed for me and how I've looked at this team is Jason Terry. Part of it because I was surprised and how poorly him and Rondo played together (even though since the beginning of the season I had stated that they should not play together through long stretches, we give too much size). Yet my position has always stayed that no one in our guard rotation should be traded, but if needed be, and I had to choose between Lee and Terry, then Terry should go.
Since Rondo went down, now things changed and Terry is playing better without him. So no longer has much value for me to trade him.
I remember a thread right after that Nets game we played without Rondo, someone mentioning "this game proves that we need Rondo to win", and posted that completely disagreed, that it proved just the opposite.
In all, I always saw this team as a talented group that could sustain a loss from Rondo, and not falter. Don't see why now that projection should be invalidated now that it has actually happened, and coincidentally we're playing well. This is the reason why we have depth, but now with Rondo and Sully down, depth is a bit of a concern; we have less margin for error/injuries.
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.
The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.
You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?
I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...
Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?
Yes...
You can't possibly feel the same way about this team after losing players of that magnitude. Best player on the team and best rebounder, done for the season.....
Problem is that I don't consider Rondo as the best player of this team, or let me put it this way...the most valuable or important. I've always sustained that a player's added value to the team is as good as the difference of the players that replace him. And since this roster was constructed, I've always said that this team would be fine without Rondo majorly because we're deep in the guard position, with multiple players who can handle the ball, and all of them are talented players.
In fact, was a bit more concerned with losing Sully than Rondo more than anything, but as I mentioned right when went down for the season, this team wasn't constructed with the consideration that Sully would be producing for us as he has been. That he had been, it's been a bonus, but still we got players that can step in and contribute.
I also had mentioned that a big problem for us this year was that Bass and Sully can't play together... well problem solved, and Bass is looking better now (though I think that has more to do with him losing his starting position to Sully against Miami).
I've also continuously mentioned that I'm high on Wilcox and what he brings to this team. More concerned right now about Doc overusing Collins.
The only thing that has changed for me and how I've looked at this team is Jason Terry. Part of it because I was surprised and how poorly him and Rondo played together (even though since the beginning of the season I had stated that they should not play together through long stretches, we give too much size). Yet my position has always stayed that no one in our guard rotation should be traded, but if needed be, and I had to choose between Lee and Terry, then Terry should go.
Since Rondo went down, now things changed and Terry is playing better without him. So no longer has much value for me to trade him.
I remember a thread right after that Nets game we played without Rondo, someone mentioning "this game proves that we need Rondo to win", and posted that completely disagreed, that it proved just the opposite.
In all, I always saw this team as a talented group that could sustain a loss from Rondo, and not falter. Don't see why now that projection should be invalidated now that it has actually happened, and coincidentally we're playing well. This is the reason why we have depth, but now with Rondo and Sully down, depth is a bit of a concern; we have less margin for error/injuries.
I agree
I hated losing Sully much more. And I also don't think Rondo is our BEST player. TP for you.
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I hope Ainge understands that if Rondo and Sullinger return healthy next season and he can add a useful free agent big, this is a legitimate contender next season.
Of course it is. With PP losing more of his jump shot and going flatter by the day, and no legs, KG playing 25 mins a game next year, JET taking 2/3 of the season to find his shot, hell we will go undefeated! ::)
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I certainly never said we could never play well again.
However, what I did say was
Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.
"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?
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Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.
"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?
Dude, you're literally talking to yourself.
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Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.
"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?
Dude, you're literally talking to yourself.
You might want to take a closer look.
I was quoting what I said back in December.
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I certainly never said we could never play well again.
However, what I did say was
Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.
"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?
Have no clue what you're getting at.
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No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.
I certainly never said we could never play well again.
However, what I did say was
Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.
"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?
Have no clue what you're getting at.
I'm pretty sure "playing well" is always used as a relative term as to if one is playing well enough to win a championship.
Ether that or you turn into the ATL Hawks
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Have no clue what you're getting at.
You made it sound as if believing this team could play well and believing we´re incapable of winning a championship are mutually exclusive, which I object.
Unless you were talking purely about people doubting the ability of this team to play well, at all, which would be a rather radical stance I haven´t seen posted yet, and in which case I´m sorry for misinterpreting your post.
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I'm pretty sure "playing well" is always used as a relative term as to if one is playing well enough to win a championship.
I´m not sure if this post is tongue-in-cheek.
If you have one of the highest payrolls in the league, and a bunch of highly paid players on long-term contracts, then yes, absolutely.
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Have no clue what you're getting at.
You made it sound as if believing this team could play well and believing we´re incapable of winning a championship are mutually exclusive, which I object.
Unless you were talking purely about people doubting the ability of this team to play well, at all, which would be a rather radical stance I haven´t seen posted yet, and in which case I´m sorry for misinterpreting your post.
Could go either way, I really don't care to make the distinction. This team is capable of playing very well, and beating anyone in the league and yes even get a championship. It's been my stance at all points of the season.
I'd say this much, I don't think the multitude of the doubters were envisioning us capable of playing like we've been lately, so that's that. But now many are revising their stance with "oh, it's because suddenly we're playing hard now" which is crap in my opinion.
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I find this thread pretty stupid.
All these so-called Celtics fans who want to trade KG and Pierce, do you not realize the simple fact that you need stars to win a championship, not role players, or extreme luck?
Let's be real, if you call rondo a superstar, you are dreaming. As good as he is, he won't carry the team by himself.
For us to win a championship with rondo and role players, every major star on the opposing team has to go down.
Additionally, guess what? We are not as lucky as OKC to build a championship team through the draft.
If we trade Pierce and KG now, we will be awful for the next several years.
We will not be the bobcats because rondo and other trade assets will hopefully be good enough to at least make the playoffs or just miss them, and we will never be championship contenders for obvious reasons.
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I don't really think the issue is fool's gold at this point.
Instead I think it has to do with Danny likely not getting sufficiently good offers for KG and Pierce, who apparently would both likely have to go, to give the remaining team the advantages of at least remaining competitive (e.g., preserving the value of the contracts that they'll still be holding) and new assets to offset their plunge.
I don't think Danny's at all fooled about their chances in the playoffs. I think his hands may be tied now with the double shackles of his top asset being injured and his boss now shifting his fan-loyalty to a possible overvaluing of that asset (Rondo) once he's fit for trading again.
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Could go either way, I really don't care to make the distinction. This team is capable of playing very well, and beating anyone in the league and yes even get a championship. It's been my stance at all points of the season.
I'd say this much, I don't think the multitude of the doubters were envisioning us capable of playing like we've been lately, so that's that. But now many are revising their stance with "oh, it's because suddenly we're playing hard now" which is crap in my opinion.
You "don´t care to make the distinction"? Are you at least considering the possibility that you´re wrong?
Well, at least now you know that there are indeed nuances in the opinions on this matter, and that it´s not as black and white as you´ve pictured it.
Now, if, against all odds, your stance, which you had all season long, is proven to be false, will you draw any consequences?
The Celtics are the "good guys", after all. You want the good guys to win in the end, no? I mean, you´re not just a "consumer", who doesn´t care about wins or losses, you´re a fan, right?
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Could go either way, I really don't care to make the distinction. This team is capable of playing very well, and beating anyone in the league and yes even get a championship. It's been my stance at all points of the season.
I'd say this much, I don't think the multitude of the doubters were envisioning us capable of playing like we've been lately, so that's that. But now many are revising their stance with "oh, it's because suddenly we're playing hard now" which is crap in my opinion.
You "don´t care to make the distinction"? Are you at least considering the possibility that you´re wrong?
Well, at least now you know that there are indeed nuances in the opinions on this matter, and that it´s not as black and white as you´ve pictured it.
Now, if, against all odds, your stance, which you had all season long, is proven to be false, will you draw any consequences?
The Celtics are the "good guys", after all. You want the good guys to win in the end, no? I mean, you´re not just a "consumer", who doesn´t care about wins or losses. You´re a fan, right?
Wrong about what exactly? I like our team, I like our talent, and like our ability to perform.
That they execute is another matter.
Back in 2007-2008 we completely dominated in regular season, and almost lost in the first two rounds. Does the outlook of that team being a capable title contender change if they for some reason didn't go all the way, when it really was an issue of executing more than anything?
If this team executes as it should, plays the game of basketball as it should, defends as it should, and we still are found to be out-matched, then sure I'll concede I was wrong about this team.
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Could go either way, I really don't care to make the distinction. This team is capable of playing very well, and beating anyone in the league and yes even get a championship. It's been my stance at all points of the season.
I'd say this much, I don't think the multitude of the doubters were envisioning us capable of playing like we've been lately, so that's that. But now many are revising their stance with "oh, it's because suddenly we're playing hard now" which is crap in my opinion.
You "don´t care to make the distinction"? Are you at least considering the possibility that you´re wrong?
Well, at least now you know that there are indeed nuances in the opinions on this matter, and that it´s not as black and white as you´ve pictured it.
Now, if, against all odds, your stance, which you had all season long, is proven to be false, will you draw any consequences?
The Celtics are the "good guys", after all. You want the good guys to win in the end, no? I mean, you´re not just a "consumer", who doesn´t care about wins or losses. You´re a fan, right?
Wrong about what exactly? I like our team, I like our talent, and like our ability to perform.
That they execute is another matter.
Back in 2007-2008 we completely dominated in regular season, and almost lost in the first two rounds. Does the outlook of that team being a capable title contender change if they for some reason didn't go all the way, when it really was an issue of executing more than anything?
If this team executes as it should, plays the game of basketball as it should, defends as it should, and we still are found to be out-matched, then sure I'll concede I was wrong about this team.
If the 08 Celts had lost to the Hawks or the Cavs the main reason (IMO) would have been that they needed to learn to play together in the postseason and that lack of experience would have prevented them from being true title contenders that year.
As for this team, if they're contenders, sooner or later they'll be matched up against a good team with a tough defense that will really game plan for the Celts and make adjustments to their defense as the series progresses. The game planning and adjustments are meant to limit our ability to execute. How well we're able to maintain our execution will determine whether we're contenders.
I don't think that everyone's saying that if the Celts are playing very well and executing their motion half court offense that they're completely incapable of beating good teams. I think it's more of a case that people think they'll have quite a bit of trouble beating top teams because they'll have trouble executing when the chips are down.
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Could go either way, I really don't care to make the distinction. This team is capable of playing very well, and beating anyone in the league and yes even get a championship. It's been my stance at all points of the season.
I'd say this much, I don't think the multitude of the doubters were envisioning us capable of playing like we've been lately, so that's that. But now many are revising their stance with "oh, it's because suddenly we're playing hard now" which is crap in my opinion.
You "don´t care to make the distinction"? Are you at least considering the possibility that you´re wrong?
Well, at least now you know that there are indeed nuances in the opinions on this matter, and that it´s not as black and white as you´ve pictured it.
Now, if, against all odds, your stance, which you had all season long, is proven to be false, will you draw any consequences?
The Celtics are the "good guys", after all. You want the good guys to win in the end, no? I mean, you´re not just a "consumer", who doesn´t care about wins or losses. You´re a fan, right?
Wrong about what exactly? I like our team, I like our talent, and like our ability to perform.
That they execute is another matter.
Back in 2007-2008 we completely dominated in regular season, and almost lost in the first two rounds. Does the outlook of that team being a capable title contender change if they for some reason didn't go all the way, when it really was an issue of executing more than anything?
If this team executes as it should, plays the game of basketball as it should, defends as it should, and we still are found to be out-matched, then sure I'll concede I was wrong about this team.
If the 08 Celts had lost to the Hawks or the Cavs the main reason (IMO) would have been that they needed to learn to play together in the postseason and that lack of experience would have prevented them from being true title contenders that year.
As for this team, if they're contenders, sooner or later they'll be matched up against a good team with a tough defense that will really game plan for the Celts and make adjustments to their defense as the series progresses. The game planning and adjustments are meant to limit our ability to execute. How well we're able to maintain our execution will determine whether we're contenders.
I don't think that everyone's saying that if the Celts are playing very well and executing their motion half court offense that they're completely incapable of beating good teams. I think it's more of a case that people think they'll have quite a bit of trouble beating top teams because they'll have trouble executing when the chips are down.
I don't think that many are giving this much thought the situation, but I don't see much, if anything wrong with what you're saying.