2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[Moranis]

I have 1 person I really want.  Probably won't get him, but do have a couple of back-ups in mind.  If they are all off the board, I will be scrambling around a bit. 

[Who]

On the last round, I thought Jerry West would get a big boost from playing in today's league. Possibly the biggest boost of any old timer coming into today's game. His skill-set is perfect for today's 3 point heavy league.

West was already a phenomenal scorer in his era. Both in terms of how prolific he was and how efficient he was. That guy got to the FT line 10-12 times a game in his peak (relative to 20-22 FGAs which is fantastic). Add the boost to his scoring efficiency that the three point line would provide and Jerry West is one of the most efficient scorers in this league.

Then add his passing ability on top of that West separates himself from scorers like Durant.

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Btw, I have West above Kobe in my rankings due to shooting ability, scoring efficiency and better ability to work with other high usage offensive talents.

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We were talking about top 5 offensive peaks -- I got to put Jerry West in that next to Bird and Jordan. Magic Johnson. And a PG who hasn't been drafted yet.

I'd have Shaq just outside that top 5 along with Kareem.

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Edit: I forgot Steph Curry. Okay, top 6. Maybe I'd bump the PG who hasn't been drafted yet. Yeah, because he needs the ball in his hands the most of the five.

Okay, that is 8 of a top 10 with a clear top 5 (offensive players in the draft).

And one team has two of those top 10 players!
Well done to team Shaq and Jerry West.

That is 3 teams that stand out to me from the rest of the pack -- Shaq & West + Walton & MJ + D-Rob and LeBron.


Edit 2: Probably have Durant too in that top 10.

[Somebody]

On the last round, I thought Jerry West would get a big boost from playing in today's league. Possibly the biggest boost of any old timer coming into today's game. His skill-set is perfect for today's 3 point heavy league.

West was already a phenomenal scorer in his era. Both in terms of how prolific he was and how efficient he was. That guy got to the FT line 10-12 times a game in his peak (relative to 20-22 FGAs which is fantastic). Add the boost to his scoring efficiency that the three point line would provide and Jerry West is one of the most efficient scorers in this league.

Then add his passing ability on top of that West separates himself from scorers like Durant.

-------------------

Btw, I have West above Kobe in my rankings due to shooting ability, scoring efficiency and better ability to work with other high usage offensive talents.

-------------------

We were talking about top 5 offensive peaks -- I got to put Jerry West in that next to Bird and Jordan. Magic Johnson. And a PG who hasn't been drafted yet.

I'd have Shaq just outside that top 5 along with Kareem.

----------------------

Edit: I forgot Steph Curry. Okay, top 6. Maybe I'd bump the PG who hasn't been drafted yet. Yeah, because he needs the ball in his hands the most of the five.

Okay, that is 8 of a top 10 with a clear top 5 (offensive players in the draft).

And one team has two of those top 10 players!
Well done to team Shaq and Jerry West.

That is 3 teams that stand out to me from the rest of the pack -- Shaq & West + Walton & MJ + D-Rob and LeBron.


Edit 2: Probably have Durant too in that top 10.

West was the gold standard of the 60s when it came to scoring, his volume and efficiency was unmatched for his era. I'd put Shaq ahead of his offensive peak though, he had a peak bettering Kareem's offensive peak (who btw was platinum in the 70s compared to West's gold). Imo Durant doesn't have the passing to warrant a top 10 offensive peak, but I'm not sure about the contenders for top 10.

[Somebody]

2 hours left before the draft? or is it 3?

[nickagneta]

2 hours left before the draft? or is it 3?

2 plus?!?!?!

I open it at 12:30. I also have gouki's picks at 3 and 4 so the top 4 picks could go very fast.

[Somebody]

2 hours left before the draft? or is it 3?

2 plus?!?!?!

I open it at 12:30. I also have gouki's picks at 3 and 4 so the top 4 picks could go very fast.

it's 10:13 PM here rn and I think I'm exactly 12 hours ahead of you, so I thought it was 2 hours away.

[Moranis]

On the last round, I thought Jerry West would get a big boost from playing in today's league. Possibly the biggest boost of any old timer coming into today's game. His skill-set is perfect for today's 3 point heavy league.

West was already a phenomenal scorer in his era. Both in terms of how prolific he was and how efficient he was. That guy got to the FT line 10-12 times a game in his peak (relative to 20-22 FGAs which is fantastic). Add the boost to his scoring efficiency that the three point line would provide and Jerry West is one of the most efficient scorers in this league.

Then add his passing ability on top of that West separates himself from scorers like Durant.

-------------------

Btw, I have West above Kobe in my rankings due to shooting ability, scoring efficiency and better ability to work with other high usage offensive talents.

-------------------

We were talking about top 5 offensive peaks -- I got to put Jerry West in that next to Bird and Jordan. Magic Johnson. And a PG who hasn't been drafted yet.

I'd have Shaq just outside that top 5 along with Kareem.

----------------------

Edit: I forgot Steph Curry. Okay, top 6. Maybe I'd bump the PG who hasn't been drafted yet. Yeah, because he needs the ball in his hands the most of the five.

Okay, that is 8 of a top 10 with a clear top 5 (offensive players in the draft).

And one team has two of those top 10 players!
Well done to team Shaq and Jerry West.

That is 3 teams that stand out to me from the rest of the pack -- Shaq & West + Walton & MJ + D-Rob and LeBron.


Edit 2: Probably have Durant too in that top 10.

I prefer Oscar to West.  Much better passer (and rebounder), got to the line at the insane rate of West and was actually a better foul shooter.  Oscar had more seasons in the top 5 and the top 10 in FG% as well.  And Oscar played more minutes per game so the crappy back-up was out there less. 

I really don't get the notion that Oscar wouldn't have been every bit the outside shooter that West was.  Oscar was better than West at virtually everything on the offensive end of the floor.  He would have been at least as good, if not better, from the 3 point line as well.  Oscar is the one truly great player that never really gets the recognition and love that he deserves.  Oscar was a straight up monster.

Edit: West was a better defender, but I don't think he was a good enough defender to make up for the difference in Oscar's more efficient scoring and significantly better passing and rebounding.

[RPGenerate]

This round will be really interesting, as I think more people will start picking base on fit, rather than bpa. I bet we'll see many supposed reaches because of this.

[Who]

On the last round, I thought Jerry West would get a big boost from playing in today's league. Possibly the biggest boost of any old timer coming into today's game. His skill-set is perfect for today's 3 point heavy league.

West was already a phenomenal scorer in his era. Both in terms of how prolific he was and how efficient he was. That guy got to the FT line 10-12 times a game in his peak (relative to 20-22 FGAs which is fantastic). Add the boost to his scoring efficiency that the three point line would provide and Jerry West is one of the most efficient scorers in this league.

Then add his passing ability on top of that West separates himself from scorers like Durant.

-------------------

Btw, I have West above Kobe in my rankings due to shooting ability, scoring efficiency and better ability to work with other high usage offensive talents.

-------------------

We were talking about top 5 offensive peaks -- I got to put Jerry West in that next to Bird and Jordan. Magic Johnson. And a PG who hasn't been drafted yet.

I'd have Shaq just outside that top 5 along with Kareem.

----------------------

Edit: I forgot Steph Curry. Okay, top 6. Maybe I'd bump the PG who hasn't been drafted yet. Yeah, because he needs the ball in his hands the most of the five.

Okay, that is 8 of a top 10 with a clear top 5 (offensive players in the draft).

And one team has two of those top 10 players!
Well done to team Shaq and Jerry West.

That is 3 teams that stand out to me from the rest of the pack -- Shaq & West + Walton & MJ + D-Rob and LeBron.


Edit 2: Probably have Durant too in that top 10.

I prefer Oscar to West.  Much better passer (and rebounder), got to the line at the insane rate of West and was actually a better foul shooter.  Oscar had more seasons in the top 5 and the top 10 in FG% as well.  And Oscar played more minutes per game so the crappy back-up was out there less. 

I really don't get the notion that Oscar wouldn't have been every bit the outside shooter that West was.  Oscar was better than West at virtually everything on the offensive end of the floor.  He would have been at least as good, if not better, from the 3 point line as well.  Oscar is the one truly great player that never really gets the recognition and love that he deserves.  Oscar was a straight up monster.

I compare Oscar more to LeBron. More skilled but less athletic.

An orchestrator of an offense. Controlling everything around them.

I see Jerry West more as an assassin. Playing on and off the ball. Springing into life at a moment's notice to deliver a blow.


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As far as shooting goes, I just see Jerry taking and making more outside shots in old games of his than I do in Oscar's (although there is a lot less film of Oscar). More 18-22 footers. I see Oscar avoiding them and trying to get closer for the higher percentage mid-range shot at 14-17 feet.

So when picturing the two in today's league, I have an easy time seeing Jerry West taking and making three pointers at a clip. While I see Oscar taking 3s at a lower clip but making a them at a good clip because of how skilled a shooter he was. That is why I would give Jerry more of a boost in terms of efficiency when changing to today's league.

[Somebody]

On the last round, I thought Jerry West would get a big boost from playing in today's league. Possibly the biggest boost of any old timer coming into today's game. His skill-set is perfect for today's 3 point heavy league.

West was already a phenomenal scorer in his era. Both in terms of how prolific he was and how efficient he was. That guy got to the FT line 10-12 times a game in his peak (relative to 20-22 FGAs which is fantastic). Add the boost to his scoring efficiency that the three point line would provide and Jerry West is one of the most efficient scorers in this league.

Then add his passing ability on top of that West separates himself from scorers like Durant.

-------------------

Btw, I have West above Kobe in my rankings due to shooting ability, scoring efficiency and better ability to work with other high usage offensive talents.

-------------------

We were talking about top 5 offensive peaks -- I got to put Jerry West in that next to Bird and Jordan. Magic Johnson. And a PG who hasn't been drafted yet.

I'd have Shaq just outside that top 5 along with Kareem.

----------------------

Edit: I forgot Steph Curry. Okay, top 6. Maybe I'd bump the PG who hasn't been drafted yet. Yeah, because he needs the ball in his hands the most of the five.

Okay, that is 8 of a top 10 with a clear top 5 (offensive players in the draft).

And one team has two of those top 10 players!
Well done to team Shaq and Jerry West.

That is 3 teams that stand out to me from the rest of the pack -- Shaq & West + Walton & MJ + D-Rob and LeBron.


Edit 2: Probably have Durant too in that top 10.

I prefer Oscar to West.  Much better passer (and rebounder), got to the line at the insane rate of West and was actually a better foul shooter.  Oscar had more seasons in the top 5 and the top 10 in FG% as well.  And Oscar played more minutes per game so the crappy back-up was out there less. 

I really don't get the notion that Oscar wouldn't have been every bit the outside shooter that West was.  Oscar was better than West at virtually everything on the offensive end of the floor.  He would have been at least as good, if not better, from the 3 point line as well.  Oscar is the one truly great player that never really gets the recognition and love that he deserves.  Oscar was a straight up monster.

I compare Oscar more to LeBron. More skilled but less athletic.

An orchestrator of an offense. Controlling everything around them.

I see Jerry West more as an assassin. Playing on and off the ball. Springing into life at a moment's notice to deliver a blow.


----------------------------


As far as shooting goes, I just see Jerry taking and making more outside shots in old games of his than I do in Oscar's. More 18-22 footers. I see Oscar avoiding them and trying to get closer for the higher percentage mid-range shot at 14-17 feet.

So when picturing the two in today's league, I have an easy time seeing Jerry West taking and making three pointers at a clip. While I see Oscar taking 3s at a lower clip but making a them at a good clip because of how skilled a shooter he was. That is why I would give Jerry more of a boost in terms of efficiency when changing to today's league.

To me Oscar is limited by his conservatism and ball dominance in this exercise-he rarely made high leverage passes that took guts to attempt, instead opting for a more conservative approach where he'd make the obvious and easy pass. This isn't necessarily bad-it reduces the amount of errors made, but it's what separates a great passer from an all time passer imo. Obviously West isn't even in the great category, but I've noticed that people constantly talk about Oscar like he zips passes around ala LeBron or Magic, which isn't true. Oscar also has problems in scaling back his offense to fit on a stacked team-his scoring volume and efficiency both dropped when he played on that legendary Bucks squad, even when Kareem was there to make life easier for his teammates. West managed to maintain his offense on his stacked Laker teams, which I rate highly in this exercise since most teams will be flush with offensive talent. Final point is defense, Oscar was at best a slight positive defensively (with an argument that he might even be a slight negative or neutral) while West was quite a disruptive defender. In this game where teams are likely to be stacked I'd prefer West's skillset, especially when their peaks were close enough.

[nickagneta]

This round will be really interesting, as I think more people will start picking base on fit, rather than bpa. I bet we'll see many supposed reaches because of this.

I think the reaches will be mostly people picking more modern stars and skipping over some of the best ever simply because they played a long time ago(40 years plus).

I mean, I get it. The numbers can be both ridiculously good and ridiculously bad, depending on the stat, by choosing a legend from the 50's to early 70's. Wilt ridiculously good scoring. Russell ridiculously good rebounding. But the shooting percentage numbers don't translate very well at all unless you were a center. So it's more difficult to try to get people to think they could play in the modern era with modern era rules, so you choose a more modern well known player that may not be the better all-time player.

I look at it this way. I imagine all the players would be brought up in this modern era and all had the same advantages of modern training, dieting, supplements, with financial freedom once they were pros and played under the same modern rules. Looking at it from that perspective, and trying to see how the player matched up with his contemporaries, I feel, gives you a better idea of just how good that player really was and why they might be the better overall choice to make.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

So, if you all don't mind, when does the draft open? I just don't want to miss it as something is happening at the house right now.

 

[nickagneta]

So, if you all don't mind, when does the draft open? I just don't want to miss it as something is happening at the house right now.

 

If that the case let's just open it early so you can announce your own pick.

ROUND 3 NOW OPEN

[Yoki_IsTheName]

After some wheeling and dealing, we are happy to say that the Detroit Pistons are getting their man.

10x All-Star
11x All NBA Teams
5x All NBA Defensive Teams
9x Assist leader for the season
2x Steals leader for the season
All time leader in Assists
All time leader in Steals

One of, if not the most underrated and overlooked superstar this game as ever seen.

For the first pick, int the third round of the 2019 Historical Draft, the MoTown Pistons are ECSTATIC to select John Stockton.

[Celtic Fan Forever]

After some wheeling and dealing, we are happy to say that the Detroit Pistons are getting their man.

10x All-Star
11x All NBA Teams
5x All NBA Defensive Teams
9x Assist leader for the season
2x Steals leader for the season
All time leader in Assists
All time leader in Steals

One of, if not the most underrated and overlooked superstar this game as ever seen.

For the first pick, int the third round of the 2019 Historical Draft, the MoTown Pistons are ECSTATIC to select John Stockton.

Nice pick, you've built yourself one heck of a backcourt. Interested to see how you fill this team out with bigs