A Possible New Rotation?

[billysan]

With the rumors swirling out there about Trading Ray Allen and parts to the Wiz for AJ and Caron Butler, I thought it might be fun to speculate on the best possible combination of starters and a rotation should this bear fruit.

My suggestion is:

Rajon Rondo
Tony Allen
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Kendrick Perkins

as our starters with a second unit of:

Marquis Daniels
Caron Butler
Antwan Jamison
Rasheed Wallace

This kinda leaves Eddie House out of the mix for big minutes, but I think he would still function well as a 3pt specialist in given situations. That is basically all he is now anyway.

The big challenge will be for the second unit to play our caliber of defense, that is the no brainer. The other side of the coin though is that they are tough, they will score and they will rebound. Wether we use Eddie or one of the starters as the 5th man, this is one very dangerous unit against the rest of the leagues second units and that is a fact.

If we also pull the trigger on the Baby for Augustin deal it will be even better. Who then is the PG or 10th player on the second unit? My bet is Eddie if he is not moved. This still leaves Williams, Walker and probably Augustin on the bench with a possibility of Ray returning in time for the playoffs.

What a great dream come true this would be.....

[wdleehi]

If this trade does happen, expect TA's minutes to drop, not become a starter.

[billysan]

If this trade does happen, expect TA's minutes to drop, not become a starter.

You are most likely right in the long term, but I think he plays a lot to start out (10-15 games at least) because he knows our system and is already comfortable playing with our starters.

[Who]

Tony Allen + Marquis Daniels + Caron Butler + Antawn Jamison + Kevin Garnett

That would be a very interesting second unit. A lot of difficult matchups for opposing teams to handle on both ends of the court.

[Who]

I don't see (m)any minutes available for Rasheed Wallace.

Regular Season

30-32 for Garnett
28 for Perkins
30 for Jamison
8-10 minutes for Sheed

Playoffs

First choice rotation

35-37 minutes for Garnett
28-32 minutes for Perk
30-33 minutes for Jamison

Then, if the Celtics end up against Dwight Howard they would need to increase Rasheed's minutes and lower Jamison's. Possibly against Cleveland and LA too but not a certainty.

[wdleehi]

I don't see (m)any minutes available for Rasheed Wallace.

Regular Season

30-32 for Garnett
28 for Perkins
30 for Jamison
8-10 minutes for Sheed

Playoffs

First choice rotation

35-37 minutes for Garnett
28-32 minutes for Perk
30-33 minutes for Jamison

Then, if the Celtics end up against Dwight Howard they would need to increase Rasheed's minutes and lower Jamison's. Possibly against Cleveland and LA too but not a certainty.

I think Wallace would continue to get the same amount of minutes.  Jamison would play Davis' minutes at PF and then about eqaul SF minutes. 

[Jon]

I'm not much for this first/second unit nonsense, particularly since it won't happen in the playoffs.  If the Washington deal went down, I'd much rather just see Butler start with Pierce, and then use Daniels and Jamison to cover all the remaining 2/3 minutes.  Why even play TA at all? 

[billysan]

I see Jamison getting a lot of KG's PF minutes (18?) and then some at SF. Hard to say, but I think Sheed and Jamison get minutes to keep KG fresh for the playoff.

Probably like this:

Perk 26
Sheed 18 at center/PF
KG 26 at PF 6+ at center
Jamison 18-22 at PF and 10 at SF
Pierce 32 at SF
Butler 30 at SG 6 at SF
Tony 18 at SG/PG
Rondo 36 at PG
Daniels 10 at PG and some at SG/SF as needed

I know these dont add up, but they are meant to be general estimates.

If we get Ray back then this all changes for the SF and guard positions.

[Jon]

I see Jamison getting a lot of KG's PF minutes (18?) and then some at SF. Hard to say, but I think Sheed and Jamison get minutes to keep KG fresh for the playoff.

Probably like this:

Perk 26
Sheed 18 at center/PF
KG 26 at PF 6+ at center
Jamison 18-22 at PF and 10 at SF
Pierce 32 at SF
Butler 30 at SG 6 at SF
Tony 18 at SG/PG
Rondo 36 at PG
Daniels 10 at PG and some at SG/SF as needed

I know these dont add up, but they are meant to be general estimates.

If we get Ray back then this all changes for the SF and guard positions.

But again, why even bother playing TA when we could probably cover all the backup minutes with Daniels and Jamison? 

[billysan]

I'm not much for this first/second unit nonsense, particularly since it won't happen in the playoffs.  If the Washington deal went down, I'd much rather just see Butler start with Pierce, and then use Daniels and Jamison to cover all the remaining 2/3 minutes.  Why even play TA at all? 

I agree in general, the point is we dont have much of a drop off when we sub. I think Tony has some value still as an athletic guard that knows our system (and players) that plays pretty reliable defense.

You are right in that he could/should end up on the short end in the playoffs just like I think Eddie House will if we still have him. The rotation will certainly shorten and whether Sheed or Jamison gets more minutes will be determined on matchups and effectiveness IMO.

[Jon]

I'm not much for this first/second unit nonsense, particularly since it won't happen in the playoffs.  If the Washington deal went down, I'd much rather just see Butler start with Pierce, and then use Daniels and Jamison to cover all the remaining 2/3 minutes.  Why even play TA at all? 

I agree in general, the point is we dont have much of a drop off when we sub. I think Tony has some value still as an athletic guard that knows our system (and players) that plays pretty reliable defense.

You are right in that he could/should end up on the short end in the playoffs just like I think Eddie House will if we still have him. The rotation will certainly shorten and whether Sheed or Jamison gets more minutes will be determined on matchups and effectiveness IMO.

The thing is, if we get Butler, the need for an athletic 2-guard dramatically shrinks.  If anything, given the fact that we lose Ray's outside shooting for Butler's iffy touch, we'd probably benefit from giving Eddie House the odd 5-10 minutes left at the guard spots. 

I'd start Rondo, Butler, and Pierce, and let Daniels and Jamison cover most of the minutes, with House getting whatever is left. 

[billysan]

I see Jamison getting a lot of KG's PF minutes (18?) and then some at SF. Hard to say, but I think Sheed and Jamison get minutes to keep KG fresh for the playoff.

Probably like this:

Perk 26
Sheed 18 at center/PF
KG 26 at PF 6+ at center
Jamison 18-22 at PF and 10 at SF
Pierce 32 at SF
Butler 30 at SG 6 at SF
Tony 18 at SG/PG
Rondo 36 at PG
Daniels 10 at PG and some at SG/SF as needed

I know these dont add up, but they are meant to be general estimates.

If we get Ray back then this all changes for the SF and guard positions.

But again, why even bother playing TA when we could probably cover all the backup minutes with Daniels and Jamison?  

To help keep everyone fresh (Paul Pierce) for the playoffs. The more TA plays then the more Butler can play SF and let Daniels and Pierce get to 100% for the playoffs. Then as I said, shorten the rotation and use all of the backup minutes for Butler and Jamison or whomever.

[billysan]

The thing is, if we get Butler, the need for an athletic 2-guard dramatically shrinks.  If anything, given the fact that we lose Ray's outside shooting for Butler's iffy touch, we'd probably benefit from giving Eddie House the odd 5-10 minutes left at the guard spots. 

I'd start Rondo, Butler, and Pierce, and let Daniels and Jamison cover most of the minutes, with House getting whatever is left. 

If we still have Eddie then he may replace some of Ray's shooting, I hadnt considered that to be a necessity because we are adding two prolific scorers. U are certainly right that the 3pt shooting threat is diminished without Ray.

[Jon]

The thing is, if we get Butler, the need for an athletic 2-guard dramatically shrinks.  If anything, given the fact that we lose Ray's outside shooting for Butler's iffy touch, we'd probably benefit from giving Eddie House the odd 5-10 minutes left at the guard spots. 

I'd start Rondo, Butler, and Pierce, and let Daniels and Jamison cover most of the minutes, with House getting whatever is left. 

If we still have Eddie then he may replace some of Ray's shooting, I hadnt considered that to be a necessity because we are adding two prolific scorers. U are certainly right that the 3pt shooting threat is diminished without Ray.

That's the only issue.  Jamison is a decent three point shooter (but no Ray).  Daniels, TA, and Butler are all poor outside shooters (along with Rondo).  If such a trade were to go down, House would be helpful now and again. 

[Who]

Why do people want to play a 33 year old Antawn Jamison as a small forward?

That is like playing Garnett as a small forward only without the defense + less of a mismatch offensively.